Is every White guy in Asia a loser?

I’ve been checking out the YouTubeiverse, mostly checking out Jvloggers in Japan. It’s pretty cool how many voices are out there. When I hear them talk about Japan, I recognize truth in lots of their remarks about cultural differences. It’s interesting stuff. It’s particularly interesting to hear from jvloggers who have spent years in Japan and have decided to live there permanently. I always wondered what life would be like if I stayed. There was no YouTube when I lived in Japan, so I didn’t get the benefit of hearing all this.

Anyway, Jake Nalton, a mid-20 something British jvlogger in Tokyo, linked the video above, which was created by a Vietnamese Australian (I’m assuming) vlogger named Troy Nguyen. In Troy’s video, Troy says that ALL White guy expats in Asia are losers, people who can’t find work and can’t get women in their own countries. Jake defends himself in the way that one would expect: he uses himself as an example and says that he himself is not a loser. I looked around the web, and it looks like a lot of other White-guy-vloggers in Asia have similarly defended themselves from Troy’s opinion.

To address Troy’s condemnation of ALL White guys in Asia, I can understand what Jake might feel. One can’t say that ALL white guy expats in Asia are losers. To make such a statement, one would have to travel to all countries in Asia, something which few people have done. Then one would have to meet every single White guy in every one of those countries. If there was one who wasn’t a loser, the statement would be inaccurate. In that sense, I agree with Jake. I also must say that I’ve met White guys in Japan who weren’t losers, so I know this to be unfair on a personal level.

On the other hand, Jake’s defense of White guys in Asia doesn’t adequately address the reasons behind Troy’s statement, many of which are legitimate complaints about racism and colonialism. If you watch some of Troy’s other videos, it’s clear that this is where he’s coming from. Jake acknowledges that it’s easier to get sex as a White guy in Japan, but he doesn’t say much beyond that or even question why that might be. If being of a certain race gets you more sex, wouldn’t it be natural to question why? That’s a benefit of Whiteness–not having to question racial patterns that give preference to Whiteness. Nor does Jake address other potent and overwhelming forms of White privilege and akogare in Japan, many of which are social and economic and therefore life-altering both for those it benefits and for those it excludes. Like all forms of racism, it’s easy to ignore racism if you’re the beneficiary of race preferences. It’s harder to ignore it if you aren’t.

I’ve worked in Portland, LA, San Francisco, New York City, and Japan. While I only worked in the eikaiwa system in Tokyo and never outside of that, I can personally vouch for the fact that White privilege is FAR greater in the Tokyo eikaiwa world than in any other industry in which I’ve ever worked in the U.S. That’s not to say that it’s impossible for an Asian American to work in the eikaiwa system, but to do so requires a certain level of professional acceptance of the racial hierarchy (you can be against racism, but not on company time!). White guys run the eikaiwa world in Japan. They drop racist statements that would cause lawsuits in the U.S., and they do so with abandon. I remember one job interview where my interviewer was telling me how many Japanese women he slept with–during the job interview, which was for a position as an English teacher, not for a position as a porn star or a gigolo or a host in a host bar, which would presumably have more relevance to one’s number of sex partners. I don’t think he was doing it to insult me; I think he was doing it simply because he saw me as another young “Western” dude with whom he could share his good fortune of being in an cultural ecosystem that has accepted notions of White supremacy to the point where it goes unchallenged. It’s really quite bizarre if you think about it. One would think that a White majority country like the United States would be far more accepting of ideas of White supremacy than a country like Japan where Whites are only a tiny minority, but it’s exactly the opposite, although I guess one could argue that White guys are not a minority in the eikaiwa world.

Then there’s the social world. I can’t really say that I experienced any racial prejudice from Japanese people while I was in Japan. But among many Japanese people who are part of the eikaiwa system–not everyone, of course, but a fair number of people–White people get better treatment. A White guy can be a complete loser, and there are enough Japanese within the system whose minds are so colonized that they’ll worship him like he’s Albert Einstein with a body like Arnold. After a (very short) while, it gets annoying–both the White worship and the attitude of the White guys who get the God treatment. The problem is not just White individuals in Asia. Rather it’s the confluence of history and society, along with the behavior of a significant number of White individuals.

Now things are even more complicated than that since there’s a world outside of the eikaiwa ecosystem in Japan. These are Japanese Japanese people, people who rarely see foreigners and don’t care about white privilege or any other kind of privilege since they rarely see foreigners or have any reason to see foreigners. But White guys–and Asian American guys, to be fair–rarely get much exposure to this world. I would guess that if a White guy ever found acceptance among this group, he’d most likely be a non-loser.

So in short, if you asked me to focus on the technicalities of Troy’s statement, I’d have to agree that not ALL White guys in Asia are losers. Some of them are genuine people, and some of them have interesting insights to share, which is why I watch their YouTube videos. But when a video like Troy’s comes out, people need to look beneath the surface of what someone like Troy says and instead think about why he said it. It’s a teachable moment. If you’re a White guy in Japan, it’s easy to sweep White privilege under the rug or pretend it doesn’t exist (and to be clear, I don’t think Jake is doing this), but it’s not going to make the problem disappear. Ignoring the problem simply causes it to fester. Sooner or later–whether you’re in Japan, Britain, or the U.S.–the problem will come back. It simply isn’t possible to maintain an unequal racial or cultural hierarchy without having repercussions. Sooner or later someone is going to have to fix this problem. Otherwise we’ll all continue to deal with the consequences of a racial hierarchy that has existed for far too long.

74 thoughts on “Is every White guy in Asia a loser?

  1. EVERY is too strong a word. It is also understandable for fresh graduates to spend a summer or short period abroad cheaply by simply teaching others their native language.

    HOWEVER, unless you are a English major who always wanted to teach English then if the best you could do was simply teach English (conversational or otherwise) to foreigners as a career, then you must be the BOTTOM of the barrel from your society.

    You would think an adult would have acquired more life skills than their native language to make a GROWNUP career. So, if after completing 4yrs of college (non-English major, etc) you are unable to find a job other than teaching English to foreigners, then you are the very definition of a looser. The Oxford dictionary has a picture of you under loser.

    Sorry ESL teachers in Japan. Most of you are losers says Oxford.

