Taking a long break

I’m sure everyone has been watching all the Asian women in the news. First, there was the sexual harassment case where an apparent Silicon Valley White rice chaser was targeting Asian women. His business partner was an Asian male. Then there was the irate African American doctor who murdered an Asian American female doctor in the Bronx. Then there was the case of Yingying Zhang, the Chinese national who was kidnapped by some White dude with a fascination with kidnapping.

In the past, I would say something. But these days, I wonder if it makes a difference. In the case of the SV rice chaser, most of what I’ve said about protecting proactively against this sort of thing is stuff that I’ve already said many times (e.g. this). I have very little in terms of short-term solutions. The Black dude shooting the doctors is likely a fluke, although man, what a sad and horrific crime against someone with such a promising life. The White dude kidnapping the Chinese national may or may not be race-based, but I also hope the Chinese government gets proactive about sending a strong message to its citizens: Americans can be violent, violent people, and you can’t trust strangers in this country, especially if you’re an Asian female.

For the past year or so, since Trump’s election and even before Trump’s election (notably when Sanders and Clinton were getting into the action), I’ve felt like it doesn’t matter what anyone says. On the liberal side, we saw Shrieking Girl at Yale, the rich Black kid who faked a hate crime at Mizzou, a BLM movement that stated entirely on a lie (“Hands up, don’t shoot”), and a bunch of crazies shouting at Evergreen State. We’ve got a media that has been battered (rightfully in some cases) by accusations of bias. The “liberals,” who supposedly support tolerance and justice, continue to support these liars and crybullies. On the conservative side, we’ve got an orangutan in the White House, the orangutan’s enablers in the Senate, and a bunch of hypocritical Bible Thumpers who continue to elect these jackasses no matter what crimes they commit. Whatever happened to the conservatives of the 80’s who prided themselves on their moral superiority? Don’t even get me started on the craziness from other Asian Americans these days. Oshay Duke Jackson likes to say that the buffoonery is at an all-time high for African Americans, but the word “buffoonery” doesn’t even begin to describe the senseless nonsense that is coming out of Asian America these days. I’m afraid that some of us just can’t be helped.

I’m taking a long vacation from blogging. I’ve done this before, but I have a feeling this one will be longer than the other times. Right now, I’m just feeling that this blog is powerless. The blogosphere has been overrun by the extremes–both liberal and conservative–and they are making no sense. Maybe blogs in general these days are powerless. Common sense has taken a long, long vacation. Therefore maybe I should do the same. I’ll be checking out from here for awhile, but I won’t be checking out from life, so if anyone wants to talk offline, feel free to let me know.

73 thoughts on “Taking a long break

  1. Yes this blog is dead. It’s dying like the Fighting 44s. I have a solution. Why not let me take over for awhile? I’ll tell the truth about the loving WM/AF. And crime in the black community. You’ve been at it for a long time. Go ahead and give me a chance!

  2. Yellow fever in SV? Water is wet, at least to most people. It seems like the topic of yellow fever has been suppressed in Asian female circles because it’s viewed as an attack on their white partners, which goes to the point of personal preferences affecting one’s views and activism. Calling out yellow fever reduces harassment, but it also hurts people’s feelings. What a dilemma.

    Medicine is pretty stressful. I guess failing in the field pushes you over the edge, some go postal while others suicidal like Robert Chu https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/06/17/tragic-case-of-robert-chu-shows-plight-of-canadian-medical-school-grads.html

    The kidnapper targeted someone’s white female friend http://imgur.com/a/f9O5x. The scumbag may have been going for anyone but I’m sure he felt like he had a higher chance of success with an Asian target, especially a naive foreign student. I agree China needs to warn their students about a lot of things before coming over. You can’t have a year go by without a Chinese student being killed at USC.

    I remember one poster from Africa talking about how they had a great forum that slowly got taken over by extreme posters. Feels like that has happened to most of the internet by now.

  3. Byron,

    Your blog and perspective is considered one of the last remaining non-leftist viewpoints of AAPI identity politics. To lose you would mean not just one less older AAPI male community advocate, but an important counterpoint to the far left, “progressive” and anti-Asian male, upper crust, ivory tower, negative service to the AAPI community sort of activists of Asian descent. May I remind you that kicking the proverbial can down the road, means someone else or their descendants
    (think of the children!) have to assume this arduous task. Instead of capitulating, let’s brainstorm visibly actionable acts of activism. Also, have you considered the Asian subreddits and/or one their real time chat rooms? Email me if interested.

  4. Enjoy your summer! I’ve been taking a break of sorts as well to focus on some personal projects…

    I’ve got to say I’m not “surprised” at the least bit about the NYC doctor shooting of Dr. Tam and the LACK of “condemnation” from Jenn Fang and James Lamb-Fang and Erin Chew. Instead, their twitter is about anti-Jackie Chan angst about playing another Asian ethnicity.

    Apparently to the SJWs, identity politics is only against toxic masculiginity Asians.

  5. Thanks for the support, guys. I’d say that right now I really do feel like I’m in the lowest mood ever with respect to blogging–and that’s no exaggeration. In all other areas of my life, whether we’re talking relationships, work, or parenting, there are consequences. Good things happen when I do good things, bad things happen when I screw up. But blogging seems to have a reverse thing going–say something useful, and the SJW’s will go batshit crazy and attack you personally. Say something stupid, and the SJW’s will jump on your side-which doesn’t help, since everyone knows it’s stupid. The country has gone crazy. The conservative extreme is running the country into the ground, while the liberal extreme is doing whatever it can to destroy the country’s educational foundation. From our perspective, it’s the Far Left that is running everything. They won the cultural war. The question is whether we as Asian Americans can recover. Right now, we’re still losing.

    Emotional terrorism has run rampant. It’s not just the Asian American feminists anymore. Now, anyone with a claim to oppression is getting into the action. It’s really a toxic environment. I used to identify with a lot of these people. I used to feel sorry for them. Now I realize that whatever hurt they’re feeling has won. It’s come to define them. And in the current environment, they are encouraged to allow their emotions to rule them. Logic be damned.

    Anyway, I’m definitely taking some time off. Kobrah Kai, thanks for the invite; I’ll contact you before I get back in, maybe at the end of the summer or at the beginning of next year. Maybe later. Aardvark, same. I have a feeling that if we’re all still in at that time, we should do some sort of relaunch. Despite all the attacks from the Far Left (and it’s really been the Far Left more than the Far Right who have been the most active in the last year), I still think that our brand of common sense is most attractive to the majority of Asian Americans in this country.

    Take care y’all.

  6. say something useful, and the SJW’s will go batshit crazy and attack you personally.
    – bigwowo
    This University of Toronto Humanities prof figured out of way of giving the SJW crazies the middle finger and profit from their craziness at the same time.
    https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/07/04/controversial-u-of-t-professor-making-nearly-50000-a-month-through-crowdfunding.html?source=newsletter&_ctids=2444%7cQverpg%2fSebz+Rznvy%7c261%7c1589%7c1508&_ctdigest=Lj0c35hsfHaPnIcTCzTxbA

    Apparently to the SJWs, identity politics is only against toxic masculiginity Asians.
    – aardvark
    I very much believe that Jenn and other Asian “feminists” are going to cut down on their bullsh!t. Nowadays, there are many more Asian (and Hapa) sisters ready to call them out on their hypocrisy.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/asiantwoX/comments/6hdr1h/asian_feminism/diy4a7l/?context=3
    The analysis is spot on and since chillimillie is a hapa female, she can’t be easily dismissed. I think Asian Feminists (the JLC_2.0 ones anyways) are going to be on the run.

