Anonymous Ad Hominem Fighting Thread/ Open Topic Thread

From my experience on a previous blog, it was always my goal that people debate things rather than type-and-run. Having dealt with lots of people who liked to insult without accountability, I wrote this in September of 2008:

This is an activist blog, so we value real-time communication. If you’ve got personal beef, don’t hide behind the internet; talk it over and see where you may have commonalities. We’ll be setting up a conference line to eliminate the negative influence of internet warriors.

In the latest round, we’ve been trying to set up a podcast, but it seems like there are just too many people who prefer internet flaming and attacking people anonymously, and it’s threatening to ruin every thread on his blog. Not everyone is guilty of this. Some have stepped up. But I’ve always had faith in the guys who have. It’s clearly obvious from history that speaking in real time is FAR superior to creating relationships and getting the main ideas out there. It’s self-evident that those who CHAMPION ideas aren’t afraid to step up and represent them. It’s hard to take a “revolutionary” seriously if he can’t literally raise his voice.

BUT I’m a realist. I know that much of the commentators on this blog are and will always be anonymous, and maybe people have to get some steam off from time to time. So if you want to get that steam off, sound off here. I don’t want this stuff on the other threads. Take it here, and duke it out here. This is the place for all that. Other threads are off limits–light jabs and soft insults are still allowed on all threads (as they are in Presidential debates), but pure ad hominem attacks aren’t. If you’re an internet warrior who won’t step up and you want to do some pure ad hominem fighting, invite your fellow warriors to come here and engage in some good typing.

This thread will still be moderated. No “anonymous coward” attacks on those who stand up, no racist and sexist bullshit. There will still be limits on your expression if the fighting gets ridiculous.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

Edit: 8/17/2013: This is also the “Open Topic” thread. If there’s something that I haven’t blogged about that is irrelevant to other threads, feel free to discuss it here. If it’s interesting and relevant to Asian American intellectualism, I’ll do my best to create a new thread.

1,325 thoughts on “Anonymous Ad Hominem Fighting Thread/ Open Topic Thread

  1. I did want t say that this isn’t an exclusive club for internet warriors though. Anyone can come here, so don’t anyone feel left out…

  2. Moroboshi, you can move 99% of your comments here from now on, since nothing you say has any substance or meaning to it, you dumb fuck Status-Quo Lobbyist.

  3. @Eric, I’m still waiting for that Sock Puppet you’re going to post under, “Moroboshi” is white.” I unlike you have posted only under one name. Kind of sad people will create more than one name to get people thinking their ideas have more validity. Sad.

  4. amusing… i thought Raguel the warhammer bitch would be the first to post in this thread.

    Eric, i think by becoming the first to post in the ad hominem fighting thread. you have just become the first official internet warrior of bigwowo.

  5. Let me summarise the last week of discussion on BigWowo in one post:

    Fuck all you faggot kobold Warhammer-playing, FBI informant white imposter blowjob-giving, internet warrior dumb fuck status-quo-lobbying, coward wannabe white wannabe black bitch-ass motherfuckers.

    Oh, and if there are still any ladies reading: you are skanks and sellout whores.

    Sorry if I missed anyone.

  6. LOL man that’s how its gonna be? I’m just the kind of guy who hates all those bullshit formalities regarding sequence and stuff — you know, how like everyone fights over the bill at the end of a meal, or how during family dinners nobody wants to eat the last dumpling…

    I’m just like fuck it — you wanna pay? You pay? Nobody’s gonna eat it (cause the last one doesn’t get married or something like that)? It’s cool — bachelor life it is hahaha.

    Motherfuckers want to internet fight? Come at me bro.

  7. Moroboshi, if you were really Asian, why would you say all this shit that hurts Asians? You buttress up stereotypes as if they were facts, you support the status-quo even though it is heavily prejudiced against Asian males, you blame Asian males for the discrimination they’ve faced (although I read a comment where CavScout seems to do the same, ha, more self-hatred than Samuel L. Jackson’s character in Django — glad I’m not in the gay-ass fucking US military…). No self-respecting Asian American man would say the shit you do. You have an agenda, and that agenda happens to make more sense if you happened to be Caucasian behind that screen.

    Not that I need to spell it out for you. You are either trolling as a fake Asian, or you are very, VERY lost.

  8. BigWOWO

    You can contact these authors for podcast/email interviews, may create more varied debate

    On asian men and black women:

    Christelyn Karazin No email, but has a facebook page

    http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/online-helps-black-women-and-asian-men-hook-the-heck-up-already/

    Paul Chung an ABC who interviewed author Kevin Kwan

    https://twitter.com/paulchung91

    http://asiasociety.org/blog/asia/interview-crazy-rich-asians-teach-author-kevin-kwan-his-love-fiction

    white girl in china married to a mainland chinese native

    http://www.speakingofchina.com/tag/white-girl-in-a-chinese-american-world/#.UgTJ3qz4Lv0

    ‘Want to continue the conversation on love, family and relationships in China? I welcome questions, comments, interviews, guest posts or even just a note to say “Ni Hao!”

    Send me an e-mail: jocelyn (at) speakingofchina.com

  9. Heres the contact page of Michelle Guo, the San Francisco-born ABC who married a mainland Chinese native,

    http://itsmichelleguo.wordpress.com/contact/

    ‘Do you have specific questions for me on digital marketing strategies, living in China, or navigating an intercultural relationship? I’d love to answer if I can. Just send me a message using the form below!’

  10. This was a very good idea. Now fucktard Moroboshi will be forced to spend his time in here, since nothing he says is a NON-ad hominem attack!!!

  11. Since this is the vitriolic, cathartic portion of the thread, I’ll just share my true feelings on the US military here. You’ve got to be a retarded moron to join the military. Lets start with the Asian specific reasons. Danny Chen is an example, and even CavScout attests that its hard for Asians in the military — its a racist culture that is partially due to the fact that Asia is perpetually seen as outsiders. Furthermore, Asia has been the target of several wars in the last century, and Asia, when those disgusting military soldiers bunker down, is the site of their sexual exploitation.

    As I mentioned above, the reason why I oppose IR disparity is also because it affects us beyond the relationship. How can anyone respect a group of men who have their own ethnic women walk away from them? Nobody can. Therefore, I equate the IR disparity as also a SOURCE of why Asian men are DENIED LEADERSHIP POSITIONS — because other men cannot respect Asian men because of the fundamental emotional nature that the IR disparity causes. And so it is. Me personally, if people treat me with hostility, my primal urge is to respond with violence, which I suppress. But it is obvious this dynamic is not helpful. Still, even though I do not commit acts of violence, it brings me joy to see when individuals who I associate with Western hegemony die.

    Back on point — You’ve got to be a fucking moron if you join the US military and are Asian. First off, you’ve got to be a fucking moron to join the US military in the first place. America will be waging a war against Al-Qaeda and militant Islam for the rest of our natural lives. This is due to America’s bullshit hegemonistic policies, and is well deserved — as Rev. Wright said once — “The Chickens have come home to Roost.” Well, America, you reap what you sow. Anyways, anyone who wants to willing enter a warzone is a fucking ‘tard.

    Plus, as an Asian, you get no respect for joining the military from other Asians and FOBs. Want to know why? Asia has constantly been a target for the US military, and thousands of Asians have died at the hands of US weapons. Yeah, I’m aware that the US defeated Japan and thank god for that. But the general strategic emphasis is that the US military is in the Pacific to prevent Asian greatness. Asia should exist as a coherent Pan-Asiatic entity, ideally. The US military prevents this end. The bottomline is thousands of Asians have died at the hands of the US military, and strategically is against the interests of greater Asia. So, in response, you don’t deserve respect if you join the military. Just another version of a sellout.

    Furthermore, you don’t get any real benefits from joining the military. Full scholarship via GI bill? LOL. You can get that shit from alternative ways, like doing well in school. You’ve got to be a real moron to put your life on the line, for a cause that only lines the pockets of the Haliburton elite and pushes forth the agendas of the Western hegemonists. You are the very definition of the ultimate bitch when you join the military. Have fun wanking to your poster porn, you fucking losers.

    Also, if you’ve ever had a military recruiter come up to you, and you told them something that let them know you had something going for you in life already, they’d slink away with their tails between their legs. Why? Because those bitches know that the military is a shit deal for only the most downtrodden. FACE THE FACTS — US military skills DONT TRANSLATE TO CIVILIAN SKILLS!!! Unless you want to be a cop, although you’ll end up as a cop with PTSD hahaha. So figure it out you fucking Jarheads, you can get tough with the Taliban, but in the grander scheme of things you are just a sorry ass bitch.

  12. @ Eric

    I agree America generally ignores the average Asian guy. As they say, being an average guy in America doesn’t cut it. For an Asian guy in America, the cards are stack against them even more if they are seen as “average” or below.

    Danny Chen enrollment in the American Military wasn’t a mistake. Asians like him just don’t know what they are getting into. Can you blame him, when the Asian American community is oblivious to so many things besides earning money and going to school? The world is very Machiavellian out there.

  13. I didn’t think I’d get pulled onto the ad hom thread, but since this thread is for people who duck out in real life, I guess that’s how it goes. Since you’re insulting our veterans, I may have a word or two to add.

    So you think Danny Chen is a “retarded moron” because he joined the military. Wow, wow, and wow. I’m assuming your internet attack applies to Eric Shinseki and Dan Inouye as well?

    I’ll bet most Asian guys out of the military probably wouldn’t run from a podcast or a challenge to stand up for themselves verbally. I know quite a few, and they’re tough men who have a good sense of purpose and honor. That’s one “real benefit” that some could probably gain by joining the military. Certainly, it’s not money, but it’s character, something that one can’t buy.

    I mean, I thought you were biting the hand that feeds you when you were talking about going to Asia and using your American Westernism like a business card. But attacking people who sacrifice their lives for the freedom and prosperity that you flaunt? I’m sorry, but that’s just beyond wrong.

  14. Well I guess that’s where we disagree then. You think the US military is an instrument for good? I don’t thats all. I put this in here out of respect for your other threads. I think it’s a foolish choice to make; plus the US military is an instrument for Western dominance. If there is a conflict in Asia involving China, I would feel happy not to be involved in that conflict.

    Yeah, there were poorly choiced words, but this is after all just a blog, and this is cathartic thread, right? I can respect that you disagree, but you should just know the extent of of far my Anti-Americanism goes. In fact, I will say this instead: I condemned Asian Americans who chose to go into the military and for that I apologize. But I do not think the rewards are worth it, there are other ways to build your “character”, and finally — you are an instrument of USA’s bid for global dominance.

    Lets just state that you and I disagree HEAVILY on this point, and I respect your opinion, but I stand by my poorly heavily invective filled rationale. I did place this comment in this “attack section” for a reason though — if commentary is censored here then I mean… no reason to say what we really think then, right?

  15. Chr: “Danny Chen enrollment in the American Military wasn’t a mistake. Asians like him just don’t know what they are getting into. Can you blame him, when the Asian American community is oblivious to so many things besides earning money and going to school? The world is very Machiavellian out there. – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-206033

    True, I do not think many people, let alone Asian americans, know what they are getting into when they join the US military. Dealing with US recruiters is like hardcore negotiations with your life. They will underplay the amount of racism that you experience in the military.

    Furthermore, I would like to state Byron, that I AM FURIOUS with what I believe to be a COVERUP of the death of Danny Chen, as I do not believe that it was a suicide — there have been pieces of evidence that point to a HOMICIDE, which of course could never, ever be properly investigated due to collateral damage due to recruitment. I am probably helping Asian Americans by dissuading them from entering such a racist and meaningless institution.

  16. Wait, you equate speaking on a podcast as a form of BRAVERY!??! Maybe it’s just not in my best interest to have others hear my voice, especially because of what I have posted here.

  17. I respectfully disagree with you on these issues Byron, although I recognize your outrage at such controversial invective. I will apologize to vets that I have offended by my overly emotional Anti-US military post above.

    However, I will not retract the meaning and reasons behind those statements as false. The US military is an organization I am proud to have no association with.

  18. Finally, I will refer anyone interested in this argument to this man:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8rbHwMXMT8

    BigWOWO, you state that the military exists to help engender honor and purpose in its recruits.

    I refer to this statement made by the vet in the video:
    “That organization does not exist… to give you money for school. The organization exists… to assert the political will of the United States Government against other people, by force of arms.”

    “They’re not sending you out there to be a hero, they’re sending you out there… to be a bully.”

    THIS WAS SPOKEN BY A VET with a long standing career in the military.

    I am against Western hegemony, in all its facets, and I do not sugar coat what I see acting towards this entity and what acts against it.
    – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2012/09/first-person-account-of-the-trial-of-specialist-ryan-offutt-by-mitchell-zhang/#comment-206090

  19. “I respectfully disagree with you on these issues”

    That doesn’t sound like anonymous ad hominem fighting words to me.
    I poop on your FACE!!!!

  20. Ah, don’t you love how far the IR gender divide takes you, when you finally understand all the reasons behind it?

    Zero-sum / zero-determinism breeds zero-sum / zero-determinism.

  21. King, if you really don’t like what I’m saying, debate me — here and now. No holds barred. Lets go.

    Rev. Wright is on my side, FYI.

  22. You can debate me along any lines; if your argument is really better than mine, then I am not unwilling to reconsider statements and ideas that I have made.

    When people stated that it might not feasible to relocate abroad, I listened. Because it was a realistic logistical concern that I was trying to tackle but I’ll admit still has much work to be done regarding this. If you think I’m wrong about the military, and refute every one of my points with reason, then thats that. If you think I’m wrong about Western hegemony, then prove it, and win over whatever audience we have. The point of this section was emotional exchange, so here it is.

  23. The US military drives a wedge between all the other Asian countries. It’s plain to see this.

    And that is one reason why I dislike the US military. This is what I mean by “loyalty” to Asia. Loyalty means loyal in all facets.

    Although I certainly do not believe in any means the supremacy of race or not — race will always be an arbitrary tool — but if others use this tool, then I got no choice now do I. If one guy plays the zero-sum game, then everyone’s got to play the zero sum game. And white guys, by perpetuating IR disparity, ultimately are definitely playing the zero-sum game.

  24. FUCK ASIAN WOMEN. sluts. WHERE DE BLACK BROWN WHITE WOMEN , we need more hapas. race doesnt exist ,only the human race , im a rainbow warrior bring it

    FUCK CHINA ,FUCKING COMMIES USA GODDAMN USA WINS THE FUCKING DAY. ill buy that for a trillion dollars, keep that shit printing . VOTE OBAMA and i aint black im 100% human

    DANNY CHEN, WASNT KILLED, HIS HEAD GOT IN THE WAY OF THAT SOLDIERS GUN

    FRANK CHIN? WHO THE FUCK IS FRANK CHIN, YOU FUCKING WHINERS SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT RACISM, WE LIVE IN A RACE FREE WORLD,ITS LONELY AT THE TOP , AND IM SO FUCKING HIGH UP I CANT SMELL THE SHIT FROM MY OWN ASS

    LETS CREATE A UNITED ASIA – ONE WHERE ASIANS ARE HOLDING HANDS, whats that pozhal? you dont like chinese food? FUCK YOU YOU KOREAN KPOP ANDROGENOUS METRONOME METROPOLIS MUTHAFUCKA

    yeah so i fucked this asian girl, then i fucked this white girl, then i fucked this black girl, then i woke up pillow between my legs, it was brown. shit brown. pua works man look ma no hands

    SO I FOUND THIS BOOK ON KEVIN KWAN. WTF NO COMMENTS ON MY KEVIN KWAN THREAD, FUCK ALLA YOUSE ILLITERATE MUTHAFUCKS GET THE FUCK OFF MY BLOG . goddamn asian literature every single books either about a hapa some asian bitch with a white guy, amy chan , amy tang, some asian bitch fucking a white guy or a white guy saves the day. why the fuck do i read this shit . why the fuck do i PAY to read this shit. why the fuck do i PAY to read this shit, write reviews then ANONYMOUS MUTHAFUCKS spam the shit outta them with PUA talk. muthafuckers. talk to the hand

    A FOB BUT NO ORDINARY FOB . MASTER OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE READ SHAKESPEARE TIED BEHIND MY ASS while i take a shit all over youse head

    YOU DONT GET IT, WHITE PEOPLE HAVE FEELINGS TOO. YOU PEOPLE ARE ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT RACISM BUT YOU ARE LIKE THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK OR BROWN OR WHITE.

    AGENDA WHAT AGENDA ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, THERE NO AGENDA HERE, NO MATRIX OR NWO OR BIGFOOT YOU PUA ANTI-HOLLYWOOD MUTHAFUCKA. IM FULLY ASIAN LOOK I CAN SPELL ASIAN – A – Z – N . , YOU OVERSENSITIVE SLANTY EYED MUTHA WHOOPS I MEAN YOU ASIAN PEOPLE, LIKE ME, AN ASIAN , A PERSON, I THINK , MAYBE.

    ITS MY RIGHT AS A WHITE SMALL DICKED BOY TO FUCK YOUR ASIAN WOMEN TROLL YOUR ASIAN BLOG AND COMPLAIN ABOUT RACISM. I WANT MY CAKE AND EAT IT TOO. I AM THE EATER OF SOULS. YOUR SOUL TASTES LIKE CAKE. I EAT THE PUSSY OF ASIAN WOMEN AND THEY WORSHIP THE SHRINE OF MY TINY WHITE PECKER. CRUISING ON THE PRIVILEGED WHITE DICK OF MY FATHERS, MY FATHERS FATHERS DICK, AND MY FATHERS FATHERS MOTHERS DICK.

  25. @ Bint:

    the fact that you spent a considerable amount of time looking up all those animal-sex sites might suggest a lot more about you than it does about white people, I’m afraid.

  26. As I mentioned above, the reason why I oppose IR disparity is also because it affects us beyond the relationship. How can anyone respect a group of men who have their own ethnic women walk away from them? Nobody can. Therefore, I equate the IR disparity as also a SOURCE of why Asian men are DENIED LEADERSHIP POSITIONS — because other men cannot respect Asian men because of the fundamental emotional nature that the IR disparity causes.

    Hahaha! Balderdash!!! That’s not the reason!

  27. “How’s race in brazil?”

    Spoken to some Brazilians, and their view of Japanese Brazilians is combination of fear, envy and awe. They say that the Japanese in Brazil are great businessmen, ruthless innovators and perfectionists, especially when it comes to farming and harvesting certain crops like coconuts.

  28. @ES

    You may think so. Honestly, I don’t even know those exist until

    http://www.bigwowo.com/2012/11/racism-between-asians-and-blacks/#comment-205331

    Gia pops up in that thread and I just browsed a couple of minutes “Oh My!” (Not sure you know who), that’s sickening. I made a list and showed up here.

    I’ll be a moron if I believe all White men practice such an act. I’ll be an idiot if I believe the list will serve as a stronghold to fight off all impression on Western men.

    Even more so, you’ll be a freaking idiot dead wrong if you believe I enjoy sex with animals. Wait, is this thread Ad Hominem? Anyway, I also used self-hominem, so that will equalize the effect. Maybe I should have deleted. Done!

    The fundamental differences between you and me OR more accurately me and the White people is when it comes to dealing with such a negative portrayal of entire race, the sense of reception is different; in a way what a white person would feel is “vicarious” while I myself have a “visceral” sense.

    The foot binding, the squinty eyes, short penises, every time those racial slurs, denigrating acts appear in media, news, advertisement, social gathering, party, the most extent any person could feel is “This is so wrong. They should have known. They should have checked. They really are idiots.” that’s the maximum altitude one’s sympathy could reach to. But the feeling goes deeper and cut deep to those whose ethnicity lies in the same racial zone as those victimized/ridiculed in an act.

    Does the negative portrayal of Asian Americans/Asians in media as “asexual villians” serve as a window of opportunity to learn how Asians in general behave and act?

    One with a certain ability of calculation and logics would know for sure that the “asexual” part lost in his calculation of 1.4 billions in China. Nonetheless, if just a mere description of AA as “asexual” serve as a selling ticket and wins millions of white audiences’ warm hearts and self-righteousness, that will serve their purpose.

    Coming back to our discussion of “Animals list”, I for sure know that they don’t encompass entire Caucasian races as animal-sex loving race. But just wanted to point out that everything some of our younger generation worshipping Caucasians, the common perceptions of white races are not always what you think they are. You always have to have a balanced point-of-view rather than dissing one’s own race and worshipping the other race. But if my list serves as a pre-check point to our community before they go overboard completely dissing “I wish I were White”, my purpose is served.

  29. This might not relate to the above post, but I’d rather write it down here.

    When I said I like King’s post, I’m neither hobnobbing with old timers nor supporting all of his comments. I like some of his logics, his contribution to the discussion, his reasoning and after all his tone of the post. But that doesn’t mean that I agree with all of his comments.

    When I agree with some of the posts by our Once-upon-a-time Sasaki Ken, I like his passion of embracing our Asian roots, uniting each other, changing the perception of westerners. But that doesn’t indicate I’m all for him. His tone, his lack of logics, leapfrogging reasoning at times failed a big time. But I was somehow associated with Sasaki Ken by some.

    When I agree with some of Eric’s post, don’t put me under the category of “Ericksonian” Anti-American bible. He has some good points, he just has to tame his tone down, come with more reasoning rather than posting up those 5 minutes Lego talk dubbed by some bots talking behind.

    The other particular thing I found we should be more tolerant of is “doing podcast” which I’m not against with.

    Yes there are benefits of doing podcast, live discussion, live interaction and such. But there are also benefits of writing your thoughts out, with your logics and reasoning, and some supporting evidences without getting hindered by conversation, time constraint and such. There are gives and takes in each venue of discussion. Yes, in podcast, it’s more polite and more interactive but handicapped at supporting evidences some of which exemplify “A picture is worth a thousand words” You can literally talk a thousand words in podcast, but a picture will give a flashback within a second.

    Written discussions also have some of its handicap because one is more prone to insulting and denigrating others without absorbing other’s ideas and reasoning. It’s batshitting, not discussing.

    But if our topic of the day is “speaking ability” test, then I’m for it, if you can’t do podcast, you’re automatically out of the league, like you’re calling out for Helen Keller or Stephen Hawking.

    I remember one time when there’s “N” poster whose birthplace is Hong Kong, studied/immigrated? in US, and currently working in Australia offered to write up 2000 words essay to talk about “British colonialism; benefits or parasitic” something like that. Since he’s not willing to do podcast, he’s gone. Neither I’m supporting “N” here nor warm-heartedly missing him here. But the idea of “podcast or not” is not only damaging someone else’s idea but also hindering new comers with different ideas and point-of-views.

    Bigwowo is a site owner, for that we all are thankful for, making this venue available for any AA participation in contemporary AA experience in America. Either it could evolve into more mutually beneficial venue for any incoming AA ideas and experiences, Or it could dive into a conclave where a few select of AA with certain ideas upholds the notion that anybody who’s not willing to do Podcast are outcast and should not attempt at further discussion. For the time being, I’m seeing the trajectory of this blog fluctuating. Sooner or later, it’s gonna evolve or take a nosedive between Asian Americans, especially AA males depends on the topic of the discussion and who are we arguing with.

    So for those engaging in podcast on “PUA” in this coming Sunday, I’m for it. Probably give it a try since I never participated in “PUA” discussion either.

  30. That’s an interesting point. If you saw a chinese guy fucking a donkey, you’d be like “Oh all chinese guys are zoophile freaks — haw de haw haw.” But here we have a ton of links of white guys who does that — and nobody ever thinks to stereotype (theyre just weirdos, who cares). Why is that? Maybe stereotypes are only made for minorities?

  31. Rag and Moroboshi realized they had nothing to say that wasn’t ad hominem, and didn’t want to buy into the fact that this thread was made for their stupid asses. So they just left —- hahahaha

  32. How’s race in brazil?

    Well, I wish there were Brazilian members to answer accurately, but I will tell you what I learned from a book during an anthropology course.

    They seem to view race very similarly to how some Caribbean and Latin American countries do (well, they are Latin after all). I learned that the reason they have relatively large German and Japanese communities is that the ruling elite had an immigration policy that was trying to encourage the “whitening” of the country (according to that book). I did find a wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_Brazil#Racial_and_ethnic_theories

    All that being said, they, like the Caribbean, do not treat race in the way Americans do. Not to say that there isn’t racism, but “it’s complicated”. For example, where I’m from, there’s a common saying about our African genetic heritage which goes like, “He/She who doesn’t have Dingo, has Mandingo.” In the Dominican Republic, the saying is “Everyone has a Black hiding behind his ear.” Thus, I’m not surprised to read that Brazil also has such a saying:

    In fact, there is a saying in Brazil that everyone has “one foot in the kitchen”–meaning an ancestor who was an African slave.

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/looking-in-the-cultural-mirror/201112/what-does-the-brazilian-census-tell-us-about-race

    To me, the fact that we even have to have sayings like those point at some sort of “self hate.” The racism in these places often manifests itself in terms of a standard of beauty. In the DR, for example, you’d almost think that there are no Black people, because so many people who are dark skinned label themselves “Indian” so they don’t have to say they’re Black.

    I didn’t even think about this stuff until soaked myself into American culture through every day life and university. I guess that’s one of the positives you can give to Americans– they are having this conversation explicitly.

  33. “But here we have a ton of links of white guys who does that — and nobody ever thinks to stereotype (theyre just weirdos, who cares). Why is that? Maybe stereotypes are only made for minorities?”

    That’s exactly it. White dudes as a group, simply never get negatively stereotyped. Even though it the favorite weapon to cut down non-whites.

    By the way, I’m suprised there is ZERO discussion about the collection of douchebags that is known as the LA band “Day Above Ground”.

  34. Well AL, welcome to minority-ville. The interesting thing is that I have experienced life as both the majority and as a minority. I remember seeing minorities in certain situations, and probably felt the way white people feel when they see a minority as well. It’s all about context. It’s truly a different, interesting experience — being part of the majority. Can you imagine — everyone is a potential date target?? It’s pretty awesome.

  35. Nottyboy

    Maybe Raguel is in the penalty box cooling off, or if what someone said before is true, maybe he’s trying to hack into your emails. I know I changed all my passwords just to cover my bases. – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-206628

    That dumbass can’t hack shit. He’s just some stupid nerd with no life that enjoys feeling like an Internet authority. He randomly guessed Eric’s age. It doesn’t take a genius to guess that most guys here are in their 20s or 30s.

    Also I use fake email addresses to post comments. Any of my real email accounts have google 2 factor authorization which generates real time random codes on my smartphone that I must type in to log into my email account. Good luck hacking that lol

  36. He definitively called out both me and IndieKing’s age. He knew about EPA. It was freaky.

  37. I prefer to be overcautious anyway. I already had someone hack into my account a couple of years ago. They deleted some meaningful emails I had, and may have stolen my credit card number (a suspicious donation was made to some shady org).

    I don’t need something similar to happen again just because someone is pissed off about some internet spat.

    All that being said, I think his perspective adds to the diversity of views. I like having opposing views but I can do without the personal attacks and the racist BS.

  38. What’s EPA ?

    I can’t believe that pathetic rags still hasn’t posted yet lol. He must be busy fapping it with goblins and hobbits.

  39. @ Bint:

    no need to get your knickers in a twist bro, I was in no way being serious about you enjoying sex with animals. Twas a joke.

    Regarding the podcasting thing, I don’t think there is any real pressure on commenters here to do a podcast if they don’t want to. The constant challenges to do the PUA podcast were really just part of the dick-swinging contest between Raguel and various others. That said, if you want to get involved in the podcast, contact Bigwowo as he is the go-between. It’s probably going to be Sunday afternoon US time. If you have something substantive to contribute, I’m sure you are more than welcome.
    Regarding the absence of “N”, I think he’s just busy, which he mentions from time to time. He’ll show up again.

  40. Haha
    I just checked out the Julia Oh thread, and found out why this one was created, seriously where are Moroboshi and Raguel? This thread was designed for you guys.

  41. You want Ad Hominem? Here:

    MOROBOSHI YOU BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITCH.

    YOU SEE NOW YOU WERE THE CAUSE OF THIS ENTIRE AD HOMINEM THREAD!!!!!

    The world is at peace without your pathetic self fouling things up hahahahahhaa

  42. This corner was actually for all the bullshit a certain childish, spineless and racist Keebler Elf was spouting. Funny how the output of this silvan fairy character has been reduced by at least 90%.

  43. He’s such a funny and pathetic guy. Can you imagine what kind of a loser in real life he is? He constantly has his nose stuck up bigwowo and kings ass. You can see it in his demeanor always seeking their approval and pretending to be on an equal intellectual level.

    You see, rags believes in the stupidest premises and holds his opinion as gospel but he can’t stand losing. So he has to literally lie and fabricate his way out of every argument.

    Nottyboy, I doubt rags is truly racist. He’s just taking a jab at Puerto Ricans because he’s too stupid to debate properly. He’s built up this huge Internet godlike persona that he feels he must live up to. He doesn’t want to lose so he makes racist jabs. He’s desperate.

    I could never take any insult or criticism seriously from an anonymous Internet warrior that is obsessed with dungeons and dragons. “Kobolds” lol. He’s like Sheldon from Big Bang theory. Probably socially handicapped and autistic.

  44. Nottyboy. Where are you located? Puerto Rican from New York? Wy are you on asian American blogs?

  45. He’s such a funny and pathetic guy. Can you imagine what kind of a loser in real life he is? He constantly has his nose stuck up bigwowo
    and kings ass. You can see it in his demeanor always seeking their approval and pretending to be on an equal intellectual level.
    You see, rags believes in the stupidest premises and holds his opinion as gospel but he can’t stand losing. So he has to literally lie
    and fabricate his way out of every argument. .

    I do notice that tendency. He tends to make pronouncements that he is then unwilling to back up when challenged, though he seems to be well informed on some topics.

    Nottyboy, I doubt rags is truly racist. He’s just taking a jab at Puerto Ricans because he’s too stupid to debate properly. He’s built
    up this huge Internet godlike persona that he feels he must live up to. He doesn’t want to lose so he makes racist jabs. He’s desperate.
    I could never take any insult or criticism seriously from an anonymous Internet warrior that is obsessed with dungeons and dragons.
    “Kobolds” lol. He’s like Sheldon from Big Bang theory. Probably socially handicapped and autistic.

    Well, have you ever seen “Do The Right Thing”? If you have, do you remember the film’s climax with Radio Rahim and the pizza shop’s owner? The owner, for most of the movie, did not seem “really racist”—that is until he lost his temper to such a degree that the N-word came out.

    I am not going to say I’m not guilty of racism, because I think most of us have racial prejudices ingrained in us—even the most reasonable members here. Yet, the difference is that most of us will not go as low as saying something racially offensive because in the context of this blog everyone knows it’s wrong. If you’re posting on this blog, and you’re not a closet HBD’er, you are not going to make insults based on race or ethnicity.

  46. Still I don’t like this whole “embrace your racism” thing — we still should be actively fighting it. Like that song Avenue Q —

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbud8rLejLM

    Honestly, I don’t think it is benign. Stereotypes are not harmless, and based on my explanation of what I feel racism’s purpose is —> resource acquisition. Anyways, even if we all have the propensity to generalize, we should still try to oppose racism overall. There’s no “understanding” in acknowledging racism.

  47. Here’s my semi-racist comment for the day:

    Everyone may be a little racist, but everyone knows only WHITE RACISM actually hurts people…

  48. Eric Wrote: You guys want a loving AF/AM relationship example? If it weren’t for anonymity reasons, I could have done one with me and my previous gf. We only broke up because of distance reasons, and we still talk frequently. She still loves me — the reason I am successful in long term relationships is because — thanks to PUA (yeah bitches I said PUA HAHAHAHAHA), there was one important precedent that was set with that.

    Yeah right. In other words, this is a girl you’ve probably never met. My guess it is some girl overseas trying to getting money from you. Its probably a dude using his hot girlfriend’s pictures to get money. Dude, oldest trick in the book PUA guys fall for all the time. If you met, I bet you never slept with her. You broke up because you ran out of money to send her. Long term relationships my ass! It’s so easy to profile someone like you and guess what type of lifestyle he’s living. You haven’t had any “real” long term relationships. Funny how you make fun of Dungeons and Dragons fantasy world when you live the dating life fantasy yourself.

  49. “In other words, this is a girl you’ve probably never met. My guess it is some girl overseas trying to getting money from you. Its probably a dude using his hot girlfriend’s pictures to get money. Dude, oldest trick in the book PUA guys fall for all the time. If you met, I bet you never slept with her. You broke up because you ran out of money to send her”.

    Tell me what’s wrong with what you said here!

  50. Hahaha Moroboshi finally the fool this entire thread was written for rears his ugly head. You are so fucking funny, your hate is so palpable that what you just said isn’t reality — it’s just what you WISH were true.

    You crack me up. In the words of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, from me to you Moroboshi:

    “Be angry at us, and die of this anger.”

    LMAO!!!

  51. ES wrote: Yeah what the fuck, as fighting threads go, this is a bit lame… serious discussion is threatening to break out.

    This hasn’t happened since posters came out blaming why they can’t get a date on their Asianess not cause they are physically and socially awkward.

    And Bint, as UR4An once eluded to, if you can’t back up the stuff you say in person, than you should STFU on a message board. It doesn’t take a big man to post insults and I hate using this PUA term “mental masturbate” posts after posts on a message board. It doesn’t take much to do an anonymous podast either but the advantage of doing a podcast, you can expose these supposed know it alls from who they are, guys who can post lots of links and debate on a board but the personality of a turnip when you speak to them.

  52. I guarantee Chr has fallen for the same thing, but not an Asian girl (girls he despises) probably some picture of a Russian girl he meets online, he’s never met.

    Yup, the guy is the exception he thinks he is.

    Eric, stop changing subjects. I’m correct in my assessment. All these relationships you say you’ve been in, you’ve never slept with any of these girls. Just fuckin admit it!

    And no one is hacking into anyone’s e-mail. It’s just paranoid freaks like you are so easy to profile just by reading your stuff.

  53. Nottyboy. Where are you located? Puerto Rican from New York? Wy are you on asian American blogs? – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-207123

    I’m in the Northeast US, but I was raised in the Caribbean. Only came here for college, and ended up staying longer than I had planned.

    I actually started reading AA forums due to an experience I had in college. I don’t know if anyone here can back me up, but when you grow up in a place like P.R., you don’t really make much of a big deal about race. I have family members who are blondish, and others that look Black, for example.

    So with that background, my expectations were out of line with how things are actually like in here. So, when I came here I didn’t think it would be a big deal to make friends from all communities, but then I noticed how everyone kinda hung with their own, unless it was something “cultural” sponsored by the university.

    But the experience that made me look into the AA-sphere was related to the IR thing, without me knowing it at the time. During my freshman semester, I got friendly with a senior dude who happened to be Vietnamese through playing pool at the university. Of course, there was a Vietnamese girl who hung out there, and we got a bit friendly as well. It was obvious that I found her attractive from my body language I guess and the fact that I blushed when she talked to me. It was then that I started to get a bad vibe from some of the other Vietnamese dudes there. The senior guy, though, always remained very cool to me while he was at the uni.

    So, the actual “incident”that happened is is that one day, one of the other dudes who never even acknowledged me, finally came over to ask me what my name was. I thought he was trying to be friends now, but when I told him he apparently he compared it to something unflattering word in Vietnamese, saying it out loud to the peanut gallery and laughing.

    Needless to say, I was kind of mortified AND the senior guy was mortified too and actually stuck up for me telling the dude to cut it out. I was curious as to what had happened, but was afraid to ask, so I started making queries on the internet. I felt it had to be related to me finding that girl attractive and committing some sort of faux pax. So, predictably, the IR issue came up during my sleuthing online (which eventually led me to the IR issue in the Black community due to some AF’s opinions that the IR issue for both communities would be fixed if only AM’s got together with BF’s). (Ironically, all that reading made me start to pay attention to Latin women/White guy pairings, but quickly decided that wasn’t a rabbit hole I wanted to go into. )

    For me, all of that was kind of a shock. I wasn’t prepared for the reality of race in the U.S., but school and experience took care of that naivete for me very quickly.

    I only started posting on some AA sites years later, because I started feeling offended at some pronouncements that some WM’s made about AF/WM pairings being the “best suited” as far as IR goes. If that were true, what does that say of other IR pairings that don’t even involve AF’s or WM’s? It really rubbed me the wrong way, but I think I’ve gotten most of that out of my system.

    Obviously, what gets me posting the most since the 44 days has been PUA– mostly out of this feeling I have that I have a perspective that’s a little bit unique regarding it. Even then, I hadn’t really posted for a while anywhere (I’ve posted on other sites).

    I usually am more of a fly on the wall on other topics, because I feel everyone else has that more than covered—unless it’s something involving Latin America, which is not to say I know everything there either, since I didn’t grow up in other Latin American countries. 🙂

  54. http://www.freedomtwentyfive.com/2011/09/game-is-different-for-good-looking-men/

    different people have different styles that give them unique optimal results.

    you know how in traditional pua theory that you must attract before giving compliments on a girl, especially her looks.

    there is a weird and unique dynamic for AMs with asian chicks and XFs as well.

    for AFs in all asian cliques, pretty much any type of negging that comes from an AM is not going to be received well. probably has to do with the beta culture of asians. they’re normally surrounded by beta AMs who worship the ground on which they walk in the hopes of winning the “lottery” of dating her when she’s finally single. pretty much id say just open with a compliment and go right into comfort. maybe banter a little bit, but like i said previously, most AFs dont have much in terms of social skills. AFs on how they respond to good looking asian guys, if the guy’s cocky and good looking i think it will be even worse. my suspicion for a lot of AFs, is irregardless of the AMs looks, they automatically typecast them as no different than any other AM in their social circle until proven otherwise. the average AM in their social circle is a truly beta wimp.

    AFs that are more “white washed” or americanized, they’re pretty much like a white girl. normal rules apply. cocky disinterest or upfront compliment depends on her level of attractiveness as well as your own.

    XFs, is the unique situation. relative to other men, AMs rarely approach anything that is outside of their social circle let alone anybody that’s not asian. they have too many insecurities and internalize stereotypes as the truth. so of the AMs that do approach XFs, the XF has a hiccup in her normal thought process.

    for example, a WF whos getting approached by random WM, it’s automatic rejection, attraction, or mild tolerance to see what this guy is about. AM approaching a WF, she probably gets hit on by AMs maybe a few times a year.

    to give you an example of how rare it is. asians are roughly 15% of the population in california. it’s like that in LA county as well. of that 15% maybe 1/3 or 5% are americanized and speak perfect english. of that 5% maybe only half will approach other races. so you’re tlaking about 2.5% of the population in LA that are AMs who actively approach or date XFs. LA’s roughly about 35-50% white depending on where you go. i know latin and black guys have no problem approaching WFs. same goes for middle eastern armenians, persians, lebanese etc…

    so id guess that WFs get approached by AMs in LA less than 5% of the time. And that 5% is very likely an overestimation especially if we’re talking about cold approach. So when she’s getting approached, she’s usually mildly curious to see what happens cuz it happens so rarely if ever. also due to the IR disparity, it’s not assumed that AMs like WFs or latin chicks or whatever. For example lot of white guys might go direct on her. However in her normal daily life, probably all of her interactions with AMs have been indirect because those AMs aren’t even hitting on her. So when you do open with a compliment or show direct interest upfront, it’s kind of going against the grain or her expectation. It sets you apart.

    I originally was going to talk about how good looks affects game but I got off on a tangent. But also I think XFs can’t really tell the difference between a good looking and bad looking asian. Im exaggerating a bit. As long as the guys in decent shape and decent style I just don’t think WFs can tell the difference. For example lucy liu is “hot” to most XMs, to Asians she’s just kinda avg or slightly above. The same thing goes for AMs in America imo. So whether or you’re below average or above average in looks as an AM, chances are nobody else can tell the difference besides AFs.

  55. He should. For a guy who says he’s not a PUA, he sure knows a lot about it. I disagree with just about everything he said up there. I’m sure KING can write a better rebuttal than I can.
    I had a friend who was going to get into PUA but I convinced him not to. All I said was, “you’re going to get advise from these guys? (show them Tran and Simple Pick) Just look at them.” and that’s all it took to convince him not to.

  56. By the way, I’m suprised there is ZERO discussion about the collection of douchebags that is known as the LA band “Day Above Ground”.

    – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-207141

    meh some more white guys who have a fetish for asian chicks. nothing special that i can add to the discussion. you must admit, it is funny. offensive to asian chicks but funny. it’s more offensive just because asians dont have normal representation in the media, so as a result this kind of “satire comedy” becomes the normal representation by default.

    i can imagine how much shit AFs take from other women because of stuff like this. i’ve heard through some friends of friends in college that lot of WFs hate it that AFs are taking “their men”.

    the more AFs deliberately, exclusively and desperately choose WM, the more hate they get from pretty much everyone else. hate’s a bit of a strong word, so maybe not hate but condescension and pity. i think AFs know this already though so hence the backlash on this video. i’d make a bet that AFs were the one who spearheaded this backlash. lol

    this video, imo, doesn’t really reflect negatively on AMs much. in american society, AFs and AMs are seen and treated as two completely different categories.

    the reason this video is so popular or controversial is the prevalence of WM/AF couples. why didnt’ we see something about indian women? or a video called “Indian Girlz” lyrics talking about curry, nhan, red dots, cab drivers, 7-11s, tandoori chicken. taht shit is just as foreign and stereotypical. they picked “asian girlz” because in america that is a real life phenomenon. asian chicks are popular with white guys, they seek them out exclusively. asian chicks get hated on and shit on by WFs and condescension from other races of women for their WM groupie behavior. this video only gives more ammunition for women to use against AFs and their groupie behavior.

    it’s real life karma at work.

  57. you know how in traditional pua theory that you must attract before giving compliments on a girl, especially her looks.

    there is a weird and unique dynamic for AMs with asian chicks and XFs as well. for AFs in all asian cliques, pretty much any type of negging that comes from an AM is not going to be received well. probably has to do with the beta culture of asians. they’re normally surrounded by beta AMs who worship the ground on which they walk in the hopes of winning the “lottery” of dating her when she’s finally single. pretty much id say just open with a compliment and go right into comfort.