  2. OMG, thats just uncanny. I wrote my comments before watching the videos. Its faster to read than to watch … The guy in the first video just spoke my mind about the White English teachers in Asia. I wonder that the second video has in store for me.

  3. There’s something interesting regarding “unfairness” and the dating market. People get upset about race privilege, but rarely is there anything about privilege with regards to attractiveness, which impacts people’s lives more than race. Surely, an attractive Asian man has more advantages than a fat ugly White guy. Yet no one talks about privilege with regards to looks. A good-looking black guy, Asian guy, or Hispanic guy can do far better socially than an ugly or even an average looking white guy. For example, I know an Asian guy that does great in the dating market. He’s 5’9, athletic, and good looking. He blows most white guys out of the water with the opposite sex. We have a mutual friend who is White, 5’10, chubby and average looking. I also know a 5’11” skinny good-looking Asian guy who pulls more girls than a 5’10” white guy I know with an average build and average looks. I can think of similar similar examples with both Hispanic and black guys know. Both looks & race are examples of unearned privilege, yet people only care about race. Is this because people are tribal?

  4. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and also socially influenced by culture.

    Lots parts of the world, being fat is considered more attractive because of the association with food means wealth.

    Tang Dynasty China had chubby girls as beautiful. ^_^

  5. “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and also socially influenced by culture.”

    Not really. Across cultures, people find symmetry and clear skin attractive. An “average” face is considered attractive. No culture will find a pimply-faced deformed elephant man attractive. In Asian, Europe, and the Americas, short and fat people are NOT considered attractive (at least not in today’s world).

  6. @Blah, the bovine-eyed hairy-one,

    “There’s something interesting regarding “unfairness” and the dating market. ”

    Thanks for turning this into another IR debate though we were mostly talking about losers.

    Having said that, (1) rarely in the real world you get to separate race and beauty as you do. You should be giving me examples of equally ugly (or attractive if you like) guys but of different races, and do a comparison. (2) You are conveniently ignoring the history of White colonialism in Asia, its aftermath and also continued presence of White Christian foreign military in the said Asian countries. (3) Certain race that will remain un-named has cause wanton destruction of life and property everywhere they went but there is no history of a band of attractive people causing such destruction. So, its only natural that a certain race is discussed as a group when discussing certain destructive issues.

  7. “Not really. Across cultures, people find symmetry and clear skin attractive. ”

    Ouch … what are we going to do with the freckly, hairy (blond hair notwithstanding) White women. Ouch, ouch.

  8. The post touches upon race and access or sex.

    I won’t get in the gutter with you to trade insults.

    My point is that in the dating market, attractiveness (or “lookism”) trumps race. A White guy that looks like Jack Black or Steve Buscemi will do worse with women than an average-looking guy no matter if he is Asian, Hispanic, or Black. One’s level of attractiveness is an unearned privilege.

  9. “My point is that in the dating market, attractiveness (or “lookism”) trumps race. ”

    This is just stupid. If you want to isolate the effect of a particular parameter in an observation, then you have to hold the other parameters same. They teach these stuff in middle school science.

    This is also the same stupid things I hear from Whites when talking about privileges in GENERAL (not necessarily sex). They will point to a White beggar on the street and ask “Where is my privilege now?”. You are supposed to compare two equally qualified person (say two computer science graduate) but of different race, and then ask about privilege.

    In the second video (only watched the first 5 mins) we have these genius Bio-Chemist who is making a career teaching English in Japan to kindergarten kids. Umm … yeah, I am sure you are more skilled than the Vietnamese guy for sure.

    I have to ask what kind of deadbeat Japanese parents let some White dude from god knows where to take care of there 5-6 yrs old. Shouldn’t they be trying a little harder to teach them about Japanese culture? Who better to teach about Japanese culture than the Japanese? A White Christian Bio-Chemist who wasted 4yrs of his lives learning a subject and then …

  10. I’m finding myself disagreeing with everyone here.

    Blah, attractiveness is an individual trait. Race is not. Being more attractive than someone is similar to being more intelligent or taller or more physically fit. We’re all endowed differently. Having great skin or big muscles is an individual trait, just like being a better test taker or having faster reflexes. If someone judges you by attractiveness, they’re judging you by your individual merit.

    It’s quite different from judging someone by their race.

    John,

    I disagree with you here. What is wrong with being a kindergarten teacher? I honestly see nothing wrong with that. My first grader had a really good teacher this year, and I can honestly say that I would not be able to do what that teacher was able to do. Being able to work with kids is a tremendous skill that not everyone has.

    Seriously, if I had to do it over again, and if things had lined up in my favor,

    a) I would teach children rather than adults, and
    b) I’d spend three or four years doing it.

    Yes, there’s an incredible amount of White privilege in Japan. White privilege is HUGE. No continent treats White men (not women, believe it or not) better than Asia. But that being what it is, is it impossible to lead a good, worthwhile life while being an English teacher in Asia?

  11. John Doe,

    You think it’s okay that good-looking people have privilege over ugly people? With regards to race, do you think that a non-Asian has as good a chance to reach a good political position in Japan, China, or N. or S. Korea? Do Blacks and Hispanics face discrimination in Asian countries? Or Whites for certain positions? How about a non-Black looking for a political role in Detroit? Everything cuts both ways depending on context.

    Oh,and by the way, never change. Stay mad. 🙂

  12. ” attractiveness is an individual trait. Race is not.”

    I think attractive people can be grouped together across races, as can average-looking and ugly people. Attractive people, across races, have a more level playing field with the opposite sex than people of various attractiveness within race. Good-looking Black, Asian, and White guys as a group will tend to do better with the opposite sex than average-looking White guys, for instace. I’ve seen this phenomenon work out in real life–in college, bars, and clubs.

    “If someone judges you by attractiveness, they’re judging you by your individual merit.”

    I am not sure “merit” is the best word. That suggests that attractiveness is something that is earned and deserved. It is largely a genetic endowment, like race. Some people are born tall and don’t carry genes for male pattern baldness–that is not linked to merit.

  13. BigWOWO,

    I see your point as race being a non-individual trait. For example there are genetic clusters of race: http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2008/01/no-scientific-basis-for-race.html

    But think back to your junior high or high school years. Remember who the cool popular kids were? They all tended to be attractive: good-looking and athletic. At least in my school, there were “cool” kids of all races, but they were all attractive. They all did better with the opposite sex than average-looking people regardless of race.