  7. You definitely need a break. The nature will take its course eventually. Or maybe it’s happening now.

    I know I have a different perspective on many of the AA views. Even within AA community, there are many different voices in terms of race-based, community-based issues, nationality-based issues. So when it comes to talking about Asian Americans, it can be as broad as Mongolian Empire or as high as Mt Everest.

    Since it’s been a while, I might drop a line or two.

    First, I’m a strong believer in Evolution. Not a typical mere “Yes, we descends from monkeys” enlightenment. The evolution of existence or I’d say “Gradual, subtle modification or existential material”. I don’t believe in God, but I believe the very idea that God exists has helped along the human evolution process and morality development.

    You may have a different perspective on life, or an idea of existence. I have mine. I don’t try to convince you the way I think, but I genuinely hope this will make some idea spreading along the way.

    Asian American Cause
    What are we really trying to fight? The fight against the suppression of the majority when it suits your entire community? But infighting is common when one claims his own nationality. There’s no perfect world. I just want to throw a light on this kind of community behavior because it is very very common in every nation. The entire Asian American community experience is no different from Indian experience in Singapore.

    The very idea that minority will gather for the community cause, and yet they will fight intra when it comes to their own cause is the fundamental behaviors among animals. What sticks them together can be categorized as per requirement for the interest: National Interest, Community Interest, personal interest, so on and so forth.

    European American Cause
    There’s no cause, isn’t it?

    Well, for Europeans, their cause is different than AA basal cause since they are already majority in the country. The cause is personal interest rather than community interest since they are in the majority.

    While Native Americans and (occasionally Blacks) are uprooting the nature of Columbus celebration, Spanish and Italians are fighting over Columbus birthplace, crediting their national pride who’s discovered the new world. English and Germans taking credit for who’s making more contribution to the US technological prowess.

    Every recent European immigrant trash-talks about America. You name it: English, German, Swedish, French, Romanian, Italian. Those nationalities I came across in my work environment and deal with them almost every day. Guess what? They all take up US green cards, and plan to apply US citizenship anytime soon.

    The morale of the story is, animal instinct fights for their own space, and what sticks them together is what interest set them off in the first place. Here in the US, becoming a part of the White majority masks their true intention and facilitates their assimilation. So they don’t have similar cause as AA cause in the first place. What they do have is their own national pride brought from their home country and behaving accordingly based on the pre-existing racial hierarchy in the US.

    Chinese Vs Whites
    We can take a comparison between a diaspora and setting the majority in foreign lands. European diaspora in the US, Australia, and New Zealand make up the majority and set the tone of the respective countries. The same goes for Singapore as well. Chinese diaspora in Singapore (that’s why it was kicked out from Malaysia in the first place), make up the majority and set the tone of the country. Almost every Chinese immigrant in Singapore assimilates fast and become racist against minority, including South East Asians. They have all kinds of stereotype set upon different minorities. Pigeonholing is not White traits. It’s universal trait. The question is “Can you afford to pigeonhole other people and live your life?” This racist behavior is affordable when you are a part of the majority. The same goes for European immigrants in White majority country as well.

    The bottom line is, this kind of community-based behavior is not unique only to the US, it’s more common than we thought it is. The idealistic world would be understanding towards each other. But how far, and how much more of the understanding is necessary?

    Being in a majority affords you to be against minority. That’s simple it is.

    You can fight all you want until your last breath. At the end of the day, it’s the strategy you’re using in the first place. In Chess term, it’s called “Gambit”. You know how your first move is as important as half of the game.

    As Deng Xiaopeng said “Majority rules”.

    Personal Observation: So when I saw Mars One Project, and there are remaining 100 volunteers for one-way ticket, I think I remember I only saw ONE Asian guy and a few Asian females. Go figure.

    Asian women, Asian women, Asian women, what for?
    Evolution and Sex

    In evolution, having sex is not only specific to males. It also applies to females. Both gender enjoy sex and females take a full responsibility of gestation, which can last for 9-10 months in humans and 2 years in elephants. Males, on the other hand, can go on spreading his sperms which diminish his productivity because nurturing a newborn infant is as essential as maintaining your existence (Your DNA existence in a form of minor modifications). You can copulate with hundreds of women, but if your progeny are dead, you’re as good as a dildo.

    Continual existence of Asian genes (a set of genes that corresponds to Asian features), in this case, does not rely on Asian males at all. Females also contribute significant evolution of Asian genes as well.

    You might think as a male, males are drivers of entire genes evolution. I chuckle.

    If certain genes are essential for one’s survival; if you inherit those genes in your X chromosome, and unfortunately they are mutated, you’re bound to have sex-linked disease. This is as good as nature can give you while your biological siblings can carry and live on. The idea is not to favor which sex is more important in selecting their progeny. Both genders are responsible for their own continuation.

    White guys and Asian women
    The progeny of White guys and Asian women are like pollens breezing in a wind. This interracial combination makes up the worst of both worlds. Most of their sons turning gay and most of their daughters turning pornstars, you wonder if the bottom of the barrel White genes and Asian genes are literally being wiped off from the entire gene pool. In fact they are doing a good job at eliminating themselves.

    Asian men have spoken up, and labeled as jealous, nerdy, insecure, patriarchal whatever suits Asian women hatred.
    Now their sons have risen up and speaking up.

    I don’t want to detail. If you’re into more, go to Reddit/r/hapas or
    longingfordeath.wordpress

    I’ll stop by now. Tired from working.

    Bottom line is
    Rocks don’t speak on Mars. Only living species speak and make rules.

  8. True that. But I think too many people are immune to criticism these days. Remember, it’s all about the emotion. Doesn’t matter how valid the critique is. They still find a way to dismiss.

    Hey, I just posted this on FB. Might as well share it here.

    http://variety.com/2017/tv/columns/hawaii-five-0-daniel-dae-kim-grace-park-cbs-parity-1202488093/

    I might as well get in on this controversy. I agree with Daniel and Grace. Daniel’s character is the major link to actual Hawaii, where the show is filmed. Grace is the sole female main character. Yes, Al is the main-est of the main characters (due to the Caucasian-focused narrative of the original show, as mentioned in the article), but it’s hard to argue that he carries the show by himself. Scott is the funniest character, but he’s hardly ever on the show these days because of the extra vacation time he negotiated.

    These four are the main characters. Everyone else on the show (the big dude from Chicago, the big eccentric dude from Lost, the medical examiners, the love interests, etc) is expendable. I think CBS messed up.

  9. @mmjames,

    While I think it’s great there are more AF and hapa AF voices calling out the racist SJW BS, I think it only leads to more intra-fighting and wasting our own energy and resources instead of fighting the good fight against the overall racist system. Some of these SJWs are paid shills to promulgate the regressive left racism, but overall it detracts from Asian American issues.

    Also, that Eurasian tiger is very suspicious as a “hapa” lol

  10. I should have html styled my long-winded comment.

    You’ve done your part, Byron. Take a break, live your life.