    The point of NEGs is to stand out from the other guys in showing that you are not affected by her looks. It’s a different manifestation of the whole idea that RJ put as “Beauty is common. What’s rare is personality, a good energy, and a great outlook on life”. That’s why guys like Cliff (from the list) liked to find things other than looks to compliment the type of conventionally attractive women who might be used to hearing stuff like “you’re beautiful” all the time. It’s all the better if you actually mean it when you say it because then it’s congruent with your beliefs and how you feel!

    I can’t really speak to any of the AM context in terms of actions…because I don’t know. Maybe those statistics matter in some way, but the whole direct vs indirect thing feels like splitting hairs. My personal feeling is that things go more smoothly when you act and speak in a way that is congruent with your own personal makeup. For breaking the ice, in particular, you want that but at the same time demonstrate that you’re an affable person. If you are able to add some wit to your initial overture, then it’s even better.

    And, of course, nowadays you also want to avoid the “PUA” label as much as possible ( PUA as in “guy who learned from the internet” or “guy who took a bootcamp”). 🙂

    On the subject of looks, I think different cultures sometimes have slightly different standards of beauty, so who knows, maybe non-Asian women do apply slightly different aesthetic standards to AM’s than do XF’s(I don’t know). Then again, back to that OKCupid survey I linked elsewhere: most women (at least on OKCupid) consider 80% of men, regardless of race, to be below the median—so maybe they can’t tell the difference for any X type of male, unless those males happen to be in the top 20%, lol.

    I will say that my personal observations tell me that XF’s will react to a good looking Asian dude. I used to walk around with an Asian dude I knew, and while out on the street, I would notice Asian girls left and right just “choosing” him (meaning they would check him out from head to toe). Some non-AF’s also looked at him, but not to the same extent, which may have to do with what you say.

    HOWEVER, whenever this guy worked up the nerve up to talk to any girl, you could often see their eyes light up. So while I don’t discount what you say, in light of the media issues, it was very very interesting to me how all of that seemed to go out the window once he had gotten their attention by talking to them. It just tells me guys have nothing to lose by trying if they really wish to cross the color line.

    For those that want to stay in the Community Club, maybe a different set of issues of economy comes into play.

    By the way, do the Podcast man. I can’t really add anything regarding Asian guys and PUA. I can only speak of the PUA stuff I’m familiar with in general.

  58. Eric wrote: hate is so palpable that what you just said isn’t reality — it’s just what you WISH were true.

    How is that hate? I’m just calling it as I see it. You’ve never been in a “real” relationship or with a “real” woman. Blow up dolls DO NOT count. You’re just an angry virgin who vents on the internet.

  59. HAHAHAHA keep believing what you want stupid. Stroking yourself so you feel better. You’re nothing but a bitch. Why would I advocate relocating to Asia if I didn’t truly experience life there?

  60. Again, avoiding the question about whether he’s been in a real relationship or with intimate with a woman? What’s the real reason you are moving to China? So you can find one of your many imaginary girlfriends?

    Oh, wait, you are saving yourself for marriage. Ok. You almost had me there.

  61. Haha, I was only trying to be a little classy rather than reveal intimate details about my past relationship, but if you really want to push it — I came probably the equivalent of a gallon of milk inside of her culminatively through the years we were with each other together. Complete trust = no condom, just birth control — one of the benefits that oneitis has that PUA doesn’t tell you about (I’m not a blind advocate for PUA, if you haven’t noticed). We made love on different continents, but it’s nothing special really — just something that happens in all long term relationships.

    Not that you’d believe me, Moroboshi you status-quo lobbyist bitch, but there ya go — let’s see what you come up with next. Any other questions, dumbass? LOL

  62. You’re calling it as how you see it? Haha, then if that’s truly what you see— you must have had a huge stroke, or maybe was born with an extra chromosome, because I think there’s something severely fucked up with your sensorium.

    Moroboshi, you bitch ass haha, I’m sure you do call it how you see it — too bad you can’t see shit you dumb fuck.

  63. “Moroboshi, you bitch ass haha, I’m sure you do call it how you see it — too bad you can’t see shit you dumb fuck.”

    so many cuss words lol, bitchass, dumb fuck that can’t see shit

  64. Did you learn how to say that from the porn you constantly watch? You think saying this stuff is any proof? LOL!

    I think now I’m going to be sick. You must really watch some sick porn shit on the internet. You just ruined me wanting to eat for the next few days. I guess I won’t have t work out for awhile.

    You must live in fantasy land. I can totally see you don’t get any just by the way you constantly post, sometimes 7-8 in a row for one thought and how you got soooooo excited getting 3 phone numbers in 3 days.

    BTW, if you really did have a relationship and sex, you wouldn’t need to stoop to a level of proving yourself just like when you say I’m white, I can give a shit. LOL!

  65. asianguy wrote: “Moroboshi, you bitch ass haha, I’m sure you do call it how you see it — too bad you can’t see shit you dumb fuck.”

    so many cuss words lol, bitchass, dumb fuck that can’t see shit

    Takes a big man to cuss out someone on a “anonymous” message board, doesn’t it? Not.

  66. So…Moroboshi, what’s your exact ethnic origin again. Japanese? Half white?100% cracker? Heard you refute not being white, but haven’t heard you actually tell us what your racial breakdown is.

    Whats the big secret? Isn’t it something you should be open about on an Asian Activist blog, never mind one that is predominantly ethnic minority-based?

  67. Eric,

    I do think you have so much to offer your opinions on US meddling in middle east and how it preserves its power from foreign policy. Using your existing knowledge, you can contribute so much more to other threads where anyone of us might be interested and happen to put our opinions and share. It’s not who’s winning the arguments, it’s the process we learn along the way.

    You don’t need a year to figure out who’s contributing much more in which area and who’s more vocal in which thread, and who more resorts to aggressive mode. I’m neither a big man nor an arbitrator here. But I like to think “Ad Hominem” thread as a dumpster. Just because I have a dumpster doesn’t mean I need to dump all the time. If need be, we can migrate and spit it out here.

    And I do think you have a valuable point of view from which we can argue cordially or come to terms with.

  68. What is so outrageous is how important race can be. While living abroad, you get one kind of treatment — then you come to America, where dating can be so egregiously racist — it’s unreal. But it teaches you the power of context. You can have a hard time in one area, take a plane, and be something totally different elsewhere. It’s fascinating. It also blows out every belief in any stereotype totally out the window. I just don’t believe in any of them anymore. Context. The power of context. It is so mind numbingly real, it makes me realize that the world has endless possibilities. You find yourself the proper niche, and you can make anything happen.

    But because of financial reasons, I need to stay here in the USA for a while. So I ask myself, how do you change the context… ?

    @Moroboshi — Believe it; I had sex many times, and I’m GOOD at it too… so choke on that, you bitch. Hahahaha

    Again, just like former Iranian el Presidente Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said:
    “Be angry, and die of this anger.”

    LOL!!! Words of ownage indeed.

  69. But then again, its nothing special. Just doing what anyone who ever had a relationship does. I don’t know why you make it such a big fucking deal, Moroboshi you fucking bitch. I never said I was special, but you really had to draw it out of me, did you…

    Stupid git.

  70. I got 3 numbers in 4 days in Singapore, and had I been able to stay there longer, I definitely, DEFINITELY would have been fucking 2 of them. I know how to talk to women — overall, I generally like women, but its fucking annoying when women write you off immediately due to race — what can you do if she does that then?

    You don’t understand, with the one that I really liked, we talked multiple times after the number — it wasn’t a flake off afterwards. The problem was I was already back in the USA by then.

  71. Oh, ouch. I had no idea that that had happened, Notty. I can’t believe it. I knew he was narcissistic, which is why I stopped reading a few years back, but I’m shocked that it went down the way it did.

  72. HS is just one more in a long line of “moral men” with clay feet. His humble-bragging, always focusing on how much sex he had with students– from his position of academic authority no less– was an immediate tell for me as I read his articles. I wasn’t really that surprised, later, to find out that he was victimizing feminist bloggers of color along with Amanda Marcotte; it just cemented my previous feelings. Not that anyone would confuse me with a feminist, but even I, a ‘mysoginist’ think that’s fucked up.

  73. HS is just one more in a long line of “moral men” with clay feet. His humble-bragging, always focusing on how much sex he had with students– from his position of academic authority no less– was an immediate tell for me as I read his articles. I wasn’t really that surprised, later, to find out that he was victimizing feminist bloggers of color along with Amanda Marcotte; it just cemented my previous feelings. Not that anyone would confuse me with a feminist, but even I, a ‘mysoginist’ think that’s fucked up.

  74. “As long as the guys in decent shape and decent style I just don’t think WFs can tell the difference”.

    Regarding WFs not being able to tell Asian guys apart:

    You just don’t think they can tell the difference. It’s simply not true at all.

  75. chr, look up vipergq on bodybulidingforums.com. he’s ripped, but he’s not facially that good looking. he’s avg in the face but he’s ripped so you can see his jawline better.

  76. That’s right. White girls think Dustin Nguyen looks like Rick Yune, who also looks like Tim Kang, who then looks like Will Yun Lee, who in turn looks like Brian Tee. Most of these guys are Koreans, and I heard many times that Korean dudes all look alike.

  77. Notty,

    That was the issue for me too. I thought it strange that he kept talking about how many good-looking students he seduced, or how he tried to kill an ex-girlfriend, rather than talking about…I don’t know…the state of feminism or current events in the world of feminism or examples of women who have empowered themselves or men who have become great feminists. It seemed to be all about him bragging about the hotness of students he slept with.

    In any case, I hope everything is okay with him and his family. He needs to quit feminism for good, but hopefully he can make something new happen after he recovers.

  78. The standard for beauty for asian men from the perspective of whites are different than asians judging asians. That’s my claim.

    By Asian Standards, good looking means Kpop drama stars, or Chinese movie guys like Andy lau, chow yun Fat. Those guys don’t fly in America.

  79. Asianguy,

    Don’t be simplistic. That’s like taking one quick glance at American pop culture and proclaiming that the American standard of masculine attractiveness is Justin Bieber and Zac Efron.

    The K-pop look is a popular look, but by no means the only popular look. Male celebrities like Hyun Bin, Cha Seung Won, and So Ji Sub are incredibly popular with Asian women for their more sophisticated and/or rugged charms, in addition to their good looks. Do any nation-wide survey of Korean women, and it’s highly likely that a K-pop male idol will not even finish in the top 5.

    And that’s just the Korean male stars. I don’t know much about Chinese or Japanese pop culture, but I’m certain that there are equivalents.

  80. Moroboshi, you Asian impersonator what is your fucking racial breakdown. Tell us. NOW.

  81. What do you mean KPOP doesn’t fly in the USA? I’m not so sure. I see alot of Western women fawning over KPOP stars. They got something good there — I know its manufactured, but whatever, lets run with it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekJ-ldOD0TQ&noredirect=1

    These guys are part of the solution to Asian Men’s image problem. JPOP was too effeminate to go anywhere.

  82. Indie, I know you’re not a fan of manufactured greatness, but let it break through then the indie stuff can come after.

  83. Eric,

    Asian men don’t have an image problem. It’s really simple to understand that Asian guys are generally “different” looking where AFs would be the only group of women to find them the most appealing.

    Why are you even fretting over this issue, when you want Asians to be part of the Asian realm? As you would say, who cares what Westerners think of us.

  84. Off topic but I think it’s hilarious that warhammer bitch hasn’t posted in here yet. He takes his god almighty persona on this blog way too seriously. He’s pretending to be above the petty squabbles of a “fighting” thread.

    I can guarantee you that bitch is reading every single one of our posts in this thread. Imagine him having to suppress his insane need for the last word because he has to appear above posting in fighting threads.

    I know you are reading this raguel. So, fuck you warhammer bitch. Lol u stupid nerd.

  85. Notty,
    In any case, I hope everything is okay with him and his family. He needs to quit feminism for good, but hopefully he can make something new happen after he recovers.

    – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-207229

    From what I read, he cheated on his wife, and so I’m not sure what’s going to happen to his marriage. I feel sorry for his kids and his wife. I have a harder time mustering a lot of sympathy for him. He’s a Joel Osteen on a much smaller scale and a different credo.

  86. Off topic but I think it’s hilarious that warhammer bitch hasn’t posted in here yet. He takes his god almighty persona on this blog way too seriously. He’s pretending to be above the petty squabbles of a “fighting” thread.
    I can guarantee you that bitch is reading every single one of our posts in this thread. Imagine him having to suppress his insane need for the last word because he has to appear above posting in fighting threads.
    I know you are reading this raguel. So, fuck you warhammer bitch. Lol u stupid nerd.
    – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-207229

    I think he actually took to heart the fact that he got called an “enforcer” for this site, something that I think was said in jest.

    The only reason he gets away with so much is that this site values free speech, and the fact that politics make for strange bedfellows. If he’d been pro-PUA, for example, he wouldn’t have gotten as much leeway as he did. 🙂

  87. Well, that’s not entirely fair to say, because no one has been censored here. I mostly mean the act of calling people out on BS.

  88. Well Chr has been censored here but his posts can drive anyone crazy.

    Indieking, how about I reveal my race on a one on one podcast with you? Love how worked up you are over it. Love your logic, “you must be white to have these views. LOL!

    Or why don’t you acknowledge you were being a fuckin gutless douchebag attacking that girl on this blog. Didn’t even apologize when she called you out on it.

  89. ‘Or why don’t you acknowledge you were being a fuckin gutless douchebag attacking that girl on this blog. Didn’t even apologize when she called you out on it.’

    What girl are you talking about?

    And what does doing a podcast have to do with you revealing your racial identity?

  90. Eric

    You make a good point about the difference between mainstream softpower and independent ‘art’. Thanks.

  91. Oh Indieking, you already forgot about this rant? The girl came on and challenged you and you ran away like a scared little boy.

    indieking says:
    August 2, 2013 at 4:02 pm
    Bint

    I can appreciate your skeptical but considered opinion on western born Asians relocating to the motherland.

    Agree with you about ‘drive’ and the time it may take. But its not a reality anymore. And when you think about it, its the same reason many mainlanders come to the west to get degrees – to get a leg up. You cant blame western born Asians for coming from the privileged mindset angle. Everyone is nowadays. Honour and hardwork in terms of what you are saying is long gone. In fact one mainlander friend who is studying over here told me that even many mainlanders are going back after graduating from the west with the MA’s and STILL finding it hard to find work.

    Yes there is some kind of weird irony about western born Asians who are proud to be Asian relocating to the motherland to teach English. But its a big market, and people gotta go where the market is, not everyone is fortunate to be trained in an area that is high paid AND high demand in China. ( medicine, IT, certain media positions ) and survival out there, IS the bottom line.

    re your link

    http://expatedna.com/2012/05/11/encountering-racism-abroad-or-why-i-sometimes-wish-i-was-white/

    ..yet another Asian skank with white boyfriend so cant really take her opinion too seriously.

    And you may want to check those links you added, couple of them aren’t working.

    re activism. I have no idea how my activist mind will work in a real work situation, sure can no doubt get drowned and swallowed in the noise and may never graduate beyond chatting to a few mainland kids who actually get it. But then Im not in a rush to get out there and change things so quickly. Like i said on another thread, its realistic for western born Asians I think, to be the middle men and as communicators of western Sinophobia /Anti-Asian agenda, rather than game-changers as such. That stuff is for the big boys.

    Pete,

    haha Chinese til the last, discriminating against each other via dialects, hard to disagree with that, but thats what makes us so great, our diversity. The cultural characteristics of our 5000+ years of history isn’t rid of that easily , no matter how smart technology gets, thank God

    Yeah I think if there is a pan-Asian identity to championed by western born Asians relocating to the East, it will definitely need to be media-led if only to create a certain perspective of identity about us. Again, that’s up to whoever is pioneering this movement to consider.

    BTW just dawned on me I think i may know you from a certain blog , hope alls well, bro.

    – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/07/racism-on-big-brother-a-lab-experiment-in-overt-racism/#comment-205769

  92. indieking wrote:
    And what does doing a podcast have to do with you revealing your racial identity?

    It brings me great joy that it bugs you not knowing what I am. I want to get into a podcast with you to show what a phony you are. How you have no idea how to do a live debate and like most guys here, you only are brave enough to talk shit and write stuff on an anonymous message boards.

  93. Since i posted my comment, hadnt checked that thread, I completely missed her one comment. Only recently glossed through it a while later only to find BigWOWO closed the thread. Gonna call me a liar now? haha

    Moroboshi, youre running out of circles to run around, excuses, and bits of dirt to pick out on people. Just tell us what your ethnic make up is otherwise Im just gonna assume your a whitey asiaphile from now on.

  94. Since i posted my comment, hadnt checked that thread, I completely missed her one comment. – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-207251

    Ok even if that was true why don’t you apologize about that now. You are a liar and a coward. You’ve responded to just about everything, everyone has posted and you so conveniently missed that one post. BTW, it wasn’t just one post, ES and I commented on how lame you are and we shouldn’t take you seriously at all. Yes you missed those posts as well, conveniently. Go ahead and think what you want. It doesn’t bother me one bit cause I know you aren’t getting any play cause you are freaky looking and weird, not cause you’re Asian.

  95. I meant both ES and I commented on how you were being a douchbag cowardly attacking someone who you do not know and just assumed she was a whore.

    Yeah, you so conveniently missed that.

    that girl has more courage in in her pinky finger than you do your whole body.

  96. LOL at Moroboshi talking about projection. Wasn’t that something I used to insult him a couple days ago? That idiot hates me, but it sure doesn’t stop him from using my lingo and metaphors. What a fucking tool bitch.

  97. eric, we need blackie on here. his scenes were bad but he was great at dealing with trolls. u should hit him up on his twitter let him know we’re here.

  98. eric,
    it’s kind of funny now that i think about it, i’m pretty sure blackie did not believe in pua or clubs in general. most introverts don’t really like loud clubs. blackie was a pretty good looking guy he just lacked confidence.

  99. moroboshi,

    what’s the hottest asian club in hollywood right now? it used to be bellasco’s last year. i might be puaing there next week.

  100. Calling women who he does not know “skanks” is apparently such a casual and common thing for indieking to do that he doesn’t remember individual instances when he’s done it.

  101. What ethnicity is Moroboshi?

    Aw, gee, let me guess… Japanese-American?

    How did I work that out? Well, it wasn’t that hard, although I do have a college degree.
    I mean, I don’t know that he’s Japanese-American for sure. But I think that’s a more likely scenario than him being a white guy who has been posting here for years using a Japanese name as part of his white supremacist masterplan to fuck with Eric and other “real” Asians.

    So yeah, I don’t know 100%, but I can’t say it keeps me up at night. Not enough to continually post about it here, anyway.

    Perhaps his opinion are too “white” to be Asian, at least from Eric’s perspective, but I was not aware of any scientific studies that prove that an opinion is a heritable racial trait.

  102. To be fair, some people were calling Eric a White FBI infiltrator, so that’s where all the back and forth trolling about who’s what race is coming from. I can’t condemn one side without condemning the other.

    I also found indieking’s comment about Edna to be an unwarranted attack. I think an apology is warranted, or at least an explanation of how he came to that conclusion about her, because at least you can argue with that.

  103. It just seems unlikely that an Asian male would be professing Anti-Asian male stereotypes the way that joker has.

    Anyways, I’m not interested in “true” Asian or not for the rest of us. The only thing I care about is using/exploiting/taking the USA down a notch, and empowerment for societies in Asia. Nothing wrong with that, right ES? If there are individuals of any ethnicity with similar motives, then it’s all gravy.

  104. Asianguy wrote: what’s the hottest asian club in hollywood right now? it used to be bellasco’s last year. i might be puaing there next week.

    I have no idea. As I mentioned on past posts, I am not a big club guy. I used to go to some back in the day but usually clubs that were nearly impossible to get into if you are a dude. (these places celebs frequented) These clubs will turn down beautiful women at the door because they already got enough of them in there already.

    I like to put the odds in my favor where there are more incredibly beautiful girls than guys. Never been a big Asian club guy. I refuse to go to any club that WILL let me in. Those are usually boring sausage fests. Bunch of dumbasses fighting for women they wouldn’t be caught dead with or women who are there only to be seen not looking to find a guy.
    Not saying the clubs I used to like to go to don’t have women who only want to be seen but the odds seem to be more in your favor if women outnumber you 10 to 1. Worst case scenario you get to talk to some incredible eye candy. These are the type of clubs that would never let a group of PUA guys into and eventually within 3-4 months would die down and becoming a crappy more guys than girls club.

    All and all, I never took clubs too seriously like some of those PUA guys do. The chances of creating some kind of date or relationship is nearly impossible. I never went in there thinking I would find someone. You’re just setting yourself up for disappointment if you do.

    BTW. I remember going with a friend to this crappy sausage fest club once that easily let me in and as I walked out after 10 minutes. Simple PU walked in right after. I remember thinking to myself what an incredible rip off that is them taking their student into a club that would let me in. It was the same night the Asian guy from that company stared at me and creeped me out.

  105. eric wrote:
    It just seems unlikely that an Asian male would be professing Anti-Asian male stereotypes the way that joker has.

    What anti Asian male stereotypes am I professing? In your mind, every Asian American male is angry and thinks like you do. Sorry man, most are even keeled and don’t give a shit of anything you talk about. Most Asian American guys I know have as much trouble dating as any white guy would or is successful as any white guy is. You think anyone takes you seriously? Even Pozhal, who I don’t agree with all the time sees said you are megalomanic. That’s not a good adjective.

    Notty, we only called Eric an FBI guy (never said he was white) cause he kept saying the same old shit over and over again in many different posts. It just seemed like he was trying to draw out some Asian extremists so he can report to his superiors.
    And I know you only defend him cause of your disdain for Raguel but I’m surprised you didn’t see that.

    I’m just sick and tired of seeing all these angry asian men posting stuff and the root of it coming from lack of getting a date. I’ll say this again. It isn’t white males who are stopping you from getting a date, it is you being ugly and no personality that is.

    Funny how no one talks about how white women are seen as the most beautiful women as well. As Pozhal and I have pointed out, when given the chance, Asian American males most likely will marry white as well. But oh, let’s blame the white man and Asian woman only.

  106. Notty, we only called Eric an FBI guy (never said he was white) cause he kept saying the same old shit over and over again in many
    different posts. It just seemed like he was trying to draw out some Asian extremists so he can report to his superiors.

    And I know you only defend him cause of your disdain for Raguel but I’m surprised you didn’t see that.

    I’m just sick and tired of seeing all these angry asian men posting stuff and the root of it coming from lack of getting a date. I’ll
    say this again. It isn’t white males who are stopping you from getting a date, it is you being ugly and no personality that is.

    Funny how no one talks about how white women are seen as the most beautiful women as well. As Pozhal and I have pointed out, when given
    the chance, Asian American males most likely will marry white as well. But oh, let’s blame the white man and Asian woman only.

    Completely understandable, and I don’t have a problem with you. That’s a good point too about white girls, etc.

    I’m just kind of pointing out, though, that some well-meaning people are not being even handed when they come down on some posters. Like, there were only a few guys who said anything to Raguel when he started posting some racist crap: wowo, eric, and maybe one more poster. Yet, I bet you if I had been having some spat with Eric or Asianguy, and they said some of the things Raguel said, there would be a dogpile on them.

    At the same time, I did think that the attack on Edna was unwarranted, and it would have really shown something if more guys called indieking on that. You (meaning the royal “you”) don’t even need to bash someone to do it, if you don’t want, but just call them out on it. Shit, call me out on any bullshit I might say and do it for my benefit. Even if I disagree, at the very least a conversation is started.

    I just think, generally, we all need to be more consistent in how we apply judgment.

    But yeah, I definitely have no problem with you going at it with Eric or anyone else. You have your reasons, and some of them that you just mention, I think are valid. However, if I’m going to come down on you for your posts, which I haven’t (or have I?), you can be sure I’ll come down on Eric as well. Either that, or stay out of it.

    Then again, no one has to listen to anything I said here. It’s just one opinion and how I feel.

  107. Also I want to add, it is incredibly racist to assume someone is a certain race just cause he’s posting something you don’t agree with. I find it funny the ones who whine about racism are the ones who are most racist on this board.

    ES wrote: Calling women who he does not know “skanks” is apparently such a casual and common thing for indieking to do that he doesn’t remember individual instances when he’s done it.

    Exactly and if you noticed, he’s disappeared again from posting. Weird how he does that when called out on this. Takes a bigger man to apologize than to run away from things. Since he likes labeling people, It’s just to call him a “Chinese chicken shit.”

  108. And as for Raguel, yeah, I do have a problem with his personal attacks, and the racist stuff. I know that not every poster here respects me because of my stances, but at least they avoid personal attacks and try to reason out their positions (or they just don’t engage me).

    I don’t usually hold on to grudges, but for that to happen, some basic civility needs to be extended. You can’t engage someone and remain civil when they intersperse a personal attack on every post.

  109. Indieking’s random attack on Edna was also bad because he posted a link to her blog on this site and assumed she was with a rice chaser. That is just irresponsible. Edna may have gotten many harassing e-mails from angry asian men because of this. Not fair at all for her.
    It’s just cowardly to stir things up like this especially for someone who is afraid to do a podcast.

  110. Also Eric showed his true colors of being a coward by posting on differing sock puppet names.

    I don’t stoop to a level of immature name calling for the most part. I’ll just call it as I see it.

  111. Stop bitching about having people do podcasts. How many times has it been explained to you? I like the anonymity and that’s final.

    Moroboshi:
    “I’m just sick and tired of seeing all these angry asian men posting stuff and the root of it coming from lack of getting a date. I’ll say this again. It isn’t white males who are stopping you from getting a date, it is you being ugly and no personality that is.”

    You really are blind. You basically toe the line of what White-America wants minorities to believe; that there is something inherently wrong with them. So you don’t think that there is a racial hierarchy here in the USA and the West? Have you ever experienced life abroad, and can accurately compare it to life here? You are a pathetic status-quo lobbyist, and regardless of your race, you offer no ideas, no vision, and are all about self-blame.

    Let me challenge you to debate me directly. Do you or do you not believe that Western hegemony is the cause of the IR disparity? Or are you saying that the reason that the IR DISPARITY exists, a statistically significant social phenomenon, because… Asian guys are angry, have no personality, and are ugly??

  112. I have NEVER EVER posted under anything under this name. You are a liar and YOU are the coward for making these accusations. What basis do you go on making these bullshit claims???

  113. If you think nobody is taking to heart the Western hegemony aspect, you are completely wrong. Because it isn’t my message. It’s not something I came up with, not something I invented. I post because this is really what is going on in the world, that race does play an integral, hugely significant part in how people date, and that there is a racial hierarchy depending where you go. You can deny these facts, but you’re in the same league as idiots who deny man’s involvement in global warming, or someone who denies the existence of evolution.

    Ultimately, I oppose everything you say because you are unreasonable; again, you never present any original ideas of your own, and you shoot down everything anyone else has to say. You are a staunch status-quo lobbyist, and it does not make sense why any reasonable intelligent individual would want to continue with the status quo… unless you were one of the few beneficiaries of the status quo. You just seem like someone with a vested interest in denying the reality that is Western hegemony. You can attack me personally, but as long as people put 2 and 2 together, I’ll feel as though I have done my part.

  114. Eric wrote: Let me challenge you to debate me directly. Do you or do you not believe that Western hegemony is the cause of the IR disparity? Or are you saying that the reason that the IR DISPARITY exists, a statistically significant social phenomenon, because… Asian guys are angry, have no personality, and are ugly?? – See more at:

    No I think it’s more complicated than that than just saying the I/R is blamed on that. I do believe Western Hegemony is what causes both Asian Woman and Asian Men to think white is more beautiful. Asian guys can date white girls as well but many of them don’t want to work for it. And by work I mean, dieting, dressing, haircut, etc. Also, I find many Asian guys who whine about dating, don’t really ask girls out much. As I showed you, Asian American celebrities, especially athletes go marry white women. They almost never marry an Asian woman.

    You guys act like Asian women are loved by all white men. You guys obviously haven’t lived in a conservative town where many people would never marry much less date a minority. Those conservative folks who marry minority women are few and far between.

    Any minority in any country experiences racism. The racism most people experience is unintentional racism. It is the racism from people based on not ever dealing with a certain group. This unintentional racism stops that group from being promoted, etc. People like to promote who they are used to, who they know and their friends. I don’t see how it is any better for an American Chinese to go back to China since most Chinese aren’t used to dealing with Chinese Americans. Native Chinese will always have the advantage over Chinese Americans. As Asian Americans go to the next generation, we’ll even be more distance from our ancestors in the motherland. But I do see things changing. I’m seeing more and more minorities in different fields. In the entertainment industry, there are many more writer’s, producers and CEOs of big companies than there ever was.
    I always thought it was bad for Asians in this country to just exclusively hang out with Asians. It’s a weird form of willing segregation but it also perpetuates unintentional racism. I don’t see how it is any better for an American Chinese to go back to China since most Chinese aren’t used to dealing with Chinese Americans. Native Chinese will always have the advantage over Chinese Americans in the workplace. Are these native Chinese promoting Chinese Americans in their country? As Asian Americans go to the next generation, we’ll even be more distance from our ancestors in the motherland.

  115. The only one who can confirm whether you sock puppeted or not is bigwowo. I’m sure you did since you were the only one posting at that time.

  116. Oops copied and pasted the same thing without deleting it. Wish this blog has an editing function.

  117. Eh go ask him instead of lying. You should own up to what you are — a perpetual ad hominem attacker. This entire thread was made for your antics.

  118. Well Fuck off! you attack as well. Who was the one who kept egging us on to come on and attack you? So self righteous. It’s annoying.

  119. Actually your last post actually had some decent commentary in it. I’m honestly quite surprised about that.

    Is moving to Asia feasible? It is true we will be viewed as different initially. But as long as we are able to provide something wholly unique, a conduit between the latest trends in the West and China, or from Korea to China, then we have something unique to offer. In terms of fostering community, that is where the whole loyalty thing comes in. Entrepreneurs will probably fare the best. Plus it will be advantageous for Asian Americans to take hold of their roots and benefit from the upcoming shift in consumption related to the economy. There’s opportunity to be had, and that coupled with the benefit of being part of the majority — it’s too good to pass up.

  120. Unintentional racism or not, this is something I have to deal with. IR disparity is something that I have to wrestle with, therefore I do — and I do the best I can with this unfortunate reality and all its side consequences.

  121. I guess the biggest reason why your race comes into question is that — you do not seem like someone who gets affected by much anti-Asian prejudice. The way you comment, does not seem congruent with an Asian American that has to deal with prejudice in all of its wonderful facets.

    And I hope you cannot honestly say that race has no effect on how you are treated out in the world. And I’m not talking about just direct white on Asian racism. Though I can never make a 100% fully accurate generalization that could satisfy every situation, several Asian women who I’ve met who exclusively date white men have this interesting tendency to be extremely hostile to Asian men. Now why is that? Maybe Edna is an exception, but I’ve met certain Asian women who date white men who have this interesting aspect of hostility towards Asian men. So you see, the IR disparity has its effects extend beyond the relationship.

    What about leadership positions? Do you think that when people witness the IR disparity, they make certain opinions about Asian men? Do you think that leadership positions are going to be handed to Asian men in light of the IR disparity? To me, it seems like this IR disparity has a variety of interesting effects.

    So, in conclusion, our society still very much sees race, and there are very real consequences. So do us a favor and please just satisfy our curiosity and tell us your ethnicity.

  122. Well, to be fair, Eric, I think that most people who find themselves here are conscious of the issues in some way. Even Siggy, who has taken to trolling, ostensibly found his way to the 44’s out of a concern for his hapa child and what he thought the child would have to go through growing up (He only started trolling hard after he got chewed out in style by the women in that forum, but the dude is human).

    My belief is that if Moroboshi was a 100% white, he would be trolling like Siggy or he would be defending HBD.

    If you could call Moroboshi white-anything, it would perhaps be “white knight” if you feel he is being pro-Asian Female “to a fault”. I honestly don’t feel he’s being deceptive. What you see is what you get, IMO.

    Likewsie, I don’t think anyone here seriously thinks you’re White (but I think you know that).

    The only posters whose identity I ever question are those who are supposedly ethnic guys defending HBD. That does not compute at all to me.

    Anyway, just my 2 cents.

  123. Well, to be fair, Eric, I think that most people who find themselves here are conscious of the issues in some way. – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-207333

    And what I mean by that is that if they identify as Asian, chances are they really are Asian, because most White people don’t even bother to educate themselves on the issues. Heck, I don’t think most non-Asian people really are aware, and we mostly just stumble upon it (and are suprised!).

  124. Morofakeasian,

    Just because I dont post for days when one of the threads explode is because maybe Im focused on other work, unlike others who can stop by more regularly.

    If Edna wishes to come on here and demands a full apology from me,assuming she’s a grown adult, Im sure she’s more than capable to do so without the need for the random sight of a one off retort comment from a lone Asian female,to cause so much redundant pant-wetting.

    What I still cannot understand is how you defend your pro-status quo white-knight-is right attitude, yet still call yourself Asian is mindboggling.

    So if youre Japanese say it. If youre half or a quarter, say it. But the longer you avoid it and run circles it just proves you’re a fake.

    Like i said earlier, anyone who regularly posts on an blog that states’ Asian American Intellectualism, Activism, and Literature’ out of courtesy ought to state what ethnicity they are. Its just a given.

  125. id like to see more articles on this blog about asian american politicians. i haven’t heard anything about john liu running for NYC mayor.

  126. John Liu talking about TECH at NYTech meetup on values of tech to show transparency, accountability of public spending, open sourced code allowing other cities to make improvements so NY borrows back.

    Math-savvy Asian guy but he seems a level headed, very cool, knowledgable, and down to earth.

    But making tech transparency and accountability as core to winning the vote, in these corrupt times? Good luck, with that.

    http://vimeo.com/71577839

  127. Indieguy WTF does it matter what I say I am?

    We are on an Anonymous blog. You could be the grand dragon of the KKK and I wouldn’t know.

    As long as the only way of communicating is through this blog, anonymously, I don’t know why would it matter what race I say am.

    If Nottyboy didn’t agree with you about something, should he not be able to say anything cause he isn’t Asian?

    What if he didn’t say he was Latino? You assume he’s Asian cause he agrees with you?

    LOL! Like you think I actually care what you think I am. If you put that time and energy on trying to get a date, you wouldn’t be such an angry person. I felt sad for you when you wrote, “This is what people tell me relationships are like.”

  128. Eric wrote: you do not seem like someone who gets affected by much anti-Asian prejudice. The way you comment, does not seem congruent with an Asian American that has to deal with prejudice in all of its wonderful facets. – See more at:

    Maybe cause me and most of the people I know think it’s ridiculous your whole stance on this racial prejudice is based on this supposed problem of interracial disparity.
    I’ve had no problems dating white girls my whole life. Why is that so hard to believe? You are being racist against your own people.

    Give me an example of the type of racism you face daily? You are very vague about things you talk about.

    BTW, leadership positions and the interracial disparity? Since Black men are dating more white women than white men dating black women. Why aren’t these black men being hired for leadership positions?
    And I’ll add this, I’ve faced more blatant racism from “Asian Americans” who have “made it” in business than I have from white people. I

    It’s Asians feeling the’ve joined this exclusive club of success and not wanting other Asians to join them unlike African Americans who tend to help one another.

  129. Running circles around the topic. Such a damn troll.

    Are you genuinely sad or just rejoicing in another troll ‘victory’? Where did I say what you wrote above, BTW.

    And how much time do you spend researching for potential ‘weak spots’ you think you can home in on here? You’re obsessed, for some unknown reason.Its unhealthy, like some kind of stalker.

  130. indieking: And how much time do you spend researching for potential ‘weak spots’ you think you can home in on here? You’re obsessed, for some unknown reason.Its unhealthy, like some kind of stalker.

    Not much time. I can read one of your posts and profile what type of person you probably are because you are so easily predictable and transparent.
    Talk about obsessed, I’m not the one obsessed about what race someone is. Again such self righteous bullshit. Yes you did say “people say relationship are…” is this the same as you forgetting you attacked Edna?
    It’s not white homogeny that is stopping you from getting a girlfriend, it’s Y-O-U!

  131. Eric to Moroboshi:

    “you are a perpetual ad hominem attacker. This entire thread was made for your antics.”

    That sounds like the pot calling the kettle a dumb fuck fucktard pretend-Asian-status-quo-lobbying fucking tool bitch with a shit-filled mouth.

  132. Nope. Indieking and you both being single has nothing to do with white people. I am sure there are Asian guys who are single because of a western influence but not you two guys. What woman in her right mind would want to marry much less date you guys?
    I can see it now, both you guys with protest signs with messages of how a white person and an Asian woman couple is stopping me from getting a date or a job. Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

  133. And I did work for a company once for a WM boss who married an Asian woman hired her brother who had zero experience to the compamy. Lots of more qualified people did not get promoted but he moving up and now is an exec for the company. What can you say about that? I also know a WM in a high position who also has an Asian wife who hired an Asian male in a big position where you don’t see many Asians in.
    So you’re whole interracial disparity thing is flawed. As you say IR is keeping Asian males from obtaining high level positions, there are Asian males obtaining positions because of it as well. These are examples of my point that people tend to hire their friends or who they know and are used to.

  134. Your attempts to deny that there is a problem, and your use of isolated examples shows how deluded you have really come to be. First of all, there is lots of statistical evidence that despite Asian professionals making up a significant group of all employed, yet leadership positions are scarce amongst Asian men. Thanks for telling me your personal little anecdote — so basically the fact that a white guy who married an Asian chick, by hiring her brother, that is evidence that Western society is progressive, colorblind, and completely egalitarian when it comes to race? Try reading over your own words; maybe before you try to insult others on how ridiculous you think they are, you should probably examine your own logic.

    Got a question for you — why would Urb4n, as BigWowo described it — an alpha male, successful, have so much of a problem with the IR gender disparity? Are you basically saying that he is a loser, because he has a problem with the current world dynamic? What about the Gender Podcast that was done before I ever posted? It was described as one of the most vehement, raw podcasts to date. Are you basically calling all the guys speaking on that board, losers?

    You are not only a status-quo lobbyist, you are completely in denial about the way society works. Yes, there are a few outliers here and there that happen to be Asian and in exec position — they are far and few between, and often I don’t see these individuals advocating for more Asian representation, and certainly not the way I have. Your problem is that you equate anyone who has any kind of grievance as a loser — has it crossed your mind that maybe there is a significant problem?

    You seem so invested in convincing everyone that our world today is totally fine the way it is, and that nothing is wrong. My schtick is to figure out specific ways to improve the situation as a whole. But hey, delusional people like yourself are really just that, delusional.

  135. So let’s see what you’re really about, Moroboshi, point by point.

    – I stated that the IR disparity is mainly centered on Western hegemony. This is due to evidence by the white-male only selection amongst Asian women, as white men have control over Western society and also global resources. If you disagree with this, what is your explanation of why the IR disparity, a statistically significant social occurrence, exists?

    – Do you even believe an IR disparity exists?

    – Here’s a an explanation from random Youtube users giving their “reasoning” on why the IR disparity exists.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgC3glwYBBg

    Basically Moroboshi, you said “your whole IR disparity thing is flawed.” I’m saying people will take the IR disparity, and come up with reasoning for why it exists. It is our natural tendency as human beings to explain things, and people will find a need to explain why there is a IR disparity. That is what I am saying. Moroboshi, do you think that assertion is “flawed”?

    Calling Asian guys losers — who try to advocate for themselves and who dislike the IR disparity, has always been the weapon of choice for “denial-ists” and people who would like to see the continuation of the status quo. It’s a dirty little shame tactic, and people like Moroboshi use it all the time.

  136. Eric wrote: Calling Asian guys losers — who try to advocate for themselves and who dislike the IR disparity

    No I call guys like you losers who repeat the same thing over and over again. There is a segment of guys, not just Asian who like to blame things in life on everything except themselves.

    I asked, what examples can you give me personally where you’ve been racially discriminated constantly. When you talk, you act like this is cowboy country with the Klan ready to put a rope around your neck.

    UR4an is one guy. So I should believe in all these problems off the rantings of one guy? But I respect the he had the balls to do a podcast instead of hiding like you guys.

    As I said, there has been improvement in Asians taking leadership positions through the years. Yet you just choose to see what you want to see. And btw, there are plenty of successful Asian American businessmen in this country as well.

    I know there is an I/R disparity, but it isn’t the root of Asian American Males problems like you say it is.

  137. I’ll decide on what’s a problem for me and what’s not.

    So… you’re saying that Asian guys should be blaming themselves for the IR disparity. The IR disparity. A macro-level social phenomenon.

    Your saying that Asian guys should be blaming themselves for this? After all we’ve done — work out, push ourselves towards being assertive and outgoing — after being constantly criticized for being passive, weak — you think we should STILL be blaming ourselves?

  138. A KKK-ridden cowboy country (who knows what you were talking about, there…)? No.

    A country that prioritizes white ethnicity and is rife with white privilege, especially on the social hierarchy?

    Yes.

  139. So… Urb4n was ranting in that podcast?

    What you call “rant”, I call a legitimate concern.

  140. I’m glad you finally built up the balls to debate me. Although it also seems to be revealing how deluded you really are.

  141. I just wanted to interject for a quick second.

    MOTHERFUCK YOU raguel the warhammer bitch. I know you will read this.

    Carry on guys.

  142. “And btw, there are plenty of successful Asian American businessmen in this country as well”.

    Like who? Name some.

    I could think of a few Asian guys who own liquor shops and eating establishments, if they are considered successful in your book.

  143. “I asked, what examples can you give me personally where you’ve been racially discriminated constantly. When you talk, you act like this is cowboy country with the Klan ready to put a rope around your neck. ”

    Moro, I can’t speak of Eric’s specific experiences, but racial microagressions happen frequently and I can say from my own experience that it takes a debilitating toll.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microaggression

    One type of racial microagression mentioned in that wiki is “microinvalidation” which they define as “characterized by communications that exclude, negate, or nullify the psychological thoughts, feelings, or experiential reality of a person”. Isn’t that kind of what’s happening when you dismiss Eric’s concerns?