  14. No, merit doesn’t imply anything is earned. It does imply that something is deserved, but that was my original point anyway. Here:

    https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=merit+definition

    “the quality of being particularly good or worthy, especially so as to deserve praise or reward.”

    Being “good or worthy” doesn’t imply anything about effort or work. It could be that, but it doesn’t have to be.

    Have you read the OKCupid surveys? They basically negate what you just said. We’re not as race-blind as you seem to say. Hell, weren’t you the one who said you preferred Asian women?

  15. “Oh,and by the way, never change. Stay mad.”

    No, no. I will settle for money. Nice try avoiding reparation.

  16. “I disagree with you here. What is wrong with being a kindergarten teacher?”

    Nothing wrong. And as I said, EVERY is too strong a word but if you have all these Whites whose only marketable skill is their native language then you have to wonder how good their Bio-Chemsitry was to start with.

    But I am still scratching my head about the parents who want their kids in Japan to be taught by a White dude. I can appreciate if these parents are thinking their wards are going to get a leg up by learning English instead of Japanese but I personally think its a mistake. I have travelled to Japan for business, and from what I have seen in my technical field, most Japanese can do just fine without any English if the choose not too. Its not some rat infested poor Asian country where knowing English has a huge impact on the lives of the natives.

  17. “You think it’s okay that good-looking people have privilege over ugly people?”

    Its like asking if I think a richer person can buy more cheese burgers than a poorer person. Thats what being rich means ….

    White privilege is an entirely different thing. Japan provides a very good example of it. Every Asian who is not East Asian should go to Japan once in their lifetime to experience White privilege.

    Sorry, Blah as a White you will never get to understand White privilege. Yeah, sue me. Its for the rest of us to know.

  18. BigWOWO,

    I prefer Asian women, yes, but partly because I consider them to be more attractive. This is mostly because I like petite women. But I’m not a typical White guy and therefore a bit of an outlier. I also tend to mesh well with them in terms of personality but anyways…there aren’t as many petite non-Asian women in my area though.

    With regards to the OKCupid survey, to my knowledge it did not control for education, occupation, height, and build. It only controlled for race. But it’s hard to disentangle all the variables, I understand. I still found it interesting.

    Most of my Asian guy friends (the ones who are considered good-looking) do better than the average-looking guys I know regardless of race, but maybe my observations can’t form a generalization. I’ve noticed the same trend with above-average looking guys of other races.

  19. “ … there aren’t as many petite non-Asian women in my area though.”

    Ouch, ouch … freckled, hairy, cows.

  20. “But I am still scratching my head about the parents who want their kids in Japan to be taught by a White dude.”

    That’s racism…dude.

    What if someone wrote:

    “But I am still scratching my head about the parents who want their kids in America and/or Europe to be taught by a Asian or Black dude.”

  21. “ “But I am still scratching my head about the parents who want their kids in America and/or Europe to be taught by a Asian or Black dude.”

    That’s racism…dude.”

    Tsk, tsk, tsk. First privilege, now racism. What else do I have to teach you about? It would be racism if there was a cheese smelling, hairy White Japanese citizen who grew up in Japan, and petit, non-freckled Japanese women who was chosen to be teacher just because the other candidate was White everything else relevant being equal.

    On the other hand you have to scratch your had and ask yourself why are White parents signing up for their 5-6 yrs old to be taught by a native Fujian men in the US of A. Are the parents thinking Fujians are going to take over the world? You would think it would be normal for White Christian parents to teach their 5-6 yrs old about their glorious gift-to-humanity culture instead of Fujian culture.

    So, what is the motivation for the Japanese parents send their 5-6 yrs old to learn from a White from wherever instead of learn something from a native Japanese at such a young age. Its not like they need to learn something from a Bio-Chemistry journal thats not accessible with only knowledge of Japanese.

    So, please enlighten us about 5-6 yrs old and genius White Bio-Chemists.

  22. Blah,

    I think you need to dig deeper here. Take a look at the OK Cupid data. Actually, you can look at any data. Preferences exist, and there are quite a few studies that control for the other variables you mention.

    John,

    Okay, point taken on the biochem thing. I think if you’re good at biochem, you usually continue to do biochem.

    BUT…let’s assume his biochem isn’t so good. Even then, teaching kindergartners isn’t just about English. It’s about bringing the best out of children and helping to guide them into becoming better people. It’s a hard skill that one develops with experience. If this guy has spent, say 4 years in college and 4 years as a teacher, you could say that he has as much training in teaching as he does in biochem.

    As for the language training, I think all parents like to expose their kids to different languages. English is still the lingua franca in most situations, and so it’s probably the most popular. Chinese is starting to become popular in the U.S., although I think it would be hard for Chinese to ever reach the same level of common use as English, given the complexity of the writing system.

  23. “Even then, teaching kindergartners isn’t just about English. ”

    The first video was about White people teaching English in Asia, second (I watched only about 5 mins) was about a counter point.

    From almost everything that is available, it seems these White people were hired for their English speaking abilities. Also, note that most of these ESL teachers happen to be White. Nothing the second video said so far that I could see dispels the notion that these are some losers who couldn’t really make a career in Bio-Chemistry or what ever, and they are making a living with the lowest common human ability that is the ability to verbally communicate in some form.

    Granted, teaching kindergarteners is not easy, and the Bio-Chemists in Japan are learning how to teach along the way. However, the video is not just about kindergarten teachers or a few exceptional people who discovered their inner calling to be teaching 5-6 yrs old in Japan after wasting 4 yrs worth of top dollars in college tuition (that could feed a poor village for 10 yrs somewhere) studying Bio-Chemistry.

    Nothing in the video dispels the notion that some parents feel their kids would get a leg up in the world by learning English instead of their native language. I don’t know if that is true, especially in a country like Japan where you possibly could complete your entire education in Japanese, and have a career entirely speaking Japanese. Yes, English is a primary language of communication. HOWEVER, most kids don’t grow up to be diplomats of world class businessmen. Learning English as a second language from middle school (after they have learned their native language in primary school) could be just as effective for most people.

    Then we have some irrelevant discussion where a White guy nicely puts his Asian fetish as preferences for “petit”, “clear skin” women effectively calling White women freckled cows. He then doubles down on the unfairness of beauty and race.