    Now the baton is passed down to hapa males who look 200% Asian men and they are calling out the worst of the worst couples, WMAF whom, by the way, are their parents. Nature has taken its course.

    I don’t cherish this bashing and trashtalking Asian Women. Any deviation from the norms will be corrected sooner or later. Some might take more than a lifetime.

    Regarding racism, since I had experience from living in South East Asian countries (Thailand, Vietnam, Myanmar, Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia), I don’t throw a fit when white racists spewing out anything atrocious against AA here in the US. Racism is everywhere. It’s the majority that can afford racism and lives with it.

    I also had close interaction with Korean guys over the year; Korean guys from Korea, or American born Korean guys in America. Their agenda is the same, from community-based interest. Don’t trash talk about Korea. But within their community, they’re shitting each other. The same goes for Chinese and ABC as well.

    If your generation is long enough in the US, your interest changes overtime for sure. Most Chinese immigrants don’t bother with racism and AA cause because that’s not their priority to come over here. Granted, some woke Chinese immigrants will pro-actively participate in US politics. There always will be an overlapping domain where immigrants and recent ABC (1st generation) can agree upon. Spectrum becomes large enough to see different idea and political views.

    Anyway, I think I’m living my life. There’s no common cause to fight for. There’s only common interest.

    For those fighting and recognition for minority voice to takes place, it can only happen when your minority population reaches a certain noticeable percentage. Otherwise, we will see Laotian Americans will take a hold in American politics. Until then Laotian Americans will piggyback on Chinese Americans to reach their goals. The cycle continues with all other minorities in every nation.

  11. Bint is a boring typical HBR racist spouting pseudo-science “evolutionary psychology” where there’s no DATA to support any of his claims. I’m not surprised if it’s a white guy disguised as Singaporean to promote racist ideology of the USofA.

  12. @ aardvark

    I noticed, too. I knew something was off as soon as he started babbling about Singapore as some racist dystopia. Anybody who’s actually lived there would understand that it’s one of the least racist societies you could ask for, unlike its neighbors, Hong Kong or Malaysia, which have way more racial tension.

  13. Byron,

    Have a good time in your vacation. You may find something more meaningful to do besides blogging.

  14. @ Bobby

    Obvious racism and homophobia aside, I’d say this break is unshocking. Over the years, the blog’s ethos has pretty much devolved into “Okay, Asian Americans experience racism but let’s not do anything about it.” Where Snoopy’s brand of activism can be summed up as extremist overreaction, bigWOWO takes the opposite extreme of underreacting: apathy.

    I don’t see any good coming out of either strategy.

  15. Where’s the outrage from the Fangs on reappropriate and other SJWs on Twitter and Reddit about the recent shootings of Asians?

    No word whatsoever from the CAAAV/OCA/JACL/AAJA/AALDEF/et al on the shootings of Asian males.

    But when it’s a clear case of accidental discharge, but criminal negligence it’s constantly uproars of “Asians anti-Black racists” hashtagtivism to score points with the white and black SJW establishment.

  16. Most people spoke against Zimmerman all the way to Peter Liang were to prevent police brutality to become as bad as it is today, a virus that is continuing to trend. Nowadays, cops are getting away with murders.

    Had we all got together united and protested against Zimmerman all the way to Peter Liang, more laws would had been in place to enforce further damage. That would’d prevented further victims caused by a disease that has spread and infected to Asian victims today, and even to White victims like the case in Minnesota with the Australian Yoga instructor Justine Damond that got shot for no reasons.

    We waited until tragedy hits home to Asian victims and we protest, then it’s a little to late. It’s getting out of hand, the virus is going to strike everybody.

  17. @ NeutralCentral

    Police brutality has been striking everybody for as long as people today have been alive. Blacks are more likely to be affected by police brutality than Whites and SJWs point to that as discrimination against Blacks. The thing is, though, Whites are more likely to be affected by police brutality than Asians but nobody points to that as discrimination against Whites.

    You know something fishy is going on when the same arguments that SJWs use to prove Blacks are oppressed by Whites would likewise prove Whites are oppressed by Asians.

  18. No word whatsoever from the CAAAV/OCA/JACL/AAJA/AALDEF/et al on the shootings of Asian males.

    Kiwi, well there you go, you answered that question for the SJW. The SJW have no word because according to you, “Police brutality has been striking everybody for as long as people today have been alive”. Even you don’t care about Asian male victims, so why should the SJW care, the corrupt police will continue to do what you as citizens allow them to do.

    What do you guys expect the SJW to say? “Oh you Asian guys don’t care about Asian male victims and accept the consequences as they strike, but you expect the SJW should care about Asian male victims when you don’t?

    You guys are Asian males and you don’t even care and don’t question the Police’s motives, that’s why the SJW only care about Black victims.

    Also, you showed your racial bias when you measured which race gets shot more by the popo, by that you would have a different tune if most of the victims were Asians. If that’s the case, your answer is inconsistent, should rejected as an invalid answer because that would be a tribal answer rather than a common sense or wrong/right answer.

    If you’re about Tribal then why would you object when the SJW do the same thing with tribal attitudes in favor of Black vics.

    I’m not a SJW by the way. I’m just explaining why things are the way they are.

    Zimmerman all the way to Peter Liang

    Including the Philando Castile case.

    The reason I mentioned this was because during this phase, the favorable momentum was swinging toward the victims side due to heavy pressure from the media and from the public. During this stretch was the biggest chance to implement some changes with additional laws in place, especially after drawing the weapon from the Holster the cop should at least give 3 warnings before firing, and the warnings should go onto record on camera for proof. In addition, automatic jailtime if the cop’s body cam is not turned on, no excuses.

  19. Police brutality is definitely a problem in USofA given the DOD1033 program and the para-militarization of the popo as a fascist police state.

    HOWEVER, the racist SJWs were all too giddy when Philando Castile’s shooting when his girlfriend initially thought the cop was Chinese and the Fangs, LLAG, Cathy Dang, Erin Chew and other Asian SJWs were all happy to scream “toxic AM misogilinity” like it’s Gurley/Liang 2.0 or something.

    That’s the racist selling out Asians down the river which people here are calling you SJW racists out for!

  20. I had no clue about the Chinese misidentification in Philando’s case, whether on purpose or as a joke they should had waited until all the facts were reported before jumping the gun. I’m not part of their crew, that’s why I didn’t know this.

    I don’t even know who LLAG nor Erin Chew are.

    Ok, aside from that mishap, the SJW advocated to abolish the police state is a good thing, although BLM went too far extreme with their antics. If Kiwi or some of you guys are on the other side of the fence and favor police state, my question is “Why ? “

  21. @ NeutralCentral

    Nice. Way to shift the goalposts. Your first post only focused on Black victims of police brutality as if that was totally unbiased but when you were shown that Whites are also more likely to be affected by police brutality, you call that tribalism. Hypocrite much?