  144. Eric posted this new topic. Eric wrote:

    “I also want to talk about something in the news. Egypt.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/17/egypt-muslim-brotherhood-morsi/2666877/

    The USA pays 1.3 billion dollars in aid to Egypt’s military every year. The CIA no doubt conspired to help put together this coup de’tat against Morsi — and now we have thousands of people DEAD because of this coup. Essentially, the USA couldn’t rein its attack dog in. I think this is a good example of how dirty and bloody the USA is capable of getting; the blood of these Pro-Morsi / Muslim Brotherhood protestors are on America’s hands.

    If America is willing to sponsor murderers and killers, who have killed at least a thousand people in the past few days — and rising, what makes you think it cares about racial equality and egalitarianism?

    America has a history of sponsoring killers:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQBWGo7pef8

    Fuck America. Fuck the USA military, and fuck this country. There is no way Egypt’s coup could have happened without CIA financial and organizational support. I hate the United States with every cell in my body.”

  145. Chr wrote: “And btw, there are plenty of successful Asian American businessmen in this country as well”.

    Like who? Name some.

    I know Chr knows the answer and just wants to have me go through hoops but off the top of my head.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Wang

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Wang

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Soon-Shiong

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Yang_(entrepreneur)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Chen

    There are many more I don’t have time to name. Going to go out w a white girl so I’m sorry I don’t have time to play w you Chr. Lol!

  146. Thank you AL for that excellent description.

    What I would simply like to see most is for Moroboshi to stop calling Asian guys “losers” if they have a problem with the current status quo. He constantly dismisses others and dismissed the Urb4n podcast as “ranting.”

    Stop your shame tactics, Moroboshi.

  147. Does anyone think that a small list consisting of 2 younger Asian guys under the age of 50, who made their fortunes in the tech field, whose companies they founded are now past their prime and are no longer part of their ownership, is convincing enough that Asian Americans are perceived as wildly successful?

    Let’s be realistic here!

  148. That was just an example, Chr. Obviously there are more successful Asian businesspeople than the ones on that list. He didn’t even mention Tony Hsieh, who is rebuilding Las Vegas. I think you need to be realistic.

  149. “He didn’t even mention Tony Hsieh, who is rebuilding Las Vegas. I think you need to be realistic”.

    Tony Hsieh never really wanted to be a shoe seller. But he did became rich selling footwear.

  150. “One type of racial microagression mentioned in that wiki is “microinvalidation” which they define as “characterized by communications that exclude, negate, or nullify the psychological thoughts, feelings, or experiential reality of a person”. Isn’t that kind of what’s happening when you dismiss Eric’s concerns?”

    Haha… trying to point out “microagressions” on a thread where people are saying:

    “Wasn’t that something I used to insult him a couple days ago? That idiot hates me, but it sure doesn’t stop him from using my lingo and metaphors. What a fucking tool bitch.”

    Seems somewhat niave. No need to read between the lines when the lines themselves are quite clear.

  151. Chr,

    He was rich before that. He was building businesses since he was a kid. There are quite a few Asian people who have made it in business.

  152. Bigwowo wrote: Eric wrote: ” I hate the United States with every cell in my body. – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/willie-lynch/#comment-207404”

    But you don’t hate it enough to give up your citizenship or to stop taking advantage of your citizenship.

    Exactly Bigwowo. Eric, you talk like someone in this country actually cares if you leave and go to China. What are you offering to this country that if you left, it would be deeply affected? Lots of racists probably would like to see all Asians going back to their country anyways. I don’t think any one of us are arguing with you not to go. It’s your choice. We are arguing how effective that is to stick it to things that bother you like interracial disparity.

    I’m not calling all or even most Asian Guys losers. That’s Chr’s job. I’m saying there is a select group of guys who blame lots of their own problems who they can fix but don’t want to work for it. Instead, they go on blogs complaining about why they can’t get laid on their ethnicity and how white people treat them. UR4AN is one guy. Amongst my Asian friends and relatives, I don’t see any people like you guys. As a matter of fact, I brought this stuff up once and my friend who is Korean American told me that may be the most ridiculous thing he’s ever heard. That is why I’m curious to at least talk to some of these people in person. I’m guessing 90% of the time I can figure out why they aren’t having any success just by one conversation and none of it has to do with being Asian.

    BTW, I’ve noticed this about the Asian American Females who only date Asian men. None of them ever go on blogs talking about the I/R disparity and criticize Asian women who only date white men. (maybe they have, since I didn’t read the old Asian blogs) But you do see African American Males calling African American Males who only date white women sellouts though. I think that has to with the general Asian American population just not taking I/R disparity too seriously.

    As I mentioned before, the racism I have seen most is the unintentional one. I think that has gotten better as well as time passes.

  153. Re: Evil Edna and my ‘skank’ comment.

    In case anyone’s still interested…

    Firstly, re that thread :

    Edna’s rescuers from the angry asian male . One attacker is Eurasian. Another is a FOB who probably doesn’t even have permanent residence in the west. .And another’s a fake (?)Asian denialist who still refuses to express his real ethnicity on a blog whose title contains the words ‘ Asian activism. ‘

    How the heck are the mickey mouse club going to actually understand the social effect of IR disparity beyond ‘yeah its bad but…’. You won’t, because, simply, it doesn’t affect you, personally or sociologically and you dont have to live under the shadow of such an invisible yet pervasive agenda

    Similar to as Al wrote above ‘racial microaggression’. In fact contrary to what some guys think of on here, that phrase sums up the form of racism ( also known as casual racism) that Asians have and probably will continue to put up with. How they deal with it as individuals or how many insults they get of that kind, daily, is nothing to do with the fact that it still exists.

    In fact its been set up that we shouldnt complain about it – thats how insidious it is. Course those who cannot and will not listen its pointless explaining that, but as seen above, ironically will endorse ‘racial microaggressions’ and other such racial ignorance towards Asians. Of course its not much of an irony if that person is a white non-asian to begin with , who can give more examples of white male bosses dating Asian females helping Asians than he can of Asian males who have ‘made it’ of their own accord

    1. The offended party then overlooked my supposedly offensive comment until THIRTY ONE COMMENTS after my point was made. Even the baiters like Moro-nonAsian was blabbering about Mongols and PUA up to that point.

    2. Then suddenly. The lone Asian female Edna makes one off comment to link-back traffic from this blog to her blog and the 2 white-knights run to her rescue. Or the fakeasian and hapa, to be exact.

    3. According to her blog she appears to be very much in love with her white Australian boyfriend,so if they have kids, her children will be half white. that is propagating IR, and intentionally diluting her Asian genetics.Clear as day. But her reasoning is actually compounded by her article, which makes her a self-hater.

    Her whole trip article, even purpose of travelling to China getting offended by mainland Chinese who see her Chinese looks and then, God forbid, expect her to speak Chinese, seems for no other reason than to legitimize the classic ‘thank goodness im dating a white guy’ syndrome, no matter how much she wants to downplay it.

    Does that justify my ‘skank’ quip? Yes.

    In some ways it’s like the white guy complaining about racism from ethnic minorities, except here, being a well travelled internationalist westernised Asian girl who jetsets from Paris to London throughout Europe, can afford to look down , in a polite reverse-racism even , funnily enough in a racially micro-aggressive way, at mainlanders who are ‘racist’ towards her for judging her Chinese face and ‘wrongly assuming’ she speaks Chinese.

    From Edna’s own blog:

    ‘When I look in the mirror, I honestly do not see myself as Chinese (probably a psychological effect of growing up in a very Caucasian town and attending an even more Caucasian college). So to move to China and suddenly become invisible; to feel everyone’s eyes just go straight through you, because you look the same as 1.3 billion other people – it’s soul-crushing.’

  154. “Then suddenly. The lone Asian female Edna makes one off comment to link-back traffic from this blog to her blog and the 2 white-knights run to her rescue. Or the fakeasian and hapa, to be exact.”

    Fake Asian: How exactly can anyone prove their ethnicity on an internet blog site.
    Hapa: This seems to be the very definition of Ad-hominem. Don’t pay attention to what this person actually says because they are not “pure breed” Asian.

    According to her blog she appears to be very much in love with her white Australian boyfriend, so if they have kids, her children will be half white. That is propagating IR, and intentionally diluting her Asian genetics.

    Again with the “pure blood breeding program.” Maybe half-breeds should be made to wear yellow stars on their armbands so that they can be identified as person’s of diluted genetics.

    I’m not downplaying everything you’re saying, but I don’t understand this whole emphasis on being of unmixed blood. In many Asian communities, Hapas seem to be well received, particularly if they choose to identify as Asian. At what point should their opinions be discounted on account of their breeding?

  155. indieking:

    Edna’s rescuers from the angry asian male . One attacker is Eurasian. Another is a FOB who probably doesn’t even have permanent residence in the west.

    who is the FOB that doesn’t hav permanent residence here?

  156. I cannot see how Edna feels that is “soul-crushing”. For me, it is FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!

    Finally, the anti-Asian racism / micro-aggressions come to an end!!!!

  157. Edna’s expression as “soul-crushing” and my own sentiments show how far disparate Asian men and Asian women have become in this Western world.

    Were we not both born in the United States? How can our lives be so starkly different, if not for systematic discrimination against Asian men???

  158. @King – I want to see more hapas reintegrating with their Asian roots. Furthermore, I want to see more hapa girls dating Asian men.

    There was a hapa girl who was interested in me at one point, and if I didn’t already have a girlfriend at the time I would have went for it. But we were both abroad in Asia at the time, and the social conditions / environment was right. A hapa girl would never consider going for “the lesser race” in a White/Western dominated world.

    Western hegemony needs to be hurt, and Asian society / wealth needs to be buttressed, for these lovely women (as are lovely Asian women) to reconsider.

  159. By “reintegration” of Asian roots, I am stating loyalty to their ethnic homeland in Asia, and yes… disloyalty towards the United States of America and the Western World.

  160. @King – I want to see more hapas reintegrating with their Asian roots. Furthermore, I want to see more hapa girls dating Asian men.

    Most of the American hapas that I have known, identify as Asian. I’m thinking back and actually all of them have dated Asian guys (maybe not exclusively).

  161. That’s good to hear then. I thought most hapas identify with white, and refuse to date Asian men.

  162. I know one of the most gorgeous half japanese half white girl (white dad)who is dating a Vietnamese guy for awhile now. They are in their early twenties. This is why when bigwowo asked the question about how things are affecting gen y in comparison to gen x, I wanted to hear from gen y. Is this race thing more of a gen x complaint? Of course you’re going to have your misfits like all generations do.

    I will let the dust settle a little before I respond to indie-virgin’s garbage post.

  163. @ indieking:

    You would rather talk about the ethnicity of the people who criticise you than the actual criticism itself. Which is that the rubbish that you spew is pure misogyny under the guise of being “pro-Asian” or some shit. As I’ve said before: since you appear to hate women and think of them like your property, it’s an absolute joke for you to come on here and complain about how they aren’t showing you enough respect.

  164. Yeah Indie-virgin is an ass. But as I said before, if we met this person or heck, do an anonymous podcast with him, he would be exposed on why he’s a dateless loser, none if it having to do with him being Asian or Western influence. Luckily as I said, guys who think like him are a small minority of Asian men who only exist on anonymous message boards.
    Btw, Indieking failed to mention bigwowo and King came to Edna’s defense as well. Oh but King not being Asian makes what he says less effective than if he was Asain. LOL at him saying only two white nights came to her defense.
    This reminds me when Chr proposed to UR4An they should meet up in NY to discuss things since they agree on issues and UR4An replying that he would not want to be caught dead hanging out w someone like him (or something to that effect).
    Indie-virgin not unlike Chr cannot imagine any Asian American Male being happy. The only thing that keeps them from going totally mental is thinking all Asian American men are as dateless and unhappy as they are although many on this board have proven them wrong including Chinesemom’s son who is doing really well with girls in high school.

  165. Look at Moroboshi go. Haha, you stupid git, you can’t even stop loser shaming everyone who doesn’t agree with you — even when I call you out on it. Again, your explanation for anyone who has a problem with the IR disparity is calling them a loser.

    Tell me, how successful are you in your own life — since you seem so compelled to have everyone do podcasts and reveal intimate details about their personal life on this board? Let the rest of us model by your example, as you are so evidently successful — we should all be like Moroboshi, am I right?

  166. Wait, you think Asian American guys should be happy — living in the midst of this IR disparity? Which I might add, is founded on racism.

    You think magically that a girl will appear and pair up with every guy? That everyone goes home happy? So if a large percentage of Asian women pair with white guys, and other races are equally inclusive towards their own ethnicity (I don’t see many other IR pairings to compensate), what exactly do you think is going to happen on a large scale level?

    The numbers don’t add up, numb nuts. By the way, even if Asian males are not racist against non-Asian females, have you ever considered that non-Asian females are racist against Asian males? What about the Columbia / OK-Cupid report — doesn’t an Asian guy have to make like 200K more to be equivalent to a white guy?

    The only thing you do to defend your position is to give outliers, these rare examples of an exceptionally capable Asian guy who snags a cute girl. Your examples are far and few between. I am talking about a large scale, macro-level dynamic, and though it isn’t easy, am looking for a way to change it.

    I explore ways to change the situation. You seem vested in pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes, and keeping people confused and uneducated about the reasons behind it. You are nothing but a scumbag status-quo lobbyist. IndieKing has good reason to think of you as a troll — because only a troll would be this invested in keeping others blind.

  167. Eric wrote: Tell me, how successful are you in your own life

    Well for one thing, I don’t go on random blogs whining about problems. Have many hobbies where I can meet others who have the same interests. I exercise, and eat well. Basically, i find ways to keep myself busy. Not saying Im mr. super stud like those pua guys try to lie about and have droughts like everybody else, the difference is, my happiness is not based on just being w a girl. Seems the ones who do, usually havent been with many is what i have observed.

    You have yet explained to me why are you facing racism each day. I would like to see examples, not something abstract.

    Eric Wait, you think Asian American guys should be happy — living in the midst of this IR disparity?

    Well as I mentioned, the group that is affected by this is miniscule. All the Asian guys I know including relatives and friends never talk about this. All are either married or dating. And when they were single, they never whined about being single all based on them being Asian or blame that on white guys.

    Oh and we are to believe OK Cupid and Chr’s favorite place, Columbia? Anytime those
    Stats are brought up I laugh. I can’t take any of that seriously since a lot of those people who take surveys don’t represent most of what most people think but a select number. If you are going to use those surveys to limit to what you can do then you are the loser those surveys say you are. For a guy who thinks the white man is manipulating stuff to make Asian guys look like crap, surprised you don’t think this is done with random surveys.

    And fuck you you ugly nerd. I have tried stop name calling with but all for it if you want to continue. Ever think why the reason you thought you were more successful w women in China is cause the women are interested in your US citizenship? Those women will go after the have nots of the US not unlike the old rich guy and young bride. Well you didn’t get laid so I don’t know what the big fuss is about. That’s rich, a guy who hates the US but uses his citizenship to help him get laid. Hypocrisy much?
    I never said Asians had no problems in the US. I already pointed out that they do but you refuse to listen.

  168. “Asian American men have the right to be with whoever the hell they want to be with! They do not have to ‘represent their people’!””

    PUA motherfuckaaassss……

  169. Moroboshi, you’ve presented alot of bullshit in your last post, so it will take some time to filter all that shit through for me to respond. But there was one comment that bemused me in particular.

    “That’s rich, a guy who hates the US but uses his citizenship to help him get laid. Hypocrisy much?” — Moroboshi

    Here’s another story about America and Hypocrisy, straight out of the New York Times:
    “Looking back over the six weeks since the army deposed Morsi, it is stunning to note how transparently Washington acted to support the Egyptian generals. Susan Rice, President Obama’s national security advisor, serves as point person on Egypt’s subversion of democracy, and she does her work in broad daylight, more or less. It was Rice who called the generals just before the July 3 coup to advise that they could move against Morsi without consequence. It was Rice who then called Morsi’s people to tell them, “You’re over. The generals are coming.”

    America basically facilitated violent force against a democratically elected regime. That the regime was Islamic was apparently unpalatable for the USA, yet it was still representative of the Egyptian people at the time. That conflict has erupted into the death of a thousand, and continues to rise.

    So you see, hypocrisy is the world we live in today. The USA and the greater Western World has the capacity to do anything, commit any kind of evil available to further its goals and agendas. If you believe that asking Caucasians to please, kindly, with sugar on top — relinquish their stranglehold on power in this White-Dominated society, you are not going to change anything.

    Our society, America, is comfortable with hypocrisy. The egalitarian ideals that we were taught as kids — just seems like brainwashing to me now. And the IR disparity– a unilateral racial dynamic founded on racial status and societal privilege, is one of the greatest expressions of that hypocrisy of all.

  170. “And fuck you you ugly nerd.” — Moroboshi

    Haha, right back at you motherfucker. You wrote, 6 posts above that: “Yeah Indie-virgin is an ass.”

    I think what you meant to say was “Indie is an ass-virgin.” Which is more than I can say for you.

  171. King

    As i said before the guy wont even admit what ethnicity he is, but just wants to troll and defend white people. You cant prove your ethnicity, but at least clearly state it so we can get some kind of bearing of where he’s coming from. And in my experience you can only fake your ethnic identity online before you get rumbled sooner or later.

    Re half asian/white Hapas, as far as I know, hapas only associate with their white side. I know two, both are dating white girls. Many hapas in my experience also are easily dismissive of racism against Asians because they havent experienced anti-Asian racism.

    Eurasian

    Whatever your opinion on me is, facts are there, dont feel bitter about it.

    asianguy

    FOB refering to is raguel.

    And yes what is the point in addressing Moro-fake asian, as you can see above Eric is constantly refuting the guy with thought-through logic and the guy just flies round in circles name dropping,to defend himself, name dropping to attack, I can understand him being a fanboy here, its nice to have as a regular, but like his Ad Hominem counterpart, who has yet to make his star appearance on this thread, is constantly name calling without any substantial debate.

    In fact Ive never met an Asian who will blatantly and unashamedly go out of his way so much to defend white hegemony, and fight Asians who defend their right to speak out against it, that he cannot possibly be Asian, let alone an ethnic minority. Or if he is, he is a pretty fucked up one.

  172. @ indeking and Eric:

    Your perspective on Moroboshi – and more to the point, how a “real Asian” is meant to think – is extremely skewed. Let me say that I have never met Moroboshi, agree on some things and disagree on others. I’m speaking up here because the “fake-Asian” shit is just fucking annoying.

    Some of your opinions are fairly radical by normal standards – which is fine, generally – except you think they are “normal”. Which means everyone who has what most people would consider a “normal” perspective comes off to you as being an extreme anti-Asian perspective.

    Most everyone here is a Westerner; meaning they were born, raised, or live in the West. That does not mean that they cannot be Asian as well. Most Asians experience challenges living in the West, and sometimes have anger towards their country, yet for the most part are happy, which is why they keep moving to the West and staying there, no?
    By contrast, Eric is an Asian who lives in the West, yet hates the West and wants to move to Asia. That is a perfectly valid point of view, yet don’t forget for a second that it is an EXTREME point of view. Juggling the duality of being both Asian and Western – that is NORMAL.

    If I can sum up Moroboshi’s perspective:
    – Asians face some problems but in the scheme of things, it’s not so bad.
    – Stop constantly blaming the white man and Asian women for what you see as a dating disparity; work on yourself, be better, and you will do fine.
    – Insulting Asian women is not a valid form of pro-Asian activism.

    Those are fairly reasonable propositions – in fact I would argue that the majority of Asian-Americans would agree with them. They might be wrong, of course, but that does not mean they are not reasonable propositions.

    It is only in your eyes that someone with this perspective is so way-out-there, so horribly anti-Asian that he must surely be white. And it turns into comments like this:

    In fact Ive never met an Asian who will blatantly and unashamedly go out of his way so much to defend white hegemony, and fight Asians who defend their right to speak out against it, that he cannot possibly be Asian, let alone an ethnic minority. Or if he is, he is a pretty fucked up one.

    For example, what is “defending their right to speak out against it”? Calling a girl a skank, and demanding the right to continue doing this?

    For example, I, like many people, strongly dislike displays of misogyny. If you say something that is misogynist, don’t be surprised when someone calls you on it. And when you try and dress it up as “just the voice of an angry Asian man, speaking out for his people”, then your are going to get called out on your bullshit again. Because lots of people are angry about interracial disparity – Byron aka BigWowo is the obvious example – but can make points without becoming a misogynist turd.

  173. quite busy with work, just run through a few comments,

    Indieking’s

    In fact Ive never met an Asian who will blatantly and unashamedly go out of his way so much to defend white hegemony, and fight Asians who defend their right to speak out against it, that he cannot possibly be Asian, let alone an ethnic minority. Or if he is, he is a pretty fucked up one.

    Ditto

    My thoughts on a few posters here is

    King would be the most impartial poster here with a considerable understanding of Asian Americans angst towards IR disparity and he would have realized there are also certain attitude Asian Americans carry towards Caucasians and some other things comparable to his community.

    For those who’re pointing Indieking’s outburst towards Edna as “Skank”, go and spend some time in her blog, read who’s been commenting in her blog, what talents she’s bringing to East Asia and how she reacts to local people in Asia. Briefly, she’s been in Singapore, when someone from Singtel (The biggest Telco in Singapore) asked her ID for subscribing a new line, she will relate the whole adventure with negative connotation. Basically, every experience she got in East Asia is abysmal except the fact that she finally found her true legit one in Singapore who is from England. That’s my memory. Until then, everybody here is simply finger-pointing Indieking’s “Skank” comment as if his life-sentence verdict from a high court.

    For “hapa”, the only question you need to ask is “Which side do you prefer if you were to be reborn?” Yes, is that question politically correct or appropriate to ask? Of course not. And answering that question also doesn’t contribute much to the world peace. So let’s skip the section of how “hapa” would feel and identify themselves. Or at least I don’t care. But to give credits where it’s due, I do appreciate ES’s understanding of the reality Asian Americans have been experiencing.

    http://eurasian-sensation.blogspot.com/2010/08/bit-about-asian-men-and-white-women.html

    We’re not bullshitting this IR, that IR. If there’s someone out there who truly understands why this phenomenon is such a case instead of finger-pointing Asian men “Hey bro, do some push-ups, bench-press” repertoire of cliche advice, I’m happy with that. Thumbs up to ES.

  174. quite busy with work, just run through a few comments,

    Indieking’s

    In fact Ive never met an Asian who will blatantly and unashamedly go out of his way so much to defend white hegemony, and fight Asians who defend their right to speak out against it, that he cannot possibly be Asian, let alone an ethnic minority. Or if he is, he is a pretty fucked up one.

    Ditto

    My thoughts on a few posters here is

    King would be the most impartial poster here with a considerable understanding of Asian Americans angst towards IR disparity and he would have realized there are also certain attitude Asian Americans carry towards Caucasians and some other things comparable to his community.

    For those who’re pointing Indieking’s outburst towards Edna as “Skank”, go and spend some time in her blog, read who’s been commenting in her blog, what talents she’s bringing to East Asia and how she reacts to local people in Asia. Briefly, she’s been in Singapore, when someone from Singtel (The biggest Telco in Singapore) asked her ID for subscribing a new line, she will relate the whole adventure with negative connotation. Basically, every experience she got in East Asia is abysmal except the fact that she finally found her true legit one in Singapore who is from England. That’s my memory. Until then, everybody here is simply finger-pointing Indieking’s “Skank” comment as if his life-sentence verdict from a high court.

    For “hapa”, the only question you need to ask is “Which side do you prefer if you were to be reborn?” Yes, is that question politically correct or appropriate to ask? Of course not. And answering that question also doesn’t contribute much to the world peace. So let’s skip the section of how “hapa” would feel and identify themselves. Or at least I don’t care. But to give credits where it’s due, I do appreciate ES’s understanding of the reality Asian Americans have been experiencing.

    http://eurasian-sensation.blogspot.com/2010/08/bit-about-asian-men-and-white-women.html

    We’re not bullshitting this IR, that IR. If there’s someone out there who truly understands why this phenomenon is such a case instead of finger-pointing Asian men “Hey bro, do some push-ups, bench-press” repertoire of cliche advice, I’m happy with that. Thumbs up to ES.

    For Moroboshi, he deserves one long post. So here it is.

    The only thing I find agreeable with him is his staunch opposition against PUA. That’s all.

    When Sasaki Ken and I happen to talk about IR disparity, the first response I got from Moroboshi was dateless guy.

    I don’t care if someone online called me such.

    I just do whatever do-able within my reach to help our Asian/Asian American community.

    This is the email I sent to American Eagle a while ago

    Dear Sir,

    I am American, specifically Asian American and I do support our country product American Eagle Apparel. But the fact that you’re paring with a Caucasian guy and a petite Asian girl in this webpage

    http://www.ae.com/web/browse/category.jsp?catId=cat130130&icid=AE::HP:Jeans:MensJeans

    serves nothing but a harmful impact on Asian American community. Our community has become more and more Caucasian male/Asian females couples. The trend becomes more and more alarming to both community (Caucasian females undertone towards their counterparts and Asian American males changing attitude) instead of bridging the gap between the two communities.

    As a outstanding product as it could be, American Eagle, I hope you understand our feelings and would uphold the ethical standard in pairing between different races while promoting your products.

    Sincerely,

    Not sure because of this email, they changed the page. Anyway, it’s worth my time instead arguing with someone online.

    Regarding Moroboshi’s ethnicity, is it really important if we’re doing a healthy discussion in AA activism site? I don’t think it’s required someone else ethnicity to be unveiled online to make a discussion. However assuming someone coming up with “Asian” ethnicity card and bashing Asians all the time, then it’s gonna keep every poster’s eyes rolling.

    Every other opinion he would bring up to the discussion table was all of his anecdote from every walks of life you can imagine. When Pozhal talked about why Hollywood media is doing disservice to Asians, he would bring up his struggling friends anecdotes in film industry. When N talked about British colonialism and Hong Kong, he’s more into colonialism. Nope, I’m not pulling facts out of my ass. Here’s what he commented when N and Me arguing against colonialism.

    Moroboshi says:
    May 20, 2013 at 9:51 am

    2 notable sentiments in one comment:
    “Just saying, without British influence, HK would not be close to what it is today. It would be probably be a rock.

    “My point has always been, Asians screw themselves over without the white man’s help.

    Any person with reasonable amount of racial pride will never ever spew out THAT.

    So my curiosity arose and I asked him if he’s Asian, and he said “Yes with Asian features.”

    My job with further reasoning with him is done.

  175. Excellent last observations about Moroboshi, Bint. I would also out that he mentioned before in a post:

    “As I mentioned before, the racism I have seen most is the unintentional one. I think that has gotten better as well as time passes.” —Moroboshi

    That’s all well and good. The fact that he states that most white racism against Asian men is unintentional — very good. But then there is the question, how can he accurately know when white racism is “unintentional” or not? It takes a very deep insight, basically requires the perspective of a white person — to know if racism is unintentional or intentional. I’m happy to hear that mainstream America does not really put hating Asian men on the radar — I have heard this before, but don’t you kind of have to be white to be able to make this assessment?

    My guess is that Moroboshi is a liberal Caucasian-American, who has had some exposure to Asian culture / Asian women, and is trying to influence the audience towards becoming satisfied with the status quo. If this is the case, then I would like to say this to him: I honestly did not want to hate the West or the USA, I did want to be part of this society — but the IR disparity and the racial dynamic of this society has cost me so much, that now I could not stop hating the West or the United States of America even if I tried.

  176. @ES

    Regardless of whether you feel as though my desire to relocate to Asia is an extreme viewpoint or not, I would like to say that the age old question: Why does the IR disparity exist? is neither an extreme or moderate issue.

    It is a educational point that all should be aware of.

    I want everyone to realize that the true cause of the IR disparity is due to Western hegemony and white privilege. It ties in to hypergamy, the natural desire of ALL women to seek to move up in the social ladder via relationships, and it ties in to the fact that America and Western countries are still White-male-first societies.

    Whether I am considered extreme or not, this fact will remain.

  177. The link to my original post in the Gender Divide Podcast Thread:

    Eric says:
    June 19, 2013 at 5:57 am

    Im reposting this from the PUA thread, because I feel as though it is pertinent here as well:

    On the flip side, the whole reason why we are in this whole mess is, like mentioned above, it is a zero-sum game, that is fought via power and social status. The whole reason we are dealing with this is because America holds all the power. Western hegemony. The truth is that Asian fetish is simply one more manifestation of a product that Western men and thus Western society want and acquire through their inordinate amount of power and standing in a geopolitical scale. If that power were to shift, then things would be different. Look at China for example. Already, China is demanding that movies alter their script to become more “China-friendly”, and also portray Chinese in a positive light. It is through sheer power and financial standing that China can make these demands. Asian Americans have been criticising media for decades and I see very little difference between characters in the 1970s Joy Luck Club and our current society today.

    Ultimately, the AA gender divide, which is due to the IR dating gap, is ultimately due to American / Western hegemony and power. It is the ultimate root. What to do? Again, there are no easy steps, as this whole thing… is way, way bigger than any of us individual Asian Americans. But meaningful steps are clear. It would be helpful to form a new community, a group or type of Asian-Americans who are conscious and CONNECTED with their lands of ethnic origin — who work hard in America and then use their talents to build bridges and bring financial and cultural wealth to Asia. An “internationalized” form of Asian American. By siphoning away from Western hegemony and using ones’ talents to bring Asia into more relevance, we can improve our lives while simultaneously taking a geopolitical stand in a positive direction — for us, as Asians.
    – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2008/12/gender-divide-podcast/#sthash.29JWENFZ.dpuf

  178. @ Bint:

    One thing about Moroboshi – I do think the ad hominem stuff is stupid. He’s far from the only person to indulge in this stuff here, but it doesn’t help.

    One thing about the comment:

    “My point has always been, Asians screw themselves over without the white man’s help.”

    I remember this, and I read it differently to you. A lot of guys here seem to have an idealistic picture of Asia, and see it as a counterpoint to the violent colonialism and white supremacy of the West. What I think Moroboshi was getting at, and what I was getting at on the same post, is that Asians have the exact same tendencies to do all the shitty things that white people do; it’s just happens that the world right now has been shaped by Western shittiness. Asian countries have a lot of problems, some of which can be blamed on white people, but many cannot.

    Re: the “skank” comment:
    Nothing you have said about Edna’s blog makes it any more justifiable to call her a skank. She is obviously quite Westernised, and finds Asia more foreign than she’d expected. But is there something wrong with being Westernized? If someone doesn’t like it, they should be like Eric (or at least what Eric says he’s going to do) and get the fuck out of the West, because inevitably we absorb the culture around us. Indieking reminds me of those guys who call every girl who’s not interested in him a bitch.

    IR disparity may be a problem on a broad level, but at the individual level, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with anyone making whatever choice suits them. It’s like overpopulation, which is a big problem for the world. Does that mean I should insult a person just because they have a lot of kids? Of course not.
    Sasaki Ken used to talk about all the women he had slept with – including white – yet would call an Asian woman a slut for being with a white guy. Rank hypocrisy.

  179. @ Eric:
    there is nothing wrong with your aforementioned point, and nothing wrong with your desire to relocate to Asia. I may do it myself at some point.

    What I dislike is that you have a severe problem with someone who is not doom-and-gloom about Asian prospects in the US.
    I read Moroboshi’s comments as being Asian-positive, to be honest; that being Asian is no barrier to success in the West, there are obstacles but they can be overcome. You have written off the West as a lost cause, and seem to regard anyone who doesn’t as crazy. Yet the vast majority of Asians in the West like their lives and want to stay there.
    It’s the difference between someone who thinks the system is so broke that the solution is to give up, and someone who thinks the system is flawed but can be salvaged.

    The fact that he states that most white racism against Asian men is unintentional — very good. But then there is the question, how can he accurately know when white racism is “unintentional” or not? It takes a very deep insight, basically requires the perspective of a white person — to know if racism is unintentional or intentional. I’m happy to hear that mainstream America does not really put hating Asian men on the radar — I have heard this before, but don’t you kind of have to be white to be able to make this assessment?

    But you think white America hates Asians. Are you a mind-reader? Don’t you have to be white to tell if white America hates Asians?
    Given that white people are people, and Asian people are also people, it doesn’t take a genius, or white skin, to make an educated guess about the way that prejudice works in white people, if you are interested in human behaviour. And given that Asian people sometimes have conversations with white people and read articles by white people, thus there exists another an Asian person can make a guess about what white people think. I’m not even saying that Moroboshi is correct, I honestly have no idea about that.

  180. Let me clarify — I actually don’t think most of America hates Asians, I think they don’t really care. But because WM will not relinquish their hold on power in society, and because the IR disparity is essentially linked to White privilege and power, it doesn’t mean they have to make to conscious effort to totally mess with the quality of life here in the USA.

    And though the rule of law, which is due to the Western cultural trait to treat policy as sacred (Magna Carta I suppose) is certainly a great aspect of Western societies (I certainly appreciate that, admitingly), the vast majority of Asians come to America because it controls the resources of the world. Without that overwhelming hegemonic control, I doubt as many people would be interested in staying in America, nor do I think IR disparity could continue to thrive without White privilege and power.

  181. @ES,

    Yes, I agree with some of your interpretation. Yes, Asian Americans should focus on what they’re doing instead of wholeheartedly blaming on White people. It does not serve as a constructive approach towards improving one’s community either. If optimism and pessimism are the only two options one can choose, I’m the guy who’d definitely pick up the “optimism” in a heartbeat. But there’s always a gray area where we’re not sure how far we should utilize our optimism in a constructive way. But it’s worth a try and I agree on that.

    Moroboshi’s

    “My point has always been, Asians screw themselves over without the white man’s help.”

    ES’s
    I remember this, and I read it differently to you. A lot of guys here seem to have an idealistic picture of Asia,

    I beg to differ on this one. I am for sure I don’t read the same as you.

    If Edna deserves a sincere apology from Indieking for online comment, an entire Asians/Asian Americans population deserves an apology from Moroboshi too. This is two way street. And one thing I can say for 99.99% sure is Moroboshi is not ethnically CHINESE. The other 00.01% is what nature couldn’t afford me to empower myself to taking a sweeping generalization.

    But that does not affect my agreement with his stance on “PUA” and “Optimism”. But when you come with such a sweeping jibe at My point has always been, Asians screw themselves over without the white man’s help, when we’re talking about colonialism, I don’t consider that as “tongue-in-cheek” comment. We were having a semi-serious discussion.

    Let’s say I’m African American. I’m gonna make a comment like My point has always been Africans/African Americans screw themselves over without the white mans’ help in somewhere in Black activism site like whitewatch.info and see how it goes and who’s gonna cheer me up with the most insightful revelation of the entire Black community.

    Or I’ll post Asians’ brains are larger than Caucasians’ brains, therefore Asians are way more smarter than Caucasians in stormfront, americanconservative, theapricity and see how loud fellow posters chant on my observation.

    In both scenarios, one doesn’t need to consider the poster’s ethnicity to interpret what he/she meant. If Siggy came in with the same comment, I’m gonna interpret the same way as I did before.

    But not to divert our interpretation on someone else’s comment here, I stopped my further discussion with that.

  182. Bint is just mad cause I referred to him as a dateless person. And the only reason I said that is cause you were agreeing with all this extreme bullshit Ken Sasaki was posting. Even bigwowo was making fun of him. The guy said he only wears traditional Asian clothing (which was complete bullshit) funny thing is some of you guys took him seriously even when he without any provocation attacked ES’s parents.
    What I said wasn’t an attack. That statement is made through examples I’ve seen.

    When I was younger, I was made fun of by the Asian kids for not being the kind of Asian they were. I was treated as less of a person. Yes you can say kids tease, but don’t you think they learned this stuff from their parents? Japanese look down on Chinese and Koreans. Koreans look down on Japanese, etc? I remember being treated the same way by their parents.

    Even Pozhal has some agreement in this that we have a lot to work on. I think Pozhal is a guy I can actually talk to cause he seems most sensible and I can tell his whole stance on stuff has nothing to do with his inability to get laid.

    And how the fuck do you know I’m not Chinese? What if I told you I was. Would you give me money? Why don’t we get into a podcast. I’m better at debating live than talking on a message board.

    The difference with me and what indie-virgin did with Edna, I didn’t specifically attack someone personally. There is something about someone putting up their identity for all to see and someone linking their site to another angry site to get a reaction. I’m sorry man. I get really pissed off when I read misogynistic bullshit some of you guys post.

    PODCAST! I bet you won’t do it.

    I would say a lot of why there isn’t one Asian voice in America is cause there are still rivalries between Asians.

    Even your hero Ken Sasaki mentioned this.

    But there is hope. Gen Y Asians seem much more tolerant of one another.

  183. Even Pozhal has some agreement in this that we have a lot to work on. I think Pozhal is a guy I can actually talk to cause he seems most sensible and I can tell his whole stance on stuff has nothing to do with his inability to get laid.

    Correction, Pozhal is the only one I feel you can talk sensibly to cause he’s not posting based on not being able to get a date like most angry asians here.

    Didn’t want to make it seem I’m saying Pozhal can’t get laid.

    See I’m better doing a podcast.

  184. If you think I’m mad at being called “dateless guy”, you’re picking a wrong straw to sustain this conversation.

    How the fuck did I know you’re not a CHINESE, you asked. Yes, I fucking know that almost every person regardless of their nationality is proud of their ethnicity, let alone you’re dissing entire Asian population as fucked-up one without a white man’s help. Hey guess what, if you’re really a Chinese American, fine by me.

    By the way, when we discuss or argue at times, don’t bring up somebody else’s talk like “Even Bigwowo’s making fun of X” or “King’s said that” or “URBAN eluded”, if you’re discussing, bring up the evidence and talk it out as if we’re dealing with different perspective. I’m not arguing your PUA, optimism stance which I already stated above CRYSTAL CLEARLY.

    Of course we all know we also have to work on our parts instead of putting all the blame on every other racial community. That doesn’t make sense nor did I ever try to to put blame on White community, Black community as well.

    But if there’s a movie like ’21’ coming out, yes you bet, I’ll be in a vocal group that will talk about Hollywood racebending issue. Or ask yourself honestly, where would you stand?

    Or how about Extraordinary Measures? The guy who actually discovered a cure for Pompe disease is a Taiwanese American Dr. But the guy who played in the movie is “Harrison Ford”.

    If those issues pop up, yes I’ll be in the same group pointing at Hollywood. But I agree we also have to play our parts together. But every time those issue pop up, you bet I’m gonna be in the same group as talking point instead of tapping our brotherly shoulders to work on their parts in movie industry no matter how hard it is.

    Just because being made fun at when we’re young even from our fellow racial groups doesn’t prove what you have said before. I have my share of being bullied/ridiculed as well.

    If you’re saying only one time comment, I’m gonna let it go. But it seems every posters coming in here, you seem to have a different points of views when it comes to talking about Western Hegemony which is perfectly fine by me. Each to their own. But pointing others with their notorious comments while riding a once long-forgotten notorious comments of yours doesn’t do me a favor either. That’s why I’m bringing up in this post.

    For what it’s worth, you do a good job at defending PUA.

  185. Bint wrote: But if there’s a movie like ’21′ coming out, yes you bet, I’ll be in a vocal group that will talk about Hollywood racebending issue. Or ask yourself honestly, where would you stand?

    Sure that’s your right and you can do that. I’ll tell you this though, Hollywood will not give a shit until Asians give a shit. Too many Asian Americans are indifferent about whether they see a white person in a role an Asian person was suppose to get. Until this hurts Hollywood in the pocket books. They won’t want to risk giving an Asian person a starring role in a movie. If you are only 4% of the population, they are always going to want to cater to the higher percentages.

    Tell you what, I know quite a few Asian Americans trying to get projects off the ground. I can send you a link and you can donate money to them. I bet you won’t. Most guys like you whine but when it comes to putting up, you don’t do shit.

    As I mentioned over and over and over again. Technology right now is good enough where talented Asian actors, directors and writers can fund their own film.
    You ask why Hollywood is discriminating. I ask why don’t you put money into an Asian project you believe in. At least Pozhal mentioned that he is.

    Well I’m not the only one who brings up past posters your so called extremists have also brought that up people posting in the past.

    And I don’t care about being made fun of but you seem to think it’s all brotherly love between Asians.
    I’ll continue with that story. There was also a white friend in the group and he was treated like gold. Even FOB parents seem to treat white kids better than some Asian kids. But I guess that never happens in your world since Asians love each other so much all over the world.

    Bint wrote: How the fuck did I know you’re not a CHINESE, you asked. Yes, I fucking know that almost every person regardless of their nationality is proud of their ethnicity, let alone you’re dissing entire Asian population as fucked-up one without a white man’s help. Hey guess what, if you’re really a Chinese American, fine by me.

    Oh so Chr who admits to being Chinese and thinks all Asian American males are losers is proud to be Chinese? And, he thinks the reason women don’t want to date most of them is because they are uglier than all other races.

    Bint wrote: That doesn’t make sense nor did I ever try to to put blame on White community,

    Maybe you didn’t but all the posters you defend do making me think you are blaming the white community.

    And I’m guessing you say I’m a PUA optimist to try to get me to give an upset response. You tried and failed. Sorry man. I can give a shit if Asian guys are going to give up their money on something that won’t work for them.

  186. Sorry Moroboshi, there’s really something deficiency going on in your logics.

    Tell you what, I know quite a few Asian Americans trying to get projects off the ground. I can send you a link and you can donate money to them. I bet you won’t.

    How would you know that?

    You ask why Hollywood is discriminating. I ask why don’t you put money into an Asian project you believe in.

    Did I answer already so you’re asking next question?

    And I don’t care about being made fun of but you seem to think it’s all brotherly love between Asians.

    Did I mention brotherly love between Asians was presented by “bullying and ridiculing each other at our tender ages in my post”?