    Talk about privileges … to ask about the unfairness of beauty. As someone from a former White colony, let me just say that racism and beautism are NOT on the same planet. 100s of millions of people were killed for racism. Take that beautism! How many millions have you killed?

  24. If you know anything about science, you would know the evolution theory by Darwin. Many species have gone extinct because they don’t have the desirable traits to have offsprings. Well, asian men don’t have the desirable traits that women of all races want. It sucks to be you but asian men are going extinct because they were just born undesirable. They might have kids for a generation or two, but with undesirable women ( the ones no one wants to sleep with like fat, old, addicts, etc), making their kids even more undesirable, after a few generations, asian men become so undesirable even the filthy rich asian men can’t pay women to have their kids.
    It’s just nature doing its work guys. No need to bitch about your fate. Even the most advance asian countries like Japan treat whites better than yellows, and Japan was never colonized so don’t blame colonialism. It’s just human instinct to prefer what is better. Many species have gone and asian men are next. You will or will not be missed.

  25. UMmmm… I’m assuming Kyrie is going for some kind of “reaction” with a really bad joke???

  26. I have to say though, it’s really quite funny how most people have no idea how evolution works and how it doesn’t.

  27. “I have to say though, it’s really quite funny how most people have no idea how evolution works and how it doesn’t.”

    I was thinking the same thing. Somehow evolution, quantum mechanics (many world interpretation) and quantum gravity attracts a lot of nut jobs.

  28. Kyrie’s jokes fall flat. I think he’s something like 0 for 10. Another day, another swing, and another miss for Kyrie.

  29. You remember the Dodo Bird? Well a little known fact is that all the males went extinct a whole century before the females did! They just weren’t DESIRABLE enough!

  30. Is that why the word “Dodo” sounds like a synonym for “loser?” If someone called me a “Dodo,” even without knowing the meaning, I’d assume that I was being insulted. Yup, those Dodo males just weren’t desirable!

  31. I don’t know why this Vietnamese guy would waste time making this video. It’s been done to death a hundred times. The effect would have been different if he spoke in Vietnamese, and re-tooled his message. Cause then it would get to the heart of the matter. Cause white guys in Asia aren’t going to go “oh no I have all of this “privilege”” and then give up pussy that throws itself at them. Shit like that doesn’t happen, and what are we really bothered about anyway? You want to talk to Vietnamese people. You don’t want to talk to white people or even Asian people growing up in the west because those people only want to vent. If you went back to Vietnam, you went back because you wanted to do something. You went back because of a calling.

    This Vietnamese guy has a six-pack and Vietnam has 1000 miles of beachfront. Do you know how much tourist pussy he would pull just by being more laid back, and being a surfer with a more sophisticated and socially conscious persona? That is the melding of athleticism and high intelligence in a non-douchebaggy package that most women can only dream of.

    There is an untapped world of female yearning and desire that just goes to waste unfulfilled if you do not step up.

    Nothing says “Fuck You” to white douchebags in Asia than when they are bragging about the easy pussy, and everybody around them thinks they are bottom feeders, and hell even the women they can only dream of back home remembers that one week in Vietnam when she had the BEST FUCK of her lifetime with a Vietnamese dude.

  32. Haha! Well Sengge, I don’t know…

    There was a time, back when Byron and I were knocking around on the web in the earlier 2000s when a lot of Asians were wondering if all the self-reflection and carping was doing any good. I mean, it was a real question as to whether to endlessly TALK about these problems or not.

    i have to say that in the end all the TALK on the internet finally filtered into society. The idea of white men having “yellow fever” and being “rice chasers” became a mainstream idea. White guys and Asian girls who were in serial interracial relationships with only one race found themselves on the defence. Asian girls who had blogged about the joys of White sauce, one by one took down or denounced their own words as misguided and naïve.

    I’m not saying that everything is FIXED 100% but I think that talking about these issues almost anywhere is a good thing, and can eventually bring awareness and change. Not that what you’re saying as an alternative is not bad either.

  33. They are not loser but winners. They are getting Japanese women left and right. I can’t wait until I get over there. I will be treated like a god. Yet you blame us because Asian women are easy. It has nothing to do with racism. Asians guys are just jealous because they can’t compete with our white skin. It turns me on taking another race’s women whatever it be Asian or Hispanic.

  34. Um… Hispanic isn’t a “race” Siggy.

    Haven’t you learned anything coming here all these years?

  35. I hate Japanese and Koreans with a passion. I’m sure many on this blog will agree with me.

  36. So before the trolls came in…

    One thing I’ve noticed, with regards to what King and Sengge were discussing, is that when I talk to younger people these days, sometimes they have to vent. When we had those early internet discussions that King was describing, the discussions had taken place but on a smaller scale–Frank Chin had discussed it with maybe a few of his closest friends during the 70’s and had written about it. From those discussions, he published essays. I read those essays, but not many others did. Then the internet came, and everyone was discussing it. As King said, it filtered down to everyone.

    These days, even though the knowledge is out there, young men today still vent, mostly because the problem hasn’t gone away. I think young guys today have seen all the internet discussions, but venting is a way to own it and to come to terms with the damage it has done. For us, we’ve already had our venting time. I hope that young guys today can vent for a much shorter period and then move on more quickly than we did.

  37. How is the problem going to go away when young people are being trained to “vent” and then essentially continue on doing nothing to address the problem – if it so exists? Is it even a problem?

    I don’t know what the Asian American experience is like, but I’m guessing that the guys who went out there and actively did something with their lives fared a whole lot better than the ones who merely “vented” to let off steam and then continued with whatever.

    In Vietnam, conditions are different. The people are much poorer, per capita. The gap between the have and have nots, the lack of economic opportunities – even in a country where women are used to trade and labor – means that perhaps hundreds of thousands of them flock to cities and towns all over the country and abroad to make a living via prostitution. We don’t have to talk about more mundane things like marrying or dating “up” or even, throwing themselves at white men. Because if you’re from outside Vietnam and look like you have money, women will make themselves known to you that they are sexually available.

    How does “venting” in such a situation improve the lives of the Vietnamese, even just one of them, or make you feel better?

