The media finally coming around…or not

Mojo sent the following article: Familiar ad trope: Pairing white men and Asian American women. Some of the ads are the ones that we’ve discussed here before, like this one for example. If you look at the comments, there are tons and tons and tons of white guys who are defending the pairing in the media. You all know my view on this–I’m supportive of the Celebrity Club, but I also think we need some variety.

(By the way, check out the look on the Asian acTOR’s face in the Ruffles commercial. I can’t help but think that there’s some kind of “Oh, they put another Asian woman in a commercial opposite me–and she ain’t with me!”)

In any case, there was recently a whole lot of nonsense around an xojane article, where one Asian woman said she didn’t date Asian men, and then another came out and then said she did, and then a famous Asian American restauranteur came out and got personal against both women, calling both women “idiots.” It’s a common idea that more discussion leads to greater understanding, but I think that depends on how the discussion is conducted. The internet model–where one Asian woman professes undying love to the White man, and then another says she likes Asian men, and then some restaurant owner who personally attacks both of them–doesn’t always work. A lot of times it’s just people standing on their soapbox and getting loud. No one is listening, and no one is communicating.

That’s why I say that it makes sense sometimes to sit there and read/write/think. All this noise is sometimes not very helpful. We all know what the problem is. (Well, most of us. Some of the delusional are just delusional.) For people new to the issue, these women have a right to speak, and yes, the end result will probably be a whole lot of people wasting their time gawking over who can get down, dirtier, and tackier. For those who have been discussing this issue for years (oh, WOWO just passed its four year anniversary!), we’re best off coming from a place of quiet, a place where we can learn to see that which we can’t (a good antidote to delusion.). Sometimes the solutions are within us, rather than somewhere else.

Edit: This one is all kinds of ironic:

“Good job, baby.” It reminds me of what happens when a White guy says “Ni Hao” to Chinese people. All of a sudden there are people jumping around, acting like he’s some kind of genius.

81 thoughts on “The media finally coming around…or not

  1. Like I said before, Asians were complaining a decade a go about there wasn’t enough Asians on the TV. Now that there are guys like me who see how beautiful they are, you guys want to take them away because they are paired with White guys. This is nothing but pure jealousy and nothing more. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

  2. I’m floored that this subject made into a WaPo article. Maybe we’re not the only ones who find it weird that Asian men don’t seem to exist in the popular media.

  3. Asian Americans are complaining because you’re still not doing it correctly. Also, had you read the article in it’s entirety, you would have noticed that everything has remained the same.

    The section where progress was mentioned was pointing out the shows and commercials which contained Asian MEN and white WOMEN.

    Oh, wait.

    It’s you.

    Sorry, I didn’t realize I was being trolled.

  4. @uRBAN In fact, I did read that section. I don’t care if they pair Asian guys with White women or not. I just want to keep Asian women and White men together because it looks sexy. Don’t call me a troll!

  5. You guys are really going to hate that movie Looper then. Bruce Willis getting some Asian girl.

    I think the real issue is whenever Asian producers try to make a movie with an Asian male lead where he gets with an attractive non-Asian female audiences can’t relate cause they don’t see it in everyday life combined with not many non-Asian women having Asian guys at the top of their attractiveness lists as compared to the other races of men. Two relatively recent examples I can think of
    being Shanghai Kiss and Warriors Way were that were massive failures.

    Where as they see average looking White men with attractive Asian females in their local shopping center on a daily basis so it makes that pairing seem more normalized on the screen.

  6. “I think the real issue is whenever Asian producers try to make a movie with an Asian male lead where he gets with an attractive non-Asian female audiences can’t relate cause they don’t see it in everyday life combined with not many non-Asian women having Asian guys at the top of their attractiveness lists as compared to the other races of men”.

    There is a high disproportionate amount of physically unatttractive guys in the Asian community to say Asian men suck in the looks department, which in turn effects a host of other things besides sexuality. American society generally frowns on Asian men.

  7. “The section where progress was mentioned was pointing out the shows and commercials which contained Asian MEN and white WOMEN”.