    – I brought up the issue of you dissing bad about entire Asian population without a white man’s help.
    – Then you brought up “being ridiculed at younger age”.
    – Then I brought up “being ridiculed at younger age” doesn’t make any connection to your dissing to entire racial group.
    – Then you brought up that I’m saying “bring ridiculed at younger age” was brotherly love between Asians.

    Man, you need some logics here. And you want to do the Podcast?

    I said That doesn’t make sense nor did I ever try to to put blame on White community

    You replied Maybe you didn’t but all the posters you defend do making me think you are blaming the white community.

    I was not defending Sasaki Ken’s outrageous attack at ES. I’m on par with some of his attitude why we Asians should unite together and be aware of Western Hegemony. Look at the prevalent worshipping at China for any white face person can teach English. It is not something we should do. We should be aware of “meritocracy” between “pigmentocracy”.

    That’s my underlying attitude. That’s why when Eric brought up “Western Hegemony” issue, I agreed with that. But that doesn’t indicate I’m all for him. I even tried to tell him to discuss cordially if possible. And guess what? Between you and me, you’re the first one bringing up “Fucking” word. Forget it.

    What I’m worried is your logics fly in the face of so many facts here.

    Read my comment clearly. If you wanted to get point-by-point, make it sensible.

  187. Also, I’ve asked so I’ll ask again. I don’t think this is an unreasonable question but it continues to get ignored.

    “White men in the media are encouraging Asian Women to date and marry White Men.”

    Okay, if that’s the case, is it all white people or a group of them. If so, which group? What is their purpose? Don’t racists want to to keep their race pure?
    Back in the day, even if you had 1 drop of blood that isn’t white you were classified as not being white.

    And when you have a WM and AF couple, isn’t there a chance that child can look like an AM?

    And wouldn’t these same people want to keep the black man down as well? Why have movies that show positive representation of Black men yet blatantly stop Asian males from having any positive representation?

    I continue seeing people like Bint post about these things going on but yet ever get an explanation as to why.

  188. More evidence that race is a relatively used tool for resource acquisition. The evidence supporting my theories — that race is a means to an end (resource partitioning) just keeps piling up!!

    http://news.yahoo.com/white-views-academic-merit-change-competition-154608693.html

    So when callers want to discuss college admissions, and faced with Asian Americans competing for the same spots, they DE-emphasize GPA. When faced with African Americans (based on racist assumptions of the white interviewees), they OVER-emphasize GPA. This is a very overt example of how race is used to differentiate us from one another, for the purpose of educational and employment opportunities.

    This same kind of example can be extrapolated to IR disparity, and the reason for why it exists.

  189. What I appreciate with Bint is that he brought up feasibility of AA going abroad and finding acceptance and also economic opportunities. This is a valid criticism, and I have been examining ways for making this possible, because I do not expect Asia to automatically accept us with open arms. Not automatically, but yes, POTENTIALLY.

    However, Moroboshi is a pure contrarian, and a very adamant status-quo lobbyist. You cannot reason with this person.

  190. I continue seeing people like Bint post about these things going on but yet ever get an explanation as to why.

    Where and When did I post about Media representing Black person in positive light and Asian person in negative tone? The only 2 movies issues I posted is “21” and “Extraordinary Measures” which is nothing to do with IR. And You brought up totally irrelevant issues to the table.

    Anyway your question must have been answered already by a few others, but I guess you did get satisfied with their explanations because they all came up with a tinge of Anti-White sensation in their explanations. So would my answer to your question shed a sliver of light to your understanding? I don’t know. What I know for sure is I have my understanding of things happening and you have your way of seeing it.

    Regarding that Hollywood representation of Asian men in media, Pozhal already made a great job of posting up and talked about that.

    Ok let’s get down to this again for the sake of discussion here.

    This is long, but really insightful and educational. Each paragraph is a meat. And I guess you didn’t read that when Pozhal linked it.

    http://blogs.indiewire.com/shadowandact/the_crisis_of_the_black_leading_man_-_reader_submitted_op-ed

    This is pretty much reflective of Hollywood

    http://gupterpunchermagazine.wordpress.com/stories-articles-fiction/the-asian-man-in-hollywood-issue-2/

    Wang Lee Hom talked about in his Oxford Union he got villain call all the time if he wanted to join the Hollywood club. If Wang Lee Hom physicality and appearance is still not good enough for Hollywood leading actors, I have to say we Asians are pretty fucked up without a white man’s help.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6UDLOXwbNk

    Lucy Liu, a strivin actress or support?, talked about

    http://www.xojane.com/entertainment/lucy-liu-talks-racism-in-hollywood

    But my take here is someone nickname called Moroboshi’s opinion in Bigwowo AA activism is way more believable than Lucy Liu.

    And here is it. READ IT CAREFULLY.
    http://doctorparthenia.com/articles-2/cultural-racism-in-hollywood-and-the-media/

    It’s not someone whose circle of friends struggling in film industry keep talking about Hollywood is all about Money.

    But you wanted to know the actual “Who?” Who are the racist?

    And go and spend some time on this long forgotten Byron’s deal with “Dogs of Chinatown”

    http://www.bigwowo.com/2009/05/podcast-micah-moore-blake-faucette-and-eva-on-stereotypes-and-film/

    If you’re zooming in “Who is the actual culprit?” My answer is everything happened has their story. It’s cause and effect. Community sense, tacit agreement, you can’t pinpoint who is the real mastermind behind all of these. But if you still believe, it is all bullcrap, I’m fine with that. Coz that’s your opinions.

    If you think there’s a scarcity of Asian casts in film industry, so be it. If you think Asians are most critical when it comes to indie films, so be it. If you think Asians are more prone to ignore when it comes to funding kickstarters, so be it. If you think Hollywood is all about making money, so be it. Those are your opinions.

    I’m not in a way to proselytize someone else idea to completely different. Because your opinion does not affect my deeds and what I am doing within my reach. But with an attitude of “Asian screw themselves over without a white man’s help”, I’m sure as hell that I wish I don’t come across you as a fellow Asian American man walking down the street. And I’m sure neither would you do.

    Larry has come and gone. Pozhal has come and gone. Everybody (me in the future) here will come and go. But you, Moroboshi, will stay here as staunch believer that Asians man need a white man’s help and it’s all rosy and dandy in Hollywood. All we’ve got to do is Just a little bit of “Self-criticizing” and we all will be fine.

    After all I come up with all conceivable evidences, I can expect you’re gonna come up with all of your anecdotes.

  191. PUA mothafuckasssss

    where is that warhammer bitch? haven’t seen him posting lately. probably orgying it up w/goblins and hobbits.

  192. Bint wrote: Anyway your question must have been answered already by a few others, but I guess you did get satisfied with their explanations because they all came up with a tinge of Anti-White sensation in their explanations. So would my answer to your question shed a sliver of light to your understanding? I don’t know. What I know for sure is I have my understanding of things happening and you have your way of seeing it.

    Nope, please explain instead of going around my question. No one has given me any answers to why? And if it’s not all white males then who? I’m not asking you who are the racists. I’m asking you who is trying to stop Asian men from marrying Asian women? That’s the whole point of the interracial disparity, some driving force that is stopping Asian men from getting any.
    You don’t give me any specifics just abstracts.

    Again, it is all about money. Money trumps race. You are being a little short sighted to think that all media representation is just films and TV shows.

    Have a look at sports or music stars? If showing a white woman married to a black man on a reality show makes money then so be it.

    Bint wrote: If Wang Lee Hom physicality and appearance is still not good enough for Hollywood leading actors, I have to say we Asians are pretty fucked up without a white man’s help.

    But is Lee Hom a good actor? I have yet to see him in anything. I’m not saying all white actors are great but they are definitely getting not only actors who look the part but need to be able to act the part.

    What of Lee Hom’s work have you seen for you to say it is messed up that a guy who looks like him gets no role? Any recommendations? Do you know how many actors, not just Asian who are constantly saying how why don’t they get their shot? Most of the ones I know are white.

    Sorry, I don’t want to click any links cause I don’t want any porn spam sites. If you want to say something please summarize.

  193. Sorry, I don’t want to click any links cause I don’t want any porn spam sites.

    I think we’re done here without necessary for further discussion.

  194. ‘Indieking reminds me of those guys who call every girl who’s not interested in him a bitch. ‘

    Do you know me, personally? But the difference is I dont say ‘Eurasian is one of those guys who…’ instead I just address the fact that you are Eurasian,which is more accurately consistent when it comes to dealing with the socially affecting topic of IR, of which you are a product of.

    I will say one thing though, those guys who can debate their viewpoint with clarity can speak for themselves, without resorting to name-dropping and the like.

    And as i said before, re fake asian and Eurasian, its not in your social interest to understand IR from an Asian viewpoint because…you arent asian.

    Hence endless laying the facts, down , and you’ll keep glossing over it, creating this ongoing circle-jerk effect.

    By the way, Ben Efyanisim has a post on it here, maybe you guys can send traffic his way if he’s not going to post on here.

    http://benefsanem.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/moving-past-interracial-dating-disparity.html

    So what is he another ‘loser’ as well. Like anyone who talks about IR is a ‘loser’. Probably you don’t read any of the stuff the guy writes about, and probably spends a lot of time writing because you dismiss him as a loser?

    Like i said you guys are the wrong people to debate IR with because you simply dont have an Asian perspective.

    Change the topic, move onto PUA or sports or something.

  195. ‘When I was younger, I was made fun of by the Asian kids for not being the kind of Asian they were. I was treated as less of a person. Yes you can say kids tease, but don’t you think they learned this stuff from their parents? ‘

    You’re Eurasian? That would make a little more sense.

  196. Geez, if you are Eurasian, why did you have to beat around the bush like that. Read my past post. I only care about curtailing Western hegemony, nothing else.

  197. indieking wrote: Do you know me, personally? But the difference is I dont say ‘Eurasian is one of those guys who…’ instead – See more at:

    Again, such self righteous garbage. It’s okay for you to say that about someone but when someone guesses what you are, oh, well that’s not cool.
    And you wonder why you have no friends in real life.

  198. Eurasian wrote: ‘Indieking reminds me of those guys who call every girl who’s not interested in him a bitch. ‘

    Actually, if you replaced Indieking’s name with Edna’s and wrote, reminds me one of those sellout Asian skanks who only date white guys,

    You pretty much said exactly the same thing, maybe not to ES but to Edna.

  199. Its called guessing your ethnic identity, because that clue is the probably the closest we’ll get to knowing it. Its not a personal accusation like ‘loser’ or ‘no friends’ etc.

  200. indieking wrote: Its called guessing your ethnic identity, because that clue is the probably the closest we’ll get to knowing it. Its not a personal accusation like ‘loser’ or ‘no friends’ etc.

    So by you saying I’m not Asian, you are basically calling me a liar. That’s not a personal accusation?

    You really got to cut it out with the self righteous bullshit. You aren’t innocent at all on these boards so you should stop pretending that you are.

  201. At the end of the day, the IR disparity continues. This isn’t constructive, what is constructive is providing Asian-Americans opportunities to live and find economic opportunities abroad, as an alternative to living domestically — which is also an option.

    As the emerging economies rise, they will demand greater loyalty from expats living there, particularly Asian expats. To create this life, we need to offer both loyalty and a substantial skillset / capital / entrepreneurial focus so that we can create our niche. We need to master the foreign language, obtain our abilities in the USA and the West, and then offer Asia our loyalty. This should be an open and available option for anyone who wish to take it. I disdain Moroboshi for derailing this conversation away from this emphasis, and it is upsetting when people create their agendas along racial lines.

    It’s also understandable that it is hard to be egalitarian in a world where others are racist towards you. The IR disparity is a blatant example of systematically established “Social” racism.

  202. Everyone, stop arguing about whether you agree or disagree with each other about moving. I’m telling you there is a good life available abroad for those who will take it. Some can move abroad. Others can remain in the USA. Like ES, King, Nottyboy have all concurred — these are both options. The point is, either path should be made available to Asian Americans as viable options. To either remain domestic, or internationalize oneself.

  203. Can you imagine? Asian-Americans as one of the most prominent internationalized citizens. In this global world, being internationalized is the way forward. This is what it means to be progressive.

  204. I’ll agree with Bint on one thing: my hardcore, angry Anti-USA posts have certainly turned off many people from what could be a very productive and constructive idea.

    I’m not apologizing for it, but I recognize that fact. Now the mainstream posters can’t agree with me, even if they wanted to, because of my vitriolic anti-American commentary.

    By the way, Fuck the USA.

  205. @ indieking:

    I can only draw conclusions from what you write. And since you’ve called a woman a skank based on nothing really, and advocated that Asian men emulate Indian and Muslim men in their treatment of women, I think it’s pretty clear that you have some serious issues with respecting females.

    Is Ben Efsaneyim a loser? Hell no. He’s interesting and articulate and I have a lot of respect for his blog. In fact, I think you should take the advice that he offers on the post you linked.
    There is nothing wrong with taking an interest in IR and seeing it as something that is problematic. But there’s an extent to which that can become sexist and racist, and when that line is crossed is when I will part company with you.

  206. ES wrote: I think it’s pretty clear that you have some serious issues with respecting females.

    That’s an understatement. In-Dick-King wants women to respect him but judging from his posts has absolutely no respect for them.

    The problem is, this anger stems from him thinking all Asian women owe him something just cause he’s Asian. And he targets women with white guys cause they are an easy target for him to hate.

    Again, I think it’s really stupid for anyone to say they only date a certain race. I’ve seen both Asian men and women say they only date white. It’s naive and stupid.

    But calling the women whores and other bad words aren’t going to draw them any closer to you.

  207. Indieking’s comments at the blog he linked to (Ben Efsaneyim’s) are quite illuminating too.

    He advocates “intimidating” Asian women who date white guys.

    Later he says: “Ive dated enough non-asians, asian-only from now on, thanks.”

    In other words, he’s dated non-Asians (including white, presumably), but if a woman was to do that, well she’s a skank and deserving of intimidation.

  208. ES wrote: In other words, he’s dated non-Asians (including white, presumably), but if a woman was to do that, well she’s a skank and deserving of intimidation.

    I think what In-dick-king is is referring to when saying who he’s dated is probably some sick twisted imaginary World of Warcraft version of dating. I doubt anyone want to date him in the true sense of the word. He’s definitely never had sex with any of these women he’s “dated.”

  209. “Dated” is such a non-committal word. It could mean he went out with a few women and it went nowhere because there was no connection, it fizzled out, they could not click, they were repulsed.

    All of that counts as “dating” also as long as you bought her dinner, coffee or a drink.

    Just like being “in a relationship” really. What in the world does it really mean? Especially when you find out later that this was a “long distance” relationship. Meaning that there was very little sex involved. I mean seen in this light even the actual nature of any relationship being present could be in doubt.

    Essentially this is placing too much importance on the testimony of sollipsists.

  210. I’ve been away for a while!

    Some things I have to say:

    1) The opinions of Hapas should be respected as a valid point of view, but unless they look 100% Asian, they can’t fully know what it’s like to be an Asian who doesn’t get the social benefit of either passing or having “white features.” In other words, a Hapa who looks more Latino than anything else and who grew up in a very white household doesn’t exactly have the ground experience of a full Asian who grew up in an immigrant household.

    2) Being bullied by Asian kids when you were young sucks, but in the larger context, it pales in comparison to the uneven social playing field between Asian men and White men. It’s like a cool kid complaining that he got “oppressed” by the D&D crowd that shunned him.

    3) Ever check out the Twitter hashtag #BlackPowerIsForBlackMen? I think it’s incredibly illuminating to know how anti-racism and anti-sexism aren’t always aligned together. Essentially, what a lot of us Asian guys here are complaining about is #AsianPrideIsForAsianWomen(AndWhiteMen), right? It’s not unique to Asian Americans, though perhaps it’s unique in that in our group, it’s generally the women that are advantaged by White society rather than the men. There was once a TV survey that found that Asian Americans were the ONLY racial demographic in which the women were represented more than the men. Given how phallo-centric our media is, even with minorities, this was quite astounding.

    Too often, it seems that movements like “Black Power” is just a way for Black men to aspire to keep the power structure as is, only with Black men in place of White men. And with “Asian Pride” espoused by many Asian women, their real goal is to simply displace White women at the top of the hierarchy. Neither the Black men nor the Asian women have any real vested interest in pulling up members of the opposite sex of their own race with them. They just want to co-opt the White supremacist power structure.

  211. @ Eric

    Regarding the relations between Black men and Asian men:

    Rivalry between these 2 group of guys does exist in real life, and it’s not only about dating WFs. Good looking and very successful Asian men will tell you that they have some green eyed guys of other races watching them.

    White and Black men can relate well with each other. Believe or not, I have seen pretty White women with Black men hanging out with White men. They seem to be OK about it. Asian dudes could never be in this situation, either in a crowd of Black or White guys. We are different, foreign and pose a certain uneasiness as “the other” .

  212. How would Asian women ever supplant white women in white society? LOL, in the western world, white girls will always be Queen bitch.

  213. What is this rivalry against black men bullshit? If black guys are going out with white girls, I mean… I used to think it was good for me. Now I think it doesn’t affect me — because each relationship is kind of like a proponent for more of the same relationship. Yes, somewhere in there are brains are keeping score of all the IR relationships. White guys happen to be winning severely right now; I wonder though what will happen when they can no longer hoard white women.

    White girls are already complaining that there aren’t enough guys available. Because they mean “white guys” — and they are having a hard time dealing with all these player type white guys, who fuck and then bounce.

  214. In short, I see black guys dating white girls as a positive. Even though it doesn’t help me as much as it does socially for another black guy, seeing the stranglehold on white women by white men be broken down a little — is always a good thing.

  215. Though I realize anything not involving Warhammer elves and pixie dust will put some to sleep, I still wanted to reply to Eric’s post.

    @Eric:

    I think that guys have to be careful about overvaluing White women, because it cuts their dating pool severely. There are all kinds of girls who are smart, beautiful, and have a clue about what it’s like to live as a minority as well.

    I also believe that elevating white women, and desiring to be with them primarily as a way to get back at white dudes, can hurt whatever moral high ground AM’s have in regards to IR; it’s essentially engaging in the same behavior that is being criticized, IMO.

    I’m not saying some of the feeling is justified, but I think at the very least guys should think of it in terms of self-interest: i.e., how will a White girl feel about a guy wanting to date her, not because the man values her, but because there’s some collective White dude in the back of his mind that he wants to get back at?

  216. I also believe that elevating white women, and desiring to be with them primarily as a way to get back at white dudes, can hurt whatever moral high ground AM’s have in regards to IR; it’s essentially engaging in the same behavior that is being criticized, IMO.

    Cosign

  217. You should ask Hugo Schwyzer, Notty. He got the act of being a nice guy down to an art. You would know, wouldn’t you?

  218. NLP cannot make anyone do something they weren’t inclined to do in the first place. If it had that power, I would’ve tried using it to make you stop all that auto-fellatio.

  219. Yes of course, just like how NLP wouldn’t work on a chick unless they’d like it in the first place, so this is an excuse to violate the boundaries of all those other women who are creeped out by such advances.

  220. This is why you fail at anything other than Warhammer.

    NLP has nothing to do with violating boundaries, nor do people need to like NLP or any kind of influence for it to work– they just have to like an outcome.

  221. Not my fault that your person is virtually synonymous with the concept. Every time a post of yours comes up, it’s very hard not to picture you in the act. Raguel = self-sucking guy.

    Would anyone be surprised if the dictionary had “auto-fellatio” right next to a picture of Raguel in the act?

  222. Well I don’t think elevating white women by Asian American men has anything to do at getting back at the white men for dating Asian American women.

    I believe just like Asian American women, Asian American men are exposed to the idea that white is prettier and better. Just drive down the street of any big town and you’ll see billboards of nothing but images of white women.

    Unfortunately, this white woman exposure has hurt Asian American males in dating since the woman they expect to obtain are the ones they see on those billboards, TV shows, Movies, porn etc.

    The problem is, this type of women they see in those forms of media aren’t real either. Most of them don’t look anything they look in person.

    Look at the PUA companies, what kind of woman do they plaster on their websites?
    Unfortunate these sleazoids use that to sell their product. It’s like someone saying I can sell you love potion. Would anyone buy love potion?

    Asian American men just like women unfortunately have been falling for that standard of beauty for years.

  223. @ Notty,

    So you admit to harboring and indulging such sexual fantasies about another person?

    I applaud your courage; admitting it is the first step towards healing.

  224. “Unfortunate these sleazoids use that to sell their product. It’s like someone saying I can sell you love potion. Would anyone buy love potion?’

    Well, they’ve certainly begun selling pheromones.

    These Pick Up companies had nothing to sell in the first place apart from fantasies and ideas. It’s not just the companies, the individuals and proponents – the “stay behind army” of a dying industry does it too – sell ideas and fantasies.

    It’s like WWF. It’s all fake, but if you sell it hard enough you create a make believe world where it is real.

  225. Also it’s a never ending cycle. Marketing companies are forced to put images of White people because they know that’s how they can sell their product since white is considered the world standard of beauty. I was in Hong Kong not too long ago and within the city, there were many images of white women on billboards as well.

  226. Raguel, it’s less of a fantasy, and more like a nightmare come true. At the very least, we know that you truly love yourself.

  227. Richard Parker wrote: It’s like WWF. It’s all fake, but if you sell it hard enough you create a make believe world where it is real.

    At least the WWF is entertaining at times. And there’s also risk involved, those guys hurt themselves all time for the sake of entertaining the audience. I don’t know any good qualities in the whole PUA bootcamp culture. I see more negative like buying into the white women worshipping thing.

  228. “Also it’s a never ending cycle. Marketing companies are forced to put images of White people because they know that’s how they can sell their product since white is considered the world standard of beauty. I was in Hong Kong not too long ago and within the city, there were many images of white women on billboards as well.”

    What can you do? These same people the ads target have implanted beliefs and ideas that are now sacrosanct.

  229. @Moroboshi

    Yeah, the standards of beauty cannot be denied as an influence– perhaps the main and most insiduous one.

    At the same time, the idea that white guy’s stranglehold on x or y type of women need to be broken, seems to me as a driving factor as well, in a “Take that, Charisma Man!” type of way– and I don’t know that you necessarily want that specter around something that’s between you and a particular woman.

  230. “At least the WWF is entertaining at times. And there’s also risk involved, those guys hurt themselves all time for the sake of entertaining the audience. I don’t know any good qualities in the whole PUA bootcamp culture. I see more negative like buying into the white women worshipping thing.”

    WWF has a certain demographic, the vulnerable are the young without the support of strong and modernity-adept institutions.

    The displays of aggression are highly ritualised and children pick up on it very fast, even if they don’t understand the make believe nature of all the other stuff.

  231. If it bothers you so much, the solution is simple Notty:

    Don’t indulge in such fantasies anymore.

  232. You gave away your secret auto-erotic habit as soon as you revealed your fantasies involving mutual masturbation– unprompted, mind you. Must be hard to type all that nonsense you post when your head is between your legs.

  233. Parker eh? So you changed from raguel of kobolds and goblins to Richard Parker.

    Is that the Parker that’s Spider-Man’s father?

    Welcome to the fighting read you warhammer Internet warrior bitch.

  234. Nottyboy, I guess we hurt warhammer bitchs feelings so he changed his handle.

    Lol Parker pretending to be a new person. As if we wouldn’t recognize his unique stupidity.

    Motherfuck you Parker.

  235. Admission is the first step to recovery but then Notty slips two steps backwards immediately after. ROFL!

  236. “Nottyboy, I guess we hurt warhammer bitchs feelings so he changed his handle.

    Lol Parker pretending to be a new person. As if we wouldn’t recognize his unique stupidity.”

    Pretending? I sign in to this site with the same email I use to sign in as Raguel.

    I am one and the same.

    I’m afraid it is you who has the unique stupidity.

  237. @Asianguy

    Well, I would recognize the chest-beating, impotent style anywhere, but it just so happens that the dude is not as smart as he thinks he is. He forgot to change his email address, so his avatar is still the same.

    Of course, he’ll just say that he chose not to change the email address.

    @Raguel

    That’s why you’ll never recover from having your head between your legs. You won’t face your habit head on because it shames you. You’re unconscious, however, will always make you do the things that you’re inclined to do in the first place– i.e., internet chest beating, auto-fellatio, cowardice, etc.

  238. Parker the Internet warrior bitch, saving the world one Internet argument at a time.

    Moroboshi, I’m in SoCal right now on vacation. I will be puaing hardcore this weekend at the clubs.

  239. Hahaha, you’ve got that catty act down so well, Notty. It’s like it comes so naturally. A wild guess would have me place you as growing up with too many sisters and not enough strong male figures in your life. Is that why you complain so much about how society keeps the man down? ROFL!

    Come and do the video with me if you dare Notty. Otherwise, keep on chattering back and forth with your Gossip Girls.

    In the meantime, I will speak to you in the language you will understand:

    Talk to the hand because the face ain’t listening.

    😀

  240. Of course, the face is between your legs because you’re sucking yourself off.

    What makes you think I would do a video with you? Having mutual masturbation fantasies again?

    First of all, I’m married, and second of all you should be posting at the Birdcage blog.

  241. http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-206695

    Signing in with the same email is dumb. Signing in with fake emails is real smart. Genius level six years of college earning triple degrees smart.

    ROFL

    Since you’re in SoCal now, make sure to take some videos of yourself doing Pick Up Arts and living the high life. I’m not interested in seeing anything else during the weekend, you could do Two Guys One Cup with Notty and I wouldn’t even care.

  242. You’re married Notty, so is that why you talk about the gay stuff so much?

    Did you learn this from some “bad boys” in PUA? Or more unfortunately, when you were younger? 🙁

    I’m afraid you’ve been tricked, Notty. Someone relentless accusing you of being a bitch, does not make it true.

    So you didn’t have to do all those things you did.

    ROFLMAO!

  243. Oh I’m sorry for not using my personal or work email to post on an Internet board that has obsessive, stalker and psychotic trolls like yourself. Why don’t I just post my LinkedIn account to make it easier for you to stalk me?

    /sarcasm

  244. Ironic, coming from the guy who first posted about mutual masturbation between guys. Dude, no one needs to clown you because you do it yourself so well.

  245. By the way, Raguel, everyone is still waiting for you to do your video and prove all the shit you talk. Or do you still plan to fail at living up to your own standards?

    “ROFL”

  246. @ Asianguy

    Because there’s nothing to see on your LinkedIn account.

    Your signing in with fake emails is really less about anyone wanting to stalk you as opposed to you having something to hide.

    @ Nottyboy

    I think you are talking about yourself, especially when you take into consideration who began obsessive-compulsively posting lurid and repetitive descriptions of gay sexual acts.

    Nobody else has done such a thing here, but you. So the clown more accurately describes yourself, if there is one in the first place. 😀 As opposed to just a psychologically disturbed individual. 🙁

    Does it excite you to behave in such a repulsive manner? Do tell Notty, all the doctors want to know.

  247. I think you are talking about yourself, especially when you take into consideration who began obsessive-compulsively posting lurid and
    repetitive descriptions of gay sexual acts.

    Ha, you can’t ignore the fact that you first brought up mutual masturbation, in a dumb attempt at using homosexuality as a slur. So first you use racial slurs, and now that. Tsk tsk.

    Also, your acts of auto-fellatio can only be gay if you consider yourself to be gay. It’d be like saying my dog is gay because he licks his balls. All your auto-fellatio proves is that you’re a lonely nerd who can’t find anyone, gay or straight, to give him a hummer.

  248. Nice deflect, but it doesn’t erase the fact that you brought up homosexuality first, and tried to use it as a slur.

    Now go back to being the lonely nerd who thought PUA would make him “more normal“.

  249. So I threw the ball and you just ran with it? Is that it Notty? LOL, but you ran with that ball way past the finish line, and you certainly took the time to mongle that ball graphically in full view of the public too. It’s all up there in what you wrote.

    You’re telling us now, you have a wife, I started it first, performing a blowjob on yourself is not really gay. Etc.

    Still doesn’t explain what you did up there buddy. Doesn’t explain anything at all. ROFL!

  250. Well, I just stated an obvious fact about you, but your mind made the link between two different things. I don’t think auto-fellatio makes Raguel gay, but it definitely makes Raguel pitiful, since Raguel is not a canine (but possibly a rodent).

    Auto fellatio = last resort of lonely warhammer nerds, ergo raguel = desperate warhammer nerd. Mucho simple, entiende?

  251. Such musings will no doubt help you write the defining novel of the times, regarding whether auto-fellatio is gay or not, and the ways it is performed. You already have the first chapter written up there in this post, I have to admit the ability to put in such detail to create paragraphs so chockful of content indicates passion and dedication to the subject.

    If you are going to use one of my online handles, will you pay me royalty or give acknowledgement? “Inspired by” your muse will be nice.

    But more importantly, will you place a disclaimer at the beginning of your book, that all the “facts” described there-in are really “for entertainment purposes only”, meaning they are not really “facts”, just like how your “Ericksonian hypnosis” is not real therapy anymore than WWF is real wrestling, just like what all the other Pick Up Arts shills do?

    These are indeed questions. Do tell us, we all want to know about your next life project.

  252. Well, since you keep bringing up hypnosis, here are some self-affirmations I thought up just for you, Raguel, a.k.a. “Richard Parker”:

    I, Raguel, always make it obvious through my metaphorically auto-fellating posts that I also indulge in actual physical auto-fellating.

    I, Raguel, acknowledge that engaging in auto-fellatio makes me a pitiful, lonely loser to the point that I make warhammer nerds look good.

    I, Raguel, a.k.a. “Richard Parker”, a.k.a. the auto-fellator, will not change handles to hide the fact that not only I am a racist bigot, and anti-gay, but a rabid auto-fellator.

    I, Raguel, proudly flaunt my auto-erotic tendencies.

    I, Raguel, acknowledge that my lame “comebacks” just remind others that I’m merely an embarrassed auto-fellator desperately trying to look cool.

    From now on, just refer to this post, or the one I’m linking on my handle any time you want a response to your nonsense.

  253. Not interested bro, I don’t believe in that mumbo jumbo, but thanks for taking the time.

  254. Haha resident Eurasian tagteam getting pissy and name calling over the self hating Asian Edna, even after the evidence is planted right under their noses.

    Convince a Eurasian about anti-Asian agendas , the biggest irony going. Debate will never end.

  255. In-Dick-King again shows why he deserves to be called in-DICK-King. Yes folks, he’s the king of the dicks!

  256. @ indieking:

    your “evidence” to justify calling someone a skank is fairly flimsy. Just like your idea that someone who is genetically Asian must conform to a particular set of values or else be “self-hating”.

    Meanwhile, the evidence speaks for itself in your case; you are on record as advocating the intimidation of Asian women who don’t date whoever you deem appropriate, despite admitting yourself that you have dated non-Asians.

  257. Byron,

    Just a friendly suggestion, you should close any thread which is not receiving any post relevant to the topic. No matter how long the thread has been, no matter how long you’ve known any posters here, no matter how much they have contributed to the post, just for the sake of your thread integrity and relevancy, don’t try to save face or do nothing. Just close it no matter who did it. Even if I did, just shut me down. You’re done giving a pre-post that some poster should go to which thread, after that, if you’re still seeing the activity, close the thread.

    The relevancy of comments and your post degenerate over time. It is not a dictatorship of your ownership of the blog, it is the rational act of protecting the relevancy of the post. That will further attract any viewers by chance to contribute intellectually and logically. Although some of the topics have overlapping areas where one could trespass into, some posts have become an speakeasy where one just comes and talks whatever he wants. You can refer to the appropriate post or temporarily close the thread.

    Most of the threads have become a battleground for arguing and trying to get the last comment post. It becomes more and more yahoo-like comment session instead of arguing back or discussing the nitty gritty of the issue.

    And this comment does not belong to any post, so I posted here.

  258. Thanks, Bint. I actually am trying to keep comments more relevant (which is why I just created this Ad Hom post). I like to keep threads open in case there are later developments that people can tell me about. Hopefully people can appeal to the “greater good” and encourage fighters to come to this thread. Let’s see how it works.

  259. @ indieking:
    your “evidence” to justify calling someone a skank is fairly flimsy. Just like your idea that someone who is genetically Asian must conform to a particular set of values or else be “self-hating”.
    Meanwhile, the evidence speaks for itself in your case; you are on record as advocating the intimidation of Asian women who don’t date whoever you deem appropriate, despite admitting yourself that you have dated non-Asians.

    I agree. Like I said, this kind of stuff cedes any moral high ground AM’s might have in the first place. And even if one were to look at it with self-interest in mind, I can’t see how any of that is even pragmatic if what you want is to bring Asian women back into the fold.

    I believe in Byron’s approach in that he’s highlighting the benefits of having a “Community Club”, rather than promoting something that in the end will be destructive.

  260. Pozhal wrote: 1) The opinions of Hapas should be respected as a valid point of view, but unless they look 100% Asian, they can’t fully know what it’s like to be an Asian who doesn’t get the social benefit of either passing or having “white features.” In other words, a Hapa who looks more Latino than anything else and who grew up in a very white household doesn’t exactly have the ground experience of a full Asian who grew up in an immigrant household.

    With this brand of logic, would a person who is tall, fit and good looking understand what an overweight, short and ugly person goes through? If the tall and fit person advised the overweight person maybe he can go to the gym and work on his looks, would that be bad advise since he’s never lived the life of the overweight person?
    You can basically say that about everyone in the world. No one but YOU knows what you’re going through. So why even post on a blog? Why discuss things? I think everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether you agree with it or not that’s something entirely different. I sometimes think it is good to get an opinion from someone who hasn’t lived in my shoes since his views will not be skewed based on how the world has treated me but looks at things with a more common sense approach that I may not see, i.e. King does.

  261. I feel embarassed to interject but

    “With this brand of logic, would a person who is tall, fit and good looking understand what an overweight, short and ugly person goes through? If the tall and fit person advised the overweight person maybe he can go to the gym and work on his looks, would that be bad advise since he’s never lived the life of the overweight person?”

    It would be, because we never really know what life is like for another person. There are similarities and commonalities yes, but also many divergences, some of them severe. Even a formerly overweight person may not necessarily advise an overweight person well, because what is weight but what our eyes tell us? What about the other things? The genes maybe, the metabolism, any diseases or differences, under the skin? Or maybe other factors. There are many other factors and considerations.

    “No one but YOU knows what you’re going through. So why even post on a blog? Why discuss things? I think everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether you agree with it or not that’s something entirely different. I sometimes think it is good to get an opinion from someone who hasn’t lived in my shoes since his views will not be skewed based on how the world has treated me but looks at things with a more common sense approach that I may not see, i.e. King does.”

    Opinions.. are just opinions. Without empathy opinions are worthless. The problem I struggle with is that some positions are not deserving of any empathy at all.

  262. Moroboshi,

    Is that a serious question? Of course it’d be extremely difficult for a conventionally attractive person to really know what it’s like to grow up ugly and unwanted, or for a smart person to know what it’s like to struggle with academics, or for the wealthy to know what it’s like to be poor.

  263. My point is that few of posters here seem to ignore someone’s opinion based on what race they are instead of bringing up why that person’s opinion is wrong. The whole “you don’t know what Im going through” although valid brings nothing to a debate. This is completely asinine when you have chinese posters like Chr who think American Asian men are inferior to all other races, not just whites.

  264. Moroboshi,

    Nobody’s ignoring anybody’s opinion. Or at least I’m not.

    What I am saying is that experience lends differing levels of credibility.

    I’m sorry if you feel that that excludes you somewhat, but that’s reality. Just like how men should listen to women first when it comes to women’s issues, or how White people should listen to Black people when it comes to anti-Black racism.

    Pure reason can’t always substitute for experience.

  265. Pozhal wrote: I’m sorry if you feel that that excludes you somewhat, but that’s reality. Just like how men should listen to women first when it comes to women’s issues, or how White people should listen to Black people when it comes to anti-Black racism.

    – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment

    I wasn’t talking about myself. But I have seen hypocrisy where if ES says something they don’t agree with, it must be cause he’s Hapa. If Nottyboy posts something they agree with, it doesn’t matter off he isn’t Asian but important that he agrees.
    And if we as Men should listen to women first, why have we seen many written attacks on Asian women on this blog?

  266. My take on credibility of poster’s opinion on certain issues AA faces is directly proportionally to poster’s ethnicity. That direct proportionality only goes to the threshold where I could absorb their opinions based on the same level of experience both parties in discussion could have had in their lives. It’s equivalent to skipping the intro part. From the threshold onwards, the proportionality varies depending on how the other party sounds and makes judgment. Again the level of discussion we’ll be having with Frank Chin in today 2013 would be totally different from what we would have had in his prime days. This is not to say ethnicity alone can compensate for any deficiency in one’s logic and reasoning.

    The question of “Does ethnicity of one poster matter in expressing their opinions?”, the short answer is resounding “Yes”.

    The long answer is “What sort of discussion or topic we’re having here?”

    My short answer to resounding yes is you have to take into account of “Asian American Activism” memo in your definition of “Activism”. If we’re talking about “global warming”, the issue of ethnicity would holds the same weight as the potato chip you’re eating on the discussion table.

    When it comes to real life situation AA faces daily, working hours, social activities, personal interactions, no amount of personal empathy from other races can replace or embrace what Asians/Asian Americans as a whole faces throughout AA history. The same goes for any AA viewpoints potentially different from African American’s in certain issues when you talk about the issues intrinsic to Black community. You can understand each other issues, but the fact that you understand more about non-Asian/non-African racial issues doesn’t give you the benefit of getting the treatment as you would have received if you were the other race.

    The example is PUA issue. The PUA does not confine its area like “Pro-PUA” as Asian American dreams, or “Anti-PUA” as all else themes. It just so happened that PUA comes in disguise as a solution to IR disparity AA faces these days, or specifically AA males. The bottom line is this issue attracts any person of color or ethnicity and beyond to discuss what they think is PUA, is not actually what they think it is, and vice versa.

    Now if we narrow down the issue to AA in college admission, any person of Asian ethnicity could relate to the issue equivalently, inclusive of AA males and females. The issue affects both genders equally. The talking point becomes more of Asian American community as whole. Blacks/White/Hispanics/Mixed can sympathize with the quota system set upon AA. But the sympathy only goes as far as one could stretch out his arms and start hitting the keyboard.

    The same goes for any African Americans could have gone through their daily lives. My understanding of African American culture/religion/heroes/community does not afford me to experience like they do daily. If I were to express my opinions like “You all should work harder instead of complaining about institutionalized racism” would count as “zero” if I had made such a comment like Chinesemom did in other threads. Opinion is opinion. One could take someone else opinion as a “dot” in his train of thought to construct his cause. But the credibility of one’s opinion oftentimes falls flat when it comes to talking about a bigger issue at hand if you’re NOT one of them. If the same opinion came from the coterie of their racial fellows, it’s more believable. Again even if there’s a rational one standing up in the coterie to encourage their people, it’s less common of an event than those who would express strongly and aggressively their opinions.

    Tim Wise could have said better, and he has. But next morning when he wakes up, his empathy with Black people goes out of the window as he steps out of his house to grab a coffee at Starbuck. This is not to say he’s a scrub. His understanding of Black people is not a typical person with textbook can do. But in reality, no amount of his sympathy can replace the people reaction/interaction what a Black person does.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/07/opinion/coates-the-good-racist-people.html?_r=1&

    Tim wise is only an anti-racism activist, let alone considering the Oscar winner ordeal here.

    The fact that King’s opinions on certain AA issues hold true is not because of his ethnicity, but because he stays in the middle ground instead of taking a swipe with an upper hand like “You guys are wimp, hit the gym, just go out and talk to women!” For certain issues as a whole, he uses his logics. That’s what makes his arguments more reasonable to bear with it. For eg. HBD, PUA, but just because his arguments hold true in those issues doesn’t mean he would completely feel like some AA males do when it comes to dealing with IR. Coming across on the street with AFWM pairs, he would have noticed the pairs, nothing more than that. Talking with Asian girls casually, he would have noticed nothing. The leverage Asian girls (specifically Asian American girls) hold is subtle, yet powerful.

    Coming back to our question of “Does ethnicity matter in expressing one’s opinion?” yes, it does and depends on which sort of topic we’re dealing with.

    My point is Tim Wise lives by understanding of Black people. King deals with his soul and every waking hours of lives. The same goes for AA as well. King lives by understanding of AA. But AA lives by their soul and lives.

    Does all of these mean any person with different ethnicity should not bother to chime in their opinions? Of course not, everybody can talk and listen. But most often, you can expect the outburst of bottling up angst against racism coming from the victimhood, not from the other party who holds the upper hands. No Black persons will become militant and start cursing for AA IR disparity, neither would AAs publicly go out and label those Black dude as “Sellout”. The core of the matter is because the receiving ends are different.

    Talking about this IR and that IR, I believe understanding between AA males and females have way more passed the talking point. That is not to say we’re not willing to listen.

  267. @ Eric

    Moroboshi accused me of saying that Asian American guys have it the worse. Of course it’s very poignant to say that AMs have it worse, given the fact that we have to work harder in the professional and social front, just to be on equal standing with other guys of similar credentials. We may have stellar credentials, and that doesn’t mean much at the end, since AMs are usually seen as invisible in many facets of American life.

  268. Moroboshi,

    The basic fact is that there are certain crucial experiences that one cannot possibly have experienced unless you look a certain way. I, for example, will never know what it’s like to be Hapa and to have two racial identities. My input, at best, will be minimal and probably naive, even if well-intentioned. On the other hand, I know what it’s like to be full and unmistakably Asian. I would expect anybody who hasn’t had the 100% Asian male experience to at least defer to me in some degree.

    As for the gender issue, that gets complicated because of the intersection between race and gender here. That’s what makes non-white feminism difficult to deal with, because here we have men trying to approach Asian women’s issues from a racial standpoint (where they have experience and knowledge) while there’s also the area of women’s issues (where Asian guys don’t have as much experience). That’s why #SolidarityIsForWhiteWomen and #BlackPowerIsForBlackMen exist.

    That’s the eternal misunderstanding between Asian men and women, right? Asian men are always more focused on the racial angle, while women have to take into account both race and gender. And neither side can agree where their common interests lie.