    The Vietnamese know that having been cut off from world trade and economic development for so long it would be suicidal and regressive to h8t0r4d3 on white people in a blanket manner. Even so, there were a thousand more subtle and insidious ways to create messaging to influence the Vietnamese populii. They make their choices rationally, we must begin with that assumption instead of falling back on old tropes and ideas like “legacy of colonialism” and other such things. If the women queue up to like a diseased white bunghole, they made a rational choice. It’s no different than if they worked in a karaoke bar in any urban center in Vietnam.

    People talking and only talking about the same things represents no improvement to me. I am impatient. People must not only talk, they must also do.

    This young man threw away an advantage he had, and I’m not sure what he traded it for. It may really be as some of the commentators have said: this was provoked by some kind of emotional or psychological disturbance or personal unhappiness.

  38. Sengge, I feel that “venting” in a Starbucks, among a bunch of college-aged Asian guys doesn’t do much beyond releasing pressure and finding the support of others who might be noticing/experiencing the same problems. But “venting” on the internet has a much greater value.

    As Byron said, VERY few people had read Frank Chin or seen his groundbreaking Asian theater a few decades ago. They were local phenomenons in the Berkeley area of Northern California. Besides they were mostly “intellectual musing.” But the ideas and viewpoints that Chin espoused were like a latent virus that could be passed on from host to host. Today, it is common knowledge within the AA community that White America has been controlling the image and perception of Asians to others for centuries through media. and its pretty much gospel that the portrayals have been rather negative and unfair. The idea that Asian men are particularly targeted with a certain unmanly, passive, and weak, image while at the same time, the women are sexualized and exotified has also become fairly widely understood.

    But these realities all started out as “venting” if you will. It was the venting into books, blogs, chatrooms and later onto media that got these ideas out into the world. Today, it’s not just Asians who get the “Asian Dilemma.” Latinos and Blacks who read and are interested in racial matters also have a pretty fair idea of it. It has become a widely-shared idea (at least on the internet) that has changed perceptions among many.

    Old perception: Asians are the willing lackeys of White people and this can be seen particularly by how often they intermarry with Whites.

    Revised Perception: Asians men are victimized by White men in order to give them access to Asian females who they seek to control, sexualize and subjugate based of their own perverted stereotypes of Asians women.

    Now, has EVERYONE gotten the message? No. There are still plenty of people who don’t read, or who never get out of their own small corner of the internet. But if you gather a large enough group, almost anywhere, someone will be able to explain the revised perception to the others.

    This, to me is an example of how venting a true idea is never a total waste of time. And the more people you can vent it to, the faster the virus will spread. In this case a guy like Siggy walking down the streets of LA with an Asian girl on his arm today will get a mixture of reactions. For sure, many indifferent, but also some of them will be quite negative, unlike before the venting of the truth occurred.

  39. @ King

    I would add that being silent only serves to empower those who actively seek to promulgate false ideas, like the Joy Luck feminist crowd. If Asian men don’t take control of their own narratives, Asian women will. The fact that many Asian American women continue to promote stereotypes of Asian men in cultural works tells me that Asian American men have a lot to do in terms of building their own voice.

    Not sure how sleeping around with random women is supposed to help. At least, that’s not how Frank Chin would do things.

  40. Hey Kiwi! Good to hear from you. I see you are still occasionally soldiering on over at Abagond (a place where I have totally given up on!)

    Yes, I’m not saying that talk is the only thing one must do, but it is certainly the first step that can then lead to action. But perception is everything. Once you expose certain lies, it becomes exceedingly hard to squeeze the toothpaste back into the tube. But, In your opinion and experience has there been progress?

  41. If you want to fight wars you must be cunning. You cannot hope to win by following a textbook and relying on magic for victory, which is essentially what those nincompoop and incompetent Turkish coup plotters attempted. If I did not know better, I would say that the coup plotters actually WANTED to lose and had a masochistic craving for punishment.

    This idea that if a lot of people “talk” and “vent” about something, then change occurs, awareness happens, sounds a lot like one of those myths people create to make themselves feel better. You create a story, an imagination in the minds of people and then they expect that by following the story a happy outcome will occur. The only saving grace is that this mythology of “conversations” and “discussions” and “venting” does not make extravagant promises such as 72 virgins in the afterlife.

    But is it truth or fiction?

    Who made a bigger impact? Telegenic Millennial couples on Youtube, or the anonymous personalities in “Yellowworld”, “Model Minority”, and other “Asian American” websites repeating the same thing again and again ad nauseum like the bottomfeeders once did on this blog?

    What attracts people? Happy faces and positive messaging, or unhappiness, anger, unbridled ranting? Who do people follow? Winners? Or obvious losers and pity, charity cases?

    Kiwi’s assertion that the alternative to “venting” is being silent is the classic false dichotomy of the victim and the helpless person. The most dangerous animals make no sound when they attack. There is a premium placed on a calculated and well executed plan of dynamic action, over the reactive bleating and crying of the prey animals.

    You must choose what animal you are and which animal tales you want to follow.

  42. Sengge, it totally depends on the truth and/or importance of what you are talking/venting about. Sure, if you are just B.S.ing or complaing about minor issues, that have little impact then I would agree with you.

    Consider the ideas that had to be “vented” in Black-American culture in the late 1960’s, the concept that “Black is Beautiful.” Sure it seems trite, and perhaps even immodest. But taken in the context of centuries of White oppression, the truth that Black could be seen as beautiful was groundbreaking thinking to that generation. Self love and acceptance was the foundation upon which everything else was eventually built.

    Similarly women had to talk/vent about the idea that a woman]s place could be more than just in the home. It began with women talking amongst themselves, then grew to advocating, then demonstrating, and finally litigating! But the first step is always awareness… ALWAYS!

    Once an unfair perception is unmasked and people become aware of it, it loses much of it’s power. Changing public perception is the first step to changing public behavior. I’m not saying that talking is the end of it. I’m just saying that it is PART of it (and a big part) and therefore something that cannot be brushed aside as unimportant.

  43. Japan is the quintessential East Asian nation, afflicted with Whiteophilia. I can’t blame them. It makes a lot of sense, that they want to be like Whites.