    Urb, being a fellow NYer yourself, never mind the commercials. How many AM/WF couples do you see on a daily basis in MANHATTAN? I’m sure you going use to your mantra that Asian men have it tough in the Big Apple.

    But then how many Asian guys in the Big Apple are physically attractive enough to garner attention from non-Asian women? Not many from what I’ve seen.

  8. To @Siegfried

    Dude, I’m not going to deny that some asian dudes are just getting this situation so far, if they complain FOR EVERY asian/white couple that they see, they will have serious mental issues sooner or later; however, I’m not naive, I’m not asian nor white, and from my perspective there is something weird about AF/WM paring in media. Most of whites date other whites, most of blacks date other blacks, and the same goes for hispanics and asians, but when we are talking about media, we can see that most of asian women are paring with white males, Is not it suspicious?, the important issue here is not to discuss the presence of interracial couples in media, but what’s going on with asian males in media?, in movies, TV and ads, is very weird to find an asian couple, that’s the point

  9. Then your comment is moot because, once again, you didn’t actually address the article and just decided to run your mouth to reinforce your own type of discrimination.

  10. It is not suspicious, it’s blatant.

    Siegfried only believes in taking, not giving. I have several white man friends who have dated Asian women in the past but unlike the majority of white men, have also helped project a healthy image of Asian men.

    In essence, they would show Asian men with white women.

    Almost all white men are not like my friends though. They want to claim entitlement to Asian women but also cut off Asian men to white women. Ironically, to borrow Siegfried’s quote, they DO want their cake and eat it too.

    He, as a white man, just told Asians that they can’t have their cake and eat it too but when it comes to white men, he wants to be able to have their cake and eat it too.

  11. Chr,

    From what I and my girlfriend have seen, it’s still very rare but she likes it that way because she enjoys the fact that we’re the center of attention. That being said, she and her non-Asian girlfriends have given me great and incredible insight on outside opinions. I just don’t feel like typing it out at the moment.

    I don’t wish to hijack the thread so I’ll just leave it at that but did have one thing to add. Given the rampant destruction white men have done to the Asian man’s sexual image, I still think we’ve been pretty resilient considering the number of Asian men dating out.

  12. Ubrana, AF/WM has been going on strong for decades now. According to that article, since World War II and the Veitnam war. I don’t see it stopping anytime soon.
    If the table was turned, you probably would feel the same way as I.
    There’s a special beauty in Asian women which more than any other race. They age slowly compared to white women after their twenties. The silky black hair and the eyes that captured Americans soldiers heart. The timeless beauty which is theirs alone.
    I can not force them to come back to Asian guys. They are women of freewill. But you guys lost the wars and now we are enjoying the spoils. Maybe it would have been different if Japan defeated America. So you just have to live with it. I think you can find a way to adapt to the situation.

  13. Once again, addressing nothing except fielding any response as soon as your name is brought up.

    I’ll remember the spoils comment and pass it down to my children when white America and Europe are overrun with color people.

    I think a screenshot will suffice.

  14. my whole point is this, media for some reason have an agenda about asian females, it can sounds paranoiac or something but c’mon, it’s not a surprise. Asian women are the only type of females who are ALWAYS dating or married with white males in media, and when I say media that includes TV, movies, ads and even porn (in this last one asian men have no game); is not wrong to show an IR couple whatever its composition, but why media is so selective when is about asian women?, what’s going on with asian males?. Media has a clear purpose of popularization and standardization of WM/AF couples, is not enough to say “I see asian females dating white males everywhere, so they are showing the reality”…..is true that WM/AF couple are growing everyday, but the number of this kind of couples are low compared with AF/AM couples in reality, so why the proportions change so dramatically on mediatic productions? is also uncommon to see an Asian man with a female partner. I don’t know you guys, but the evidences are clear, hollywood have an agenda with asian females

  15. Urban wrote: From what I and my girlfriend have seen, it’s still very rare but she likes it that way because she enjoys the fact that we’re the center of attention.

    Wow that is pretty sad. Not saying that doesn’t happen in NY cause I’ve never lived there but if you feel WMs are treating you different and noticing you are w WF, couldn’t it be because you both choose to notice it?

