I’ve been dealing with lots of non-blog related work recently, so apologies if the long-style blogging slows down.
In the meantime, I just thought I’d post this up: The End of Courtship. According to the article, guys don’t ask out women any more. Instead, they text, Facebook, or tweet, and they ask to “hang out.” It says that they hook-up more too. My main question is: Is this true? If so, is it just New York, or is it everywhere? I want to ask if it’s true across race, but I’m guessing that if many people are doing it, many people of all races are probably doing it. (I’ve never seen “Girls,” so I can’t get my info from TV!)
This comment is enlightening:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/fashion/the-end-of-courtship.html?comments#permid=37:1
BTW, it looks like many of the comments in the comment section are discussing Ms. Yeoh. Most are saying that they’re happy she put her foot down. Lots are also saying that this “trend” is being exaggerated in the press.
I see plenty of couples at concerts, plays, amusement parks, restaurants, beaches, hiking… I wonder what they’re doing if they’re not dating? I think that social media does add another layer, but sooner or later, people want to get together for a movie, or dinner. It’s nothing like the end of courtship.
[Aight, I'm approving ONE of Chr's comments. Just one. That's all.]
@ Byron
Do you think this changing trend in dating will benefit many Asian men who are reluctant to step out of their comfort zones in the traditional sense of meeting new people for dates? I see this trend eliminating the dating stigmas of Asian men that we have been hearing about for ages.
Being rejected via a text message from a girls seems a lot less painful than a face to face “I’m not interested” response. Hanging out in platonic groups to socialize with the opposite sex seems more comfortable for a guy, than being at a bar, club or even at a formal social function, where he has to initiate a conversation with a specific girl and persuade her to give out her number and follow up to land a date.
Everybody not just Asians go through reluctancy of dating. I don’t know when this became an Asian Man issue. It’s because some fat short little guy who exaggerates is trying to pedal his snake oil telling everyone it is an Asian male only problem. If I never went out, stayed at home and only read stuff on the internet, you would think that. Luckily most people go out and don’t stay introverted at home like some of these naysayers.
With that said, I was dating a gorgeous “white”girl where we would never talk over the phone but it would be daily witty texts and asking if she would be available to “hang out” on certain days. We’d go for coffee, bars or dinners, she’d let me pay for stuff and these “hang outs” would eventually end up at my place. I think when a girl lets you pay for everything, it’s kind of a message she has interest in you, but that’s another issue I won’t get into.
I would never ask a girl I have any interest in to hang out with friends. Especially in the early stages, what if she finds more interest in your friend? Lots of variables and you’re just asking for it. And if a girl wants to hang w you w a bunch of her friends, I take that as a sign she doesn’t really have that much interest in you and sees you only as a friend. This isn’t an absolute but that’s what I’ve noticed from my experiences.
With that said, I have no problems going out with a group of friends and those friends bringing new people. It is probably the best way to meet anyone. I just don’t want to invite all my friends out with me when I’m going out with a girl I’m interested in unless she’s my girlfriend.
But on the bright side, if a girl you aren’t interested in asks you to hang out with her and her girlfriends. I’d say that’s a win win situation for you.
So I’m just going to admit a few things: 1) I did not read that article–in its entirety. 2) Apparently, I’m part of a dying breed at the ripe age of 21 and change who still thinks highly of the idea of courting. 3) She, me, does not have time for this ‘hook up’ culture (now that’s some American BS this immigrant child is not down with, LOL)
I don’t believe everyone is hooking up. I think a few are and many people know about it. The majority, however, is pretending, confused, by themselves, or they are already in a relationship. My guess is 20 percent are hooking up the other 80 knows about. Well, at least that’s the feeling I get when I think about when I lived on campus.
Tech and Dating:
)than my number mainly because I’m not attached to phone like most people. It’s my watch, alarm clock and music for the ride home.
Yes, there seems to be less anxiety to asking someone out over a text or saying ‘wanna hang’. If the response is ‘no’ then one’s ego can be easily bandaged back together by simply deleting the text and moving on. Although, I prefer to give my email address (which I’m pretty sure is like the Pony Express now,
As I am 21 pushing 40 I would not think highly of or even take serious someone who’d ask me out via text especially if it is with text lingo (but that’s a whole other thorn in my ass. CRINGE).
My one big problem with relying heavily on technology is that it’s fast. What I mean by ‘fast’ is: a tad bit immature and inconsiderate (A last minute text invite, really? If I respond does this mean I don’t have a life?), breeding ground for confusing, lack of clarity (So, are we a couple or is this still part of the hooking up rule? What are the rules by way?), inappropriate measures of desperate-ness (sending nude pics, seriously have some class).
I’m going to go out on limb and say: ‘I feel that technology in this particular manner is either contributing or exacerbating the issues regarding the boomerang generation/emerging adults.’
And that’s my ‘come at me bro’ moment.