    Japan is the only East Asian Nation, that has a honorary White Status, because of its successful Westernization process in the late 19th century. The Ottoman Turks, a century before, marveled and also envied Japan, as the only “Oriental” nation to emulate the Western values with utmost success, which I think was a model for Turkey’s secularization. Ironically, Japan and the less successful East Asian nations, may now want to look at the Middle East and its relationship with the West, for self reflection and self inquiry.

  44. Self reflection and self inquiry is an alien concept to you Chr. Therefore you should sojourn far and wide to discover it.

    See ya!

    King,

    The problem I have with the venting is this: it’s a low bar. But affecting incremental changes is a high bar. People are vaulting the low bar and avoiding the high altogether, because it’s “too difficult” and “takes too much effort”.

    We have a lot of venting, a lot of discussions, and saying that this is surplus effort when compared to people who will do more than just talking, is an understatement.

    In addition, the quality of the ideas being spread is not of a uniform high value. We have maybe 1% good, clear thinkers (not me) but the rest are just using “IR” and “privilege” discussions to poke at their own sore trigger points, creating giant echo chambers for even the stupidest of concepts with no elucidation, no hope whatsoever.

    We’ve had more than a decade of this and it turns out that the ones who talk less are also the ones most likely to do something about it, whether its putting themselves out there with a video or something.

    I have discerned no evolution in methodology or sophistication from the chatterers.

    Situation in Vietnam is not like in America. The situation can be assessed – not on doctrinal levels and ideologies – but in a down to earth manner. Attitudes and unhappinesses, factual realities can be discovered. Trust can be earned. Ideas can be insinuated. And then cleavages can hammered open with the right wedges. This young Australian man took a hardline stance and wants open hostility and revocation of privileges against RICH expats spending money on Vietnam. This is a NO HOPER proposal. No Vietnamese will agree. They need the money. They will put up with it. And if you press them too far they will abandon you because you’re a radical. You’re trying to get them to do something to make yourself feel better. Vietnam is depending on foreigners, capital, talent, and manpower to develop the country now. They will not turn their backs on the only chance they have to be economically relevant. Why choose a goal which will set everybody back just to make you feel happier?

    Ditto with the idea that white people should “question” the “privilege” and the “inequality”. This is another NO HOPER. Why should they do so? Are there any penalties to them if they don’t? Do they actually suffer? Are they punished? They should do so, because? Something amorphous bad will happen in the future? Where is the pull for any particular white man to do so? Why should he take an interest? Have you explained? Is it convincing?

    Perhaps there are better audiences and methods to appeal to and with.

    Clarify the audience: let it be the Vietnamese, or the diaspora, or even socially conscious women, instead of just angry disgruntled people. Clarify a goal: more than awareness, there must be a positive effect on human lives. Refine the methodology: Be more than the vocal academic, the internet intellectual, the angry young man. Form alliances: of likeminded people willing to work on something. Spread actual knowledge: a praxis so that your people is “upgunned” with the tools they need to improve their own lives or help others effect the change.

  45. Maybe because countries like Japan, South Korea, and China are repressive towards women, white guys are just sticking up for the voiceless.

    According to Noam Chomsky, Chinese women are regularly locked in factories with less than ideal conditions, and of course Japan and S. Korea have become economically viable because of their oppressive attitudes towards women. White men are generally more egalitarian, which is probably by Asian women tend to find them better partners.

  46. @ Dan DiMaggio

    How would you explain the fact that this trend tends to continue even in the West were the Asian men born here are JUST as “egalitarian” as the White guys, if not more so? How about all those Asian-American men who are westernized and who, according to the numbers, are smarter, more highly educated, and make more money than the average White guy??? Wouldn’t you think that Asian-American women would be more attracted to them? I mean, hey, they outclass White men in EVERY measurable way possible!!!

  47. “Wouldn’t you think that Asian-American women would be more attracted to them? I mean, hey, they outclass White men in EVERY measurable way possible!!!”

    For American population, a good comparison would be participation of Asian American women vs White women in male dominated field such as STEM. It would indicate which population is more egalitarian.

  48. Dan brings up an old point of propaganda, one that has been consistently used for several decades as a cultural weapon to enhance a White prestige.

    Points of propaganda like these have a target audience; it is most certainly assured not to be Asian men. Only the most weak-minded and small-testicled twerp will fall for it. In addition people who say this already have an agenda, so trying to refute them online is a pointless exercise. It is no use trying to win an argument online when variations of this message are saturating the media and media personnel conversations in Asian countries, which is the true target.

    Efficient counter-messaging means tracking points of propaganda like these, understanding who the target is, and getting enough influence and positions of advantage to put in our own ideas to refute, counter, or bypass this propaganda entirely.

    You can’t do this as an outlier. There are a hundred things I can think of right now to sour the Vietnamese of predatory and manipulative white behavior.

    But just to be clear, the goals must be clear. What are our goals? It shouldn’t be just to kick sand in the white guy’s face and then to continue bumbling about. He used to be known as a wop. He is irrelevant. It should have nothing to do with sexual jealousy, because frankly, that is a minefield of unresolved issues on the part of the Asian men. It should not be purely reactive and “responsive” to every lie or slur thrown at us, because you will drown in the churn they can manufacture. There must be an offensive.

    Let me suggest a goal: Many Asians continue to live in highly rigid and constrained societies that do not provide its members the personal freedom to explore the world and their roles outside of what is prescribed for them. Therefore, they have an ignorant and almost childishly naive view of the world outside of their own, whether its a silly little girl with dreams of finding a white knight, or an aging population in a Confucian society struggling to understand Islamic terrorism and Donald Trump/ Netanyahu. We can rigorously disabuse them of the fictions the propagandists are building around their lives, and we should do so from a position of influence and power. A simple act of presenting them with the reality versus the dream will create sufficient cognitive dissonance for our purposes.

    Everything must begin from power and influence, not from anonymous talking heads on the internet.

  49. I guess this is a response to King’s comments. Humans are rarely satisfied with what they have, and so do many Asian women, who often desire White men, despite being surrounded by a countless number of “highly educated” and high earning Asian men, who would make better mates.

    Humans do not operate on logic principles.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/01/the-group-that-seriously-out-earns-white-men/#comments

    Just reading the comments of this article that Asian men are out earning everybody.

    It appears that some Whites are denial, despite having sour grapes, by brushing it off as trivial. You know them, the same White folks who apply the same standards on to Black folks: Why can’t you guys be like the Asians?