    I think you’re hanging out in the wrong places if people look at a AM and WF strangely. I could see isolated incidents happen here in there but you and Chr make it seem like NY is Cowboy country not the media capital of the word with tons of minorities from all over the world.

    I also don’t consider landing a white woman as a trophy or see them as the key for AFs to like AMs so maybe another reason I don’t notice.

  16. a question.

    Have you ever imagined all asian women dating white guys?, I know it sounds ridiculous, but this growing ” trend” obviously will change american demographics in some years. I´m from latinamerica, in the era of Spanish conquest and colonization, native men experienced a hard time that led to their extermination, many of them died in battle against the Spanish, tired of the hard work, or even because of diseases brought by the Europeans, also the Spanish arrived with few women in the first instance, they had no more choince that satisfy their sexual needs with native women, in many cases pregnancy occurred, and from there was created a new racial group, the mestizo (mixed European and Amerindian). This historic event reminded me the current situation that many asian men are facing right now in Western societies. Given the low correspondence or low empathy that Asian men have with non-Asian women, will they experience some kind of forced sterilization like the indigenous men in latinamerica? what kind of chances have asian men with women right now?

  17. @ Urb

    Now Moro, read this —-

    Dating WFs in NYC is no “walk in the park”, especially if she’s quite attractive. First of all, many attractive WFs who live in NYC are not like the ones living in other parts of the country. This is because most of them come from privilege backgrounds. Manhattan is an expensive place, and only the most well off Whites choose to live and work here. This being said, these WFs tend to come from upper middle class families, and dating AMs and other minority guys would not even be in their radar. They have their own circle of friends of the same class, and only date White guys of the same calibre. People were talking about Jeremy Lin and how he would give a boost to AMs in the sexual marketplace, perhaps with White women. Ironically not so much in NYC; besides him not being good looking, watching sports is a low class activity to many college educated and high earning Whites in the Big Apple. Asian guys might have a shot with Black women, but definately not much with East Coast Hispanic girls when it comes to non-Asian minority women. Second of all, many Whites dudes in NYC are assholes. But it’s understandable, because in order to have a successful career in NYC, especially in Finance or Law, you have to be a selfish prick to establish your niche. This is the reason why I think Asian guys don’t really thrive in NYC. AMs are usually not dickheads or aggressive in this type of competitive environment, we just like to play by the rules. If you are a good looking Asian dude out in NYC with a fairly attractive WF, be prepared to be shit on. And it’s not only White guys, but Black and Latin guys might give you the shit as well. I wouldn’t even suggest going out with her in an elite establishment, be it a fancy restaurant or a high end bar/club, because that’s just asking for trouble, and people will give you dirty looks to begin with. You would have to be very low key and go to places that makes it so.

    NYC has a very structured hierarchical social caste system. Most Blacks and Hispanics don’t even make a small dent when it comes to prestigious high paying jobs. Most White girls in NYC aren’t going to date a minority guy who is a blue collar or menial job worker, jobs that are usually taken up by Blacks and Hispanics. We also rule out most Asian guys who are more successful but less attractive.

    So Moro, why don’t you welcome all your better looking Asian brothers in NYC who would love to date WFs and Mexicanas to head over to the Golden State? Because I KNOW it would be much easier for them. You guys live under a soft climate with a laid back disposition which makes people psychologically healthier but also lazier.

  18. “You guys live under a soft climate with a laid back disposition which makes people psychologically healthier but also lazier.”

    You do realize, Chr., that bigWOWO is a site moderated by a guy who lives in Portland, run mostly from a laptop produced by a Cupertino-based computer company, hosted at a webhosting company owned by a former Portland guy, and written on WordPress software which was invented by a guy who lives in San Francisco.

  19. Chr wrote: This being said, these WFs tend to come from upper middle class families, and dating AMs and other minority guys would not even be in their radar.

    Now you mention “other” minorities. I thought the whole point of your constant blabbing was saying how AMs have it harder than anyone else including “other” minorities. The tune has changed once again in the song.

    Chr wrote: People were talking about Jeremy Lin and how he would give a boost to AMs in the sexual marketplace, perhaps with White women.