    SJWs do not care about Asians for the same reason Israel supporters do not care about Armenians or other genocide victims. I’ve met Asian SJWs who scream “police state” when a Black person is killed by police but merely shrug when an Asian is killed by police, citing “historical differences”. In the same vein, most people are surprised to learn that half the victims of the Holocaust were not Jewish. The fact is that what people learn through the media and education is what makes all the difference and which groups wield more influence in those fields creates biases. Until as recently as the Civil Rights era, almost every minority in America was ether Black or Jewish. So when their activists are heard above others such as Asians, it’s not because Asians “don’t care”. It’s because Asians don’t have as much power to push their own causes. What little power Asians do accrue just gets used by Blacks and others to advance their own agendas, like you are trying to do.

  22. Nice. Way to shift the goalposts. Your first post only focused on Black victims of police brutality as if that was totally unbiased but when you were shown that Whites are also more likely to be affected by police brutality, you call that tribalism. Hypocrite much?

    “only focused on Black victims ” ??

    You definitely misunderstood my first post and misinterpreted it.

    From my 1st post I wrote:

    “That would’d prevented further victims caused by a disease that has spread and infected to Asian victims today, and even to White victims like the case in Minnesota with the Australian Yoga instructor Justine Damond that got shot for no reasons.

    We waited until tragedy hits home to Asian victims and we protest, then it’s a little to late. It’s getting out of hand, the virus is going to strike everybody.”

    What part of that only about Blacks? I was talking about about a disease, a virus (popo brutality) that can potentially affect everyone. (including Asians and Whites)

    SJWs do not care about Asians for the same reason Israel supporters do not care about Armenians or other genocide victims. I’ve met Asian SJWs who scream “police state” when a Black person is killed by police but merely shrug when an Asian is killed by police, citing “historical differences”. In the same vein, most people are surprised to learn that half the victims of the Holocaust were not Jewish. The fact is that what people learn through the media and education is what makes all the difference and which groups wield more influence in those fields creates biases. Until as recently as the Civil Rights era, almost every minority in America was ether Black or Jewish. So when their activists are heard above others such as Asians, it’s not because Asians “don’t care”. It’s because Asians don’t have as much power to push their own causes. What little power Asians do accrue just gets used by Blacks and others to advance their own agendas, like you are trying to do.

    This is true. However, I wasn’t talking about afirmative action, media representation, nor anything else. I was talking strictly about “police state brutality”. Whatever the SJW reasons are (tribalism, selfishness), my original point about “police state brutality” still stands. I don’t care what the SJW reasons are, as long as they can abolish police state, it benefits all races not just Blacks.

    Like I said, I’m not a SJW and not part of their crew, and I’m not interested in defending their sins. My point was only about “police state brutality”. Whether the SJW care about Asians or not is irrelevant, common sense and right/wrong should tell everyone that “police state brutality” should have no business being in the modern societies.

    it’s not because Asians “don’t care”. It’s because Asians don’t have as much power to push their own causes.

    If that’s the case then don’t go against the SJW when they do something that makes sense, common sense should tell us that police state has no business being in any 1st-world societies. I understand about terrorism and all that requiring for strong national security, but it shouldn’t go from one extreme to another extreme. Keep things at the moderate level, isn’t moderatism what this blog is about?

    DOD1033 programs, para-militarization, Police state brutality are extremities and should have no business being in any modern society, none of us wants to live in a police state like North Korea, so don’t let it get too extreme.

  23. @ NeutralCentral

    Thank you for clarifying your position. It appears we were talking past each other.

    I think the vast majority of Americans do agree that police brutality is a problem and police reform is necessary. However, I think what generates so much controversy is when the issue is muddied with racial identity politics, which instead of uniting people, divides them. You have no idea how many times I’ve seen Blacks insist that police brutality is a uniquely Black problem and that Asians and other races should take a seat while simultaneously demanding that Asians support them. It’s the hypocrisy and tribalism that turns so many people off and that issue does need to be addressed in its own right.

    I think there can be serious political repercussions by aligning yourself with the wrong people, even when they are right. Unlike you, I don’t believe in forming coalitions with groups who ultimately do not care about our interests.

  24. Thank you for clarifying your position. It appears we were talking past each other.

    I think the vast majority of Americans do agree that police brutality is a problem and police reform is necessary.

    Thanks, and agreed.

    “I don’t believe in forming coalitions with groups who ultimately do not care about our interests.

    That’s fine, if that’s what you believe in.

    I’m not sure why you denied it in your last post, but that’s still tribalism. You think and concern about your own group only, which is fine since I’m Asian myself and I appreciate it. For me, I think about the big picture. I want what’s best for EVERYONE, not just Asians.

    For me, I question the beneficiary of the SJW’s activism. Is losen up the police state grip benefits only Blacks, or it benefits all people including Asians. If it benefits only Blacks then of course I would not stand behind it, but if it benefits everyone including Asians then that is a good enough reason for me to stand behind it. That’s my rational.

    The rational should always be about the big picture, and not get bottled up, nitpicked over little petty issues that setup roadblocks to prevent progressions of the bigger issues. Police state is a national issue, so I wouldn’t let smaller issue like tribal race gets into the way.

  25. Police brutality concerns everybody and need to be called out by everybody who believe in democratic civil society.

    However, SJWs do NOT have a monopoly on these social problems nor are they the final arbiters on what’s social justice. In face, the SJW regressive left are far from democratic system of freedom of speech and assembly; they’re merely the opposite side of the same fascist coin of alt-right wingnuts.

  26. @ NeutralCentral

    I wouldn’t call tribalism a “small issue”, given its enormous sway in American politics. Very often, coalitions are formed based on identity, which includes race. Another problem I’ve noticed that goes hand-in-hand with identity politics is out-group scapegoating. By that, I mean the phenomenon where leaders of Muslim countries blame things as ordinary as earthquakes or shark attacks on Israel or where the Nazis blamed Germany’s defeat in WWI on Jews.

    I see a lot of the same thing going on among Black Americans, where White racism and police brutality have been used as propaganda by corrupt Black leaders to distract the masses from problems that originate within their own communities. Because at the end of the day, it’s too easy to blame someone else and play the victim card than to self-examine and solve the issues in your own backyard.

    None of this is to say American police brutality isn’t real but there is a reason why the Muslim world throws a fit when Israel kills Palestinians but is eerily silent when hundreds of times as many Syrians kill each other.

  27. Kiwi, I wouldn’t care about black victims, like I said, if denouncing popo brutality only benefits Blacks, then I wouldn’t support it. From what I saw and from the cases I’ve seen, popo brutality affects Asians too. You may not be concerned about it, but I do.

    I’ve known about the secret HELO or Helicopters’ missions to control people’s lives, I called it “Odonates circling above”. I don’t want to get too much into details about this, but it’s sickening.

    Since you’re into tribalism so much and concerned about identity politics, do you support Asians in Hollywood media representations too? Just curious.

    Aardvark has a good point, the SJW does not have monopoly on the Popo state brutality, so I wouldn’t care too much about joining their forces (coalitions), you don’t need to either. Think of it this way, you and I can vote for Trump without being full blown right wing republicans. I assumed you voted for Trump, do you support everything that the Right-wings stand for and represent? Do you support what the KKK did in Charlottesville where one of the KKK killed counter-demonstrators?

    I only voted Trump for a few things, one of which was his ability to bring back manufacturing and Tech jobs to the U.S., the other was his denouncing of the KKK in Charlottesville, these are the few reasons I can stand behind Trump WITHOUT being full blown Republican.