    At the other end, you have Asians who gripe about the intense discrimination they face, and say none of this is really true, because Asians need to work harder, and often bump the “bamboo ceiling”.

    So the bottom line is that humans do not operate on logic, but on emotions.

  50. @Senegg Model Minority, Yellowworld and Fighting44s no longer in exist.

    Now as for reaction to me dating an Asian Female, I seriously doubt I would have any negative reaction to me dating them. I never heard of such reactions.
    So what if some jealous Asian Male stare or frown. I would just ignore them and walk on, proudly.

  51. King, that is not the same Model Minority as it was. This is a different weaker version. It is not the same one years ago.
    Yellowworld forum does not work. The website has not been updated in years. It is sitting dead. So I am right in a way. Yellowworld is dead in the water and Model Minority is not the same.

  52. @siegfried In the real world no one really gives a fuck about who you are who you date or what you do, in fact this whole white asian pairing is exagerrated ad nauseum especially online, sorry to burst your bubble but white people are not the center of the world, asian women go for all non asian males, indians, arabs, blacks, latinos etc.. etc.. especially if they have money and some form of social standing theyll go for anyone even a small dicked limp wristed midget hermaphrodite.

  53. “…even a small dicked limp wristed midget hermaphrodite.”

    Well… maybe not THAT far….

  54. @king oh yes that far… if you have seen what ive seen in asia…. its these bizarro pairings of these ultra short short pudgy lesbian midget dykes i see palming the butt of a car import supermodel pretty asian girl thats dating said lesbian midget dyke that leaves me face palming hard. And the hot girl isnt even lesbian but a straight girl to add insult to injury…. yes i have seen these pairings at auto shos, fashion shows and it really blows my mind how pretty girls can have literally ZERO standards.

    They can be highly irrational to the point that its a complete waste of time trying to figure out why they like this person or that person or that person. Its never ending and endless. Like i said,yes ive seen asian women with white men in japan, china, thailand, etc.. etc.. but ive also seen them with Indians, arabs, black people, pure white chinese girls pretty ones with dark skinned malays etc.. etc.. white men are hardly the center of the universe as asian women i think some of them are tiring of them and moving on to something new or more exotic like darker skinned or mixed race guys etc.. etc.., things i think maybe changing these days.

    I dont think its about race, i would peg it mostly on the individual, if your good with women then youll get a girl even if your are fjcking small dicked lesbian midget dyke…. If your not, you wont simple as that. we can not make excuses about why we fail.

    As far as white men teaching in asia, theres always going to be a mix of good and bad, and honestly it isnt fair to label white men as losers for teaching esl in asia, ive met many who are decent people and it would be a disservice to marginalize them the same way asian men are also marginalized as an emasculated stereotype..

    And if you call esl teachers losers then what the fuk about the rest of the world where people struggle to survive selling shoes, food on the streets? Are they all losers too? Everyone deserves a right to their dignity regardless of their social standing and this imo is a highly conceited and arrogant way to think of other people.

  55. Latter part of the comment is directed towards others, not towards King sorry if there maybe misunderstandings.

  56. Well before all that shit happened in Syria I saw them pairing up with Syrians…. if you want to know.

    But ultimately this isn’t about the women. I’ve asked my peers plenty of times why they wont talk to that hot white girl, that hot black girl, that hot indian girl, that hot lebanese girl… i cant get a straight answer. I get putdowns or excuses. Its fucking lame.

    Its the culture. Its not the women.

  57. “And if you call esl teachers losers then what the fuk about the rest of the world where people struggle to survive selling shoes, food on the streets? Are they all losers too? Everyone deserves a right to their dignity regardless of their social standing and this imo is a highly conceited and arrogant way to think of other people.”

    Max, I think you may be slightly misunderstanding the accusation here. I don’t think that the problem is simply being an ESL teacher in Asia. The problem has been with an entire micro-Culture that White men have built around what should be an honorable endeavor. Over the years there has been blog after blog, message board after message board, website after website created by these ESL guys who:

    1) Fetishize and sexualize their students
    2) Take advantage of their position
    3) Actively disdain the men of the culr=tures they are visiting
    4) Recruit others to come and do the same thing

    It’s not about looking down on honest people doing a necessary job. It’s backlash over a rather nasty breed of prejudice that’s been concentrated into a certain field.

  58. “1) Fetishize and sexualize their students
    2) Take advantage of their position
    3) Actively disdain the men of the culr=tures they are visiting
    4) Recruit others to come and do the same thing”

    Who empowers these white men?

    Asians.

    In places like Singapore and Vietnam, it is Asian bosses and Asian capital that pays for the marketing that elevates these low quality white turds into the hot stuff that they are.

    How are you going to fix this by throwing crap at white people, or asking them to “examine their privilege”? You might as well ask a cow to quit its cud. Not going to happen.

    If you want to smack anybody, then smack the people who most deserve it. Don’t make excuses such as “colonial mentality”. Vietnam won the war, remember? Smack them for their lack of pride, their bootlicking mentality and their greed. Most importantly, there needs to be a commercial answer to all these fucks recruiting bottomfeeders into the English schools. We must have alternatives. We could ask Asian Americans to step up to the plate but then they’d rather say “Nooo I’m AMERICAN first” and then shit on the country and people they came from.

  59. http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20160727000478

    “I sort of look at Jazzy as an onion — that on the surface you see her as such a shallow party girl, but she’s not,” Tan said. “There are forces in society that are driving her to do this.”

    One societal force depicted in the book is the infidelity of men. Jazzy resists and turns down her society’s idea that married men can cheat on their wives and have secret families with their mistresses.

    To avoid this heartache, Jazzy swears off Asian men and hopes to snag a foreigner who is not in tune with society’s acceptance of cheating.”

    This might have been true twenty, thirty years ago. Even then, secret families and mistresses were the pure domain of the rich. Today, female infidelity is more common than the male one (apart from prostitution) just because women will not be punished the same way, or treated as harshly as a man in the same situation. They also have more opportunity.