    When you say, “people” are you talking about yourself again? I know no one who said that. That’s the loser way to think, depending on others to help you get a white girl. Why not count on yourself? Jeremy Lin could be Michael Jordan but he still won’t help you get laid dude.

    Chr Wrote: If you are a good looking Asian dude out in NYC with a fairly attractive WF, be prepared to be shit on. And it’s not only White guys, but Black and Latin guys might give you the shit as well. I wouldn’t even suggest going out with her in an elite establishment, be it a fancy restaurant or a high end bar/club, because that’s just asking for trouble, and people will give you dirty looks to begin with. You would have to be very low key and go to places that makes it so.

    Okay, once again, it seems like you are basing this not on experience (since you see yourself as an Asian Troll) and just thinking this might happen. If I’m mistaken, when were you on a real DATE with a gorgeous white girl and got all these dirty looks? Once again, imagining things as usual.

    Chr: So Moro, why don’t you welcome all your better looking Asian brothers in NYC who would love to date WFs and Mexicanas to head over to the Golden State? Because I KNOW it would be much easier for them. You guys live under a soft climate with a laid back disposition which makes people psychologically healthier but also lazier.

    Why should I? Why should I risk a group coming over taking my white women away from me. :P That was a joke btw. I doubt NY is that tough when dating is concerned. Also, you have yet to answer why if it’s such a shit hole for Asian men, why are you still living there?

  20. Movies wrote: Two relatively recent examples I can think of
    being Shanghai Kiss and Warriors Way were that were massive failures.

    I actually got to see “Warrior’s Way” and I’m mad I’ll never get those 2 hours of my life back again.

    Never saw “Shanghai’s Kiss” but didn’t hear anything good about it. Anyone want here think it was good?

    Okay, it would be extremely stupid to think just cause a film is pairing an AM with a WF, that we Asian American Males should automatically support it. Stuff still has to be good. For a movie to be a success, you still have to attract mainstream, just not Asian Guru and his PUA cronies who probably love these films.

  21. I doubt the West Coast will be that much of an improvement since their is a high degree of WM/AF there. I read that somewhere on here. You guys should forget about dating and concentrate on doing something with your lives like going to college or vocational trade. Just accept the way things are and move on.

    @Juan, Someone always get burn in life. You just have to deal with the hand life gives you and make the best of it. Life just isn’t fair. I agree with that.

  22. @Siegfried. Do you say that as a justification for the lack of Asian male characters in the media?, I know life is not fair, but what is your point?,

  23. Juan, You don’t see Black men crying about being treated bad in the media or for that matter Hispanic men. So Asian men should get over it and go have fun with their lives.

  24. @Juan,

    you raise some good points. In fact, the shortage of available females in China is becoming a disturbing demographic trend. This is in part due to the antiquated cultural value they place on having males. The PRC may regret the day they allowed so many AF’s to be adopted. And I see what you’re getting at too….I’ve traveled and worked in Latin America as well, so I’m well aware of the caste system and skin color. Darker skinned or Afro-Colombians are treated like shit. Same thing among Afro-Carribeans, I saw it in the Dominican Republic. In addition, I don’t think it’s so much a Hollywood agenda about the AF’s as it is against the AMs. We are simply the new invisble men but hopefully it’s changing quicker than we know.

    @Siggy, you’re wrong …for years Hollywood had horrible images of African Americans. They were always depicted as thugs, pimps, criminals. To some extent, they still are, but there have been greater positive images of them in the recent past.

    And you’re also missing a point about the article. The portrayal of the AF with WM is a subtle message about societal acceptance by the predominant culture, ie, white, of AFs. The imbalance and the near invisibility of AM’s in a positive light indicates that AM’s are NOT accepted as the norm. The perceptions of AM’s are NOT normalized the way it is for AF’s. To a large extent, we are still seen as being something foreign, and not readily given access to the broader society. And it’s easy for you to say get over it, just have fun…that’s what white privilege is. You don’t see or understand the effects of not being accepted or being marginalized because it doesn’t affect you at all.