    That’s why I can stand behind anybody (including the SJW) who advocate to demolish popo brutality, WITHOUT me being full blown SJW. I hate SJW, and I don’t want to join their coalitions. But that does not mean I’m going to attack them when they speak out against popo brutality, something that I’m also against.

    I’d guess my whole point is, don’t go against them when the SJW advocates against popo brutality. You don’t need to join their coalition and definitely don’t need to join the BLM.

  28. Who mad the SJWs the spearhead of anti-police brutality issues? That’s just typical of the SJW social hierarchy and social engineering agendas: pecking orders and stepping ladders that everybody has to follow in line.

    There are mutual issues that different factions might agree upon, but the fact remains intersectionality does NOT imply commonality of social agendas – especially when it’s merely a ploy to gather numbers but only to achieve SJW agendas.

  29. It would be better if Asian Americans spearheaded the popo brutality issue, but like Kiwi said Asians don’t have the power and pretty much powerless to push any issues.

    It’s not just to achieve SJW agendas or only about benefiting blacks, if that’s the case I could care less. I don’t know have many times I have to say this, but the Popo state brutality fucks up Asians too. The difference is you will never hear about Asian vics on the news because you guys know fairly well, SJW media news don’t care about Asian victims. So when the Popo fucks up Asians, it’s all kept nice and quiet.

    Shows how much you guys care about Asians, you guys care more about being bitter at other groups such as SJW, rather than absolving issues toward what’s best for Asians.

  30. @ NeutralCentral

    if denouncing popo brutality only benefits Blacks, then I wouldn’t support it.

    There you go, that’s tribalism. Welcome to the club!

    do you support Asians in Hollywood media representations too?

    Do you mean stereotypical representations? No. Do you mean humanized representations? Yes.

    I assumed you voted for Trump

    I did not. I see Trump as anti-immigrant and immigration is one of the key drivers of Asian political power in the US.

    Shows how much you guys care about Asians, you guys care more about being bitter at other groups such as SJW, rather than absolving issues toward what’s best for Asians.

    I’ve gone around gathering signatures for petitions against the reintroduction of Asian quotas in Californian universities. I succeeded. I can’t speak for aardvark, but I think he’s been actively involved in producing Asian media. I’d bet good money we’ve both contributed more to Asian causes than you.

  31. Kiwi, thanks for your honest answers, again I do appreciate your identity politics for Asians.

    I’m not a tribalist, I’ve said that I’m for everyone including asians. If it’s only about blacks (which is tribalism) I don’t support it. If it’s only about Asians, I have to think twice before supporting it, because if only Asians are getting something, other groups will be triggered and mad rush to get at us and kick us down. So benefiting only for Asians will not last long, if everyone is happy, all groups are happy including asians, then that’s when something will last long. I’m definitely not a definition of a tribalist.

    I’ve helped many Asian vics got their lives back together after being fucked up by the popo, no news reported this, I also helped some families of dead Asian vics by the popo for translations. Let’s not turn this into an Olympic, I’m sure you and Aardvark have done many great things for Asians. Keep in mind, these are small steps as individuals can only contribute small efforts. Anti-Popo brutality is a national issue, and bigger issues require bigger solutions.

  32. @ NeutralCentral

    Alright, I’m calling BS. You helped Asian victims of police brutality then voted for a president whose election campaign sided with the police on every issue and even advocated police brutality? This smells like a steaming pile of cow manure.

  33. I only voted for Trump for the jobs, that’s it. It’s either him or Hillary, why did some of you guys voted for Hillary when she is on the same side with the SJW.

    What choice did we have? Voted for Obama was the worst stretch of popo brutality in history, started with George Zimmerman.

    Even you said popo brutality has been around forever. “Police brutality has been striking everybody for as long as people today have been alive.” All of a sudden, now you don’t believe it?

    So, you only believe it when it’s in the media?

    Websites exposing police brutality & Misconduct Newsfeed Daily Recaps
    The Counted (Victims) http://www.policemisconduct.net
    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

    The followings are Asian Victims from Police Brutality

    In 1997 Kuan Chung Kao was shot in the head by the Rohnert Park Police Department.
    Asian Americans and Police Brutality asianamericansandpolicemisconduct.wordpress.com/

    An Asian couple got harrassed by off-duty police on motocycles, in NY
    33 year-old Chinese newlywed banker Alexian Lien back in 2013 and they only get 2 years (or less) for it

    A South Asian Indian man while visiting his friend went to the wrong house and got beat up by the police and was sent to the hospital
    Sureshbhai Patel
    Judge Dismisses Case Against Police Officer Who Paralyzed Elderly Indian Grandfather
    Second Mistrial Declared in Police Beating of Sureshbhai Patel
    Defense Attorneys Go “Full Xenophobia” in Blaming Indian Grandfather for Being Paralyzed By Cop
    Petitions: action.18mr.org/patel-madison-pd/
    http://www.change.org/p/department-of-justice-investigate-the-police-who-left-an-unarmed-grandfather-partially-paralyzed

    A mentally challenged Asian guy was beat up to death by the police in San Jose.
    Many in the community have come to distrust the police because of some violent incidents, most recently the beating of a San Jose State college student and last May’s shooting death of Daniel Pham — a mentally ill man.
    Pham’s father, Vihn, says he hopes things will improve and that no more Vietnamese-Americans dies at the hands of police.
    abc7news.com/archive/7387311/

    84yo Asian American victim of NYPD brutality to sue city for $5 million
    the NYPD brutalize another one of the elders in your community for jaywalking like they did 84 year-old Kang Chun Wong

    Kim Nguyen, Asian American woman sues LAPD for Kidnapping and Sexual Assault
    http://www.asiancemagazine.com/news/2014/11/04/asian-american-woman-sues-lapd-for-kidnapping-and-sexual-assault

    Cops caught on-camera hurling anti-Asian insults, assaulting Asian American salon owner
    http://tw.thefempire.org/r/waitwhat/comments/877/twviolence_racism_cops_caught_oncamera_hurling/?sort=hot

    Police Officer Screams At Asian American Suspect: ‘I’ll Put You In A UPS Box And Send You Back’
    https://thinkprogress.org/police-officer-screams-at-asian-american-suspect-ill-put-you-in-a-ups-box-and-send-you-back-a711ff6675c5/

    Rally in Minnesota this Weekend To Demand Justice in Murder of Fong Lee
    http://www.startribune.com/fong-lee-the-human-cost-and-the-strength-of-his-family/103979934//

    Unprotected by Assimilation: Lessons from the Case of Duy Ngo
    http://blog.angryasianman.com/2015/05/read-these-blogs_10.html

    As many news organizations have been reporting, Vietnamese Americans in San Jose, CA are blasting the police department there for several incidents of police brutality, the latest one happening last month in which officers were videoed beating a young Vietnamese American man, Phuong Ho, who appeared to be unarmed and submissive,
    http://www.asian-nation.org/headlines/2009/11/incidents-anti-vietnamese-police-brutality-san-jose/

    Hung Lam http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_29300586/jury-awards-vietnamese-man-shot-and-paralyzed-by

    Michael Cho, or Cau Bich Tran’s shooting by police in San Jose (all of whom got acquitted btw)
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Cau_Bich_Tran
    http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Police-shooting-in-San-Jose-stirs-Vietnamese-into-2507951.php
    http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Jury-meets-in-public-over-shooting-San-Jose-2552613.php