    Ultimately, it is pointless to attack the women for their myths. The problem is the men. The problem is the CULTURE. You have a problem, when you have a culture that tells boys that they are worth nothing without money, and that they have to pay for sex one way or another, and that the female orgasm is mainly fakery that magically becomes real when Singaporean women have sex with a white guy. You have a problem when your CULTURE tells the men they have small penis and then they tell it to each other to drag each other down like crabs in the bucket. (Big claws they compare with one another… but small penis. Every other crab in the world has a larger penis than these crabs, therefore they can only buy women. LMAO.)

    It’s such a shameful history of lack of balls in Singapore that the new generation will likely not even talk about it. The shame is too great, the defeat is clear. The change happened not because people fought for it but because the younger were simply allowed to evolve and adapt. There will be no rebuttals against the new “SPG” book just because there is nothing to rebut. Even today it seems that the young are going towards the “twilight” model…

    For the generation caught in between the old ways and a new ideal that never came, the tragedy is great. Being caught in between two worlds is a great disadvantage. You will be hated and scorned by the one you leave, distrusted and loathed by the one that finally comes to be, understood by neither.

    You can spend all the time thinking of the whys and the hows, maybe even imbibing the Doctrines of people who seemingly have the answer, but which they merely regurgitated from victim’s studies. It would have been more useful to accept the world as it is, to accept that just to see it for what it is makes you apart from it, apart from every friend, every family who never had the courage or the clarity to see what is clear before their eyes, and then to relentless use every weakness its denizens have against them to gain power and advantage, because in the end that is really what it boils down to.

    The white man in Singapore will always be seen as some kind of mythical demigod because the structure of the society affords him this, in his wages, in his position, in his social mobility, in his advertising. The humble, wiry slit-eyed darkly tanned Singaporean who remains true to his wife and who labors for his children’s education will always be painted as the misogynistic wife beating infidel with many mistresses and who gambles away his money, because he has no voice, and the people making him a villain simply hate him too much, because of who he represents to them: the powerless and uneducated Asian man with no social standing, who can only eat the abuse in order to survive.

    This whole of Asia – even the miracle cities – was built on the backs of the poor, the starving, the humble, the prostitutes and the opium smokers. Where did our engineers, our doctors, our bankers and our lawyers come from? Did they appear out of thin air? They were borne from an industry and a resilience in the face of long decades of adversity they have forgotten and never experienced. They give themselves little credit. It will be herculean but the comfortable cannot be helped. My people are the strugglers, and the fighters. What can we do to create a spark that turns into a fire?

  60. @Max Sorry Max, old boy, you need come out of your Disney world and deal with the real facts you failed to mention.
    You can look for yourself online and it will tell you that AF/WM are the most common pairing than any other racial group.
    Their are relatively few Asian Women dating Black Men if any. The other races you mentioned tend to date inside their race.

  61. @sigfried what real world experience do you have regarding world travel? Staying in an isolated bubble in your country and looking at online posts and reading online material doesnt count for shit other than breed delusions about white supremacy for insecure men.

    Things are changing around the world whether you like it or not.

  62. @king fair point, but ive met many that are not like that, just normal people like you and me, and especially the ones that have integrated themselves into the local culture and respect the local people do not fall into such a stereotype. Idont doubt for a second the people you say exist as i have not come across them or even white men who have the same white supremacist mentality as Sigfried. Im very lucky in that regard, but the fact is such a view needs to be balanced by the fact that there are always exceptions and the dangee about thinking about it too much can lead one to be prone to negative biasing.

  63. @senge the alternative is to open the hiring process to everyone who is not white, and instead screen for desirable character traits and references that befit the role of a teacher… its quite simple actually. I dont think excluding white people is the answer but making things equal for everyone regardless of their race or nationality will remove such privileges that enable such corrupt behavior.

  64. I agree that would be good and ideal, but it wont occur because these schools in Asia exist as a direct result of intervention and the “freedom” provided by Asian elites. Exclusive whiteness is part of their branding and image.

    Countering the kind of toxicity they promote requires real, workable alternatives from the ground up.

    To be clear, the tendency is to focus too much on sexual privilege and exploitation. We should build a stronger foundation based on self worth and competitive competency.

    I propose:

    1. Seed society with alternatives to the white English teacher syndrome, if the teachers are skeezy and dubious. Their only advantage is their accent. If you systematically teach the proper accent at an affordable price the sleazy people lose a great advantage. Technology and volunteer labor can be used.

    2. Economic pressures on human behavior must be kept in mind. The people who can make choices are also the people with the freedom to make choice. Therefore the job is to make high quality alternatives as accessible as possible for the people who want them.

    3. High quality choices are of the most value to people with less choices. So we have but to make these choices affordable to those with less.

    4. They must know why we do this. Therefore it will not be only about the competition over the pussy.

  65. @ King

    But, In your opinion and experience has there been progress?

    Of course! If people like Frank Chin are just “venting”, I would say it’s working. Part of the advantage of “venting” is that people are constructing a socio-political language to describe their frustrations and anger. It empowers those who lack the vocabulary to articulate what they have been experiencing and feeling for so long.

    The Civil Rights Movement didn’t succeed because people worked harder, pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, or even by winning court cases. It worked by people turning out en masse and protesting for change. People saw them as troublemakers disrupting society and making a whole lot of noise over nothing.

    But in the end, all that unhappiness, anger, ranting, and negativity paid off by forcing change. Keeping a quiet, happy face, which is what the Model Minority stereotype is all about, would have left things just the way they were.

  66. Yes, I do think almost all white men in Asia are “losers”.

    They couldn’t get a white girl in their home country and thus flew thousands of miles/kilometers to a foreign country where they likely don’t speak the language just to have access to self-hating Asian women who worship anything white.

    I’m sure if I was a white male loser, I would also run away to Asia to teach English and have a chance at getting a woman.

  67. Just think about it. Women and sex are huge motivators for men and it has been throughout hundreds of years of history.

    What would drive a white man to leave the country he grew up in, the country where he is a majority, he speaks the language, he knows the culture and leave that all behind to flee to a very foreign land? Because of the self-hating Asian women who worship any white man.

    Why else are there so many white male English teachers in Asia? They are merely sexpat trash. No white woman gave them the time of day back in their Western country.

  68. @patrickkenny thats not really a fair statement to make, in my experience the real irony is that you are more likely to get hired in asia by a caucasian male HR manager as opposed to a local HR manager who worships the ground white people walk on.

    Cant assume all white people are bad or this or that.

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