    And while AF’s seem to have a greater acceptance, they have their own issues with creepy guys suffering with yellow fever and constantly being sexualized and fetishized.

  25. Rosa Parks didn’t “accept the way things were and had fun.” I’m sure Siggy probably would have preferred it that way, too… but anyway change is rooted in activism, and the privileged group is always the one to call ‘em a bunch of whiners.

  26. @Siegfried “Juan, You don’t see Black men crying about being treated bad in the media or for that matter Hispanic men.”………that’s not true !!!, black (non hispanic) and latino (mestizo) men have more representation in media nowdays, some of them are portrayed through positive roles, in other cases don’t, so for good or bad, black and latino men have at least one recurrent representation in media, however in past decades people from minority groups were demanding some places in american media, in fact few months ago there was a case of a black man who started a legal process against “The Bachelorette” and “The Bachelor” for the non-presence of black men in the show http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/04/17/bachelor -racism-lawsuit /

    My point is not about “being treated bad in the media”, its about the lack of representation of certain group of men (asians) in TV. movies, or publicity. It’s important have fun and there are also men (mainly asians) who take this so far, but your Laissez faire attitude doesn’t help, why is acceptable to show an asian woman with a non asian man (primarily white) on camera?, and why is the asian man almost invisible for the shows? don’t tell me that there is nothing wrong and we have to chill out and have fun with our lives; it’s clear that something is weird.
    I clarify that I’m neither for nor against the representation of Asians (men and women) in media, I just want to emphasize that television , film and advertising, operates selectively and have some intentionality when we are talking about AFs and AMs. Normally white people don’t care about such things, but that is obvious since they are the mediatic and cultural standard of Western society, I will not see a white man complaining about this

    @Mojo Rider…man, what a coincidence !!!!!, I’m also afro-colombian and I live in Colombia too, and yes, many members of my collectivity experience hard times in their daily life, but not only black latinos live like that, this situation also goes for indigenous, peasants, and poor people in general, obviously latinamerica and Colombia in particular still have the shadow of the colonial era

  27. “but anyway change is rooted in activism, and the privileged group is always the one to call ‘em a bunch of whiners.”………..you took the words of my mouth @cdawg

  28. This is not about Civil Rights like Rosa Parks. I voted for Obama 4 years ago. Although I won’t this time around. This is about a war for the hearts and minds of Asian Women.
    @Chr I don’t know why you think a beautiful White Women is going to help you. You will not stand a chance. Try dating a cute girl with glasses. Hot women are shallow. They are conceited as well. If that’s what you ate looking for, good luck.

  29. To @Siegfried, just to finish man, I know what you mean with “get over it and go have fun with their lives.”, in this world there are more difficult situations and this case is just a joke compared with real suffering, but this media situation is really influential and it’s not so easy to avoid it dude, probably people who belong to privileged groups have more facility to downplay this issue, other people don’t

  30. Asians are doing great in America. They are making wages comparable with Whites. This is from the census report. I think. So I don’t see the problem. You can’t have everything.

  31. “So I don’t see the problem. You can’t have everything.”……..you miss the point dude, first of all this is not about economics or educational affairs, is about the normalization of AF/WM couples in media (I’m not saying if that is right or wrong), plus the invisibility of asian couples (or at least non nerdy/ asexual asian men) on camera

  32. @Siegfried, It’s not rocket science dude……how many asian women do you see on media dating white men? many, right?…how many asian males do you see at least performing some role? few, right?

  33. “War for the hearts and minds of Asian women”?! That sounds pretty major to me. On the one hand, Siggy, you say we Asian guys are so bad to want to “control” “our” women. On the other hand, you’re telling us to suck it up and allow White guys to “enjoy the spoils of war.” I see. So it’s OK for you guys to control them, but not us. The wars were a long time ago, peace has been made, and Asia is in fact on the rise. What do you think goes through their minds, “Oh my goddd they bombed us in ’45. SO SEXY!!” ?