Sign,
The Modern Old Soul
thank god I am not in the dating scene anymore. But when I was dating, 4-5 years ago, it was still fairly formal, at least in my experience. Or maybe it was more so, w/ older guys in NYC (35+). But then again, w/ some 20-somethings, they would want to set a date ahead of time. So maybe it’s b/c I wasn’t available too much, so they would have to make me commit to a date in advance. So I think guys, if really interested in you, will make things more formal if they think that’s what it takes to get your attention. And vice versa – if a girl really really likes a guy – she starts changing too to get his attention. But she really shouldn’t in the beginning. Maybe I’m old fashioned, but girls seem too easy these days.
As for moro’s tips on dating/who pays etc. It depends.
If I have a guy pay for everything even after the 1st date, it means, yes I’m interested for now and want to see where it goes. If I continue letting the guy pay for everything and I don’t really get him any gifts or do anything thoughtful which costs me time and/or money, then it means I’m not swooned by him and am just taking advantage of him b/c I know he’ll do anything for me. And eventually I’ll get bored and find someone else, but call this dude up if I want a free meal or have no plans for that night. I think a lot of girls do this in their 20′s. Especially when the guy thinks the girl is “out of his league” so he continues to empty his pockets to keep her around.
If I have a guy hang out w/ my friends AFTER I’ve been on a date with him, then it means I do like him and consider him a potential bf and want my friends to meet him. If I have a guy I’ve never spent time w/ alone just meet me and my friends at a bar, then I probably don’t want it to be serious….. OR I don’t want him to THINK I really like him just yet. But test how much he is interested pending on if he comes alone, or comes w/ bros. If he comes alone – he came for me. If he came w/ his friends, he’s not brave enough to come alone. minus 1 point. It also depends on what I do at the end of the night – take off w/ my girlfriends to another bar, or tell my gf’s that I’m going to another bar w/ him.
Linda wrote: If I continue letting the guy pay for everything and I don’t really get him any gifts or do anything thoughtful which costs me time and/or money, then it means I’m not swooned by him and am just taking advantage of him b/c I know he’ll do anything for me. And eventually I’ll get bored and find someone else, but call this dude up if I want a free meal or have no plans for that night. I think a lot of girls do this in their 20′s. Especially when the guy thinks the girl is “out of his league” so he continues to empty his pockets to keep her around.
I agree with this in some degree But, there is a difference in the word, “Let” and “Expect.” I was always raised thinking being the guy, I’m who should pay. “Let” means the girl offers but you don’t accept. If the girl you are dating is broke and you are making good money, I see no problem with that as long as she offers and as Linda says, does something thoughtful that costs her time for the guy.
There are girls who also expect you to pay all the time. That’s a whole different thing in itself. But yes, you don’t want to be the guy who is only around when the girl is bored or hungry. Another thing, when a girl is super attractive, she’ll have many guys ready to foot the bill and even guys who will foot the bill just to be around her not ever hooking up. And yes, I agree in most cases guys who feel the girl is out of their league will offer to pay for stuff more. Unfortunately, a girl in her twenties who is super attractive will be more likely to have guys lined up wanting to pay for everything because they are the most wanted in the dating world.
Also there is a difference in paying because you are nice or paying just because you think that will help you get the hook up. If you’re paying just so that you may hook up, you are better off getting a professional than wasting your time with a girl who probably is using you.
There was another super attractive girl 20 something I was seeing. I remember when I got her voicemail, her mailbox was always filled up and you couldn’t leave a message. I was never sure if she got tons of messages a day or if she kept it like that so guys couldn’t leave messages for her.
And to reply to what Ann was talking about, yes I believe also that not that many single people are hooking up. It is a lot of times over exaggerated. Clubs and bars may be the worst places to meet anyone. Most of the time, there are girls who have boyfriends who are just going out there to look good and have fun (having many guys swoon over them) I’ve noticed a trend of my friends meeting their girlfriends online or through friends because, you know you are getting someone who is single who is interested in dating you. I never understood why PUAs put so much stock into these places (clubs). They are the worst for meeting anyone and I’m sure if one of those guys were being truthful, they’d tell you the same thing.
Again, these aren’t absolutes. And I want to say again, the dating world is tough for everyone, not just Asian men.
I’m glad to see a female’s perspective on these subjects. Much better than paying some guy or girl who gives advise based on taking your money, ie PUA.
Regarding what Anna said, I think there is something character building in saying (as opposed to texting) what your intentions are. It always strikes me as strange when people text rather than speak when it comes to important stuff–asking someone out, making a business deal, etc. But I might be old fashioned in this regard too.
I don’t think the technology makes that much difference, because if guys wanted to actually take women out on ‘proper dates’, they would do so over text as well. There’s a subtle but very important difference between hanging out and dating because they elicit different responses and expectations in people.
Damn my grammar. Guys can’t take women out on ‘proper dates’ through text, but they can certainly ask them out on ‘proper dates’ through text.
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