    Michael Cho en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Cho
    http://www.ocweekly.com/news/la-habra-settles-suit-by-family-of-michael-cho-victim-of-brutality-or-justified-police-shooting-6444550

    Phuong ho http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_18044997
    thesocietypages.org/colorline/2009/11/02/incidents-of-anti-vietnamese-police-brutality-in-san-jose/
    stanrezaee.wordpress.com/2009/11/24/san-jose-polices-action-on-phuong-ho-was-justified-11142009/

    Police Officer Goes on Racist Tirade against Asian-American Suspect (Video)
    http://aattp.org/watch-police-officer-goes-on-racist-tirade-against-asian-american-suspect-video/

    http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2005/10/21/17767321.php
    socialjustice-samantha.blogspot.com/2009/09/people-in.html
    John Ho, 43, Asian male, killed by San Jose police after a standoff. The police auditor reported that he did not shoot at the police. 6/4/2004
    Johnnie Nakao, 21 years old, shot and killed by San Jose Police, 08/12/04. He was the son of Santa Clara County Sheriff’s Deputy John Nakao.
    Hai Nguyen, 22, a Vietnamese young man, was shot and killed by San Jose police officer Richard Foster. He was killed after aalleged standoff in which he allegedly pointed his gun at the police. Nguyen’s stepmother had called police after coming home about 11 p.m. Friday and hearing what she thought were shots being fired inside. 1/22/2005
    Yi Tzu Chen, a 43 year-old female, 43 year-old female Killed by SJPD Bruce Young when he rammed his cruiser into her stalled

    cop accidentally shot 21 year-old Vang Thao
    beat to death another Khoa Ahn Le
    beat to death a distressed man in desperate need of help like Mike Chen
    they shoot another one of you over a BB gun like Victor Charles Le
    When they get drunk and run over another innocent like Marilyn Huang Feng or Ryo Oyamada
    send your grandfather to an early grave like they did 76 year-old, Zheng Diao
    they assaulted another salon owner like Jessica Klyzek and claim she’s “not fucking American!” and that they’ll “put [her] in a UPS box and send [her] back to wherever the fuck [she] came from!”

    Barry Prak, Fong Lee, Feras Morad, and Ryo Oyamada ran over by cop

    (Non-Asian) Alameda County Sheriff Beating in SF Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irh3JUch7Hg

    filmingcops.com/cops-beat-an-innocent-man-tried-to-lock-him-away-for-5-years-until-chilling-dashcam-footage-saved-him/

    More Natives Killed By Police Than Any Other Group
    indiancountrymedianetwork.com/news/opinions/more-natives-killed-by-police-than-any-other-group/

    unjustified shooting

    Was Cromwell even permitted to carry a firearm in his capacity as a private security guard?
    Was security guard in “Pokemon Go” killing allowed to be armed?
    pilotonline.com/news/local/crime/was-security-guard-in-pokemon-go-killing-allowed-to-be/article_a97fc0a2-8942-5e84-94cc-86bceaebefa1.html

    60-year-old Jiansheng Chen was shot and killed by a security guard last month, one remains unclear.
    pilotonline.com/news/local/crime/was-security-guard-in-pokemon-go-killing-allowed-to-be/article_a97fc0a2-8942-5e84-94cc-86bceaebefa1.html

    Asian Student Holding A Pen Fatally Shot By Cops Night Before Graduation
    A student shot and killed by deputies in Washington state this month, who was originally reported to have been wielding a knife or “sharp object,” was in reality holding only a pen.
    The night of June 13, Tommy Le was just hours away from his high school graduation, according to a Seattle Times report published Wednesday. The 20-year-old Vietnamese-American had been attending classes at Career Link, an alternative high school program at South Seattle College.
    http://www.yahoo.com/news/asian-student-holding-pen-fatally-173557386.html

    Dash-cam video: ACLU calls this Minnesota traffic stop a ‘brutal attack’ by cop of laotian-american-man
    http://www.twincities.com/2017/06/22/video-worthington-mn-police-excessive-force-aclu-traffic-stop/

  34. For some reason my comment did not get posted because I posted a bunch of links about Asian vics of popo brutatlity.

    I only voted for Trump for the jobs, that’s it. It’s either him or Hillary, why did some of you guys voted for Hillary when she is on the same side with the SJW.

    What choice did we have? Voted for Obama was the worst stretch of popo brutality in history, started with George Zimmerman.

  35. I also get the spidey sense that NeutralCentral is a troll.

    SJWs have the limelight, so the acting on good faith to benefit all people should come from their court, not to tell “toxic AM misoglinists” to fall in line with the SJW social engineering agendas.

    Accusing others of tribalism while conveniently ignoring the racist SJW agendas fails to persuade! Period.

  36. I’m not telling you to fall in line with them SJW, I’m not even with them. Your spidey sense is all about slandering, not taking things at face value. I’ve said don’t join their coalition, why? because they don’t have Asians as part of their interests, so there’s no need to fall in line with them.

    Not going against them on 1 issue, does not mean falling in line with them. I don’t know how much clearer I can make this, but hey if you’re a slanderer then you gonna slander no matter what.

    I’m not accusing Kiwi of tribalism when he openly admitted to it. Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with tribalism, it’s not a bad thing. I’m just not a tribalist, but tribaling or identity politic is not a bad thing.

    BTW, I have a list of links of about 50 Asian victims at the hands of the Popo, if any of you guys are interested to see the list just hit me up at cmike5538@gmail.com and I’ll be glad to email it to you. I tried to post it here, but the post didn’t show up.

  37. @ NeutralCentral

    I agree with aardvark. Your posts seem disingenuous. I never “admitted” to tribalism. I made a racially neutral comment which you accused of tribalism, then you went on to make a tribalist comment yourself.

    American police have killed civilians at a nearly steady rate, in line with population growth, over the time span that you selected your Asian victims of police from. The only reason police brutality seems to be escalating is because of the media hyping it up, which you ironically accuse others of blindly believing.

    You are displaying behavior typical of SJWs: crying foul about others’ tactics while simultaneously emulating them.

  38. Sorry about that, Neutral. I just approved your comment. Everyone, it’s above.

    Thank you

    I made a racially neutral comment

    Kiwi

    My 1st post was neutral too, then the misunderstandings, you acknowledged that “It appears we were talking past each other.”

    I never “admitted” to tribalism.

    I’ll let your post speaks for itself.

    do you support Asians in Hollywood media representations too?

    Do you mean stereotypical representations? No. Do you mean humanized representations? Yes.

    You can change your mind, but you can’t change what you wrote. 1 issue doesn’t make either one of us SJW, but if you insist on calling that, then I’ll call you SJW too.

    You are displaying behavior typical of SJWs: crying foul about others’ tactics while simultaneously emulating them.

    You are doing exactly that, you fit the description of SJW to the tee.

    American police have killed civilians at a nearly steady rate, in line with population growth, over the time span that you selected your Asian victims of police from. The only reason police brutality seems to be escalating is because of the media hyping it up, which you ironically accuse others of blindly believing.

    This is disingenuous of you. Your 1st post did not convince me, it’s definitely not convincing me now. You are using rightwing media talking point, which suppresses everything as not a big deal. It’s only a big deal to rightwingers when the issues pertain to white people like the “No shades of grey” article that was just posted.