  34. The thing that always squicks me out about these malicious YT Asiaphile creepers who hate on Asian dudes is how they rationalize their own offspring, in particular their male offspring. If Sigfried manages to impregnate some Asian gooberette and has a son that looks full Asian and who can’t hide in the Keanu Reeves white boy closet, is he gonna tell him to “enjoy” his involuntarily asexual existence of wage slavery? What kind of man wouldn’t want the best for his own boy? There’s some serious anetbellum tragic mulatto bullshit going on. I can say without exception any whitedude with an AF who won’t support AMs is an absolute shit lord.

  35. “Asians are doing great in America. They are making wages comparable with Whites. This is from the census report. I think. So I don’t see the problem.”

    You don’t see a problem? Are you nuts? Asians need to be making more, much more than Whites in America. Thats when we stop.

  36. A white dude that follows new world religion, believes in reincarnation, votes for Obama (because we live in post-racial color-blind society) but not next time. I get a picture of a dim witted hippie who is a hipster racist. I wonder who that is?

  37. Juan wrote:

    “man, what a coincidence !!!!!, I’m also afro-colombian and I live in Colombia too, and yes, many members of my collectivity experience hard times in their daily life, but not only black latinos live like that, this situation also goes for indigenous, peasants, and poor people in general, obviously latinamerica and Colombia in particular still have the shadow of the colonial era”

    Very cool! I worked in Bogota for a little bit, never made it to Barranquilla or Cali. Do you remember not too long ago the big controversy of some magazine cover which showed wealthy white Colombians and in the background the servants were Afro-Colombians? It just reinforced the notion that the indigenous and darker skinned Colombians were to be subservient to the white Colombians. It’s sad, really, but one hopes that Colombian society will slowly evolve. We all need to.

    And the campesinos are still having to fight to retain land rights. The question becomes for them, does anyone care? You can become so marginalized that the majority can do anything and no one in society will care. It’s not that bad for Asian males in the US compared to campesinos and other indigenous peoples who are getting murdered by big corporate interests, the FARC, militia groups, but I understand your point about agendas.

  38. Yes, Mojo I remember that, I’m from Medellín (one of the whitest cities of my country) but my parents are from the pacific colombian coast, that area is mainly inhabited by afro-colombians. The controversy in the magazine was a pity, but the “positive”answer was also a shame, a well-known colombian magazine for men decided to show some famous black colombian female models NAKED and two white/mestizo servants in the background. I think it wasn’t an smart move because the situation of black women in western countries was always asociated with servitude and sexuality, the result of revenge was innocuous

    http://www.elcomercio.com/mundo/Soho-publica-polemica-portada-modelos-Colombia-afrocolombiana_0_662933758.html

  39. Moroboshi,

    We don’t go out of our way to observe how we’re treated. It is what’s actually happening. Let’s not get into the whole gaslight argument (hat tip to Byron) and dismiss someone’s observations and experiences.

    My girlfriend has noticed a significant uptick in the amount of looks she gets when we started dating but I do want to point out that it’s not always malicious.

    Chr,

    I’m not sure what you’re trying to press but I know full well the dating issues Asian guys have. Like I said before, we have a more difficult time but it’s not as bad as people make it out to be. In fact, I’ve noticed that many Asian guys have learned to use their Asian-ness to their benefit.

    You cite that non-Asian women automatically shun Asian men. That’s also not true. There is also a lot of miscommunication. For example, I’ve heard so many non-Asian women say that they’re attracted to Asian guys but they figure they’re never interested because they always seem to be with Asian women. Thus, they don’t bother and automatically write you off as someone who’s not interested. I’ve heard it all; Asian guys clam up when I talk to them, they don’t engage them in conversation, etc. Pretty ironic because Asian guys don’t bother because they don’t think non-Asian women are ever interested.

    This is one of the reasons why I believe Asian men dating outside their race actually helps. When non-Asian women see more Asian guys dating interracially, they’re more likely to press forward.

    Meg was embarrassed when she told me that all her white friends would date Asian guys but they want a “white guy in a Asian guy’s body.” In essence, the Asian-ness is actually something special but isn’t so Asian where she finds herself involved with someone who’s totally foreign. Read: Whitewashed

    That happens to fit me to a degree. Sure, I can speak Chinese and know my way around Asia but I can also hang out at her family’s BBQ dinner while gabbing about football in sweatpants.