  269. And Bint is 100% correct.

    And an outsider who empathizes with the out-group almost always has more credibility than an outsider who talks down to the out-group because the natural tendency of human beings is to ignore or belittle problems that do not affect them. That’s why King, despite being an outsider, has a lot of credibility. If he were one of those non-Asian guys who said that racial biases were natural or that Asian men were naturally unattractive, then his opinion would be largely worthless. But because he takes a reasoned approach to empathizing with a group that he doesn’t “belong” to, his credibility skyrockets because he has nothing to gain by doing so.

  270. But I find it interesting based on what someone writes, some posters accuse that person of not being Asian. This is completely illogical and stupid since there has been countless full blooded Asians who have written things not agreed upon by the masses.

    With that brand of logic, black conservatives like Larry elder could not be 100% black since the stuff he says is unpopular to the black community.

  271. I looked up lee hom and it looks like he is going to be starring in a superhero film. I believe Pozhal mentioned this. So if this fails, are you all going to say Hollywood is racist for not casting asian male leads? I will say hollywood is racist if this is a sucess and he never sees another role again.

  272. The fact that King’s opinions on certain AA issues hold true is not because of his ethnicity, but because he stays in the middle ground instead of taking a swipe with an upper hand like “You guys are wimp, hit the gym, just go out and talk to women!” For certain issues as a whole, he uses his logics. That’s what makes his arguments more reasonable to bear with it. For eg. HBD, PUA, but just because his arguments hold true in those issues doesn’t mean he would completely feel like some AA males do when it comes to dealing with IR. Coming across on the street with AFWM pairs, he would have noticed the pairs, nothing more than that. Talking with Asian girls casually, he would have noticed nothing. The leverage Asian girls (specifically Asian American girls) hold is subtle, yet powerful.”

    I agree that ethnicity does play a role in understanding ethnic issues. But what I have always maintained was that the our differences always work both for, and against us. If you have time to waste, I’ll give a little example:

    Grant for a moment that fish could speak:

    A man standing on the shore peers into the shallow when a fishes head breaches the surface of the water. The fish says to the man, “How do you do?”

    The man is shocked, “Was that you who said that? How come you can talk!!?”

    The fish replies, “I don’t know… we fish talk to each other all the time, I’m actually just trying to win a bet. You see, most fish don’t believe that humans can speak, but can only make strange gurgling noises. My theory was that it was the lower ocean surface that disrupted the sound waves, distorting them into a gurgle to we fish, living below.”

    “Wow,” says the man, “This is great! So tell me, what’s it like living down there and being wet all the time?”

    A confused expression crosses the fish’s face. “Wet? …what is wet?”

    Now it’s the man’s turn to be confused. “Wet! You know, under water all the time, instead of on dry land!”

    The fish still looks confused, “What does “dry” mean?

    The man is visibly irritated. “Oh, for Pete’s sake! I’m on dry land right now and you’re wet because you’re in the water!”

    The fish throws back his head and laughs, “Is that what you think? Don’t you people know anything? I am here at the upper boundary of the lower ocean where we fish live. You are standing on a large mountaintop that begins down at the very bottom of the lower ocean. The mountain is so high that it actually rises above the lower ocean’s upper boundary and sticks up a little into the upper ocean where you live!”

    The man insists, “Look, don’t be ridiculous, I’m not in any ocean, I’m standing on dry land and you’re floating in the water!”

    “You are confused,” the fish replies patiently, “it’s actually all the same fluid, it’s just that your layer is much thinner and less substantial than my layer—it goes all the way up where the ocean finally ends and the sky turns black. And also, the whole earth is what you call “land,” that is covered by the two layers of ocean that I described. I’m afraid it is your limited existence confined to these high mountain tops that is confusing your perspective.”

    So which one is right, the man or the fish?

    This is the value of an outside perspective. And these are the limitation of an inside perspective. We are all subject to the limitations of our definitions.

  273. I also said, find hobbies that are interesting to both men and women as well ie, music, art etc. creating a large social group of friends instead of being a stay at home loner also helps.

    If these complainers tried what I said and then came back to me saying it didn’t work at all would be one thing but constantly yell at Asian women and be angry hasn’t helped much, has it?

  274. Moroboshi,

    Hollywood is racist if they think they can give an Asian man a leading role once in a decade and use that movie’s possible failure as justification for keeping Asian men in ridiculous roles for yet another 10 years.

    It’s been a known fact that Hollywood revenues have been in decline for a while now, so much so that Steven Spielberg himself has predicted the total collapse of the industry soon. Since the vast majority of leading roles are White men, I guess perhaps they are the problem?

    If the future of Asian leading men rides on Lee Hom Wang’s movie, then the future of White men as leading men should’ve already been dashed.

  275. Well being a full blooded average height American Asian man, that advise has worked for me. Why is it so wrong for me to pass that along? Ever think you guys are the minority while most Asian American men who don’t frequent blogs think like me?

    If the solution were that simple, then this problem would’ve been solved a long time ago. This is what I’m talking about when I talk about the importance of experience. I’m not sure if you’re Hapa or not, and if you are, how Asian you look. But assuming that you’re an outsider, it never helps when outsiders who are different in some crucial way from the group in question gives glib and generalized advice, and blaming the group along the way for being stupid, weak, lazy, etc.

    Sure, it would greatly help if some Asian guys got into peak physical condition and chatted up a lot of women. But do you honestly think that this is going to solve everything? That Asian men are ignored and ridiculed simply because we’re all flabby wallflowers? We know there’s a bigger problem at hand when someone like Tim Chiou (the 6’2″ handsome Asian actor) can easily recall instances in which women rejected him just for being Asian.

    Internet boasting is the worst, but let me just say that I’m a pretty good-looking Asian guy with natural social skills. I’ve had girls of all races like me. And still, I can greatly sympathize with the struggles that some other Asian guys who don’t have some of my advantages go through, because:

    A) I’m not so selfish that I go around belittling others just because I’ve got mine, and;

    B) I know injustice and discrimination when I see it, and;

    C) Despite doing well for myself, I can still feel the obvious loss of status when I move from an all-Asian group to a predominantly White group. In crude terms, if I’m an 8 among Asian girls, then I become more of a 6 when I’m with White girls, and I have to do way more to prove myself “worthy”. In my experience, non-White non-Asian girls are less discriminating, especially Black and Indian girls. Don’t have much experience with Latinas.

    So sure, sometimes whiny Asian guys need a kick in the ass to get their heads on straight. But we also have to understand where they’re coming from. If you’ve been bombarded with the idea that your race is inherently weak, unattractive, and losery ever since junior high, then the issues run deep and we have to be empathetic.

  276. “I also said, find hobbies that are interesting to both men and women as well ie, music, art etc. creating a large social group of friends instead of being a stay at home loner also helps”.

    I also said that, especially when it comes to meeting Asian women. Who needs PUA when they are so many Asian events and single groups out there?

    “Ever think you guys are the minority while most Asian American men who don’t frequent blogs think like me?”

    How do you that for a fact? I’m sure most people who are observative, Asian and non-Asian, know that the IR disparity is an issue affecting the Asian American community. Non-Asians either observe this casually in public, or personally know Asians to know about it.

  277. I agree that ethnicity does play a role in understanding ethnic issues. But what I have always maintained was that the our differences always work both for, and against us. If you have time to waste, I’ll give a little example

    King, what the scenario you presented tells me is completely different from what I wrote above. Although I wasted my time a little bit, I enjoyed your perspective.

    Let’s say you’re a “fish” and I’m “man” on the shore. Just continuing your analogy. The outlook you brought to the man was applicable in some situation and my outlook would be applicable to you too. Like hanging out with friends together.

    Man: Do you hang out often? If so, how do you do?
    Fish: Of course, we do, we usually swim in groups and inhabit as we please
    Man: The same as we do. I usually hang out with my friends too.

    That’s the issue we can talk about. But when it comes to breathing

    Man: Why don’t you come up shore and enjoy with me breathing fresh air?
    Fish: I can’t. Even if I know how you guys breathe out of thin air, we fish can’t do that. We need a solid liquid filled with oxygen. That’s our life source.

    This is the fundamental. We can understand each other, but we can’t apply on some other issues which are intrinsic to each own.

    But I do appreciate your input and perspective.

    @Moroboshi,

    First I thought I’m gonna let this go. But giving you the benefit of the doubt, oftentimes when you can’t come up with reasoning and logics, don’t take a swipe like I agree with King. Makes more sense than the stuff Bint is trying to sell.

    Don’t come up with such a comment because it doesn’t serve as constructive and you’re oftentimes twisting the scenario I always come up with. By saying that, it’s as if You agree with everything King said, and all the stuff I said are diametrically opposite of what King said.

    What King said is sometimes outsider’s perspective can be refreshing and worth a try, which I didn’t deny in my post at all, all I’m saying is “Ethnicity does play a role when it comes to violence and aggression.” which King already stated I agree that ethnicity does play a role in understanding ethnic issues.

    You, on the other hand, just because I have a different point of view in this ethnicity issue and Hollywood, you don’t come up with facts, you’re just slashing everywhere without any proper discussion of the point.

    If I come up with “link”, you retort as “spam sites or porn site”
    If I come up with reasoning, you think I’m selling something which is nothing to do with the discussion we’re having.

    Although your strategy of posting here as “sarcastic”, “nonchalant”, “provocative” sometimes works in your favor for the sake of finishing up the arguments with the last comment, it indeed does serve as a barrier for fruitful discussion.

    The reason I brought up King in the past 2 post is because almost everybody here argues or discuss with their reasoning at best, while you, on the other hand, didn’t come up with reasoning and logics, rather mocking and backing up with “I agree with King.”, “King makes sense.” which in a way kind of show you as a weakling without a brain.

    And besides, I do appreciate much more insight from King’s than yours because the level of discussion King brought to the table was cordial and discuss-able, let alone King’s ethnicity issue here. You are, on the other hand, full-blooded 100% Asian American and come up with mockery and sarcasm when it’s not warranted and ruin the discussion.

    And Again, King, I agree with your perspective and we both agreed that “ethnicity does play a role in certain ethnic issues.”

    So Moroboshi, do you think I’m trying to sell something here? Or are you?

  278. Pozhal wrote: Hollywood is racist if they think they can give an Asian man a leading role once in a decade and use that movie’s possible failure as justification for keeping Asian men in ridiculous roles for yet another 10 years. – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-207836

    Why is it Hollywood’s responsibility to hire Asian American men as leading men? Do groups of Asians in America boycott films that don’t feature any Asians like the black community does? You keep pointing out how racist hollywood is yet never bring up how we as the Asian community are indifferent to watching whether a film features an Asian or not.

    Pozhal wrote: It’s been a known fact that Hollywood revenues have been in decline for a while now, so much so that Steven Spielberg himself has predicted the total collapse of the industry soon. Since the vast majority of leading roles are White men, I guess perhaps they are the problem? – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-207836

    Are you sure of that or is it Hollywood isn’t making as much money as it WANTS to.
    I remember reading something about a guy who wrote a blockbuster film. The studio accountants found a way to not give him any profits by making it seem that it did not make any money. This was one of those big successful films. I forget the name but this happens all the time.

    Just cause Stephen Spielberg says a collapse will happen doesn’t mean it will. If it does, I guess those executive producers / directors like him who get paid tons of money for everything they do will just have to take less money. I was talking to a few of my friends who are struggling in this industry telling me how a lot of stuff shot in California is being moved to cheaper places cause of the tax break. Do you know who was affected? Not the executive producers, directors, star actors or the studio who will always get their money but the worker bees who don’t make much money lose their jobs to someone in another state or most of the time, another country.

    Pozhal wrote: If the future of Asian leading men rides on Lee Hom Wang’s movie, then the future of White men as leading men should’ve already been dashed. – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-207836

    Is it good business to cater to a group of people who don’t seem to care much about seeing an Asian person as the star of a film or not?

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Hollywood like most of the entertainment industry is out to make money. I don’t think you can say an industry is racist if they are willing to put out whatever as long as it makes them money.

    I can agree that it is a greedy industry but racist? Nah.

  279. I equate those who predict a collapse of the industry to those who believed the world would end in 2012.

    And Bint, don’t act all self righteous and pure. I’ve read some of your posts that have backhanded comments. You aren’t all innocent as you say you are.

  280. Moroboshi said: But I find it interesting based on what someone writes, some posters accuse that person of not being Asian. This is completely illogical and stupid since there has been countless full blooded Asians who have written things not agreed upon by the masses.

    With that brand of logic, black conservatives like Larry elder could not be 100% black since the stuff he says is unpopular to the black community.

    Accusing someone of not being Asian because one finds his/her opinions objectionable isn’t a very mature form of argument, but it does have a legitimate basis in that it’s accusing the poster of lacking the necessary experience to truly understand the issue at hand.

    The issue of race and political beliefs is a very touchy one. People belonging to a racial group should be allowed to have different opinions, but White conservatives shouldn’t be able to discredit the complaints of a minority group just because they can dig up a Michelle Malkin or a Larry Elder. That assumes that minority groups all obey some kind of hivemind, and that to find a SINGLE crack in the facade means that all our complaints are made-up and lack credibility.

    And as I said before, the natural tendency is for the powerful group to silence/belittle the marginalized groups. Moreover, there is great incentive for some members of the marginalized group to parrot the lines of the powerful group, whereas there’s a much greater conflict of interest for a member of the powerful group to identify with the marginalized group. That’s why a Michelle Malkin has less credibility than, say, a Tim Wise.

  281. Moroboshi,

    The greater problem is a societal one. Why is it that in Korea, a film like Snowpiercer (which stars a White guy as the hero and has a mostly non-Asian cast) can become its greatest hit, while in America, audiences apparently can’t stomach the sight of a non-White male hero in their movies?

    I’m not saying that Hollywood has a responsibility to cast an X number of Asian male leads. But when the story calls for one, it should make a good faith effort to cast an Asian man in the lead role, in the same way that you wouldn’t cast Queen Latifah for the role of Benjamin Franklin. So far, it has failed dismally on this account.

    Moreover, while Hollywood has a great aversion to casting Asian men in positive roles, it seems to have no problem in scrounging up Asian men in emasculating and humiliating roles. It’s not that Hollywood ignores us; it’s just that it ignores us for the good parts, but LOVES us when it needs a butt monkey.

    I’m not sure where you get the idea that the Asian American community is totally indifferent to Hollywood racism. Many of us were upset about “21” and “The Last Airbender”, and there’s going to be hellfire if “Akira” goes ahead. Oh, just because we didn’t turn “Bullet To The Head” into the next “Die Hard”, we have lost all credibility as a demographic?

    The Asian American community does care, but we’re only 5% of the national demographic. That’s why we have to try to gain allies among non-Asians, and that’s what sites like Racebending and other like-minded muckrakers are trying to do. This, in conjunction with other measures such as increased participation among Asians in creative industries, is the way forward.

    We need the complainers, we need the doers, we need everybody.

  282. Pozhal wrote:Moreover, while Hollywood has a great aversion to casting Asian men in positive roles, it seems to have no problem in scrounging up Asian men in emasculating and humiliating roles. It’s not that Hollywood ignores us; it’s just that it ignores us for the good parts, but LOVES us when it needs a butt monkey. – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-207842

    Not true either. It has gotten much better than it has been. Before, all you had was long duck dong, now you are seeing many more Asian Americans in film and especially Tv rolls that aren’t just emasculating or humiliating. John Cho has gotten roles in both films and tv consistently. Unfortunately, his tv shows have not been very successful.

    I think we need more asian parents to appreciate when their kids want to work in the entertainment industry instead of almost disowning them. for mostly Gen X. It was unacceptable. Not sure how it is with Gen Y. Hopefully the next gen are encouraged to take chances.

    And there has been us films that have been taken by an Asian country and turned into an Asian film ie “Sideways.” The entertainment industry is just giving what the people want or what they think they want. Unless they are shown otherwise, it won’t change.

  283. Pozhal wrote:The greater problem is a societal one. Why is it that in Korea, a film like Snowpiercer (which stars a White guy as the hero and has a mostly non-Asian cast) can become its greatest hit, while in America, audiences apparently can’t stomach the sight of a non-White male hero in their movies?

    The term non white is incorrect since there are plenty of films starring a black or Latino man as the main character.

  284. And Bint, don’t act all self righteous and pure. I’ve read some of your posts that have backhanded comments. You aren’t all innocent as you say you are.

    Yes, I agree. I’m not 100% innocent and pure. My mind is as dirty as primordial soup.

  285. That’s the issue we can talk about. But when it comes to breathing
    Man: Why don’t you come up shore and enjoy with me breathing fresh air?
    Fish: I can’t. Even if I know how you guys breathe out of thin air, we fish can’t do that. We need a solid liquid filled with oxygen. That’s our life source.

    Precisely. Both men and fish breathe, they just do so with different organs. The act of breathing is common, the hardware and methodology are diverse.

    My main point is that when I am seeking advice, I seek both inside and outside perspectives. I am listening to them for different reasons, and with a slightly different ear. I need to hear from people who have walked in my shoes, and who share my experience. I also need the perspective of people totally removed from my experience and it’s inherent blind spots (no one perspective can give you the entire picture). In this way I have the best of both worlds.

  286. “We know there’s a bigger problem at hand when someone like Tim Chiou (the 6’2″ handsome Asian actor) can easily recall instances in which women rejected him just for being Asian”.

    There is no bigger problem. Some women have race preferences just like some men have their preferences. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

    There are striking Asian guys who are shorter than Tim, and do well with non-Asian women, including White girls, probably better than he does.

  287. Moroboshi,

    Check out the top 50 grossing movies ever in U.S. history. You see more movies with animals, aliens and toys in main character roles than POC.

    And you keep blaming Asian parents, but the problem isn’t supply. The problem is that whatever few opportunities that Asians have, they’re being taken away. If there are no opportunities, then it won’t matter if an Asian American version of Tony Leung graduates from USC Film School.

    If your theory is correct, then why do even relatively established Asian American actors like John Cho and Lucy Liu complain about limits they face? If it’s a supply problem, then actors like that should be cleaning up since they’d be the default choice for all those abundant Asian roles out there that are begging for new blood!

  288. Moroboshi,

    Also, I’m curious as to how your solution would work. So more Asian parents give the green light for their kids to go to Tisch or wherever. And then what? Are all these MFA kids now supposed to make indies among themselves and hope Hollywood notices? Are they supposed to go into production and writing so that they can create more roles for Asians? If so, how are they going to get their foot in the door when everyone before them has found it notoriously exclusive? Is your theory that there needs to be a critical mass of (starving) Asians clamoring at the door of the entertainment industry for there to be a step forward?

    Your fundamental argument seems to be that Asian Americans simply lack the purchasing power to prevent Hollywood from running roughshod all over them. If so, I don’t see how an influx of Asian artists is going to solve that problem.

  289. Moroboshi has no solution. He only wants to lull you into complacency and accept mediocrity (aka the status quo).

  290. There is no easy solution but here are things i think would help.

    We need to create one voice. Too many Asians are still segregated from each other based on past feuds.

    We also need to take the arts more seriously. Byron wrote about this once. Instead of taking the safe decent paying job, the ones who have talent need to branch out into the Industry.

    They call this opportunity cost. An Asian person who has talent to be a great creative writer or actor is wasting it taking a steady engineering or programming job.

    Pozhal, you say there are a lot of Asian’s in the industry. You point me out the the great actor out there who is being ignored. From what I have seen, an Asian has won 2 oscars for directing. No other minority or even a woman has accomplished that. If they were racist, why would they vote for him?

    It isn’t notoriously exclusive. As I mentioned many times, there are many programs that give minority writers a chance. It is kind of an affirmative action for minority writers. All studios have these programs. You just have to look.

    Look. I have had many friends working in the industry for at least 10-15 years. Some have made it as staff writers and producers on shows, some are still struggling. If it was truly a racist place, I would be the first to admit it. But as I also said, this racism is more based on not knowing or understanding, not hate. I have to say being around it, Hollywood is one of the most tolerant and progressive industries out there.

    And I was wrong to single out hollywood earlier as greedy. Most big corporations and businesses are also moving overseas as well. It is unfortunately the nature of the beast. It’s just so damn frustrating for the worker bees.

  291. You still didn’t answer Pozhal’s question about your faulty logistics.

    So basically, your idea DOES involve creating a mass of Asian indie actors beating down on Hollywood’s door.

  292. I did. You just aren’t listening

    Hollywood is racist against black actors? How is it “The Butler” is the number one movie in the US the past two weeks if so? This movie is watched by all people and hit the mainstream.

    Can Asian Americans make a film like this that appeals to everyone? I think we have some amazing stories waiting to be told. I am positive we will see that one day.

    Going back to talk about racist hollywood,
    Isn’t Zoe Saldana a bankable hollywood actor who stars in her own films?

    Here is a list of up and coming black actors.

    http://madamenoire.com/275145/are-they-oscar-bound-10-up-and-coming-black-actors-and-actresses-to-watch-for/

    As I said, if you cannot make stories the studio can sell to the masses, Hollywood won’t be giving Asians too much airtime anytime soon unfortunately.

    Would you like to do a Podcast Pozhal? I feel this is one subject I know a lot about and would be interested to debate you. We all know in-dick-king, Bint and Eric won’t do a podcast cause they are scared the Feds will beat down their doors but I think it would be interesting if you and I did one.

  293. Moroboshi,

    Are you saying that Daniel Dae Kim, John Cho, Leonardo Nam, Lucy Liu, Grace Park, Sandra Oh, Ken Watanabe, and Russell Wong are all too untalented to deserve leading roles? Or are you saying that Asian Americans deserve to be shut out until we produce a once-in-a-generation type talent like Marlon Brando?

    Your argument right now seems to be that there’s a dearth of Asian American talent out there, which handicaps all these casting directors from putting Asians in good roles. And that problem can be fixed by more Asian parents letting their kids enter an industry that apparently is eager to have them.

    Again, this reasoning seems bizarre given the fact that even the names that I mentioned above have a hard time finding work. This seems to indicate that the problem is demand, not supply. Unless you’re saying that it is indeed a supply problem because Daniel Dae Kim and Co. are no-talents.

    Would you care to clarify, perhaps?

  294. The issue with Hollywood is whether its practice of whitewashing and ignoring Asians and other minorities is by definition racist. I agree that it is based not on racial hate but on greed and ignorance, but is it still not a kind of racism?

    Take Johnny Depp, a white guy playing a specifically Native American role in “The Lone Ranger”. I don’t doubt that the prime concern was Depp’s bankability as a huge star, and there is no Native American actor even close to that level of fame. But the fact that Hollywood execs would even consider it acceptable to ignore actual Native Americans, and choose instead to dress a white guy up like one… that’s incredibly ignorant and dismissive of Native people. Is that racist? Feels like it to me.

    Or take the upcoming “47 Ronin”, a classic Japanese real-life tale, into which Hollywood has inserted a fictional biracial character played by Keanu Reeves. Their assumption is that people love Asian themed films, but won’t watch one with an Asian leading man. So they would completely change the story just to shoehorn a white-ish guy in. Racist? I’d have to say it is.

    I get that it’s driven by economics. The biggest problem is the audience, and not the Asian-American audience but the mainstream one. I was complaining to some friends (of a variety of ethnicities) about how fucked up it is that Depp would play Tonto. Their overwhelming response was “Yeah, but I’ll still see it because Johnny Depp is hot.”
    Until mainstream audiences stop validating this kind of shit by paying to see it, I don’t think Hollywood will change, unfortunately. The overwhelming pattern is that they are happy to cast relatively unknown actors in surefire hit movies if the actor is white – Henry Cavill as Superman, Armie Hamer as the Lone Ranger – but will not consider giving an Asian actor a similar break.

    Black actors do have it a bit better, but nonetheless black actors are not treated all the same. There are a small number of black megastar actors who can get any role (Will Smith, Denzel, Morgan Freeman, Samuel L Jackson), but Hollywood will not go out of its way to break new black stars, the way it has promoted guys virtually out of nowhere like Shia Leboeuf, Liam Hemsworth, etc.
    Black actors tend to have to either (a) do the really hard yards slowly building a career, or (b) have already been a success in another field of entertainment. Examples of (a) are Freeman and Jackson, universally regarded as amongst the greatest actors of our time, yet who didn’t find success until middle age. Examples of (b) are Will Smith, Martin Lawrence, Jamie Foxx, Vanessa Hudson, Ice Cube, and Eddie Murphy.

  295. @ES,

    Yes, sometimes audiences are also a part of the problem too. If chances arise, I talk with my friends about some of the movies and they never realize the actual story.

  296. @ ES

    Johnny Depp is reported to have some Native American Ancestry (which was Disney’s out) But of course, it is just a sliver of his racial makeup and he is phenotypically White. The fact is that his Whiteness allows him to be the mega star that he is. A fully Native American actor would not be as successful in Hollywood because White women would not consider him to be as attractive, and White men would have more trouble relating to him.

    Unfortunately, even today, what makes money in Hollywood is usually White 90% of the time.

  297. ^

    Thing for me is, however, that people like Will Smith sort of challenge that with their popularity. It seems like White men don’t have too much of a problem relating to him on those roles.

  298. @ Notty

    I think Will Smith may be the first TRULY crossover megastar breakthrough in Hollywood. But even with Will, I think many Whites would get a little squirrelly if he is matched with a WASP romantic interest, in a film where romance takes center stage.

  299. ^

    I do remember that with Denzel Washington in the Pelican Brief, they avoided the whole question of romance when they paired him up opposite Julia Roberts. With Will Smith, he’s always been cast with ethnic women as romantic interests, you’re right.

    I wonder what the reaction would be if they did cast him with a White romantic interest. I almost can’t believe it would be controversial, because it’s Will Smith for God’s sake, but you never know. Maybe that’s why the studios haven’t taken the risk.

  300. “I wonder what the reaction would be if they did cast him with a White romantic interest. I almost can’t believe it would be controversial, because it’s Will Smith for God’s sake, but you never know.”

    I think at this point, it would be difficult for people to openly complain about it. That would be virtually the same as announcing that you are a racist. But I could see perhaps the box office being “softer” than would be the case with a popular White leading man, which would spook the studios into not trying it again.

    Bear in mind that just under the surface of the Will Smith acceptance is the Cheerios Commercial brouhaha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbWeH9cztHw
    Smith is accepted kind of on an honorary basis, but there is still plenty of national discomfort with B/W IR out there.

  301. Ok

    So Pozhal, once again, you list a bunch of guys who have small star power to carry a movie on their name alone. Yes, it is unfair cause they never got a chance but it also happens to white guys as well. I remember a story about Kevin Smith wanting to cast his friend Jason Lee in a Fletch Movie that has been in development for years. Harvey Weinstein was completely against the casting saying Lee has not proved he has a big enough audience to make the film profitable. The film never materialized.

    Leonardo Lam played the boyfriend in “Sisterhood of Traveling Pants” and the sequel. The character was white in the book. If Hollywood is so racist, why would they cast an Asian guy in that role instead?

    I think Russell Wong has gotten more chances than most. He’s already been the star in 2 Television shows. Do you honestly think that if both those shows were huge hits, Hollywood would not give him a chance to do more?

    The whole feature business is a star run system. I remember running into an A-list actress once and thinking, wow, this person, if she chose to star in a movie i wanted to produce, no matter how good or bad it was she probably can get it made no matter what.

    That is what star power is.

    Star power is the reason you’ll see established actors who have an audience in foreign countries get roles in the US (even though they can’t speak English) over Asian American Actors. Execs figure they can at least get some of their money back selling to the foreign markets where these people are stars.

    You have to remember, the execs making these decisions, the life span of their job is all based on success. It is one of the hardest careers to get into because it’s all about the bottom line.

    Should an exec be willing to risk his/her job giving an unknown, unproven actor a chance? Unfortunately, most of these execs would rather bank on an unknown white guy because unknown white guys have proven success before.

    It’s one thing to say the audience is racist, not wanting to see an Asian guy but another to say Hollywood casting directors are blatantly trying to stop Asians from getting any roles.

    If you job depended on how much money a film you oversaw made and you had a chance to cast Johnny Depp, an established star over a native American unknown, who would you cast? Who is the safer bet? Ultimately the film blew up in their face but think how much less it would have made with unknown actors? A studio figures they can at least sell it overseas where Depp is a huge star as well.

    Hollywood is all about giving the audience what it wants and again, it is unfortunate, there has yet to be an audience for Asian American Actors in films who don’t do martial arts. Maybe this will change as time goes on but it’s just too black and white to blame Hollywood racism on why we don’t see Asian American Actors getting any chances.

    And not sure you all know this but there are execs of all races including Asian Americans so to just blame it on white racism is uninformed.

  302. And as you mentioned Pozhal, you say Asian Americans do care about who is cast. Yes, there are blogs and stuff but again, the proof is in the pudding. I don’t think they care enough not to watch something and if they do, them not watching something is not overall affecting the profits.

    How many Asian friends do you have who are excited to watch films like “The Avengers,” “the Dark Knight Rises,” etc that feature no Asian American characters? You would be lying if you said you didn’t watch these films as well.

  303. @ES — I think he is right about this, it a significant part of the audience’s fault why the media is the way it is. I remember watching Russell Wong’s Vanishing Son — he had a white girlfriend who he regularly played violin /cello duets and fucked, and his brother one time blasted a couple of Klansmen with dual semi-autos. A few months later the show was cancelled LOL and replaced with Hercules. In this situation, the studios gave it a shot, and it didn’t fly — which I’m sure had to do with the audience and the low ratings.

  304. “Wasn’t Will Smith matched up briefly in that superhero movie Hancock? “

    In that movie Charlize Theron was the “soul mate” of Hancock, and although the movie alluded to a past relationship between the two, there is no actual onscreen romance – she chooses the nerdy white guy over the strapping superhero. It might be that producers thought that any depiction of a black guy as the lover of Charlize Theron would have had negative repercussions at the box office.

    Incidentally, the original script for the movie was written by an Asian guy – Vincent Ngo.

  305. Nice Ben Efsaneyim’s here. Very interested in your thoughts on my original posts in the ‘Gender Divide’ podcast thread.

  306. Moroboshi,

    So you’re saying that the likes of Justin Chatwin has a kind of rare star quality that a Leonardo Nam doesn’t?

    Or that Jim Sturgess is that much more Q-worthy than John Cho or Sung Kang?

    You’d have a point if these guys were being shut out by the likes of Johnny Depp or Matt Damon, but we’re talking about the likes of Sean Faris and Jackson Rathbone here.

    Feel the starpower.

  307. No I’m not saying that Pozhal. I’m saying, studios are afraid of giving an unproven Asian guy a chance rather than give an unproven white guy since the target audience is mostly going to be white. Not saying that is right but they aren’t doing it because they are racist. They are doing it cause they want a better chance to make money due to what has been popular in the past. And mix that in with places like China that are indifferent to who stars in US films, they are going to cast a white guy.

    You don’t think Hollywood would cast an Asian American guy who can be popular here in the states and popular in China as well? Imagine a star who can be multi accessible to Americans and China who just so happens to be Asian. I’ve spoken to execs in my day and they would love to find someone like that.

    I wouldn’t say any of those actors you mentioned are struggling. They are at least working actors who get jobs. Did you know only out of the 75,000 SAG members, only 10% are making a living off acting. Not talking about superstars, but working actors. That shows how difficult it is for anybody, not just Asians.

    And you mention Sung Kang, didn’t he replace a white guy for the roll in “Bullet in the Head?”

    So funny these actors you’ve mentioned. Many have gotten roles that were originally written for a white guy.

    In the end, It all comes down to telling a good story. If you think you have a great idea for a feature about Asians, by all means, try and get it made.
    That’s what Justin Lin did. He parlayed it into the career he has now.

    This whole debate is about whether Hollywood is racist or not. I’ve just given you many reasons why it isn’t.

    I really would love to get into a podcast with you. I would shred you to ribbons in debating on this subject.

  308. Eric,

    Do you encourage Asian guys to be unapologetic when it comes to getting what they are entitled in America? I would like to know what you say about this.

  309. moro,

    so are you saying that the lack of asians in media are asian american’s own fault for not trying? where do you see the success of wong fu, kevjumba, nigahiga, timothy delaghetto going? they all seem to be making a good living out in entertainment on youtube. anyway for them to have mainstream crossover appeal.

    a lot of their fanbase isn’t purely asian either.

  310. Moroboshi,

    If being “unproven” is the problem, then how is an influx of Asian film school grads going to change that? What are these people going to be able to do differently that the past generations haven’t done?

    Being talented and being proven are two completely different things. In order to be proven, you need to have opportunities, often multiple ones. Your idea that there needs to be more Asians in entertainment doesn’t address the problem of a lack of opportunities for Asian actors.

    Shred me to ribbons? LOL, you’ve been talking to Eric too much and have picked up Internet Tough Guy Syndrome. I have no interest in doing any podcasts. Writing suits me just fine, and I don’t like the idea of my voice floating out there on the internet.

  311. asianguy – those youtube guys are relatively new. Let’s see what happens before we say they aren’t getting any chances. I do know for a fact, that Freddie Wong has met with some big time producers. Nothing came out of it but still amazing he got to meet with big named guys.

    Again, unfortunately, they did that promo with “Cowboys and Aliens” with him and that didn’t help the movie gain any more audience. Not his fault but it would have helped him if the movie was a success.

    Pozhal: I’m guessing chances are these film school grads will get an opportunity to tell their story. I’m guessing their story will involve an Asian person since they are Asian as well. I do believe our stories are just as interesting as anyone else’s. You’ll eventually see a great Asian story with Asian actor showing off their skills is what I’m hoping. I mean, the most successful Asian American story film so far is “The Joy Luck Club.” That’s just sad.

    But back to what we were talking about because you are changing subjects. You argued with me saying Hollywood is racist. I’m telling you it’s not and included reasons why they aren’t.

    I’m better talking to someone instead of this back and forth posting. Speaking is much more effective in my opinion than posting when it comes to activism. Imagine if Martin Luther King only wrote stuff and did not speak at all? How effective would have have been?

  312. is it really that bad in the media for AMs? u got some twilight guys justin chon, leonardo nam, john cho in star trek and the creator of milf. that guy in walking dead is hugely popular. fast and furious, bullet to the head. things could be better.

    i dont know the movie industry but i leaning towards agreeing with moro here.

  313. @ Moro:

    “If you job depended on how much money a film you oversaw made and you had a chance to cast Johnny Depp, an established star over a native American unknown, who would you cast? Who is the safer bet?”

    The Lone Ranger is an interesting case which tells us a lot about Hollywood. They actually did cast a virtual unknown in the title role of the movie – the Lone Ranger was played by Armie Hammer. Who? Exactly. His only previous notable role was in The Social Network, but that hardly made him a household name.
    It’s understandable that the studio wanted a big name. So why go with Hammer and Depp, given that Depp is clearly not Native American? (He might have a great-grandparent who was, but that doesn’t count.) The logical course would be to cast a big name white actor in the Lone Ranger role – Pitt, Damon, DiCaprio, or even Depp himself – and then to give the Tonto role to a Native actor who would obviously be of lower profile, but it would potentially boost his career. This would at least avoid the ridiculousness of Depp pretending to be a Native American. Instead, they chose to boost the career of Hammer and go all racebendy with Depp.

  314. ES, but Depp is the big star who will draw viewers. It would probably be too expensive to include another A-lister. Did you see the movie? It should really be called “the Tonto” movie was more about Tonto than the Lone Ranger. And I read Depp wanted to do the role because he wanted to play an NA.

    Depp always said he had Native American roots, even before this film. He is from Kentucky so not too surprising. Lots of Americans have NA Blood.

    My point is, if a big A-list star like Depp wants to be in your movie, you give him the role he wants.

    There was also lots of preproduction to this film where it wasn’t going to be made if Depp wasn’t attached to it any longer.

  315. This ad hominem thread is getting too tame again

    Moroboshi , you ignorant status quo low substance circle-jerk fuckhead, heres a copy and paste i left earlier from the other thread you conveniently overlooked

    Is TV racist against asians?

    interview with Jeff Yang, and HuffPost Celeb Editor Youyoung Lee discuss stereotypes on Seth Macfarlanes new show ‘Dads’

    http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/asian-americans-dads-media-action-network-tv-fox-seth-macfarlane/520e716302a7606b2800041b

    From China

    Andy Lau /Lau Tak Wah

    Criticizes Hollywood for Being “Racist!”

    http://asianvibe.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/asian-actor-criticizes-hollywood-for.html

  316. is it really that bad in the media for AMs? u got some twilight guys justin chon, leonardo nam, john cho in star trek and the creator of milf. that guy in walking dead is hugely popular. fast and furious, bullet to the head. things could be better.

    i dont know the movie industry but i leaning towards agreeing with moro here.

    – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-207970

    You have to admit, hollywood has been more aware than ever in terms of not doing negative depictions. Also seen a trend of Asian guys paired w females.
    Off the top of my head, shows featuring AMs and *F
    Big day – asian guy plays main character’s ex boyfriend

    Sullivan and son. – Hapa main character is paired with a WF. His sister’s husband is played by Ken jeong.

    Bionic woman. Girl from battlestar galactica paired with Asian guy

    Walking dead

    Black sash

    Lost

    Cashmere mafia – episode has lucy lui fall for an Asian guy

    An insider told they almost did an episode of Sex in the City about Asian men including pairing some of the main characters with them. Wait, maybe better that never happened.

    I’m not saying it’s perfect but I do see this as progress. We are far away from the dark days of Long duk dong.
    And not saying its perfect cause we still see bad depictions here and there. I think these bad depictions sting less due to the more positive depictions we see. I want it where you can show a bad depiction and not think twice because that isn’t the ONLY thing we see on TV or the movies.

  317. @ Moroboshi:

    Replace the phrase “Native American” with “African-American” in those sentences and maybe you’ll see how ridiculous it all sounds. Something like “We passed over Jamie Foxx for the role of Ray Charles and gave it to Johnny Depp because he was the bigger star, and Johnny always wanted to play an African-American.”

    Since Asians and Native Americans have a more similar skin tone than whites, whites feel they can get away with playing them in a way that would be unthinkable today if it were black characters. But it’s still ridiculous – Depp is no more qualified to play a Native American than David Carradine is to play a Chinese guy in “Kung Fu”, or than Tom Hanks is qualified to play Malcolm X.

    I get that Depp’s role as Tonto with the film was integral to it getting up and running, but that is no less ridiculous. Imagine: “We couldn’t make this film about Muhammad Ali without the involvement of Justin Timberlake in playing Ali.”

    And Johnny Depp’s alleged NA heritage is basically irrelevant. I have a Scottish great-grandparent but I’m not ever going to expect to play the hero in “Braveheart”.

    I don’t expect the industry to insert non-white actors into roles where they don’t belong. I don’t want to see Ken Jeong playing Mr Darcy in Pride and Prejudice just for the sake of diversity. However, they should get fairly considered for roles where race doesn’t matter. And when there is a role that is specifically calling for a particular non-white racial background, putting a white person in that role is a straight up insult. And it’s amazing that Hollywood cannot seem to realise that.

  318. ES, I agree that it is not right but hollywood will always Kotow to A list stars. Add the name bruckheimer producing and no studio could resist. Again, this doesn’t make hollywood racist. Just going after high profits in this case Depps name. When the movie was being pitched, they probably searched for a Native American actor. This reminds me of when the film The big hit was in development stages. It was suppose to be a vehicle for Jason Scott lee. It ended up going to marky mark w producers thinking they can make more money with a white actor. Kirk Wong was the director.

    And here is another up and coming young black actor.

    http://www.deadline.com/tag/chadwick-boseman/

  319. ^
    I consider Depp-as-Tonto an implicit fuck-you to all Native American actors, frankly. It’s exactly like what happened to Bruce Lee and the Kung Fu series. That, to me, is racist. It may not be the racism of “we are deliberately holding you back because we don’t like your race”. It’s the racism of “we will exploit your culture to make us some money but fuck you if you want to benefit from it, and fuck your feelings.”

    I mean, A-list or not, the fact that no one anywhere up the chain of production said no to the ludicrous idea of Depp playing Tonto is just disturbing to me.

    I ain’t saying there are no up and coming black actors, or that they don’t get roles. But I’ll be impressed if someone like Boseman can get roles that are not characters who are specifically black. Hollywood frequently boosts the careers of unknown white people by putting them in racially nonspecific everyman-type roles, but they don’t do that with black actors.

    Yes, there are black actors playing racially nonspecific leading-man roles – Jamie Foxx, Will Smith, Denzel Washington, Eddie Murphy, The Rock – but all of those apart from Washington came into the movie biz having built up a following in a different field of entertainment. Even Washington had to build his career through black films and specifically black characters.

  320. ES is 500% spot on with his comments. As long as Hollywood continues to push demeaning Asian stereotypes, and as long as Asians – male and female – continue to accept demeaning roles, it is these demeaning roles that will remain popular and in demand.

    I think that it is delusional to deny that the movie and television industries have pushed these images of Asians such that it is impossible to see Asians – particularly Asian men – as little more that objects of derision or the butt of racial jokes. It is all well and good to argue that there is just no market for Asian male leads, but to do so without acknowledging that the market has been skewed by decades of such negative images, is naive at best.

    The only responsibility that I think Asian actors bear is that they haven’t completely refused to participate in any role that contributes to this demand for demeaning stereotypes. I don’t buy it that you have to take demeaning roles in order to qualify for big roles – where did Asians get that silly idea? Demeaning roles lead to more demeaning roles.

  321. ES wrote: I ain’t saying there are no up and coming black actors, or that they don’t get roles. But I’ll be impressed if someone like Boseman can get roles that are not characters who are specifically black. Hollywood frequently boosts the careers of unknown white people by putting them in racially nonspecific everyman-type roles, but they don’t do that with black actors. – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-207987

    I know white actors get more chances than others But unfortunately, white has a history of selling. Again, it is based on money and track record on what producers and execs think will sell. We do see more characters that are traditionally white being played by actors who are not. Ie Jaimie Foxx as Electro, Ironside played by Blair Underwood w an Asian partner. Remember when there was a big fuss about “established” star Will Smith playing the white character in Wild Wild West? Was that wrong as well or another example of Hollywood casting another A list star to make more $. In the comic books, Will Smith’s character was originally white in Men in Black as well.