    You can find this headline in google search “Yesterday’s Ku Klux Klan members are today’s police officers”. Obviously you don’t believe in leftwing media talking point. Just like I don’t believe in your rightwing media talking point. So if you want to be more convincing, show some actual stats from the last 90 years to see the patterns of popo brutality, was it consistent throughtout or more of Lows and Highs at certain periods. Despite the media hyping in recent years there were still a vast majority of cases went unreported, particularly with Native Americans.

    Your sources must be from neutral websites, otherwise my original 1st post stands as you haven’t said anything worth convincing to change my mind.

  39. @NeutralCentral

    We’re NOT the ones you need to “convince” about police brutality, since we’re completely aware of it. It’s the Fangs and the other SJWs that ignore it.

    Also, for somebody who doesn’t ascribe to the SJW political camp you sure are infatuated with denying it. Sort of like a GOP senator constantly ranting against homosexuality but still having airport bathroom trysts? lol

  40. Personally, I think police brutality and terrorism belong to the same class of irrational fears that the Far Left and the Far Right respectively like to capitalize on for political gain. Notice that nobody panics over car accidents, which are way more likely to kill you. The truth is that people have an innate desire to have meaning in their lives, and often that is achieved by latching themselves to social movements in order to feel they are part of something bigger.

  41. If cars, guns, knives have emotions with selfactivation-selfmotion to move and operate by themselves, they’d be responsible for their own actions. Since these are unemotional unmovable objects, the human element gets the blame. Much like terrorism and PB, the human element gets the blame.

    Irrational fears are not that much different than rational fears, the human temperament triggers over 100 phobias. Fear is an innate instinct apart of human evolution since day one prehistorically, without this fear mechanism the development of human species would not survived this long. Human’s natural fear instinct creates stratum of protection for their young throughout time.

    People with rational fears who buy guns with the projection to protect their families from the unknowns are no different than the irrational fears that people have against cops, as the odds of home invasion is about the same as the odds of running into a crooked cop.

    Civilization needs opposite forces to counterbalance one force from gaining too much momentum into extremity. When you look at one party countries like Vietnam, China, North Korea, there are very little opposing forces to counterbalance the equilibrium scale to the moderate level. When society doesn’t get the dichotomous force, the predominant party slides into extremism by overstepping boundaries.

    The irrational fears from the right need the irrational fears from the left to keep the equilibrium scale from shifting too much toward extremism. Due to irrational fears of terrorism, the right’s counterterrorism made tremendous efforts to change national security, to the point of extreme airport TSA checkpoints and mistreatment of customers on airlines, invasion of privacy exposed by Edward Snowden, banning/deporting foreigners, and PB.

    The Left is stereotyped as the SJW of change and progressiveness, but in this irrational needs for extra security with layers of protections the left has done very little. Security measures have all been implemented by the right, none by the left. That’s why societies need voices of irrational fears from the left against PB to keep the equilibrium scale from tipping too much into extremism sponsored by the right’s state propaganda machinery of security fear mongering.

    Obviously too much irrational fears from either side is extreme, while the remaining portion of the population thinks they live in a safe space bubble, extreme of too much obliviousness.

  42. The left wingnuts are equally capable of violence and extremism. How soon does the mainstream mass media amnesia goes against James Hodgkinson and the Steve Scalise shooting? I even had to google search for a few minutes before it came up.

    The point should be that with the fractured internet and sensationalism for clickbait, how can moderation and rationalism win out?

    There’s no “extreme moderation” only common sense actions that maximize benefit at the least damage to minority groups.

  43. Bryon, have you considered that all American ideologies trace their root back to Christianity? Particularly the Calvinist Protestantism embedded in US culture? Think about the term “yellow fever” when it’s actually “white fever”.

    In Christianity truth = belief. In China, and Chinese philosophies and religions, truth = Reality. The former spreads through religious violence, witch burning, mob violence (cough cough SJWs), conquest, colonialism, while the latter spreads through awakening people to truth.

    Consider that Western European countries a) don’t or didn’t have this problem until the US exported their ideologies over there and b) Asian men outside the US have a much easier time, sometimes a *grand* time. Maybe there is something here…

    Christianity permeates American culture. You can’t see it but I can.

    Just look at how Asian-Americans refer to a phenomenon the outside world (that’s 95% of the world) calls “white fever”, as “yellow fever”. WongFu’s seminal video does it, as does their second follow up video ten years (!) later , as does Jeremy Lin (a Christian/believer/blind faith).

    But is what you and I truly see white fever or yellow fever?

  44. Oh, I totally agree. That’s why Malcolm, even with his Nation of Islam, quoted the Bible more than he quoted the Koran. As you mentioned, it’s an American thing. Not even a White thing, but an American thing. America took the whole idea of Protestant puritanism to a whole new level.

    And yes, I think the larger focus should be on White fever. That’s why I keep pointing at the “Asian American feminism” thing. As I said, there are three tenets of their movement: freedom from exoticizing by White guys, pinning the tail on the Asian male, and freedom to date White. Between yellow fever and White fever, I think White fever is the far stranger of the two.

  45. I don’t get it. What would being Protestant have to do with saying Yellow Fever instead of White Fever? Are you saying that say… Catholicism would be different in some way?

  46. Yellow fever originates with US military history in Asia. White fever is just internalized racism given an outlet for expression through the aforementioned phenomenon.

  47. Protestantism is evangelical. I’ve been at both churches. While there’s a bit of evangelicalism at Catholic churches, it’s nothing like the “you gotta get out there and spread the Word” that takes place among Protestants. For the most part, Catholics silently point the finger at others rather than pointing and shouting.

    Here’s another way to look at it. Catholics have confessionals. They got into these booths and talk about their own sins. Protestants don’t have such a thing. They are more likely to point towards the sins of others, even though they too are supposed to repent.

    So yes, I think it’s the same, but I think the emphasis tends to be different between the two religions.

    Also, just as a thought exercise, it would be interesting to think what would happen if American activism were based on a Jewish model. The Jews have NO evangelical component and no confessional component.

  48. What exactly is evangelicalism? I hear that term a lot.. but more like a description.. That church is evangelical…. do you mean they evangelize? And I’m assuming all religions must do that to a degree.

  49. If you take the gospels at face value, you have to arrive at the conclusion that Christianity itself is evangelical. Jesus evangelized, and his apostles certainly evangelized all over the Roman world.

    I think that the Catholic church evangelizes through (some?) of their orders like Jesuits, and through charity. I’m not sure which Protestant churches evangelize in this way, but the International Church of Christ / Crossroads movement/cult, was pretty infamous on campuses for their evangelizing (“sharing your faith”).

    My aunt went to a few Pentecostal churches, and I never saw them evangelizing in that way. I am actually not sure how they got to grow, but they must have been doing something. Same thing with the Baptist churches I went to.

    The main difference I see between Catholicism and Protestantism is the issue of whether you can pray to anyone other than Jesus to intercede for you, and the whole works vs faith thing. And, of course, Catholic services tend to be a lot more staid/meditative than your stereotypical “fire and brimstone” Protestant church.