    BE: is hollywood all about demeaning stereotypes for Asians? I just mentioned quite a few roles that aren’t demeaning. 30 years ago, all we had was long duk dong, these days, there have been other roles for Asians including positive depictions. It isn’t moving as fast as I would like to see admittedly. But I do think it is getting better. The fact execs are actually talking about adding minorities in roles is a step in the right direction. They didn’t do that 30 years ago.

  322. Moroboshi

    “is hollywood all about demeaning stereotypes for Asians?”

    That’s kind of an irrelevant question – it’s like asking “was slavery all about whippings?”

    Hollywood has created a market for demeaning depictions of Asians – this is undeniable – and that is the racism that limits opportunities for Asians. A few good roles is a step in the right direction, but it remains to be seen if these roles can lead to a shift in thinking for Hollywood. I”m skeptical – there have been brief moments in the past when Asians did have decent roles, but that came to nothing eventually.

    Plus, it’s all well and good to say that big budget movies require big budget names on the billboard, but I see little logic or reason in Hollywood’s demeaning depictions of Asians – better no depiction at all, than a derogatory one. Why are there so many demeaning depictions of Asians? If they don’t reflect an attitude, then why do you think they exist?

  323. @ Moroboshi:

    I should state that I certainly don’t disagree with your assessment that things are getting better. They certainly are. But in some departments it is still shocking how backward the Hollywood thinking is, particularly for an industry that is.

    And obviously Hollywood is not some amorphous organism; it’s made up of lots of different people, some of whom are part of the problem and part of the solution.

    But what I guess I’ve been trying to say is that when it comes to questions like “Is Hollywood racist?” or “Is it all just about money?” I don’t think it’s an either/or thing. It’s refusal to get to grips with the new reality of how POCs need to be treated is a form of racism; maybe I would call it passive or indirect racism. Hollywood is not going out of its way to be shitty to Asians or other races, but the sheer ignorance of its treatment of them is racism in itself.

    Here’s a parallel: let’s say I’m an architect and I design office buildings. In all the many buildings that I design, what if I never included wheelchair access in any of them? Disabled people would complain, but including wheelchair access just eats into my profit and thus I just don’t bother with it.
    In such an example, I don’t have a specific desire to hurt disabled people; I’m just concerned about money. Indeed, I’m treating them just like anyone else. Yet by my complete disregard for them, I’m discriminating against them indirectly.

    My point is that the profit motive is not a valid ethical justification for being discriminatory. It’s possible to be racist without actively being racist, if that makes any sense.

  324. “My point is that the profit motive is not a valid ethical justification for being discriminatory. It’s possible to be racist without actively being racist, if that makes any sense.”

    Case in point:

    “Mavis, I want to congratulate you for scoring the highest yet on our typing test at 129 words per minute and no errors! Your shorthand and dictation were also flawless! I wanted you to know that we are really impressed with you… But… this position is more than just typing. I’m afraid you would have to interact with the public on a daily basis, and although, I don’t feel this way myself, you must know that there are many who would object to me having a negro woman as the face of our company, sitting at the front desk. I’m sorry, but I would be sure to lose business, by offending some of my customers.

    Why don’t you go and apply to work for a nice negro company? You would be a real asset there. Nothing personal it’s just a case of hard economics. There, there… now don’t cry… I assure you, you’re a real credit to your people!”

  325. My point is that the profit motive is not a valid ethical justification for being discriminatory. It’s possible to be racist without actively being racist, if that makes any sense. – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-207994

    Right but again, is it them giving what the audience wants or them outright trying to stop minorities from getting roles?
    My point is, if they feel they can make as much money off hiring an unknown actor playing Tonto, they’d do it but they hired someone who they felt can make them a lot of money based on the track record of Bruckheimer and Depp with the billion dollar Pirates franchise.
    I never said this was right but it isn’t racism. Years ago, I took an internship at a network. The guy who I worked under and I had a chat about does the network care about what goes on Television? He told me if they can get away with just putting on a toy animal banging on a drum that people would watch, they would do so in a second.
    I would say Hollywood is a pretty progressive industry compared to some of the others. You may not see too many minorities in front of the camera, but you do see quite a few behind it.

    BE wrote: Why are there so many demeaning depictions of Asians? If they don’t reflect an attitude, then why do you think they exist? – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-207994

    Give me an example of a demeaning depiction nowadays and I can counter with a positive depiction. As I said, this isn’t based on hate but unawareness. I attribute less and less of the negative depictions nowadays due to people like you standing up against it, making people aware.

    Nowadays, someone can do a negative depiction like on “Two Broke Girls” and people are more aware and will stand up and criticize. As a matter of fact, I believe it was a white person who pointed that out at that TV Motion Picture event.

  326. I just don’t buy that things aren’t improving like some of you are saying.
    I’m seeing more Asians than ever in movies and television depicting various roles.

    One thing I’m interested in learning about, it seems about most of the actors out there are Korean. Any reason why that is? I have no problem with it but maybe this is based on upbringing, parents accepting it as a career choice?

  327. Moro

    “Give me an example of a demeaning depiction nowadays and I can counter with a positive depiction. As I said, this isn’t based on hate but unawareness. “

    Unawareness is not a compelling argument. LA and New York are probably the two main centers for film and television – both have significant Asian populations, particularly LA and California. I find it hard to believe that people in these places aren’t exposed to Asians on at least an acquaintance level. Unawareness was a good excuse 50 years ago maybe, but not now. And Asians have been talking and protesting about these issues for years – even in mainstream publications. Unawareness can’t be the issue.

    Besides, unawareness doesn’t lead to derogatory depictions, why would it? You could argue that it leads to ignorant depictions, but demeaning ones? I am unaware of Algerian culture, does it follow that if I were to make a movie and included an Algerian character it would be derogatory? It doesn’t. Demeaning a race or a culture goes beyond unawareness. I am more likely to believe that laziness or complacency are more likely than unawareness.

    I am actually interested in data on the subject – if there are roughly an equal number of positive/derogatory depictions of Asians, I would love to see some data on it. If you have some it would greatly appreciated if you sent it my way.

  328. BE wrote: I am actually interested in data on the subject – if there are roughly an equal number of positive/derogatory depictions of Asians, I would love to see some data on it. If you have some it would greatly appreciated if you sent it my way.

    – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-208002

    I already listed stuff off the top of my head on my last post. Sure if I took the time to research this, I can find more.

    Do you think those negative portrayal of Asians do not exist in reality at all?
    Hate to say it. I think there are Asian people who are like that.
    The problem is, when that’s all that is shown in films and TV shows, people think associate that negativity to all Asian people.
    As I mentioned, it has gradually gotten better and I have seen many positive portrayals of late to balance out the negative ones.

  329. I never said this was right but it isn’t racism.

    I would say Hollywood is a pretty progressive industry compared to some of the others. You may not see too many minorities in front of the camera, but you do see quite a few behind it.

    That makes sense. There might be thousands of minority doing scriptwriting, audio editing, soundproofing, storyboard supervising, fundraising, after all, coffee making, broom holding, sweeping the floor, stocking up the fridges. At the end of the day, the only image the general public see is an alpha male coming on stage, flying from afar, with his cape streaming with the speed of his velocity (< 3 x 10^8 m/s), and finally saving the day.

    The positive and negative portrayals of the majority population oftentimes neutralize each other. It is human nature that all we understand. For minority, it becomes totally different and sensitive issue. Even the slightest depiction of minority in negative scene can accentuate the dose effect that it wouldn’t get in majority issue. Besides, sometimes the historic moment or event that would sustain each minority’s sense of pride has often been robbed in the names of “money making”.

  330. ES Wrote: Here’s a parallel: let’s say I’m an architect and I design office buildings. In all the many buildings that I design, what if I never included wheelchair access in any of them? Disabled people would complain, but including wheelchair access just eats into my profit and thus I just don’t bother with it. In such an example, I don’t have a specific desire to hurt disabled people; I’m just concerned about money. Indeed, I’m treating them just like anyone else. Yet by my complete disregard for them, I’m discriminating against them indirectly. – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-208005

    If there wasn’t laws that you have to make a building Handicap accessible, do you think architects would add one anyways? As you said, this has nothing to do with the architect being against handicap people but just like them casting Johnny Depp as Tonto, this has nothing to do with someone being discriminatory against Native American actors. Johnny Depp is a big name who hopefully will bring his big following with him. As I mentioned before, most of these executive jobs don’t last long. Their success is all based on how many successful projects they can associate with. This isn’t any different than a company that is sending work overseas because they know they can hire people to work for less. The problem is, those who had the jobs here now don’t have one. The corporation isn’t discriminating against those who live here. They just sent their jobs to another country so they can make more profits. It isn’t fair but it happens all the time.

  331. Also want to add this as well.
    For all intents and purposes. This film doesn’t get made without Johnny Depp attached.
    Altruistic or not. Here are Depp’s reasons for taking the role.
    http://screenrant.com/johnny-depp-tonto-lone-ranger-set-images-sandy-166753/

    But let’s not even talk racism. Lets talk about how many jobs and how much money a big movie production like this brings into the economy. They shot most of this in New Mexico adding thousands of jobs and pumping millions into the state’s economy.

    So, is it better not to make this movie at all or cast Depp as Tonto giving a boost to the already struggling US economy. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not disagreeing they should have cast a Native American actor but in a struggling economy, I would rather see the movie be made with Johnny Depp as Tonto than not.

  332. BE, I used to think like you as well. I criticized Asian Actors for taking the demeaning roles. It wasn’t till I made friends in the industry who were struggling to put food on the table I started thinking differently. As I said, only 10% of 75,000 SAG members are working actors.
    This is kind of a put yourself in their shoes type of thing we are talking about. Till you go through what they do, not sure it is right to judge.
    Yes Ken Jeong has made a lot of money off a demeaning role but he’s parlayed that success into many different roles many of them not demeaning.

  333. But let’s not even talk racism. Lets talk about how many jobs and how much money a big movie production like this brings into the economy. They shot most of this in New Mexico adding thousands of jobs and pumping millions into the state’s economy.

    From now on, let’s get start lynching people. That will create jobs for those who’re selling ropes and those who’re planting trees. Although the moral is not right, it isn’t racism either. It’s just creating jobs by all means.

    Or let’s get start raping women. That will sell a lot more Trojans, Durex, Lifestyles. The offshoot of this endeavors is Women will start protecting themselves by buying guns or all protective gadgets. And all over-the-counter pills will surge in black market. Abortion clinics will skyrocket every corner of the street. Although the moral is not right, it isn’t racism either. It’s just creating jobs by all means.

    So, is it better not to make this movie at all or cast Depp as Tonto giving a boost to the already struggling US economy. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not disagreeing they should have cast a Native American actor but in a struggling economy, I would rather see the movie be made with Johnny Depp as Tonto than not.

    I agree. In struggling economy, let’s get started fucking whomever we want. If need be, let’s go and colonize any places in this world, maybe pillage, vandalize, loot any palaces, and enslave whomever not deem humanoid enough. Fuck Butan, the most happiest country in the world. We need to preserve our economy.

    BE, I used to think like you as well. I criticized Asian Actors for taking the demeaning roles. It wasn’t till I made friends in the industry who were struggling to put food on the table I started thinking differently. As I said, only 10% of 75,000 SAG members are working actors.

    Who are struggling? The existing movies industry or producers or production executives or cast?

    Because of the movie industry struggling, it’s more appropriate to fuck NA? Or
    Because of the production executive struggling with his life to pay bills for his mansion, wife, 2 kids to send to Ivy, insurance, it’s more appropriate to fuck Asians? Or
    Because of the struggling White cast who also need to pay bills, it’s more appropriate to fuck Asians? [21, Extraordinary Measures, Dragon Ball]?
    Because of the struggling Asian cast who also need to pay bills, ugh.. what’s that?

    This is kind of a put yourself in their shoes type of thing we are talking about. Till you go through what they do, not sure it is right to judge.

    Sometimes I always don’t understand why cats lick their assholes. They seem to enjoy it. Only if it were possible, I wanted to ask what they are doing.

    Yes Ken Jeong has made a lot of money off a demeaning role but he’s parlayed that success into many different roles many of them not demeaning.

    FYI, he is already a Medical Dr. He can parlay his millions salary into funding kickstarters. Maybe you could send your links (fundraising) which you promised me to send long time ago.

  334. Can’t debate w someone who brings up apples when I’m talking about oranges. Yes you make a lot of sense comparing casting johnny depp as a Native American to rape, murder and other illegal stuff. Good thinking.
    No, the economy is struggling and a big movie production brings lots of revenue into a city. You are short sighted not to see that.
    Maybe if Bint got laid once in awhile, he wouldn’t be so angry.

  335. Ken jeong is just an example of an actor who can pay multiple roles. So you dont think Asian actors should ever play a negative, demeaning role? And who decides what is and isnt appropriate? Don’t the Wayans brothers play black stereotypes? You never saw Don’t be a menace, I guess. All the great black comedians of the past like Red Fox, started out playing stereotypical roles. If ken jeong played the same character all the time, that’s one thing but he’s done enough other things I can respect a lot of his work.

    How much money have you funded kickstarters? Big talker no action. Actually you fear doing a podcast. Small taker, no action.

  336. PUA MOTHERFUCKAASSSSS

    (sidenote i was out in hollywood saw JT Tran aka Asian Playboy at a club). he was buying a drink at a bar. i should of followed him stealthily to watch his student’s game.

  337. (sidenote i was out in hollywood saw JT Tran aka Asian Playboy at a club). he was buying a drink at a bar. i should of followed him stealthily to watch his student’s game.

    What club? Did he smile at you? did you figure out he’s a fraud?

  338. moro,

    was at supperclub last friday, my first time there. nah he didn’t see me. there had to be at most 6 other AMs in the entire club.

  339. Everybody here posted scenarios, case in point, analogy, but you didn’t agree that Hollywood is racist, “It is not right, but it isn’t racism.”

    After many posts by several people, you still don’t agree, but it’s all about making money. Then you’re shifting “Hollywood racism” arguments into “Job creation” and “some of those struggling stories.”

    It was a relief that your opinion alone doesn’t represent entire Asian American community sentiment. But it’s undigestible here to read you’re gradually shifting arguments into Job Creation in struggling economy.

    Yes, it becomes more and more common these days when AA points out all demeaning stereotypical displays on screen, it’s supposed to be You don’t get the joke. Take it easy, man.

    When I show you those comparisons (lynching, raping, colonizing), it is not comparing Apples to Oranges. The apples in your hands, I’m presenting to you with a magnifying glass that it has a larvae which you can’t see with a naked eye, in your case “Job Creation” scenario. The Ethic Vs Job Creation, or Morality Vs Job Creation.

    I’m starting to think maybe Marissa Lee, co-founder of racebending.com, needs to get laid once in a while, so that she would not have founded such site in the first place.

    My job here is done. You can shift all arguments into “Job Creation”, “Struggling Economy”, “Empire Strike Back”, or whatever you can imagine.

  340. Moro

    “Do you think those negative portrayal of Asians do not exist in reality at all? Hate to say it. I think there are Asian people who are like that. The problem is, when that’s all that is shown in films and TV shows, people think associate that negativity to all Asian people. “

    I’m not sure what it is you are arguing against then. Everyone is saying that the problem is an uneven depiction – you believe that there is a good depiction for every derogatory one, but then you seem to imply that this is not the case. I’m confused. Regardless, I see little reason to believe that derogatory depictions are to be expected, and that they have nothing to do with racial attitudes.

    “I used to think like you as well. I criticized Asian Actors for taking the demeaning roles. It wasn’t till I made friends in the industry who were struggling to put food on the table I started thinking differently. “

    Every struggling actor is struggling – do we see struggling white actors being required to take roles that are derogatory and demeaning to their race? Sure, Asian actors may be required to take poor roles, bit parts, or roles where they are killed off, but derogatory ones? Most struggling Asian actors take these roles because that is what is most likely to be offered to them. At the very least that limits their opportunities. This won’t change unless Asian actors stop accepting the roles.

  341. Meet our resident contrarian — Moroboshi.

    lol, why do i think this thread will set the record for the most number of comments.

    all comments on other blog posts will start there and then turn ugly and finish up at the “ad hominem thread”

  342. Moroboshi said: I’m guessing their story will involve an Asian person since they are Asian as well. I do believe our stories are just as interesting as anyone else’s. You’ll eventually see a great Asian story with Asian actor showing off their skills is what I’m hoping.

    And who’ll be the “proven” Asian talent who will headline this great story?

  343. On another note, really cool trailer for the movie about Wikileaks’ Julian Assange.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT1wb8_tcYU

    And for all those who intend to pressure / intimidate myself and others into doing a podcast, I refer you to the quote on 0:30.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. But if you give him a mask, he will tell you the truth.

    Amen.

  344. BE. If you don’t agree Hollywood has gotten any better w their portrayal of Asians, I don’t think there is any point to further discuss. I just asked for all the negative portrayal you see nowadays and I can match that with a positive portrayal. As a matter of fact, there are more positive depictions of Asians in film and TT than there ever has been.

    And a starving actor will take a negative role. I don’t agree with it but I can understand why because I have struggled in my life as well. If someone is established and is taking a negative role, then I can see a reason to be critical.

    I’m about done talking about Hollywood. No point to convince you since you arent going to convince me. I guess I will always see things more in a positive light.

    Eric wrote. Meet our resident contrarian — Moroboshi.

    Ar least i don’t lie. Why did you feel you had to lie about your age? Afraid someone is going to figure out who you are?

  345. Asianguy,

    I know this is an ad hom thread, but maybe try to put a spin on insults. I don’t know if I speak for the rest of us, but I’d much rather see some clever, intelligent wordplay in between the “dipshits” and “motherfucks.” Think of it as a rap off, rather than a cursing contest. Impress us by saying something clever.

    Thanks.

  346. Meh… Maybe someday when I have too muh time. I’m just here to troll the tards.

    I will be “puaing” in Vegas this weekend. Have fun jacking it to hobgoblins Raguel Parker.

  347. Yeah fuck you Eric you fuckin loser!

    And you are naive to think by putting a fake name, people can’t find out who you are if they really wanted to.

    Someone thinks a little too highly of himself. Just saying.

  348. That a threat bitch? Just cause what I have to say doesn’t make you happy? LOL. You are the loser, you know. For offering nothing to anyone with that empty head of yours.

  349. @The Blah

    I never said I hated white people, I only despise the source of your illegitimate power. You asked me do I feel threatened by your like for Asian women. Your personal preference, no, but do I feel like your unfair stranglehold on this and global society presents an obstacle to me? Yes I do. What about you? Feel threatened when people rail against the inherent hypocrisy that is the United States? I think you did, when you accused me of “treason”(lol) for expressing an opinion. Wowo, I never thought expressing an opinion could cut so deeply!!! Haha, who’s feeling threatened now???

  350. When I was in Asia, I sat down next to these two white guys, who apparently assumed I didn’t understand English. As I ate my delicious sesame noodles, I listened on. Here’s how the conversation went:

    “…Yeah, you know if we ever went to war with these Asians, they could never fight like us. They’re cowardly, they dont have the… chivalrous nature that we have, as Westerners.”

    “Yeah. All it would take really would be to destroy the 3 gorges dam, and then we could give millions of people dysentery, that would surely take them out.”

    Dysentery?!?! Inflammation of the colon you don’t say?!? My word!

    “But you hear how the Chinese are in Africa now? I don’t know what we should do about that, but they need to be stopped.”

    Maybe I was listening too intently, but they eventually picked up that I probably understood what they were saying. And they quickly slinked away.

    Though this was only one anecdote, how interesting was it to hear these guys talk about the Chinese like that while in Asia. White expats, in the seat of white privilege, with all the arbitrary celebrity status in the world, who perhaps were even more hegemonistic than most white people I meet here in the USA! Not going to totally generalize, though I have met more than a few expats who seem to be even more Anti-Chinese the longer they stay in Asia. Maybe despite the celebrity status, they feel disconnected with the people somehow. Maybe they realize how different American and Asian culture is; that they long for that interpersonal connection, so much so that they despise Asians eventually for depriving them of it? Or maybe they were just fucking assholes (like you TheBlah!)

    Geez, those expats also really miss their sandwiches too LOL — they talk about nostalgia for comfort Western food; I felt totally OK though, culinary paradise for me — can’t get food like that here, goddamnit.

    But yeah, its interesting. Oh, and Blah, since you’re totally fine with XM dating white women, here’s another story. I had a ONS with a white girl. And she told me that her travel buddy, I assume it was her boyfriend, was really aggressive while walking around the street in Asia — that he was practically “pushing” people out of the way in the crowded street. She said “Oh, I don’t like how he kind of looks down on people here, he was just shoving them in front of him, calling them little Asians. I don’t want to be like that. I want to experience a different culture, I don’t want to act like I’m superior to it.” Then we fucked (thanks PUA!). She was very sweet and very intelligent, but I can’t help but think about her boyfriend. What an asshole. Pushing Asians around, how rude indeed.

    What’s the point of these stories? Oh I don’t know. Just stories I guess.

  351. By the way, the fact that XF women feel comfortable with Asian men behind closed doors but not outside in the street is more evidence that it is a societal pressure that is keeping XF from dating interracially. This probably applies to black men as well, which is why you don’t even see that many white girls with black guys on the street, well at least not as many as white girls sleeping with black men.

    The only socially acceptable pairing is XF with white men. Which is set up through the fact that this is still a white-first country, and white men, who seek to hoard all the sexual opportunities for themselves, set up the structure in this way — by usage of stereotypes and hoarding of power, so that them shaming XF, and even AF from dating Asian men is an effective deterrent.

  352. It’s all about the power of context. Attraction is contextual. That’s why I place so much evidence on changing the context.

  353. Sick woman who needs to be arrested and tried in a court of law. If guilty she deserves what she gets.

  354. Hey, didn’t the USA have a kid auto-rifle a bunch of 5 year olds with an AR-15? Hahahaha, maybe China traditionally had moral depravity due to poverty and still fringe elements exist, but USA got its share of sick bastards as well. Little kids getting pierced by .223, not a pretty thought.

  355. @ Eric:

    you had a one night stand with a white girl? That’s funny, because recently I was reading some blog comments from an Asian dude (maybe you know him) who said he wouldn’t trust Asian women who’d had flings or relationships with white guys before.

  356. Eric, I witnessed the same in Beijing so many times. I was eating at a pizza hut near Wudaokou with my mum and girlfriend (it was the first meal that the three of us every shared together) and this racist white American guy starts sounding off about, I kid you not, “Johnny McChink” to a dark-skinned American guy who he was eating with.

    Another time I was at a very small local western restaurant which happened to also have one white guy and a black couple (all Americans). They started making fun of the way two Chinese girls next them were holding their knives and forks and started talking about how “barbaric” chopsticks were.

    I went back last December actually to get some surgery in Beijing and, you guessed it, shit happened again. I was on the metro and this short white dude wearing earphones barges me from behind whilst muttering “get out of my way” in English. Man one day I swear I’m gonna go postal on one of these fools.

  357. ES: do prostitutes count since I cannot imagine any girl much less a white one having a one night stand with this clown unless he paid her. I’m guessing the poor girl emptied her mind during that harrowing experience. What do they call it when ninjas slow their heart rate to fake death? I think you can make millions teaching prostitutes that trick when they screw really ugly people.

  358. ES I think I mentioned I admitted that assuming an Asian girl would feel a Caucasian man was superior, yet choosing an Asian guy for financial stability… I really didn’t have enough evidence to make that assumption so to make that assertion — I cannot know for certain so I guess you and Pozhal could be right about that one — it’s not fair to generalize without the facts to back it up.

    But then there was that story about my friend, who told me how white guys were for flings only, and somehow wanted me to be OK with that. Look me having one night with someone really doesn’t change the demographics of how Asian men are really getting “fucked” (scuse the pun) in the demographics. Like asking Asian men to be fair and racially unbiased, when everyone else and every other woman is racist. So we are here discussing how to change that. Thats why we attack IR disparity and not IR. Anyways, the rest of my relationships have all been with Asian women.

  359. ES I think the question in that convo was: Are Asian women who previously dated white men, who may now be dating Asian men — look down on Asian men as a “lower” caste, and do it primarily for monetary reasons?

    And then we had the convo, and I admitted I had no evidence to base this claim, it was just a suspicion I had from a few personal anecdotes and assumptions. With me and the white girl, that one isolated incident —That ONS was done in the secrecy of a shitty hostel room; there was no real relationship, but only in that isolated place did I find that racism could finally be relinquished. It made me solidify my idea that attraction is contextual — I firmly believe that there is nothing wrong with Asian men as a whole; it’s simply SOCIETY and the CONTEXT SOCIETY GIVES that really disempowers Asian men in relationships.

    Let’s make something clear — although I have my suspicions about Asian women who serially dated white men, but are now willing to seek out financially successful Asian men for “marriage material” (ugh), my main grievance is against Western hegemony, not Asian women. And because we have lived under Western hegemony for all of our natural lives, IR disparity has existed since our time and into our parents and even grandparents’ time — there is no easy fix, but taking steps against Western hegemony, in a subtle and sustainable way, is a good way of taking a stand in the right direction. Sometimes we need to take a stand, even though we may never see our work finished in our lifetime.

  360. @Pete

    Do NOT — I repeat, do NOT touch or get violent with any of those assholes, bro. Just want to give you some friendly advice; it’s not worth it. Unless you get punched first, you could end up in some serious legal shit — and in this day and age everyone has webcams. The best revenge is to succeed and live well — pursue success passionately, RELENTLESSLY, and we’ll find ways to hurt these motherfuckers another way.

    Again, trust me, it’s not worth it. Don’t do it.

  361. My guess is that White guys, while getting privileged status in China, also get intimidated or feel threatened somehow. Maybe its the sheer scale of China, maybe they see their precious Western hegemony being challenged by the industrious and very capable Asian man. Who the fuck knows. Anyways, alot of these expats always turn to be hypocritical assholes hahahahaha, while I find Americans in America to be actually alot nicer, although completely oblivious to the racial shit we have to go through as Asian men.

  362. Let the hatred in your heart be the fire that burns inside of you, that propels you to succeed.

  363. “My guess is that White guys, while getting privileged status in China, also get intimidated or feel threatened somehow.”

    Let’s be honest, a significant percentage of these guys are back-home-losers and/or betas who suddenly are conferred alpha status and develop an astounding level of undeserved arrogance. Throwing their weight around a generally non-confrontational population where the same rudeness exhibited elsewhere would get their asses kicked.

    I’ll agree that Pete shouldn’t initiate any physical violence, but personally, I would have at least verbally confronted the douchebag in the Metro and put “Charisma Man” in his place. Particularly when Pete has the English language skills to do so. Worst thing to do is turn the other cheek.

    Now to be clear, I’ve never been to China myself, but spending a lot of my online hours reading SHEX and the Beijinger, I can see the disdain and contempt white expats have for the Chinese and Asians in general, particularly the males. Its astounding to me, particularly the ones that marry into Chinese families.

  364. @AL

    Yes, I’ll agree with you on that. Fine, we should definitely get up in their face and confront these idiots, but in a calm, collected way. Don’t initiate violence. But I guess if they punch you, then its self defense.

    Yeah we really need to analyze the mentality of the traitorous White male expat.

  365. Eric said: Yeah we really need to analyze the mentality of the traitorous White male expat.

    I really don’t see the need to analyze their mindset much further since it’s so obvious what’s going on. AL summed it up well.

    White guys, being part of the most privileged racial and gender group, grow up with an immense sense of entitlement. Deep down, a lot of them feel that they’re destined to be become rock star playboys, but obviously, not all of them can become that. So the ones don’t fulfill their perceived destiny become disappointed, and the more nasty ones become very bitter. They blame women and feminism for crowding them out of positions of power, or they blame immigrants for the same thing.

    Then they go to Asia, or other parts of the non-Western world, and they finally receive all of the adulation that they knew they deserved. But like the late-blooming geek, these guys still can’t let go of their many years of being denied their right as alpha males. Thus the disdainful, racist, and chauvinist attitudes.

  366. Going back to what we were talking about with Hollywood.

    I think we are talking about 2 different things. Somehow Hollywood’s portrayal of Asian Americans snuck in there.

    My point is yes, it is completely wrong to hire Johnny Depp instead of a native american person to star in the film, “The Lone Ranger.” But, my point is, this wasn’t done because someone was being racist. This was done for money reasons. Name a big company or industry that the decisions are not driven by money?

    Hollywood shows what they think the majority wants to see. You think a Hong Kong film is going to cast an unknown white actor to star in one of their films? Most likely, they will cast a sort of famous actor like they used to do, adding Raymond Burr in Godzilla or Nick Adams in those Japanese monster films. I remember watching a movie called Gen X Cops 2 and thinking how strange it was seeing Paul Rudd on there.
    You won’t see some unknown white expat starring in anything.

    I never said don’t complain about bad depictions. You should always do that. I’m pretty sure the complaints through the years is why you’ve seen many more positive depictions.

  367. Moroboshi,

    You never answered my question as to how an influx of Asian artists is suddenly going to turn an unknown Asian actor from “unproven” to “proven”.

    You keep shifting your arguments. Sometimes, you imply that there’s not enough talent, which is why more Asian Americans need to enter the industry. Then you switch tracks and argue that even if an Asian American actor is talented, he won’t be allowed to have even a mid-budget starring role unless he’s “proven”.

  368. “I’m about done talking about Hollywood. No point to convince you since you arent going to convince me. I guess I will always see things more in a positive light. “See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-208443.

    Just saw this. I’m not sure where you are coming from with these comments. I have already stated that there is improvement in media depictions.

    And I don’t know why you believe I have tried to convince you of anything – I’m simply trying to understand why you think there is no racism in Hollywood. That, to me, is quite a statement – an institution that has no racism. Why isn’t the industry being held up by activists and advocates as a shining example of what a racist-free work environment looks like? Are all the people involved in advocacy somehow unaware of how un-racist Hollywood is? Surely, if there was no racism in Hollywood, it could be used as a model for how a society can move beyond race considerations, so why isn’t it? Why isn’t Hollywood itself boasting about its lack of racism? I’m open to being persuaded, I’m just not convinced right now.

    From my point of view, Hollywood produces – on a regular basis – depictions of Asians that are demeaning that, at the very least, must be a reflection of an attitude or belief system. I’m not in a place to state categorically that demeaning depictions outweigh positive, but I think that neither are you. The question is; do non-demeaning depictions indicate that demeaning depictions do not reflect an attitude towards race within the industry? That seems like faulty logic to me.

    I think that one of the reasons for your frustrations is that you seem to interchange terms so that the actual words have no relevance to the discussion. For example, I haven’t mentioned “negative” roles in any of my posts. I have mentioned demeaning or derogatory roles – surely you would agree that these are different things. Demeaning roles demean the individual playing it and the rest of the people who share that person’s ethnicity. Negative roles – I’m not sure what you mean by that. I can’t ever remember a role in which white actors are required to play a part in which the white race is demeaned.

    So, I see nothing wrong with a struggling actor taking a poor role, but I see nothing in what you have written that convinces me that taking demeaning roles furthers the cause of Asian actors. And I think the notion of the struggling actor demeaning themselves to put bread on the table is overly-dramatic. I have worked with “struggling” actors (and artists, film-makers, and musicians) in the restaurant business for years – that is, they all have full-time jobs that pay their bills, and I have never met a single one who relied on the odd bit-part to pay their bills. If those folks exist, then they are simply poor managers of their own lives if they think occasional work is a bill payer.

    And this is the crux. Asians take demeaning roles because they believe that it will lead to lead parts, not because it pays their bills. This seems to have been the thinking for years now. Yet, I have seen little in what you have said that shows me that moderately successful Asian actors became successful through taking demeaning roles. If you think of some of the Asian actors who have had relatively moderate success – Russel Wong, Grace Park, Daniel Dae Kim, John Cho – would you say that they ever did roles that were demeaning ?

  369. “And this is the crux. Asians take demeaning roles because they believe that it will lead to lead parts, not because it pays their bills.”

    That is actually a REALLY profound point, Ben. Thank you for that. I’m going to take some time to think about that. I may post on it in the next day or two.

  370. BE. Give me examples of what you would call a demeaning role. Give me examples of a negative role. Give me examples of what you see as a positive role. I have already given many examples of positive roles. And would you say all of Ken Jeong’s roles are demeaning? Seems like he has made quite a career playing all types of roles, not just what you might see as demeaning. I know quiet a few who thought John cho’s role in American Reunion was demeaning. But he gets a pass since all his other roles aren’t? I just would like to know what you define as a demeaning role. I’m not sure about what you are talking about anymore. I can probably give you examples of white people taking demeaning roles of you can give me examples.

    So working in a restaurant isn’t struggling? If you are talking about taking a night Job as a waiter so you can go on auditions in the day, not sure that is considered a successful career. Where does that lead to?

  371. Moroboshi

    I haven’t used the term “negative” roles so I have no examples to offer. But demeaning roles speak for themselves – roles that employ racial stereotypes as a significant aspect of the character who is then mocked or denigrated for those qualities. One that springs to mind is Bee Vang’s role in Gran Torino. But I will acknowledge that the scope of the discussion should go beyond Hollywood.

    But I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. Positive roles are not evidence that demeaning characterizations don’t reflect racial thinking. You are the one who has claimed that Hollywood isn’t racist – and I’m willing to be convinced of that, you just haven’t done so. Do you not agree that if Hollywood isn’t racist that they should or would have been the subject of some intense study by social scientists to find out how they do it? What is it about that industry that only non-racists work there? I still am not seeing why you think that racism doesn’t exist in Hollywood – you haven’t explained that. Asian actors themselves – even successful ones – say that Hollywood is racist.

    “So working in a restaurant isn’t struggling? If you are talking about taking a night Job as a waiter so you can go on auditions in the day, not sure that is considered a successful career. Where does that lead to? “– See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-208479

    Struggling as an actor doesn’t necessarily mean not having money to put food on the table. And I have never met an actor, or any other type of artist, in the restaurant business who was silly enough to rely on intermittent, bit-parts to pay their bills or put food on the table. No, the food was paid for by their job, and the bit-parts were simply a way of building a resume. Bear in mind that bit-parts include advertizing work, roles in videos, forgettable small walk-on television parts, as well as extras in movies – no-one is silly enough to rely on these to put food on the table.

    bWW

    I look forward to you post.

  372. Moroboshi,

    Why do you keep dodging my question?

    Also, I’m not even concerned about the outright demeaning roles. I’m more concerned about the whitewashing and the absence, which in turns gives so much more power to the demeaning roles since that’s all we see.

  373. Moroboshi,

    Are you being serious? That’s like saying, “Hey, I made a movie with a mammy role, starring a fat sassy Black woman. But had a White woman been cast, you people would accuse me of being a racist! Geez, what do you people want?!”

    How about a non-stereotypical and well-rounded leading role for a non-White actor? Is it really just stereotypes or nothing else? What a false dichotomy.

    Besides, there’s nothing inherently demeaning about a martial arts role. It’s just that when that’s all you’re given, they become extremely limiting, especially since the role exotifies and simplifies the character into Mystical Asian Warrior, or something similar.

  374. Hi all…

    First of all, long time no post (besides that brief quip in the minimum-wage-is-enough thread, as economic fairness has been another big thing on my mind), but I’ve been lurking! Interesting with the new blood and fresh vitriol and all, LOL. I don’t have any insults to hurl (at least, not yet), but I wanted to mention something that seems to be a common underlying theme of all this, and I’m sure it figures really prominently in Hollywood, so here’s a good place to start.

    Racism often gets thrown about as if it were some monolithic, all-or-nothing, encompassing evil—the tendency to believe that Once Racist, Forever Racist, and if someone is called out on their racism, everything else they do is because they are simply being covert about it—and the only “real” cure for racism is the death of older generations. That kind of racism certainly exists, and is usually what gets bandied about in the media and what gets people up in arms (or in ad hominem attacks!). But there’s another insidious form of racism that is perpetrated by perfectly nice, well-meaning people—people who often even want to be tolerant and to do the right thing, and they aren’t really consciously aware that they’re a part of a problem. I call it “soft racism,” like how “soft power” is a form of power that is about cultural influence, and isn’t direct taking command or exercising violence. So soft racism is a kind of racism that simply slips into the culture under the radar, and but because it doesn’t cause anyone direct, visible pain, it goes unnoticed. For example, the “default human = white”. I do believe that soft racism is a direct consequence of Western soft power, which in turn is caused by Western hegemony (hi Eric!). And really, it is this kind of racism that all of us here are ostensibly here to fix (not that we shouldn’t also help fix the other kind, but, I think most people and the media are very well aware of hard racism and are quick to condemn it … so I’m saying that fighting that kind of racism is not enough!).

    Relating this to Hollywood, I would say that the availability of demeaning roles is more the hard racism, but the lack of positive roles is soft racism. Say, for example, some AM auditions for a part, and gets rejected because “he just doesn’t really fit the role” — is it really because he doesn’t fit, or is it because what their view of what is fitting has been influenced to not include AMs? And it may very well be a financially sound decision, because the soft racism of audiences also will mean that they will agree an Asian person wouldn’t fit, and will punish the studio for its choice accordingly by withholding their wallets. I’m glad to see that the greater availability of non-demeaning roles is increasing, but I think this shows racism is still a problem in Hollywood.

    In IR terms, soft racism is manifested in this very classic statement that I get from a lot of my Asian female friends (even among some who have dated Asians): “I just kind of prefer white guys’ looks/attitude/etc. more… I don’t really know why… but I don’t hate Asian guys, no…” So I can understand where Eric is coming from, where somehow we’re just being settled for, and it’s hard not to feel that. But at the same time, people can and do change as they are made more aware, and at least, when things are pointed out to people (in a not so ad hominem way, or in this case, ad mulierem, hahah). It is part of the maturity process (however, I have made many comments about the instant-gratification, never-grow up, you’re-never-wrong society before, so it’s not like we don’t have work to do). So while I agree with BigWOWO and this blog post (mentioned in the discussion at
    http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/justice-for-christopher-where-is-barack-obama/#comment-207954) , namely about “controlling” “our” women, perhaps there can still be some form of guidance among parents, teachers, better-informed peers (that’s what they’re for, right?) which keeps everyone informed about soft racism and its problems.

    Moroboshi has got one thing right, though… we do have to step up to the plate, hit the gym, and go out and practice and actually meet people, because it’s a virtuous cycle of self-improvement that anyone could use. There is nothing wrong with being the change we want to see and directly tackling stereotypes head on, by our own behavior. But we should recognize that there still is a bigger picture and individual self-improvement can only go so far.

  375. I do believe that soft racism is a direct consequence of Western soft power, which in turn is caused by Western hegemony (hi Eric!).

    What’s up, you motherfucker!! =)) Thanks for your input.

    Yeah, “controlling women” is impossible and amoral, and by now should be the last thing on our minds. I just don’t think it’s possible to change the soft racist aspect with only internal pressure — I advocate that we start building Asia up so we can apply pressure from the outside. And plus form a better, new quality of life for ourselves.

    The problem with Moroboshi is that he goes beyond just telling us to go to the gym and be more romantic, etc. etc. etc. He wants us to accept the status quo. When we confront him with an unacceptable form of prejudice, he just shrugs his shoulders at us and tells us to accept it. The fundamental problem is that we can never replicate -on numerical scale – the level of power and societal acceptance a white male has in America because America is still a white-male-first society.

    If there’s any take away to my posts it is this — you do not have to replicate or follow my anger, my hatred. That is my sentiment, my weakness, and mine alone. But consider what I, and perhaps others before me, are advocating — a formal attempt to cultivate institutions that will internationalize a segment of the Asian American / Western-born Asian community, and allow us to pursue lives as a supranational community.

  376. @cdawg
    Excellent coinage of terms – soft racism, and hard overt racism. Would you consider microaggressions a form of soft or hard racism? I find that to be the weapon of choice by white guys nowadays.

  377. BE: Exactly, what you might see as a demeaning role might not be considered a demeaning role to others. I know quite a few people who get upset to see Asians being stereotyped once again into the karate kicking bad ass.

    To me, Bee Vang’s role in “Gran Tornio” wasn’t that demeaning. Can you list the reasons why you thought so? If you name them, maybe I can understand more. I thought he wasn’t very good in it. I know some struggling Asian actors I know who weren’t happy Eastwood insisted on casting authentic unexperienced acting Hmong actors instead of hiring experienced Asian actors who would have done a better job with the role. I read an article Bee Vang saying there was racism on the set, him only taking the role because he thought he can change the script, is he insane?!?! What director would let an unknown, inexperienced actor give his two cents on how the role should be? All in all, I didn’t think it was demeaning. Let’s look at Eastwood’s line of work including a film with an all Asian cast, “Letters from Iwo Jima.” Were all those roles demeaning as well?

    And BE, there are demeaning roles for white people as well. The only difference is, because there are so many different roles for white people, that demeaning role goes unnoticed most of the time.

    I never said there wasn’t individual racists who work in Hollywood. I always said, Hollywood as an entity isn’t racist. As I said before, if putting stories of AM and AF relationships were what sold, I guarantee there would be no one stopping it. Do you disagree with that statement? In my experiences, the majority of people who work in Hollywood aren’t racist or if they are, aren’t aware that they are which brings me to what Dawg was saying.

    Dawg: I call the soft racism, unintentional racism. From what I’ve dealt with, much of the unintentional racism is based on not begin educated about stuff. It could also be a part of human nature where you want to hire and promote those who look like you.
    I think Hollywood has made good, not great strides in giving others a chance. I’ve seen many Asian American producers, writers and directors. If Hollywood was racist like a country club, wouldn’t they shut those people out? Like any industry, there are assholes and egomaniacs, not sure there is racism or at least the racism you are talking about.

    And as much as you guys hate it, lots of interracial marriages has given people a better understanding of the Asian culture.

    People like to hire, promote and hang out with what they understand.

    Pozhal wrote: How about a non-stereotypical and well-rounded leading role for a non-White actor? Is it really just stereotypes or nothing else? What a false dichotomy.

    Why don’t you make it? No one is stopping you. Why is it Hollywood studios responsibility to create this? There is really no excuse. Anyone can make an indy film for relatively little money. If a film is good, people will notice it. What’s stopping you?
    Which brings me to your question. If more Asians get into the arts, acting, writing, etc. Chances are, you’ll get a great one who will break through. Most directors, actors white included etc nowadays who get chances made their bones doing inexpensive indy films. As a matter of fact, I would say most actors you see do well acclaimed indy films as well.
    Now here’s my question to you.
    Name me one Asian American Indy Film, actor or director you think is good but because of racism, he/she has been ignored.
    I thought Better Luck Tomorrow as good. The director and one of the actors continue to get work so how is there racism there?

  378. Angry Eric wrote: The problem with Moroboshi is that he goes beyond just telling us to go to the gym and be more romantic, etc. etc. etc. He wants us to accept the status quo. When we confront him with an unacceptable form of prejudice, he just shrugs his shoulders at us and tells us to accept it. The fundamental problem is that we can never replicate -on numerical scale – the level of power and societal acceptance a white male has in America because America is still a white-male-first society. – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-208532

    That’s complete bullshit. I never said accept it. I just said, lots of the biggest complainers here, aren’t doing everything they can to work on themselves. They whine and whine and whine but when given the opportunity to make new friends and show how great they can be, they are scared to do so and use racism as an excuse to be afraid.
    Or in Eric’s case, Asian women having STDs.

    I never said accept white privilege. Once again, angry eric is full of shit and all this is based on not being able to get a date.

    Maybe the reason I do well for myself is because I’m not afraid of stuff. When I walk into a room with all white people, instead of hiding in one corner, I go and talk to everyone. The best feeling is showing those who expect you to act a certain way that you aren’t going to be that way. Most people I know are accepting of you once they get to know you.

  379. “Maybe the reason I do well for myself is because I’m not afraid of stuff. When I walk into a room with all white people, instead of hiding in one corner, I go and talk to everyone”.

    That’s easy if you’re attractive.

  380. Moroboshi with the ad hominem attacks. Bring it on son. Meanwhile I’ve got career goals and plans and I am fully committed to them. I may be aggrieved about living in a white man’s world, but I am passionate about my dreams and my will is strong.
    And I will pursue my goals relentlessly no matter how many obstacles are placed in my path.

  381. Chr wrote: That’s easy if you’re attractive.

    That has nothing to do with it. I’m an average looking guy but I do work on myself. Go to the gym, dress decent, etc. And I don’t go into places thinking everyone is racist against me. Most people are willing to talk to you if you don’t act like a weirdo, i.e. PUA.

    Here’s two things I can always talk about for the most part.

    Guys – Sports
    Girls – Music

    Pretty simple and easy.

  382. Most people are willing to talk to you if you don’t act like a weirdo, i.e. PUA.

    Yeah but you compare it to the kind of response you get abroad, and abroad will blow your shit right out the water. Ain’t nothing more amazing than when race is taken out of the equation, son.

  383. If you were born blind, and never saw color before, you wouldn’t know what you were missing, either. But I have seen color, and I’m in love — and so now, while here in America (for the training / money), I know what I’m missing.

  384. Moroboshi said: If more Asians get into the arts, acting, writing, etc. Chances are, you’ll get a great one who will break through.

    You shouldn’t have to be “great” in order to get the lead role of “Dragonball: Evolution”.

    And did you seriously pull out the classic, “Well, why don’t you make your own movie? Or form your own major political party? Or start your own corporation?” argument used by racist apologists who love to drag their feet on the march to racial equality?

  385. Awake and Alive: Yeah but you compare it to the kind of response you get abroad, and abroad will blow your shit right out the water. Ain’t nothing more amazing than when race is taken out of the equation, son.

    Exactly. It’s not the discrimination that gets to me because I get along fine with everybody; it’s the big “Asian tax” that I have to pay when hanging out with White people. This is all the more galling because when White people hang out with Asians, they receive a sizable status boost among Asians.

    I’m the same guy in terms of looks and personality, and generally speaking, regardless of which racial group I’m hanging out with, we all grew up in the same country and the same culture.

    There’s no justifiable way that my social value significantly diminishes when I hang out with Whites, as opposed to Asians (or even Blacks, Indians, and other minorities).

  386. Pozhal I feel sorry if the whites you hang out with make you feel less than they are. Ever think maybe its all in your head? Just saying.

  387. Pozhal, what is stopping anyone from making an Indy film? Justin Lin, James Wan, Ang Lee and Wayne Wang all started by making Indies. And, this was before films cost almost nothing to make.
    Hate to say this but I know Asian people in the industry who complain to me all the time how they have tried to look for a group of talented Asian Americans to work with but unfortunately many who they have met have the same old tired ideas and bore them to tears.
    That is why I am all for Asians raising their kids and encouraging them to work in the arts. I think if that happens, we are bound to see more talent.
    And again, give me any reason why Hollywood should cast Asians the same way as they do whites besides you thinking it is the right thing to do? It certainly hasnt been proven to be a smart financial decision.
    What is your solution then?

  388. Moroboshi

    “Exactly, what you might see as a demeaning role might not be considered a demeaning role to others.” – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-208601

    I’m not sure what you are saying here. How was that role demeaning? It was certainly in line with some stereotypes, but that isn’t necessarily demeaning. So why would you say that role is demeaning?

    Plus, Hollywood as an entity isn’t racist? This is meaningless. What are you talking about? The cameras? Studios? Sound equipment? The paper the scripts are written on? Articles of incorporation? What is the entity of Hollywood? Of course inanimate objects aren’t racist. Who else could be racist in Hollywood but people who are involved in the industry? If you acknowledge that then you have to consider if racist thinking informs limited demeaning roles that are available to Asian actors, as well as whitewashing of Asian characters from lead roles.

    You have actually just made a major goalpost shift, but seem determined to hold on to your beliefs! I actually agree with much that you have said – we have to be proactive, but denying the problem exists doesn’t help, and neither is it being negative to be honest about the situation. Better to know what you could be up against, than pretending those problems won’t come up. As far as I know, there are no studies that show that not demeaning Asians in film and television has a detrimental effect on movie popularity.

    Also, I agree that Bee Vang was poor in Gran Torino, but I thought the acting in general was poor, but that doesn’t have anything to do with the demeaning nature of the role, which I have already described for you. Plus, there are no roles that demean the white race, that is nonsense.

    cdawg

    Those are great points. I tend to think that most racism is about apathy or indifference, not necessarily hate. I think the problem is to believe that just because someone is apathetic about racism that they can be or are willing to think differently – especially in the case of Asians where the racism is familiar, casual, and habitual. So, if apathetic people don’t care to think differently, then the passive, or apathetic racism can be just as damaging as hatred.

    I think that many people are willing to say that they don’t “hate” people of a different race, but are apathetic about hearing that someone didn’t get a job because of some quality that is associated with their race. Part of that apathy is that to speak up about prejudice may mean going against your own community, friends, family, or employer – and few people are prepared to put themselves out on a limb like that, it’s easier to just go along.

    My guess is that racial thinking informs demeaning stereotypes and whitewashing in film and television, but it is apathy amongst the majority to not question its usage.

    Denying that there are significant clues that enable us to consider that racial thinking and actions – passive or active – are likely to be contributing to the limited opportunities available to Asian actors, only empowers racism, because it affords the apathetic majority the opportunity to cite plausible deniability and remain apathetic.

  389. Well you know what MY solution is…

    And it’s not even an easy one. There is no easy one. I mean, wars are fought over who gets to call the global shots.

    But might as well push for a multipolar world, set a new precedent and see what happens after.

  390. BE wrote: I’m not sure what you are saying here. How was that role demeaning? It was certainly in line with some stereotypes, but that isn’t necessarily demeaning. So why would you say that role is demeaning? – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-208612

    I don’t think the role was demeaning. What stereotypes? Was the guy speaking in an exaggerated broken accent? How about his sister? Sorry. I didn’t see any stereotypes that were too noticeable. So can you honestly say there is no one like that in real life? Hollywood just made up these type of Asian people again to demean them? And it wasn’t about 1 type of Hmong, you had the gang guys and the family that was trying to get away from them. How is all this exaggerated? Heck, I have family gatherings where a bunch of food is made by aunts and uncles. And did you watch, “LETTERS FROM IWO JIMA, also directed by Eastwood? How often do you see a Hollywood Produced film that humanizes the enemy, much less the Asian enemy?

    What other roles in Hollywood are demeaning to Asians? Off the top of my head, here are some current roles.
    All the Asian characters HAWAII FIVE O – 3 cast members
    Asian Sgt on GRIMM
    Asian Partner on IRONSIDE
    Asian forensic guy on CSI
    Asian neighbor on THE NEIGHBORS
    Asian detective on THE MENTALIST
    Asian best friend on GO ON
    Asian Partner on SHERLOCK
    Asian Students on GLEE
    Asian detective on MAJOR CRIMES
    Asian main character on HELIX
    Asian guy on THE WALKING DEAD
    Any of these demeaning?
    Remember, these are just off the top of my head. Can you think of a time in Television, this many main characters are Asian? I surely cannot.

    So go ahead, you name your demeaning roles that you currently see in TV. You can name movies as well.

    As I said, Hollywood isn’t white washing characters because they are being racist. They are white washing them because they think that’s what the public wants to see. If people would flock to watch Asian stars, Hollywood would have no problem putting Asians on. Unfortunately, there is still a feeling that Asian Americans are indifferent when it comes to watching themselves or white people on TV or Features.

    And, how come all the upper execs, writers and directors who are Asian not taking any flack? If anything, shouldn’t they be the ones who shepherd more Asians into their stories as African Americans do?

    Again, you have the tired old blame game of how white people aren’t giving Asians a chance cause of racism.

    Hey, I agree, it’s not a perfect system and I would be naive to think there isn’t some form of racism but a lot of what they do is influenced by the bottom line and it is unfair to judge them because all major industries are influenced by that bottom line.

  391. If there is one stereotype in “Gran Torino,” maybe it is the one that says Asians are horrible actors. Bee Vang was absolutely horrendous in it. And have you ever thought maybe the reason you thought the role was demeaning is because of Vang’s lack of range?

  392. “As I said, Hollywood isn’t white washing characters because they are being racist. They are white washing them because they think that’s what the public wants to see.” – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-208649

    Let me just quickly jump in here.

    Let’s say I own a business during the 1950’s, and I tell black people to sit in the back near the bathroom. I justify it by saying, “That’s just what most of my white customers want to see.”

    I don’t see how the verbal-appeal-to-the-Market makes an action any more or less racist.

  393. My point is yes, it is completely wrong to hire Johnny Depp instead of a native american person to star in the film, “The Lone Ranger.” But, my point is, this wasn’t done because someone was being racist. This was done for money reasons. Name a big company or industry that the decisions are not driven by money?

    Yes, any big company or industry are driven by money, which makes them big for obvious reasons. The fact of the matter here is to play Johnny Depp in The Lone Ranger as Tonto serves as a tiny speck of what Hollywood has been doing all along in the film industry. Does Hollywood really deserve to be called as “racist” based on a single film? Of course not. A certain portion of audiences would definitely want to see Johnny Depp even if he were portrayed as Margaret Thatcher in Iron Lady. That’s how the fanaticism goes. But when you take into an account of Hollywood past, yes, we can see this tiny speck of “Lone Ranger” film can be extended beyond the gray area and labeled as “racism”.

    Hollywood shows what they think the majority wants to see. You think a Hong Kong film is going to cast an unknown white actor to star in one of their films? [sic] You won’t see some unknown white expat starring in anything.

    I think we’re talking about Hollywood racism. I (mostly others as well) would be perfectly fine for watching Hollywood depicting their White actors in good/bad/heroic/demeaning/astounding/charismatic/nerdy characters as long as the story line doesn’t take a dump on other racial minority as scapegoat to serve their heroic purposes. The issue we’re talking about here is more fitting to describe as in;
    Whether Hong Kong film industry tries to shoot a story of “Abraham Lincoln” based on Burlingame Treaty story with Jackie Chan and a little help for Jackie Chan with stilts to portray Mr. President.

    That would be a fitting choice for our discussion, Mr. Moroboshi.

    I never said don’t complain about bad depictions. You should always do that. I’m pretty sure the complaints through the years is why you’ve seen many more positive depictions.

    But when we do, you came out and said “Noooooooooooooo!!!!!” Of course you don’t say like that. Hollywood is not racist. It’s about Job Creation and Money making, you suggest. I would say we’re not complaining about Hollywood choice of actors for their storylines. We don’t complain about Iron Man casting of Robert Downey Jr nor Johnny Depp in “Pirates of the Caribbean”. What we’re primarily focusing on here is Hollywood portrayal of Asians in film industry which basically borders on “racism” issue ultimately.

    And BE, there are demeaning roles for white people as well. The only difference is, because there are so many different roles for white people, that demeaning role goes unnoticed most of the time.

    That, I have said long time ago. To repeat
    The positive and negative portrayals of the majority population oftentimes neutralize each other. It is human nature that all we understand. For minority, it becomes totally different and sensitive issue. Even the slightest depiction of minority in negative scene can accentuate the dose effect that it wouldn’t get in majority issue. Besides, sometimes the historic moment or event that would sustain each minority’s sense of pride has often been robbed in the names of “money making”.

    I never said there wasn’t individual racists who work in Hollywood. I always said, Hollywood as an entity isn’t racist.

    So basically you’re saying, the institution whose composition of individual elements is not what it appears to be?

    Let’s break down that scenario. The person^ (who committed raping a woman) as an entity is not a rapist. It’s because the spermazoons building up in his testicles are signaling the neurons in the brains for their immediate release. Typically it should be done with self manual labor without troubling any opposite sex. But because of the biological needs, it requires an opposite sex to fulfill his need without any consent of the other party. But he as an entity is not a rapist. It is just his endowed Y chromosome stimulus* that all wreaks havoc in the first place.

    ^The person = Hollywood
    *Y chromosome stimulus = money making

    And as much as you guys hate it, lots of interracial marriages has given people a better understanding of the Asian culture.

    I don’t hate the IR or the person involved in IR. I just hate the stupidest idea coming out to defend the IR or justify their choices by dissing their roots.

    Pozhal: How about a non-stereotypical and well-rounded leading role for a non-White actor? Is it really just stereotypes or nothing else? What a false dichotomy.

    Moroboshi: Why don’t you make it? No one is stopping you. Why is it Hollywood studios responsibility to create this? There is really no excuse. Anyone can make an indy film for relatively little money. If a film is good, people will notice it. What’s stopping you?

    IF an audience or a fan of NBA Charlotte Bobcats is pointing out “Why don’t you change the offensive strategy?” “Why don’t you employ a new different tactics instead of old hackneyed display of baskeball bouncing around each other?”,

    Should Michael Jordon retort like “Why don’t you buy a new team of your own?” or “Why am I responsible for your judgment?”

    That is why I am all for Asians raising their kids and encouraging them to work in the arts. I think if that happens, we are bound to see more talent.

    Partially supportive here. But instead of driving all AAs into the film industry with the prospect of “Potential breakout”, we should also be aware that Harrison Ford was a former carpenter, etc etc.

    And again, give me any reason why Hollywood should cast Asians the same way as they do whites besides you thinking it is the right thing to do? It certainly hasnt been proven to be a smart financial decision.
    What is your solution then?

    Go back to my very first paragraph.

    As for me, I don’t call out Hollywood to cast Asians in the same way as they do for Whites. They can do whatever they wanted with White boys, screwing themselves over and over again. Yes, if that sells, produce with a lot of sequels. But don’t just take a dump at Asians. That would be my solution.

  394. bigwowo wrote: Let’s say I own a business during the 1950′s, and I tell black people to sit in the back near the bathroom. I justify it by saying, “That’s just what most of my white customers want to see.”

    I don’t see how the verbal-appeal-to-the-Market makes an action any more or less racist.

    – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-208653

    That’s not a fair comparison. Let me put up this one. Hooters are restaurants that make money based hiring hot good looking girls. To make things fair, should they hire guys as well? People only go to Hooters to see hot girls. Does it make them sexist they don’t hire guys? How much money do they lose if they hire guy servers?
    Let’s say this, one day, women start going to Hooters because they want to see the guy servers making upping their profits. You think Hooters is going to discriminate against men servers? Let’s take it to another level. Should Hooters now start hiring fat and unattractive people as well?

    This reminds me of the lawsuit those guys had with “The Bachelor.” I know you and I would love seeing a minority on the show for once we are not the demographic who watches that show. They need to look after their advertisers and hire people they feel their demographic wants to watch.
    That is one of the reasons the producers easily won the lawsuit.

  395. Also, how can you call an industry racist that has given 2 Oscars to an Asian Director. There has yet to be another minority director ever winning and a woman finally won not too long ago.

    Also, there is a growing number of Asian execs, writers, directors and actors being hired. I mean, I know everyone wants it all in one day but it is a process that takes time.

  396. Actually, my comparison is much more apt than yours. We’re talking about race and Hollywood, not gender and Hollywood. Most people believe you can legally and morally segregate restrooms by gender, but not by race.

  397. That’s not a fair comparison. Let me put up this one. Hooters are restaurants that make money based hiring hot good looking girls. To make things fair, should they hire guys as well? People only go to Hooters to see hot girls. Does it make them sexist they don’t hire guys? How much money do they lose if they hire guy servers?
    Let’s say this, one day, women start going to Hooters because they want to see the guy servers making upping their profits. You think Hooters is going to discriminate against men servers? Let’s take it to another level. Should Hooters now start hiring fat and unattractive people as well?

    Moroboshi, I often found your poor choice of analogy.

    Hooters has a purpose. The purpose of serving frequenting patrons with hot girls.

    Let’s say, I wanted to watch a comedy show. I’m expecting to see a comedian, not a deadpan conversationalist talking for hours on stage. If Asians can’t do comedy job, I’m perfectly fine with forking out my money for any person who could do the jobs which will entertain me.

    But if I wanted to watch a documentary or inspiring events, I’m expecting to see a REAL events, not a comedy show. That’s how the purpose of the institution comes into play.

    The Hooters and Hollywood?

    Don’t get it.

  398. Never mind that we have women-only gyms, men-only retreats, and old-people-only living communities. We ought to stick to comparisons of race, since that’s what we’re talking about. All this other stuff is less relevant.

  399. Actually, my comparison is much more apt than yours. We’re talking about race and Hollywood, not gender and Hollywood. Most people believe you can legally and morally segregate restrooms by gender, but not by race. – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-208657

    But it’s the same in terms of how a business makes money. Fine. Here’s another example, sushi restaurants like to hire Japanese Chefs. Lots of their business is the idea of something being more authentic because it was made by someone Japanese. Are restaurants racist because of this?

    Hey I’m not against people standing up and saying hiring a white actor for an Asian role is wrong. More power to you if you do it. Maybe they are finally listening seeing the growing number of Asians on TV shows and films. All I’m saying is, the change comes from us first. We need to show Asians care about whether or not Asians are cast or not. From what I’ve seen, most are indifferent. That’s all I’m saying.

  400. “Here’s another example, sushi restaurants like to hire Japanese Chefs. Lots of their business is the idea of something being more authentic because it was made by someone Japanese. Are restaurants racist because of this? – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-208661

    I hadn’t heard of this ever happening, but if it’s true, then YES, those restaurants would be racist because of that. I’m not even sure why this would be a topic of discussion, Moro. Exactly why a restaurant would hire a cook (who is in the back anyway) based on race rather than talent is beyond me. It’s not just racist; it’s stupid. You should be hiring the best person for the job.

    Rhonda Parkinson is an excellent Chinese cook who has studied Chinese cooking. Manny Pacquiao is an excellent boxer who studied Western boxing. Why shouldn’t they be given their due? Same goes for Asian American actors.

  401. I hadn’t heard of this ever happening, but if it’s true, then YES, those restaurants would be racist because of that. I’m not even sure why this would be a topic of discussion, Moro. Exactly why a restaurant would hire a cook (who is in the back anyway) based on race rather than talent is beyond me. It’s not just racist; it’s stupid. You should be hiring the best person for the job.

    Rhonda Parkinson is an excellent Chinese cook who has studied Chinese cooking. Manny Pacquiao is an excellent boxer who studied Western boxing. Why shouldn’t they be given their due? Same goes for Asian American actors.

    – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-208661

    My whole point is, if a business only makes money based who they hire, I don’t think that makes them racist. And you know that Sushi Chefs are in front.
    Okay what about waitresses in a Japanese restaurant who are also in front. Again, Most of the time,
    So talking about that again, let’s say Sushi Restaurant 1 because someone called them racist hires a Latino Sushi Chef and starts losing business to Sushi Restaurant 2 who has a Japanese Chef. Is it fair to see Sushi Restaurant 1 go out of business losing their customers?
    I don’t know of any high end Sushi Restaurants where the chefs are not Japanese. I’m sure they exist but there isn’t many just like there are Asians in roles but not too many.
    Hollywood is only doing their casting based on what people they want to see. If you want to change things, you have to change the opinion of the people who go to movies, watch TV shows etc. It comes from within.

  402. You’re presenting a false choice. It’s not just false, it’s dangerous on a racial level. Just because you have a Latina in a front end position, doesn’t mean you’re going to go out of business or lose money. There’s a Chinese restaurant with a white front-end lady near my house. Andy Ricker and Rick Bayless are famous chefs who have crossed over into other cuisines, as is Rhonda Parkinson, whom I just mentioned. This is a GREAT example of how assumptions, especially those based on race, are not always right.

    “I don’t know of any high end Sushi Restaurants where the chefs are not Japanese. – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-208665

    Well, obviously most great sushi chefs are exposed early to great sushi, which usually means they’re from Japan. It doesn’t mean that white people can’t make sushi. I just mentioned a few white people who are at the top of their game in making ethnic food.

    “Hollywood is only doing their casting based on what people they want to see. – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-208665

    Again, that’s an assumption. It’s also an assumption that glosses over the fact that Hollywood manufactures demand through its marketing and distribution.

  403. Bigwowo wrote: You’re presenting a false choice. It’s not just false, it’s dangerous on a racial level. Just because you have a Latina in a front end position, doesn’t mean you’re going to go out of business or lose money. There’s a Chinese restaurant with a white front-end lady near my house. Andy Ricker and Rick Bayless are famous chefs who have crossed over into other cuisines, as is Rhonda Parkinson, whom I just mentioned. This is a GREAT example of how assumptions, especially those based on race, are not always right. – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-208667

    Right or not, I’m saying it’s not the company that is racist, it’s the customers deciding whether they want to go to a place or not based on race who are.

    Another example: In the English Teacher industry in Asia, there is a demand for “White” teachers over Asian teachers. It’s not that the white teachers are any better. The students are racist and feel white people can teach them better.

    Company A only hires white teachers and gets a ton of business. Company B wants to be fair and hires Asian teachers but gets much less business as a matter of fact, they get so little business, they are soon forced to hire only white English teachers.

    Is Company A or B racist. Is Company A just giving the potential students what they want? Name any industry that doesn’t cater to what the public wants. You will rarely find any.

    I’ve given many examples where Asian American films are not in demand. Give me examples where there is proven success and Asians are being ignored because of racism by the studio.

    Why did Hollywood cast established Asian stars who can barely speak English and not Asian American actors in US to star in their movies? Could it be because those stars have an audience overseas giving them more of a chance selling their product to the fans overseas so they are guaranteed some of their money back? Again, it’s money, not racism.

  404. And I never told you guys to stop letting Hollywood know what you want to see and what you don’t. It’s always good to do that.

    My friend was a writer on “Avatar.” He told because they were afraid of offending anyone with depictions, they hired a cultural consultant. I believe this guy worked for one of those Asian Media Watch companies. Would they have done this if they didn’t care about offending someone?
    As I said, the racism I’ve seen has more to do with not knowing, not blatantly hating someone. Hollywood is a very progressive place to work in the grand scheme of things.

  405. If Asian Americans actually had some connection, some affiliation with Mainland China, then we could inform China about the inherent racism that exists within American Hollywood Cinema. The officials in China would then be able to threaten cessation of these particular films into China. You can imagine how after this, Hollywood would change its shows, fuck around with their original scripts, all to cater to the Asian preference.

    Unfortunately, some here still advocate avoiding affiliation with native Asian countries. You have cultivated an idea amongst native Asians that we are completely different. Why would native Asians (FOBs) want to affiliate with us after years of our arrogance and derision? Anyways, it’s time that *some* of us consider reinvesting ourselves in that connection. Hollywood shrugs off our miniscule criticism, but an external force by an economically significant Asia, and yes, a weakened America / Western world — would respond to these demands. Consider it.

  406. Now the only way to have clout with native Asia is to become a loyal, yet also (of significant importance) an economically viable supranational community within Asia — a source of investment, entrepreneur-ship, professional and capable talent. Therefore, it is essential to use whatever we have in our disposal to build ourselves up here in the West before moving these honed talents and insights back to Asia. Pursue your goals diligently and passionately here in America, but remember that America does not have to be your final destination — it can function fine as a stepping stone.

  407. Is it really that impossible to consider the formation of an Asian-American expat community abroad? Look at this article:
    http://news.yahoo.com/israel-becomes-promised-land-non-jewish-geeks-120010799.html

    If it’s possible for them, why not in Asia? There are plenty of places that are vibrant areas for creation of companies. And consider the quality of life. Dating, club scenes designed for us… should pretty be enough of an incentive right there, if you ask me. Why not attempt to make it in Asia against all odds? They say in Chinese, there is an abundance of engineers and work supply, but few entrepreneurs with that kind of spirit. Well, don’t we have that mindset in spades?? Lets use the advantages we have garnered here in America, and use it to revitalize Asia — and embrace a superior quality of life.

  408. Well, as I’ve stated before, I think there are a few obstacles to consider in the entire AAs to Asia idea. Clearly reinvesting one’s thought, support, and assistance, to countries of ethnic origin is always reasonable and often profitable on some level.

    However, I think you have to guard against over appraisals of your own significance in the greater scheme of things in Asia. building clout, influence and success, often look deceptively straightforward but are, in fact, notoriously difficult. I’ll explain what I mean.

    Who You Would Need: You would need highly educated AAs of both genders
    in a variety of backgrounds. They would need to be fairly advanced bilingual speakers and writers. It probably wouldn’t hurt if they were fairly good looking in the eyes of the population of their target country of origin. They would need to be pretty up to speed on the laws, attitudes, and cultural norms, of their target country. And lastly, in order to buy into this idea, they would have to be pretty pissed off at the U.S., and desire to exit it—if not indefinitely—then certainly for extended periods of time, leaving family and friends here behind.

    But the reality is that most AAs are not advanced bilingual speakers and writers (by their own admissions) and therefore would have trouble expressing ideas quickly, clearly, fluidly, in their quest for establishing clout and value among Asians in Asia. Also, only a certain percentage of people will “look the part” which always makes acceptance easier. Even fewer are up on the laws and customs of their countries of ethnic origin. And of course, many Asian Americans who are highly educated, good looking, and accomplished see America as their land of opportunity, not Asia. Of all the ethnic minorities in the U.S. Asians are one of the most least likely groups to become majorly pissed off at America to the extent of wanting to completely abandon it and seek a new life elsewhere. This begs the question, where are all of these people that you need going to come from?

    Your Competition As I’ve agued before, millions of Asian-born Asians have already travelled to the West and lived there for extended periods either for their education, internships, or business opportunities. They speak and write their native languages flawlessly, yet their understanding of American language, culture, and attitudes is perfectly adequate for most business needs. After all, Americans in America don’t know all that much about all but a few places where they have lived. californians are not experts on Arkansas, and Texans are not experts on Rhode Island. The things that we don’t know we look up on Google, and most of our shared american experience comes directly from the American media. But Chinese people can also access Google and keep up on American media if they choose to, as many do.

    Your American Baggage Another disadvantage in getting ahead is that your Americanism may present more problems than advantages. When in the U.S. it’s easy to see yourself as Chinese-American, Korean-American, Japanese-American, but to Asian eyes you may simply be seen as “American.” All of the assumptions about the ugly side of Americanism may now be attached to you. Arrogance, superiority, bullying, rudeness, overconfidence, disrespect, know it all, prejudiced. So, you may find yourself stepping on eggshells trying not to sound too confident, too aggressive, or too knowledgeable. But in building clout, these are the very things you need to make your impressions. You may easily find yourself “damed if you do and damned if you don’t.” Most people are no longer anxious for Americans to come in and take over, telling them what to do… even Americans who happen to look like them.

    So basically what is being proposed here is actually much more difficult than it sounds. Even getting together a basic number of people who are willing to stop what they are doing here in the U.S., pick up and move halfway around the world is a major challenge. Most successful people are already on their own road to success already. So who are you left with? Only people who haven’t been all too successful as of yet, or else those who are single and very angry about the disparity—angry enough to leave the country where most of them grew up. I fear that number will prove quite low indeed.

  409. Pingback: Go make your own movie | bigWOWO

  410. “Right or not, I’m saying it’s not the company that is racist, it’s the customers deciding whether they want to go to a place or not based on race who are. – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-208693

    Moro,

    C’mon, did you just ignore everything I just wrote???

    You wrote that customers might not go to a White sushi chef, and I pointed out–in the comment directly preceding yours–that customers don’t mind eating or taking advice from Andy Ricker or Rhonda Parkinson on Asian food. Such decisions have nothing to do with the customers, and everything to do with decisions supposedly made for business reasons. It’s highly presumptive for any business to say that customers won’t like something, just because something has never been tried before.

    And no, I don’t remember you ever providing the name of an American big budget major studio movie that proved that there is no demand for Asian American leads. I blog about this stuff, and I can’t think of one myself.

    Anyway, this topic comes up a lot, not just related to this discussion, but it comes up again and again. So I wrote a more permanent post on it here:

    http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/09/go-make-your-own-movie/

  411. I dont know so much as a boys club, but take this meet up group in HK for example

    http://www.meetup.com/bananasinhk/

    1540 members

    Its easy just to send out an email and ask to meet up and arrange a video interview. Meeting overseas asians one on one at first or in groups, just to see what they are up to. From there you can figure out who to keep in regular contact – ie who chose specifically to relocate there for the purpose of culture, career opportunity or both. You may only have a handful of ‘angry anti- americans/westerners’ but at least of the ones that chose to relocate whose reasons include cultural reasons , being affected by western hegemony is a factor and a point of conversation, even if it doesnt result in all out angry asian stereotype. there are also if you look at that group a number of western born females, so its not just a male thing.

    As for power, it is maybe specified through the work they do – fitting in and doing a job. Historically western born asians havent been known for being leaders in the west, so being leaders in the east without a mastery of the language plus lack of connections will prove difficult, but at the very least you can come close to creating some kind of ‘overseas asian identity’ that simply by living abroad refuses to play the game of the western country of their birth by default.

    Regarding language, there are ways around that,like anything, if you have the right connections, and depending on the industry of choice.

    If a western born asian has an ability that is in demand, why shouldnt he or she be a success in the East?Success is also measured by quality of life, and happiness of the individual.

    Whether that job is an english teaching job, or opening up a western style restaurant, thats not the point. The point is that they are living life out there and enjoying life out there. Its just a matter of making a connection with these people and placing emphasis that it it is a success they are working abroad, and branding it as a lifestyle to be celebrated, which for many, it is.

    It only takes a handful of people to create this ‘advert’ for the new lifestyle overseas. And by having an online journal constantly meeting new people, recording of amusing anecdotes, mixing with locals, catching up with relatives, colorful day to day struggles, scenery mixed with good food, friends, dating, its enough of an advert to sell Asia to western born Asians. As selling the concept of a lifestyle, Its niche, but not impossible.

  412. But what about my example of the white English teacher in China? Am I making it up when I say Asians in Asia mostly want white English teachers over Asian? I’m making a point businesses want to give the public what it wants. My point is Hollywood will make decisions in what the public wants.

    Here are a few that come to mind.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven_%26_Earth_(1993_film)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Around_the_World_in_80_Days_(2004_film)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletproof_monk

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Corruptor

    TV shows that failed featuring an Asian lead

    Oh and Pozhals favorite film, Bullet in the Head

    All American girl
    Vanishing son
    DR.T and Tina
    Ohara
    Black Sash

    Btw, why isn’t anyone up in arms the Japanese are remaking “The Unforgiven” with an all Asian cast.

    http://www.deadline.com/2013/09/venice-unforgiven-remake-gets-warm-reception-clint-eastwoods-blessing/

    Joking of course. It looks pretty cool to me.

    I’ve noticed most Asians don’t really care whether Asains are on screen or not when it comes to American films. If you want hollywood to take notice, Asians need that voice that will make them take notice.

    BE mentioned whites don’t have to take demeaning roles like Asians do. Well back in the 50’s Italian Americans protested “The Untouchables”. Read about how public pressure forced a network to,change things

    Controversy
    The show drew harsh criticism from some Italian-Americans including Frank Sinatra,[2] who felt it promoted negative stereotypes of them as mobsters and gangsters. The Capone family unsuccessfully sued the Columbia Broadcasting Company,Desilu productions and Westinghouse Electric Corporation for its depiction of the Capone family.
    On March 9, 1961, Anthony Anastasio, chief of the Brooklyn waterfront and its International Longshoremen’s Association, marched in line with a picket group who identified themselves as “The Federation of Italian-American Democratic Organizations.” In protest formation outside the American Broadcasting Company, (ABC) New York headquarters, they had come together to urge the public boycott of L&M, (Liggett & Myers Tobacco Company) products, and its Chesterfield King cigarettes, which sponsored “The Untouchables”. They expressed displeasure with the program, which to them vilified Italian-Americans, stereotyping them as the singular criminal element. [2] The boycott and the attendant firestorm of publicity had the effect Anastasio and his confederates wanted. Four days after the picket of ABC, L&M, denying that they had bowed to intimidation, announced it would drop its sponsorship of “The Untouchables”, maintaining their decision was based on network-scheduling conflicts. The following week, the head of the production studio Desilu, Desi Arnaz (who had attended high school with Capone’s son Albert), in concert with ABC and the “Italian-American League to Combat Defamation,” issued a formal three-point manifesto:
    There will be no more fictional hoodlums with Italian names in future productions.
    There will be more stress on the law-enforcement role of “Rico Rossi”, Ness’s right-hand man on the show.
    There will be an emphasis on the “formidable influence” of Italian-American officials in reducing crime and an emphasis on the “great contributions” made to American culture by Americans of Italian descent.[3]
    The Untouchables was considered one of the most violent television shows when it aired and was described by the National Association for Better Radio and Television “not fit for the television screen”.

  413. Am I making it up when I say Asians in Asia mostly want white English teachers over Asian?

    Yes, you’re making it up.

    When we’re talking about Asian American actors, you bring up some movies in which Chow Yun Fat was struggling with the English language as he was struggling to become star material. Or some clowny Jackie Chan movie. We’re talking about Asian American actors, so none of that is relevant.

    Or else you bring up some stereotyped Miss Saigon typed film, some corny sitcom, or some chop socky Russell Wong miniseries.

    Like I said, I can’t even think of an example myself!

    Anyway, I have a separate thread for this discussion, so if you want to discuss further, it might make sense to do it there rather than compete with Eric’s castle in the sky.

  414. Really bigwowo? I’m making that up?

    http://www.thanhniennews.com/index/pages/20130822-english-teaching-is-white-right.aspx

    What about all the other TV shows I named. Just going to cherry pick stuff right? These are projects I am thinking off the top of my head. Why don’t you give me examples of Asian American successful projects that have done well enough and these racist studios are ignoring success cause they don’t want to help an Asian brother out.
    A studio stands to lose much more money if a film fails than a TV show. TV shows are a litmus test to see what others will watch. For example with African Americans,it started with good times, then the Cosby show both highly successful tv shows. Till will smith proved he can star in films, no studio wanted to take a chance. Also as I mentioned which you continue to ignore, asian Americans aren’t tightly knit together like arpfrican Americans making it harder to predict what we watch.

  415. And most asian Americans are indifferent giving no reason for hollywood to give us a chance. So I believe to correct things, we need to change this indifference in our community. Show that we actually give a shit. I don’t think the majority does.

  416. Hey Byron. Like Raguel said, I’m no monkey.just cause you are telling me to move a conversation to another thread, i ain’t gonna do it. Call it the defiance in me.

  417. You’re trying to prove a point by making a totally irrelevant point.

    Here’s your original statement:

    Am I making it up when I say Asians in Asia mostly want white English teachers over Asian? – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-208714

    Then you “prove” your statement by linking an article that mostly shows that COMPANIES have a discrimination policy. Well, duh, we already knew that! We already knew that restaurants used to discriminate. We also know that Hollywood studios discriminate.

    As for students complaining–yeah. I’ve BEEN an English teacher in Asia, and I know lots of Asian Americans who’ve been there, and it was never an issue. I think that was just a quote taken to make a point–it’s very easy to find someone who will complain about anything.

    “What about all the other TV shows I named. Just going to cherry pick stuff right? These are projects I am thinking off the top of my head. – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-208714

    I think I addressed all those TV shows you mentioned, aside from the Dr. T and Ohara shows, which I’d never heard of.

    “Why don’t you give me examples of Asian American successful projects that have done well enough and these racist studios are ignoring success cause they don’t want to help an Asian brother out.”

    See here for my response:

    http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/09/go-make-your-own-movie/

  418. And…I just googled Ohara. As I guessed…another martial arts show. White people don’t succeed in martial arts shows on prime time. There’ve been numerous attempts to have white people doing kung fu during prime time, and with the exception of the original Carradine, all have failed. So why should we expect Asian people to succeed in the same time slot doing the exact same thing?

  419. Damn, I disappear for a couple of days and boy, lots of reading to catch up on!

    @Eric, regarding “microaggressions” at http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-208531, I would say that they fall just on the hard side of the soft/hard racism border. It’s definitely intentional, if subtle, which is pretty much the distinction. It’s when people go out of their way to step on you. Similarly, as far as the IR disparity is concerned, some AF will team up with their WM partners in microaggressions, or otherwise outwardly disdain AM. For them, it’s open season, and we should be proactive and call them out, rather than slink away—this is not, as they would be quick to point out—“controlling,” but rather defending ourselves against the racism (part of this whole game is the damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don’t—if you don’t call them out, you’re reinforcing your weakness, and if you do, you’re being possessive and controlling).

    On the other hand, as Moro points out, there are also IR couples who are respectful (in fact, probably the majority), that may even help to further inform. So we should co-opt them in our quests… a lot of times, well-meaning “soft racists” will in fact try to improve when a facet of ignorance is pointed out—at least if the criticism is delivered in a non-aggressive, non-accusatory tone (that really matters, guys, so in particular, Eric, I’m not so sure how your “hate America” attitude really helps the cause).

    @Chr, damn it, why is it always about how damn ugly we are? Have you actually tried following Moro’s advice? We have to work harder… the unfairness of that is why we’re here, but you still gotta play ball.

    @Moro, we actually might all be on the same page with regards to what to do about Hollywood, and maybe it’s just a disagreement about terminology. In fact, perhaps that also has been an obstacle to activism—the producers/people in charge/white power structure/whatever spend more time getting hung up on the semantics of whether or not some act or choice is “racist” than actually just shutting up and giving the minority a fair shake already. More after I read the new Hollywood thread.

  420. LOL at the fact that Moroboshi’s reaching back for “All American Girl” to try to prove Hollywood’s fairness.

    Reminds me of people who try to say that Asians are well-represented in Hollywood because PAT MORITA!

    Wait, that might’ve been Moroboshi as well…

    Also, how can you call an industry racist that has given 2 Oscars to an Asian Director.

    Yeah, just like how Hollywood racism against Blacks ended the day they gave an Oscar to Hattie McDaniel.

  421. Apologists also love bringing up “Predator 2” to quell any idea of anti-Black prejudice in Hollywood. It’s really hilarious how smug they become, thinking that they just came up with some irrefutable evidence because they could name some crappy sequel from 20 years ago with Danny Glover in it.

  422. Like i said 300 posts ago, its hard to believe the guys even Asian. I believe even Eurasian Sensation can recognize the blatant anti-Asian agenda in Hollywood movies, yet the resident one-man defender of mainstream whitewashing is bordering autistic when it comes to being a political ambassador of the social-engineering machine known as Hollywood.

    Talk about being CIA agendas , this guy is steely-determined, on a mission, to convince Asian individuals who are capable of arriving at our own critical opinions, that we are all wrong in thinking that Hollywood is anti-asian and that all is fair in the world. Very weird.

  423. Hey when I say “hate America”, I don’t mean go out into the street and burn flags. But you can’t stop Western hegemony unless you hamper its instrument, which is the USA, and unless you take down Western hegemony a couple of notches, you will never get rid of the disparity we have been living in for generations now (Asians were here in the 1800s, am I right?)

    So I’m saying just know where you stand. Western hegemony is the culprit, and is fuel that drives our discrimination and disparity, so do what you can to undermine it, subtly if necessary.

  424. Dude, whats wrong with burning flags? Me Awake And Alive, Pozhal, and me are FLAG BURNING MUTHAFUKAZ

    Read my lips

    F U C K A M E R I C A ( and europe, racist slant eyed olympic eye pulling spics, coloniallay minded muthafuckaz and the whole of the western continent , the evil empire and white privilege abusing muthafukaz including that white bald slap head muthafucka that made me walk a mile on crotches in hospital when i had a broken leg FUCK YOU, black people, indian people, hapas of all rainbow varieties except Asian)

    AD HOMINEM THREAD FOREVER MUTHAF*CKAS

    AZN PRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDE

    BURN BABy bUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURN

  425. You know what the IR disparity doesn’t stop me from doing? It doesn’t stop me from being ambitious.

  426. “You know what the IR disparity doesn’t stop me from doing?”

    I don’t really see why it should stop you from from anything.

  427. Stupid iPad tying!! Just one “from.”

    People have a tendency to misunderstand the limited impact that statistics have on YOUR life as an individual. Statistics only talk about broad trends, not about personal limitations.

    Consider if I were to have taken the statistics on African Americans as if they actually applied to me personally.

    Education: Oh well, I guess I’m screwed. I’ll end up as a high school dropout
    Employment: Screwed again! I’ll only be able to get a low-paying job. 🙁
    Crime: Oh no! I’ll probably end up the victim of some terrible violent crime!!