    Of course, the similarity is that they all want your money. They really need those private jets, yo! 🙂

    All that being said, I find the comparison of SJW-ism to Protestantism kind of astute as it is like a fire and brimstone religion, though you can say the same for White Nationalists.

  50. Re: Catholic evangelizing vs ICOC church/cult evangelizing

    I meant to say that the ICOC expects members to “share their faith” and “bear fruit”, so their members end up being like Pickup Artists for Jesus, because they are given to understand that their own salvation depends on how many people they bring to “salvation” (which, when you look at how the leaders lived, translates to bringing in more paying members).

  51. King,

    I think my opinion is similar to Notty’s. I think of evangelizing as “trying to convert.” Not all religions do that. Jews, for example, usually don’t try to convert people at all. Some Jewish denominations don’t even allow you to convert, even if you wanted to! Most Buddhists also don’t seem to care either way, although all Buddhists allow you to join them.

    Moving further up the conversion ladder, Catholics are supposed to share the good news, but they don’t really do so much of that. For example, there aren’t many Catholics running TV megachurches, nor are there many who do the big tent revival thing. They have missions, but generally they don’t do the same kind of missionary work that the Protestants do.

    Then you have the Protestants. They send missionaries all around the world. They have college groups like Campus Crusade approaching and trying to convert other college kids. They’ve got megachurch millionaires like Joel Osteen. Converting is their biggest goal. This is what I think of when I think of evangelism, and yes, I think it’s similar to SJW-ism.

    On a side note, you’ve got others like the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Mormons. These people also try to evangelize, although they still seem to be smaller as a religion than the Protestants. I’m not sure why. They both seem to have the money, reach, and global connections. I have a feeling it probably has something to do with the way they are viewed by the Protestants–Romney seemed to face a lot of discrimination for his religion, although technically it’s supposed to be the same god.

  52. I think that the reason Jehova’s Witnesses and Mormons maybe don’t have as many members is that they’re so unorthodox in their beliefs that they’re considered cults.

    I guess the preferred word would be “proselytize” because it carries less of that religious connotation, but to me SJWism is a religion of its own. 🙂 I actually think SJWs have become like Crusaders who used to convert others at sword point, since they not only will threaten you with job loss but also may sneak in a sucker punch at you if they even think you’re a Nazi.

  53. Well if “evangelizing” is sharing an idea that you think works for you… wouldn’t that be a good thing? I mean, if somebody found some diet that really helped them to lose weight, would they not try to tell other people about it? And would it then be a bad thing if they did? It seems a pretty universal human response that goes with everything from sharing meatloaf recipes to telling your friends how 10 minutes of meditation every morning makes you calmer driving to work every morning. It seems to me that people tend to either share things, or they hide things, with very little middle ground.in between.

  54. King, I hope that you won’t think I’m a terrible human being that’s headed to Hell if I don’t like your meatloaf recipe. 🙁

  55. King,

    Think of it this way:

    Let’s say you know a guy who sells insurance. He’s always talking about insurance, and he’s always telling people they should buy through him. When this guy is around others, he’s always changing the subject to insurance. He doesn’t talk about anything else. His belief in his product is so strong that he refuses to admit when his arguments make no sense. If you have a relationship with your own agent, for example, he’ll badmouth your agent and tell you how your agent is fleecing you. His numbers, when he presents a cost-benefit analysis to his clients, make no sense at all. He’ll tell you that 2+2=5 just to make a sale. The problem is that no one is 100% whether he’s being dishonest, or whether he really does in fact believe that 2+2=5.

    Now how likely are you to invite this guy to your family barbecue?

    Probably not that much. And we all know a guy like this.

    This is the problem that I have with evangelicals. Yes, not all of them are like this. But lots of them are. It’s either their way or the highway. Because they believe so strongly and never allow logic or fact to interrupt their sales flow, they’re often very unpleasant to be around.

  56. @ nottyboy If you do not believe on my meatloaf you will BURN, sir! Especially if you set the oven at 450 instead of 350!!!

  57. “The Jews have NO evangelical component and no confessional component.”

    Jews seek to get people who are genetically Jewish to embrace Judaism. They call this Jewish outreach. If your mom is a Jew, you are a Jew, according to their belief.

  58. @ WOWO

    I think I understand what you are talking about, and I get it. But I do try to be fair across the board in such matters, and I think you may have a bias here.

    What you are doing is building a scenario of extreme and objectionable behavior that nobody would like. You are then imposing that behavior as a normative part of christian protestantism. However, there are Muslims who are one-track-mind evangelists too, (more so in Muslim countries). There are over-the-top Hindus, and evangelistic Atheists who can’t seem to pass by a church or temple without bursting into some angry tirade. There are people who wake up every morning scanning the newspaper headlines for something to complain about Trump over. Don’t get me wrong, Trump is an idiot, but hating him shouldn’t be some new form of religion! So this type of behavior is. by no means. exclusive to any one group. You are just noticing it in one group (confirmation bias).

    Secondly, if you think about it, if a protestant was not acting as you have described, how would you know they were even a protestant? I think the answer is that you wouldn’t. If a protestant simply evangelizes to people who ask them questions or who seem to be interested, then you probably wouldn’t even know that they were protestants, would you? I mean, if you are brutally honest about it, when was the last time a protestant actually asked you to join their church? How many times has that honestly ever happened in your life? Because it almost NEVER happens to me!

    I’m just saying that if we are not going to say that most Muslims are terrorists, by the same rule, we would not say that MOST protestants are fanatical hypocrites. Surely some are, and these will make themselves most visible and most annoying. But, as with Muslims, I suspect that the majority are reasonably rational and are just trying to live their lives as best they can.

  59. King,

    I agree with that. As I said, not all of them are like that. Maybe not even most of them. Some of them are great people. I happen to live in a suburb in a section that some refer to as Little India, so I actually don’t interact with many Protestants other than Koreans, who attend Korean-language services. The last time I got invited was earlier this year at the beginning of summer, but that was because some religious strangers (I think they were Jehovah’s Witnesses) knocked on my door during dinner time to invite me.

    But as I also said, I grew up in the church. It’s all about sharing the word. That’s what gets the pastor fired up on Sunday mornings. Share and spread the word. Share and spread the word. They might take a week or two to concentrate on why we’re all sinners. But then it’s back to sharing and spreading the word.

    I’m not denying that some of them are good people. It’s the same deal with SJWs. I’ve met some SJWs who I would LOVE to drink with, Snoopy being near the top of the list. But do you see how the conversations are often framed every Sunday morning? It’s an “us vs them” conversation where “us” has to convert “them” who are ignorant sinners. I’m sure some other religions are much the same, but I think it’s historically accurate to say that the modern SJW movement found its 1960’s roots in Protestantism rather than other religions. (As I remarked earlier, Malcolm–who would NOT be an SJW if he were alive today–quoted the Bible more than the Koran.)

    I used to be of the mindset that we had to eliminate religion. I no longer believe that, and I acknowledge that I also have friends who belong to religions. I actually see the value in religions these days. I also think that some people NEED religion. But I think we need to understand the values that religion imparts, and I think evangelism is something that has been adopted by the Far Left from Protestantism. The recent actions of the Far Left have been much more destructive than anything the Protestants have done in the past thirty years, so this entire conversation hasn’t really been a condemnation of Protestantism, but rather simply a means of identifying the roots of where the mindset comes from.

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