    Imagine if I thought that statistics about my ethnic group defined who I could be and what I could do?

  428. In-dick-King, not sure who you are but you really do post like someone who has never been laid before. Seriously. You need to relax.

    Byron, ok, I’ll play, Hollywood is racist. What can we do to convince the upper execs (who quite a few are Asian btw) to give Asians a chance?

    The fact is, it has gotten better for Asians. There are many more Asians in television and film.

    Again, you guys didn’t bring up BULLET IN THE HEAD or 21 AND OVER which cast an Asian guy in a pretty prominent role.

    Would you have seen that 20 years ago?

    It’s a slow process and takes time.

    I just don’t think Hollywood would not let an Asian person star in a TV show or feature even if it made them money. Money will always trump race. It is why the color barrier was broken in sports, owners saw it as a way of making money.

    Oh yeah, how about this gem that failed. Where is the Kung Fu guy in this one?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic:_Ecks_vs._Sever

  429. King,

    That’s the spirit I like. And I’m sure that the bar you have overcome in some situation would be pretty high too. If I have to put you in the statistics, you’ll be in the right side of the bell curve.

    The underlying problem is if the left side of the bell curve is ballooning, disproportionally bloated compared to the right side, there comes a social anxiety, frustration, unrest, anger which sometimes trigger a state of anarchy in one’s reasoning and all logics. That is not to say it only applies to certain people or race or gender. This kind of bell curves applies to everyone under the sun.

    Everybody wants to be in the right side of the curve. If the curve is proportionate, decorated with a system of mobility between left and right through meritocracy and rugged individualism, it’s the system that feeds everyone a belief that you could move to the right with effort and skills.

    But if the curve is positively skewed, mountain high improbability of shifting to the right within one’s life time, there comes a problem — the problem that could relate to any situations.

  430. Ecks Vs Sever? You google a movie about a white guy who teams up with an asian girl and you ask where the Kung Fu guy is.

    Are you being a stupid fuck-head on purpose?

    And why not post on the new film thread, you fake-asian robot

  431. Random thought, and probably mentioned before; if MUTHAFUKAZ left Asians the fuck alone with their socially engineered microaggressions, left asian women alone, stopped promoting global white hegemony, there wouldnt be this need for this race war. But because MUTHAFUKAZ wont rest, then neither will AZNS

  432. in-dick-king,

    Unlike you, I also see Asian Women as equals and I will include them in discussion about Asians and Hollywood.
    My point is, the film wasn’t about a stereotypical Asian woman in a film.
    Yell at any Asian Women lately? You little piece of shit.
    Love how you got so worked up over this. Whether I am right or wrong. It was well worth bringing up.

  433. King wrote:People have a tendency to misunderstand the limited impact that statistics have on YOUR life as an individual. Statistics only talk about broad trends, not about personal limitations.

    Consider if I were to have taken the statistics on African Americans as if they actually applied to me personally.

    Education: Oh well, I guess I’m screwed. I’ll end up as a high school dropout
    Employment: Screwed again! I’ll only be able to get a low-paying job.
    Crime: Oh no! I’ll probably end up the victim of some terrible violent crime!!

    Imagine if I thought that statistics about my ethnic group defined who I could be and what I could do?

    – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-208788

    Exactly, I have lived my life never giving a shit about what statistics say. I want to experience things myself. Someone says white women are racist, I want to find out on my own and not take someone else’s word for it. That’s how I’ve been living my whole life and it has worked for me. Of course I’m not going to be naive about stuff but being a go getter has allowed me to love life more than hate it.

  434. And although I don’t agree with Asian-Guy’s PUA stance, I do agree with him about Asians having no limits when it comes to getting women. The only thing is, you have to work on yourself. looks, personality etc. You’re not going to get shit by sitting at home whining about shit like In-Dick-King.

  435. ‘whether i was right or wrong it was worth bringing up’ – haha this joker cant even differentiate his own ass from his head.

  436. Moroboshi, you keep telling us to “march onward” even though it feels like the Asian American community has been walking around in circles. Status-quo lobbyist…

  437. @King
    From the post way back – I thought it was a constructive critique overall of the “push for an Asian-American expat alternative” option.

    Those are some hard questions. I’ll certainly have to consider alot of them. I guess the short answer would be that the path would not be for everyone, but somehow we should create the option so we don’t all have to feel “stuck” in a Western country. Somehow.

  438. Moroboshi

    “I don’t think the role was demeaning. What stereotypes? Was the guy speaking in an exaggerated broken accent? How about his sister? Sorry. I didn’t see any stereotypes that were too noticeable. So can you honestly say there is no one like that in real life? Hollywood just made up these type of Asian people again to demean them? And it wasn’t about 1 type of Hmong, you had the gang guys and the family that was trying to get away from them. How is all this exaggerated?” – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-208798

    You lost me here. I was asking why you thought the the guy in the trailer was demeaning. And as for the Bee Vang role, I have no idea why Hollywood or Eastwood would want to demean the Vang character, you don’t know either – and I’m not sure how you can reason that poor execution of a role can equate to being in a role that is demeaning. Your paragraph doesn’t make sense.

    “Again, you have the tired old blame game of how white people aren’t giving Asians a chance cause of racism. “– See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2013/08/anonymous-ad-hominem-fighting-thread/#comment-208649

    The above quote interests me. I just got through saying to Cdawg in my previous post that apathy is a more significant problem in race issues – a far cry from your understanding of what I’ve written.

    But even worse is that I haven’t even said that Hollywood is racist, not once. Yes, there are some clues that should give us pause – whitewashing, invisibility, stereotyping, demeaning roles, established Asian actors believing that Hollywood is racist, and the completely unsubstantiated claim that an Asian can’t carry a lead, all point to something. It could be racism – probably is, in many cases, it could be economics (although the economics argument doesn’t preclude racism as a factor), and it could be that there aren’t any talented Asian actors, but that sounds far-fetched.

    So, I’m reluctant to call racism, but I’m just as reluctant to utterly deny it as a factor in the same way that you seem eager to do – that is burying your head in the sand, or deluding yourself. Again, if it were true that there is no racism in Hollywood, then Hollywood has an obligation to inform the rest of the country how they achieved this magical state of affairs.

    And although your list is impressive, it just doesn’t provide much support for your claims. Asians have actually been prominent in television for decades – people like Clyde Kusatsu, Maku, James Hong, Pat Morita, and Dustin Nguyen have been prominent in regular parts, or regular in different television shows since the 1970’s. Does your list show that the improvement has been as good as you want to believe? I would say that Asians were given bit-parts and token roles back then possibly almost as much as today – is that a huge improvement? It’s almost as though things have stayed much the same. There are a few roles in which the Asian character is more prominent, but still very, very few leads in film or TV.

    You are absolutely correct that Asians should try harder, but denying – for the flimsy reasons you’ve offered – that racism exists, doesn’t help. Better to know the whole picture and plan accordingly than pretend that being asked to be in a film shoot in which you are demeaned is not in some way a reflection of an attitude towards your ethnicity. However, I’m not pretending to know with absolute certainty that Hollywood is racist, you are claiming to know with certainty that it isn’t, but you haven’t given any compelling reasons for why you believe this.

  439. “King wrote:People have a tendency to misunderstand the limited impact that statistics have on YOUR life as an individual. Statistics only talk about broad trends, not about personal limitations.”

    As applied directly to the IR disparity, the facts are that the MAJORITY of Asian women in the U.S. are now, and have always been married to Asian men. The IR disparity just observes that outdating/out marriage disproportionately high among AA females when compared to other ethnicities. So on a personal level what does that mean to you? You just have to be one of those Asian guys who end’s up dating/marrying the majority of AA women, if that’s your goal.

    As I’ve said before, part of the problem is that everybody thinks they want a “cheerleader” which are demographically probably around 7-10 percent of the female population (as conversely, maybe 5% of all men are in the league of Calvin Klein underwear models). And when AA guys can’t hook up with their fantasy, it get’s blamed on “the disparity,” not on their unrealistic standards. But the reality is that many of the girls that might meet their standard compare to these.

    Lindsay Lohan
    http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2006/celebdatabase/lindsaylohan/lindsay_lohan1ALT_300_400.jpg

    Kim Kardashian
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3Djm6Fu1-b8/UXGOl9ObpiI/AAAAAAAAJ50/F2uTAD1gUxg/s1600/kim-kardashian-tao-silver-dress-1565676875.jpg

    Jessica Simpson
    http://www.1920×1200.net/posts/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/jessica_simpson_1920_1200_nov062009.jpg

    But consider for a minute what you are really getting with each of these “rare lookers.”

    Lindsay Lohan: A complete train wreck. Drug addled, alcoholic, irresponsible, insane, dishonest, thief, and I could go on.

    Kim Kardashian Porn star morals/promiscuous, detestable voice, spoiled rotten, shallow whiner, attention whore, low intelligence, gold digging.

    Jessica Simpson Amazingly unintelligent, irresponsible, rather low class, spoiled.

    These are just some examples of women who might “fit the build” in the “she’s hot” department but who bring serious baggage along with them. So then, once you take the already small minority of women who look like this, and then winnow out the “baggage carriers,” how many do you really have left? Once you bypass all the good looking women who have been spoiled rotten all of their lives, and have been using their looks to get special treatment from men since they were kids, what have you got left?

    I make this point because I believe that the disparity should clearly be reduced based on the recognition of the prejudice and Whitewashing involved with AA women. But I also think that AA men (and really ALL men) need to wake up to their own unrealistic ideas about which women are datable and acceptable to marry. I’m not going to say that the alternative is to go out and marry “ugly women” you are not attracted to. But I’ll just say that some thoughtful adjustments in selection would actually help both sides on this issue.

    More to come when I have more time…

  440. “But I also think that AA men (and really ALL men) need to wake up to their own unrealistic ideas about which women are datable and acceptable to marry. I’m not going to say that the alternative is to go out and marry “ugly women” you are not attracted to. But I’ll just say that some thoughtful adjustments in selection would actually help both sides on this issue”.

    Well said, King!

    There are Asian men who exclude dating certain types of women as well.

    I think it comes down to an entitlement issue, when a guy thinks being educated in a prestigious school with a prestigious high paying job, it automatically gives him access to certain types of women, otherwise not afforded to a guy who doesn’t have these credentials. Some of the bloggers such as Urb4n and Kobukson, have brought up this grievance in the past, as a problem facing a lot of Asian men.

  441. asianguy said: how about indian men? do they have it worse than us? i’d argue they definitely do not have it better except for the fact they do not have IR disparity issues.

    The big advantage of Indian men is that White men do not fetishize Indian women. Seriously, have you even heard of “Indian porn”? Indians have similar immigrant ambitions as Asians, and their ancestral cultures are extremely patriarchal, so if White guys decided one day that Indian women were suitable silver medals to White women, then Indian guys would be in our situation.

    There have already been lots of articles about why Mindy Kaling only casts White guys as love interests, and she’s openly said that she prefers White guys.

    Some benefits that Indian guys do have though:

    1) Facial features that are more Caucasian, which makes them seem less “alien” than Asian men in American society

    2) A very real history of violent colonialism and a proud independence movement. A lot of Asian countries, on the other hand, see countries like America as benevolent masters who mainly improved our economies and technology.

    3) Some “Black cred” due to their dark skin

    4) A culture that is big on dancing and festivities, which makes their cultural groups a lot of fun to join.

  442. “how about indian men? do they have it worse than us? i’d argue they definitely do not have it better except for the fact they do not have IR disparity issues”.

    I see more Indian guys with White girls than East Asian dudes in NYC, if that’s something to be mindful.

  443. I think many Indian women do not consider themselves capable of hypergamy, because of racist attitudes of white men. Hypergamy not only creates desire among women for men of higher status, but also forces themselves to consider their own capacity of sustaining a long term relationship with that higher status man. Any man can easily enter a sexual relationship with almost any woman, but for a long term relationship there needs to be many more qualities on the part of the woman. And many white men seem not willing to be in a relationship with darker skinned women. White male racist attitudes cause a different social dynamic than with Asian women, in terms of scale.

  444. King, these studies always talk about “marriage” as the ultimate end. What if I don’t want to meet women who want a serious relationship? What if I just want to date around? What then, about the statistics? Even though Moroboshi doesn’t seem to think so, I still am a relatively young guy. Myself and many other Asian guys probably are not interested in taking the plunge, especially after that Asian woman has had “her fill” of white guys, and now is looking for a meal ticket. Gross…

    I would rather care more about what kind of statistics are for choosing a guy to go out on a date for rather than marriage statistics.

  445. Chr — that’s because IR disparity HURTS Asian mens’ reputations. IR disparity extends beyond the relationship. People need to reason / rationalize everything out, and so when they see IR disparity, unless they know that it is based on White privilege / Western hegemony, they will think there is something inherently inferior about the Asian man. It’s either one or the other. That’s why it is important to inform others and help them get on the Anti-Western hegemony bandwagon, before they internalize more racist lies.

  446. Guys, after debating Moroboshi for weeks and trying to cajole him to give some sort of formative, logical answer, I hope you realize what I have known all along — Moroboshi is an idiot. He constantly gives nonsensical answers, and mindlessly pushes you to “accept the way things are”, giving you the run around / double-speak when you present him with legitimate concerns.

    That’s why I address him as a “status-quo-lobbyist”, because exemplifies the very definition of a lobbyist — someone who doggedly, almost mindlessly pushes towards an agenda — without capacity for reason or debate, because he has a certain objective in mind, and is either unwilling or mentally incapable of deviating from that objective.

    Moroboshi, you mindless proponent-of-nothing, I salute you.

  447. @BE and Moro: Yeah, it’s that damn apathy or general invisibility. Someone else mentioned the term “Plausible Deniability,” which describes perfectly the reasoning. It is always more encouraging to see more explicit, concerted effort, or directors taking a proactive stance with regards to racism, rather than being reactive and only grudgingly agreeing to something (after, possibly, a lawsuit). Also, that thing about it being a tired old blame game on Whites sounds a lot like the usual conservative remarks about people living in poor neighborhoods… “Make your own damn movie” is the new “Pull yourself up by your bootstraps.”

    @King, good points on unrealistic standards and lots of good-lookers expecting to be spoiled and with a lot of really unideal baggage. It’s definitely a problem with women too. I’ve mentioned before that the current culture does not encourage taking time to build a connection, but rather a shortening of attention spans means people tend to make permanent judgements of your dateability within the first few minutes (or as PUAs would have it: she has to be attracted to you even before you approach).

    @Awake and Alive and Chr: Yep, the anti-halo (or horns) effect in action—we get picked on more, held to higher standards, etc. because some form of perceived negativity causes more flaws to be visible—and since everyone does have real flaws, ordinary things that can be overlooked, no longer can be.

  448. Awake and Alive said: I think many Indian women do not consider themselves capable of hypergamy, because of racist attitudes of white men.

    I doubt that Indian women are that much more different than Asian women or Black men. When minorities feel accepted and fetishized by Whites, many will jump ship and consider it an honour.

    Many Indian women probably don’t openly advocate or engage in IR relationships with men because they don’t feel all that confident that they’ll be accepted by White men. So if they acted as some Asian women do, they’d completely alienate Indian men while also possibly being spurned by White men.

    Asian women feel confident in denigrating Asian men because they’re aware of Asiaphilia. Go ahead and ask any Asian woman about when she became aware of Yellow Fever, and she’ll say that she began to realize it from a young age.

    It’s all about risk assessment. Men and women stay within the safety of the confines of their in-group unless they receive strong signals from the “superior group” that it’s safe to trade up.

  449. Chr said: I see more Indian guys with White girls than East Asian dudes in NYC, if that’s something to be mindful.

    At my university in the northeast, there were far more Asian guys in IR relationships than Indian guys. Of course, there were also way more Asian girls in IR relationships than Indian girls.

    I was recently at an Indian friend’s wedding, and there were a bunch of Asian guys with White girlfriends. A few Indian girls with White boyfriends, and 1 Indian dude with a White girlfriend.

  450. College campus environment is an outlier dating scene.

    Minority men aren’t nearly as successful in the real world IR dating scene because outside the classroom environment, women don’t have much time to know you, where they judge you of your immediate looks and what kind of career/interests that you identify with.

  451. The Columbia University dating experiment found that East Asian women are the most open minded about IR dating, especially with White men. Women of other races were more reserved about dating someone of another race.

  452. “Chr — that’s because IR disparity HURTS Asian mens’ reputations. IR disparity extends beyond the relationship. People need to reason / rationalize everything out, and so when they see IR disparity, unless they know that it is based on White privilege / Western hegemony, they will think there is something inherently inferior about the Asian man”.

    Eric, Unfortunately, I would have to agree with you. The real problem lies in the fact that there isn’t anything uniquely positive coming from Asian dudes, where they can identify and capitalize on it.

    Sidetracking the discussion a bit, I have to yet to come across, either an Asian man or woman who is eloquent and can articulate well in a presentation in front of a group of non-Asians. The general public has a perception that Asians are shy and don’t like the limelight. I have come across several Asian women who act as tour guides, but they aren’t many of them.

  453. there’s a lot of indians and asians in the bay area. from what i’ve seen, asian guys are clearly doing more IR dating than indians. if anything, a lot of women complain how indians are kind of creepy and smelly.

    i think it’s the fob indians, if they’re anything like asians, they come from a culture where there’s no game. makes sense since they get married via arranged marriage, hence they’re lack of social skills and “creepiness”. the americanized ones should not have a problem.

  454. Yes that’s exactly it Pozhal. Great description and I totally agree. It’s a risk assessment.

  455. Old news Chr. I knew about the Columbia report for at least 5-6 years now. We are now trying to figure out the why, which we have deduced basically involves hypergamy / risk assessment, and western hegemony, which is the source of white male’s influence in the IR dating sphere, while hoarding white women.

  456. chr,

    i personally couldn’t give a shit about asian women. i find a significant % to be entitled princesses who feel they should rule the world. they have all these beta AM orbiters queued up to date them as soon as they’re single. not to mention when they go online they get all these creepy older white guys who pronounce they’re love for all asian women. http://creepywhiteguys.tumblr.com/

    granted, there are sane and attractive AFs out there but we’re talking needles in a haystack.

  457. Yes I have a FOB-born/grew up in America indian friend (Muslim) and a Hindu-Indian American friend — totally different obviously. Hindu-Indian, very Westernized and sophisticated and aware of worldly events and developments, FOB really different. Hindu Indians are more concerned about materialistic things and appearance, Muslim Indians not so much, at all even. Hindu friend is married, both mid 30s, no kids yet — Muslim had his first child at early 20s, planning on having at least 3.

    Although I gotta say, I love talking shit about America with my Muslim friend, hahaha, fucking awesome. We shit on the goddamn USA so much!!!

  458. eric,

    you keep wanting this asian american unity between AMs and AFs. it’s NOT going to happen. at the current stage there is nothing for AFs to gain from it. i know you’ve listened to the urb4n podcasts. i agree with him. the stock of AFs is overvalued and i’m shorting it. i do not go out of my way to associate with them. the stock of AMs is undervalued and by dating out you are doing marketing to the other groups. more and more people are realizing AMs are a catch.

    look at the rates of IR marriage for AFs. what more than 50% marry WMs? how many are left for asian guys if we are to not date out ourselves? what’s the option for AM, go buy a mail order fob bride from overseas? you have to date out here. and it’s not like you’re settling either, there is a lot in common with hispanic americans, black americans and especially white americans. i emphasize white americans because of the shared socioeconomic class between them and asians.

    there is no asian community. probably 25% of AFs openly mock and refuse to date AM, though i believe that number is decreasing.

  459. Btw, I forgot to mention that there is a growing trend of Indian Dudes who are with White, East Asian and Hispanic women. I do not seen any IR trend with East Asian guys. Ok, some of them with WFs, as this was always the case. A few BFs here and there as well. It seems like East Asians outnumber Indians in the Northeast.

    Columbia Dating IR experiment actually showed that non-Asian women have a strong preference for their own men. Only exception was that Asian women who rated White men favorably over Asian men. So for Eric to say hypergamy and Western Hegemony is the root cause of the IR disparity is not entirely true.

  460. No, I actually agree with you — there is no Asian-American community. I’m glad you’ve found your path. Keep it up, I fully intend to make my stake abroad, but I support your efforts. You’re right, we Asian guys are a catch. Fuck the haters, they can go die in a ditch.

  461. asianguy,

    I think the best stance is to really befriend the Asian women who are strong and proud, and simply ignore the ones who aren’t. Asian internationals are usually great because while they’re very appreciative of their Asian roots because they grew up mostly in Asia, they’re also worldly enough that it’s not difficult for an Asian American to relate to them.

    I really have no interest in wasting my time and energy worrying about some dumb 2nd generation Asian American girl who thinks it’s a compliment to be called “whitewashed” and insists that her disdain for Asian men is justified because she’s too “American”, even though she’ll explode if anybody suggests that she’s not fully American because of her race. No, you see, the unAmerican Asian gene only exists in Asian MEN, not women!

  462. chr,

    i don’t know where you’re from. i’ve just got back from vacationing for a few weeks in socal and vegas. AM/WF is common enough that i don’t do a double take. i can not say the same for indian men.

  463. pozhal,

    http://www.xojane.com/it-happened-to-me/asian-woman-dating-asian-men-jenny-an
    A “sell out skank” AF is linked above.

    http://www.musingsonlifeandlove.com/2012/09/20/howi-pissed-off-a-bunch-of-asian-women-on-the-internet/

    This means that, by my calculations, 19% of the Asian men in the United States are left with nobody. Here’s how I got that number: If 36% of Asian women and 17% of Asian men marry outside their race (according to the Pew Research Center), that means a whopping 19% of Asian men are literally left with no one to marry.

    i believe the alpha asian males should be leading the path of dating out.
    represent mofo – eliot chang

  464. here’s a previous article by denis hong

    http://www.thefrisky.com/2012-09-19/guy-talk-i-date-outside-my-race-because-my-race-doesnt-want-to-date-me/

    Doing the math, you’ll notice that almost one-third of the Asian women on Match.com openly refuse to date Asian men.

    so it’s 1/3 has a preference, 1/3 has NO preference, 1/3 refuses to date asian men.

    so are any of you guys starting to see why it’s extremely logical and rational to seek women of other races. you are not going to win these women back, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE. focus on what you can control. you can meet and attract other races of women who will not see your Asian ethnicity as a negative.

    if asian guys were to put as much time into studying, starcraft as they would in socializing, working out, attractive hobbies things would be much easier.

  465. Asianguy and Chr

    How much do you two care about your potential offspring carrying on their fathers Asian genetic makeup?

  466. Hahahaha. Don’t diss studying man. It’s one of the better things that we Asians do well, or at least try to do.

  467. eric,

    i hope you’re not grouping Chr and I together. i’ve said it before. the number one thing holding AMs back with XFs are themselves. they have self limiting beliefs that are overexaggerated in their heads. they hide out in their asian bubbles out of fear of “racism”. the true damage is done by sticking with their own asian cliques. they start to see insecurity, betaness, orbiters and entitled bitchass asian princesses as the norm. if they hung out w/ a more diverse crowd they would be exposed to other american cultural norms. there’s a saying “You are the average of your 5 closest friends.” if your friends are beta point dexters who starcraft, who just suck at life besides making upper middle income money then that’s who you will become.

    i know what you’re saying about finding that diverse crowd and trying to fit in. i’d do it through activities. for example, on bodybuilding.com the forums have meetups where guys will get together and do stuff. LA miscers crew, bunch of AMs, white guys, hispanics, middle easterners, they have working out in common and party together.

    get some hobbies. maybe join an mma gym, i guarantee you that if you join and train with a bunch of guys, you will become friends. invite guys out for a beer after the workout. buy a round for everyone. ask if some guys wanna get together to watch the football game or a UFC fight. bring a 24 pack of beer. it’s not that tough to make friends of other races.

    i won’t comment on fraternities since i’ve never done it. not a huge fan of young punks with power trips telling me what to do.

    to answer your question about asian genes being passed on. i used to care a long time ago. now i don’t. im not that special. there’s plenty of asian genes in asia. east asians are at least 20% of the world population. im just saying the more AMs date out, the more other XFs will see us as regular americans rather than these insular asians who are too cool to socialize with other races.

    20 years ago, a WF w/a black guy was something to stare at. nowadays a WF/XM is so common it’s barely ever mentioned. asian guys, it’s time to step up your game. whether you think you can or can not, you are right.

  468. “Step up yo’ game.” Been there done that LOL

    Honestly though I think it’s kind of funny that people preach to self-improve yet simultaneously reject PUA as a legit venue for self-improvement. Although snake-oils abound, the right PUA is the ultimate form of self improvement, aside from working out and enhancing your career.

  469. Self limiting beliefs are destructive, I’ll agree though. More XFs are probably open to AM than we think.

    Still, no reason why not to hate on America as the expression of Western hegemony… the source is still the source.

    Face it, AF date white guys mainly because its cha-ching cha-ching social and economic benefit for them. Hypergamy, hypergamy, HYPERGAMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  470. From my outside perspective, I’d say Asianguy is giving some pretty good advice here. I would only add my counter opinion on one small spot.

    Asian girls who don’t date Asian guys are hopelessly lost to you: I would disagree to a point. As I and others have demonstrated in the past by linking to quite a few articles, it seems that the social pendulum among AA females has actually begun to swing back the other direction and the more recent marriage/dating numbers bear this out. So it IS possible for things to change and they are.

    Secondly, a survey question answer about race and dating very often reflects a reaction to a stereotype, not an individual. Often, once the stereotype is proven wrong in the case of a given individual, so also is the bias.

    Example: If a woman doesn’t want to date Black men, she often will not say why on a survey. But when it comes down to it, the real reason is that she wants somebody who is intelligent, and who earns good money, and can enjoy cultural things together like ballet, opera, the symphony, the theater. Those are not kind of things that fit the image of Black guys in the U.S., so on the survey, she says No to dating Black guys.

    However, I have met and dated women who had that very attitude. I have heard the line “Actually you’re the first Black guy that I’ve dated” quite a few times, and it usually come up that they see me as somehow “different.” What they mean, of course, is that I’m different than the stereotype. The objections that they had to dating a Black guy were really objections to a certain idea about what the “average” Black guy is like.

    Conversely, I believe that a good percentage AFs who won’t date AMs are reacting to an idea or stereotype about what Asian guys are like. In SOME/MANY cases it is possible to get past this just by shattering the stereotype individually. However, I totally agree that in the alternative, outdating should at least be tried. Most other races of guys already do this, and Asian guys would benefit from opening their eyes and doing it much more too.

    Oh… and stay away from PUA!!!!

  471. King,

    I don’t anyone is ever a totally hopeless cause, but if I ever met an Asian girl who openly claimed that she doesn’t date Asian guys, I wouldn’t bother expending time and energy to befriend a bigot like that.

    You’re very right about stereotypes. That’s why it always amuses me when women say things like, “I don’t date Asian guys because they’re short.” Even if it’s true that Asians are shorter than average than White men, it’s not as if ALL Asian guys are short. Are they saying that even if they met a 6’1″ handsome Asian guy, they’d still reject him because the average height of his racial demographic is inadequate? Perhaps what they really mean is, “I don’t date Asian guys because everyone thinks they’re short so if I tell my friends that I’m dating an Asian guy, they’ll all think that I’m dating a midget geek.”

    However, I don’t think most Asian girls can use this excuse because they’ll likely have grown up around Asian guys their entire lives. If one were the only family in, say, Nebraska, I can understand this mindset. But since most Asian Americans live where other Asian Americans are, most AA’s can’t claim ignorance unless they internalized identity issues at such an early age that they avoided the many AA’s in their area for most of their lives.

  472. “i don’t know where you’re from. i’ve just got back from vacationing for a few weeks in socal and vegas. AM/WF is common enough that i don’t do a double take. i can not say the same for indian men”.

    Apparently, there’s a good number of “Americanized” Indian guys with White girls in NYC. AMs not as much, who usually are with AFs. The reason has to do with NYC’s Asian guy demographics, who are usually of the immigrant/FOB types. When you have a certain look with preconceived stereotypes, odds are not in your favor.

    I also have to say many “Americanized” Indian guys have more charisma and swagger than AMs. That could be it. My observation is that they are also in situations that involve public speaking and leadership roles, more so than AMs.

  473. I agree with King. I mentioned this before but had a friend who worked on a dating show about a decade ago. He saw lots of applications where when asked who did they want to get matched up with, a lot of the white women put white and some put black. There were also some who put Asian as well. My point is, when my friend went out with the crew for the shoot, the white girl who who put white only on her application liked my friend cause he was funny and interesting. He ended up dating her.

    Just cause someone puts something on a survey does not set things in stone. If you show a woman you are interesting, fun and attractive, most give you a chance or at least want to be your friend.

    The problem is, you got these guys sitting at home (in-dick-king) all the time not working to better themselves and posting angry stuff on blogs which in the end gets them exactly nowhere.

    I’m amused Asian guy and I have been saying the same thing and no one is listening. It isn’t that bad out there in the dating world for Asian men! Why is that so hard to believe! Stop hanging out with just Asians. Get a broader range of different friends. You’ll experience new things.

    And why do you guys only focus on asian girls dating white guys. I already showed how when Asian American guys get famous, they’ll mostly marry white girls including In-Dick-King’s man crush, Daniel Wu.

  474. Chr is hilarious. He’s gone from bowing down to White men to now Indian men!

    Indian guys don’t have it any better than us. Their only advantage is that most White guys seem to (stupidly and unfairly) think that Indian girls are too ugly/hairy/smelly to date.

  475. Moroboshi said: I’m amused Asian guy and I have been saying the same thing and no one is listening. It isn’t that bad out there in the dating world for Asian men! Why is that so hard to believe! Stop hanging out with just Asians. Get a broader range of different friends. You’ll experience new things.

    And why do you guys only focus on asian girls dating white guys. I already showed how when Asian American guys get famous, they’ll mostly marry white girls including In-Dick-King’s man crush, Daniel Wu.

    You really can’t compare celebrities with real people, though celebrities can certainly shift perceptions of real people (e.g. K-pop making girls really like Korean guys all of a sudden). I always roll my eyes when someone says that he or she’s not racist because she likes some celebrity of that race.

    Really? You’re gonna pat yourself on the back because you’ve deigned to admit your sexual attraction to one of the most attractive members of a racial group? You’re the next MLK!

    Also, I agree that the dating scene isn’t THAT bad for Asian men. But that doesn’t mean that things are still satisfactorily equal.

  476. Believe what you want to believe! If you think AMs in America are doing fine, and are doing better than Indian guys in IR, than so be it. I’m just observing what I see in NYC, in regards to “acculturated” Asian vs Indian men and their relation with WFs. If anything, I’ve seen more Indian guys in leadership and public speaking roles than AMs, and AMs outnumber Indian guys.

    The fact of the matter is, this incessant talk about AMs and the IR disparity doesn’t seem to be a big problem; but coming from an entitlement complex, that somehow Asian guys deserve a certain type of women because they have this or did that.

  477. who said anything was wrong with dating XF, my original question was having mixed race kids ie half asian half something else, asian guy was the only person who answered that. although it was kind of expected like ‘theres enough asians in the world, why should i care’

    if the rest of you guys think the same say, apart from moroboshi the hollywood chickboy, thats your choice. No wonder half of you arent even debating the IR disparity, your pro-disparity.

    So what your saying is ‘you’re not a stereotypical Asian geek, because you date non-asian females’ – is that it? I dont get it.

  478. It’s fine to only date AF by choice, especially if you’ve had experience with IR relationships and decided it’s not for you.

    I think some of us are wary of angry Asian guys who’d like to try an IR relationship but don’t because of their own insecurity, and instead resentfully date AFs.

  479. I don’t think that’s the case, many of those guys just don’t date anyone. They resentfully dislike AFs because of their own securities.

    I agree that some Black, Indian and Hispanic women like AMs, but they are not part of their radar.

  480. Asian guy
    Not sure if youre referring to me, but im choosing to settle with Asian , and ive dated black brown white but that was before my asian pride kicked in. So i think you have some kind of dating ‘asian only is geeky’ which I just dont get. Ive said it on the other thread.

    – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2008/12/gender-divide-podcast/#comment-209204

    Yeah you choosing. Hell will freeze over before any woman will get with you in a relationship. Mark my words in-little-dick-king.

  481. In-Dick_king wrote:But again, that depends on the individual. Looks die with age then you only got personality to deal with. – See more at: http://www.bigwowo.com/2008/12/gender-divide-podcast/#comment-209202

    But what if it’s someone like you who was ugly the day he was born and has a shitty personality that had made him the dateless wonder he’s been for the past 30 years.

    I know we’ve all heard this one. When In-Dick-King was born, the doctor slapped his mom.

  482. Indie king,

    It’s not that I’m too cool to date Asian chicks. It’s that I’m not willing to jump through a million hoops to do so. And if it were not for guys like me who seek out XFs. The disparity would be even worse.

    And what are you debating regarding the disparity? And with whom?

    And since u say u want AMs to stick with AFs, the last I checked its AFs who have refused AMs. Not the other way around. So For 20% of AMs they can stay single or seek outside their race.

    Guys who date out are more confident sociable and better looking. You should be happy to have less competition for those entitled Asian princesses.

  483. Asianguy,

    FOBS – students living in the US, or revisit your motherland/other East Asian countries

    Re the 2nd option I dont see it as ‘mail order bride ‘BS’ its like Awake And Alive said- more options. Just be careful for the gold-diggers, that is if you have any gold to dig. Either way, go for it. And better us as kings amongst our own Asian race of people than some white black or brown asiaphile.

  484. Moroboshi

    If you actually listened to the replies majority of Asian commentors on here give to your ad hominem attacks may actually learn something instead of attempting to piss people off with personal attacks when you know nothing about them. If you’re in a position to help Asians in the media unlike us lesser mortals, maybe you should put your money where your mouth is and do what BigWOWO suggested – a podcast. Unless, ad hominem attacks is all you want to be known for.

  485. And what have you learned instead of calling Asian women whores and pushing homophobic insults? Yeah, pot calling kettle black once again.

  486. indieking,

    i actually know a few AMs (vietnamese) who’ve married women from their homeland. does the gender imbalance in china concern you at all? it’s basically a zero sum game. you marry a chinese bride using your american citizen ship and wealth status, and that’s one less woman for chinese male citizens. imo that’s a retreat along with self cannibalization.

    aren’t like 10% of white americans in IR marriages now? id guess that people under the age of 35 that % is much much higher. i think we are better off seeking foreign shores and spreading our culture (figuratively speaking).

    reminds me a bit of explorer Zheng He and ancient China. the royals decided to close off from the world and believed their chinese culture to be superior. they felt no need to explore and settle foreign lands. they ended Zheng He’s expeditions and that did not end well for china.

    my recommendation for AMs is to follow Zheng He, explore all the possibilities. Retreat is guaranteed failure. the world is “multiculturalizing”, you must adapt or you will fall behind.

    as for the race vs culture argument. how about Lyoto Machida? that guy is hapa, he married another white woman in brazil. yet, japanese culture is strong in their family.

  487. king,

    anedotally, i’ve known of AFs who choose white guys because they want their children to look half white. those women are a lost cause.

  488. The whole region of Central Asia is entirely hapas, after the Mongols stormed in centuries ago and took their pick of the blondes. A little known fact of history that gets glossed over — what a world, eh?

  489. What annoys me is that hapa girls usually seek to assimilate to white, ignoring their Asian roots. Which, brings me back to my favorite topic to hate — Western hegemony.

    Ironically, I am aware that my elevated status as an ABC is also from Western hegemony. But who cares, I still hate it anyways!!!

  490. In my view, its all about the disparity. How do you allow for diversity while preventing disparity, at least on the basis of race? It’s a big question, which is currently answered by the zero-sum, winner-take-all mentality, that inevitably leads to conflict.

    A study on primates, in controlled settings, states that a hierarchy is established and fairly stable for many years at a time. However, once in a while, there is a violent uprising with groups vying for power and a chance for the challenger to overturn the system. I think we currently are building up to that point, where one day possibly at the end of our lifetime, Western hegemony will be challenged. Just a thought.

  491. eric,

    look at the asian american politicians in the bay area. san francisco, oakland, vice mayor of san jose, plus all the other smaller asian dominated cities. state treasuerer, california supreme court judge. that’s how you change the hierarchy. you do it through business, politics not by immigrating to asia. you attack the system head on.

    John Liu is running for NYC mayor, he will not succeed. however, the fact that there are asian american politicians shows that its possible to have an asian face and be a symbol of power in america.

    how about this guy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Yong_Kim he was president of Dartmouth university (ivy leauge) and now nominated by obama to be the next president of the world bank.

    none of this would happen, if they moved back to asia.

    you wanna know the strategy? this is going to be kind of weird but here goes.

    for asian american males, trust in your genetics and DNA. our genetics gave birth to east asian culture in asia which in turn contributed significantly to the arts and sciences we have today. this continues to this day in america, we have significant overepresentation of asians in the hard sciences, nobel prize winners etc… asians have been discriminated against since the beginning of time in the western world, yet we still succeed. natural selection has NOT wiped us out like the native americans. we have knowledge of our ancestral history unlike the descendants of black american slaves. we’ve become the highest earning ethnic group, surpassing the white european descendants.

    so trust in yourself that you can do whatever is necessary to succeed in any environment no matter the hardship. this also means that in a foreign land (western world) that you must adapt. the japanese did, hence the didnt get overrun by the europeans like every other country did.

    so asian dudes, quit the asian cultural bullshit. be like bruce lee, keep what works and toss out what does not. be cold and rational not uselessly sentimental.

    if america desires that men be more assertive and physically dominant then do just that. maybe more asian men should take shots to become entrepreneurs and business moguls. try for politics (sam yoon). there are more occupations out there besides engineering, law, medicine and finance. be a leader, but before that can happen you have to believe you can. be that fighter, be like martin luther king, cesar chavez, steve jobs. don’t be a weak little bitch who goes along with what your mommy and daddy wants you to be. be what YOU WANT TO BE.

  492. Asianguy,

    In the west, where , for sure, we are socially engineered to find certain people attractive because of A B C or D, its all the more reason we should question whether our racial attractions are genuine, or whether because its what we’ve been trained to believe.

    In an age of multiculturalism and making fun of hapas is racist, making fun of gays is sexist, making fun of sellout Asian women is misogynist and yet racial microaggressions are fun, even cool for mainstream to make fun of asian guys… you ultimately, still have a choice.

    Fall in love with non-Asian , have a non-Asian, really up to you. But saying youre denying an Asian guy, denying a guy from China of a wife is lame. Youre of Asian blood. Western Born Asians are the dream of every FOB, doesn’t matter what part of East Asia your parents were originally from, all come to the west for a better life. Even now, possibly aware of racial issues, East Asian FOBS still choose to emigrate to the west, because of practicality. Just because its cool in some circles to dissolve your bloodline thanks to trendy multiculturalism doesnt mean you have to follow suit.

    Our race is not our ‘problem’ its theirs – just because we dont have an Asian community doesn’t mean you cant retain a sense of pride despite the insidious hate that is set out to wear you down. Rise above it, just not by looking down on your own people because you’ve been programmed to without

  493. indieking,

    it is about denying an asian guy in china of a wife. you can’t hack it here therefore you must go back to the home country to buy a wife. i’ll believe your ideas of bloodline purity if you stay in china permanently. you know the odds of your grandchildren becoming of mixed race in america is astronomically high. so why stay here?

    im on the same page as Genghis Khan. i believe in our culture. it should be spread far and wide. just like the british empire was spread far and wide. now the entire world lives in their culture. china chose to stay reclusive. that was not effective.

  494. Notice how I embrace my American-born nature, and the cultural positives. I do that both with my American nature and my Asian nature. But you see moving to Asia as a retreat? Hardly. Moving to Asia means connecting with a power structure that is independent with these Western states. Connecting with Asia means having a newfound option of applying that power TO the United States. Who ever said that we would be done with the West when we move to Asia? Leverage externally works just as effectively as internal pressure and advocacy. A threat from China to cut out a movie from the Chinese market, because of negative Chinese portrayals = millions of dollars lost from the USA. If we can extend that kind of pressure for other slights against Asian Americans, think how much we could affect pro-white media.

    The question is only: how — which is what King brought up. A tactical plan is still in progress. But strategically, the shift from Asian-American to “American-Asian” (weight goes to the last word in the hyphen) is a sound one. We can have domestic Asians living in America, while others who choose to connect us to the rising star of Asia should be given the opportunity.

    Asia is a rising star. What is wrong with connecting ourselves with the star? Domestic advocacy is great — we have people like Byron and others advocating for us here, we can do the things you mentioned above. But think of how valuable a connection with Asia can be. If we have the capacity to foster it. The world is being internationalized, what downside is there if a few of us decide to pursue a life abroad, drawing from the resources of America to fuel our ascent?

  495. Activism and business doesnt necessarily go too well together,unless you have a core Asian type business or youre in the business of Asian activism, whatever unique business that may be, probably something to do with design,clothing, media

    But youre right, Entrepreneurial-ism is a good way forward,for the asian individual leader to stand out as an individual.

  496. Must we be absolutist? Is it really — one way or nothing? Can we not accept the possibility of having two roads for Asian Americans to follow — one domestic, one abroad?

  497. Entrepreneurs are the most effective way for Asian Americans to connect to Asia en masse. All you need is an idea, and that we have plenty of.

  498. Take the finest ideas in the West, look around you at the successful businesses here in America, and think to yourself: “Could I make this work in my ethnic mother country?”

    I condemn Western hegemony, but I never said I condemned all of Western culture. I think some parts of Western culture are quite advanced and beneficial, and we should feel fully comfortable in using what works for us, while discarding its flawed parts (the way the West treats the elderly, for example, is disgusting.) I also feel likewise about Asian culture — I keep the good parts (the acceptance of pain, the delay of gratification, the discipline, the sacrifice), while I discard subservience and passivity at the wayside.

    So yes, Asianguy, I agree with you on incorporating what works, though that goes for Western culture as well as Asian culture. Incorporate what works, fellas. Incorporate that shit like the Borg.