  40. Urban wrote: My girlfriend has noticed a significant uptick in the amount of looks she gets when we started dating but I do want to point out that it’s not always malicious.

    That’s my point, it isn’t mostly malicious as Chr said. Also, you can be any race including white and anytime you have a hot girl on your arm, guys are going to stare with envy. It isn’t just about being an Asian guy with a white girl.

    I still don’t agree how it would help AM with AFs if AMs went out and interracially dated more. I believe it really depends on the WF you are dating. Just like w BMs, who I’ve seen with some wilder beasts of white women.
    It’s sad when all minorities will date down, uglier just to prance around proud they are dating someone white, males and females included. I can accept AMs wanting to only date WFs, that’s their choice although I think it’s ridiculous. I don’t see how this helps AMs woo AFs at all.

    I hate to say it Urban but your post sounds like stealth marketing for Asian PUA. “White women love us and I can show you how to get them.” And Asian guru has nothing but a bunch of pictures and maybe a bottle of Pheromones to sell you.

  41. I think I remember that I was also one of the guys who strongly recommended Asian men not limit themselves to dating Asian women back in the day, and I still do so even now. Sure it’s great if you can click with an Asian woman…. and the guy who will cling on the great white whale Moby Dick just to feel proud about himself must be truly pathetic and unfit for life.

    But the idea that a girl will be right for you just because she is Asian is wrong on many levels. The idea that you can date only Asian essentially retards a person’s growth not just his choices. What I agree with Moroboshi on is that the idea that another race of woman is better or superior or is a symbol is essentially stupid.

  42. I’m sorry; I missed the part where me opening up and sharing my personal life and dating experiences amounts to a pitch about some PUA program.

    If you’re just going to warp my experiences into something that just fits your own argument, it leaves me little reason to share, correct?

    Again, the both of us have noticed that we receive our fair amount of stares but she noticed that it has increased dramatically when we started dating. I’m going by what she tells me. She’s also said that guys have hit on her from time to time when I leave her alone for a few moments. So, yes, the subtle hostility is indeed there but it’s not as dramatically game breaking as Chr states.

    Unless someone can change my mind based on a purely social aspect, I think when Asian men date interracially, it helps them with dating overall.

    1. Not everyone is crowded on the same side on the trade: IE: Asian men undermining other Asian men when it comes to looking for women. Whenever a huge majority of people crowd on one side, a bubble forms and eventually bursts.

    2. Social Miscommunication: Many non-Asian women who are interested in Asian men believe they [Asian men] aren’t interested because they’re always with Asian women. Also, many Asian men feel that non-Asian women can’t possibly find them attractive so they don’t bother. This makes the rift grow. If Asian guys are seen with more non-Asian women, other non-Asian women will think “hey, Asian guys are interested in dating out” and would be more aggressive and receptive. Asian men will think “hey, non-Asian women do find Asian guys attractive.”

    Case in point, last week, I was constantly flirting with a hot Jewish co-worker. As I was about to leave, she says with a smile “were you just flirting with me?” “Very much so.” She just had a glowing smile and said “Wow, that’s weird.” “Weird?” “Sorry, wrong choice of words. It felt different. Great. I’ve never seen Asian guys flirt with white girls before.”

    3. Pack Animals: Human beings have basic animal instincts which reflect around social standing. I honestly feel that if more Asian women see Asian men dating out, they’ll rush back to defend their “possessions.” At this point in time, they know Asian men won’t stray which gives them an severe imbalance of power. Lastly, and the more racially controversial one, is that white women are viewed as the “leaders” of gender. If more and more white women are seen with Asian men, it causes Asian and non-Asian women alike to think.

    Mind you, this does not always involve race. Another personal story, my cousin is dating a white girl in college. He grew up playing sports and he always ends up dating the cheerleading party girl type. Now, his girlfriend is the alpha of her group. When she dated my cousin, the other girls also started getting really interested in Asian guys. Now, three out of her five closest friends are involved with Asian guys. In fact, his girlfriend babysits a 8 year old girl as a part time job. Now, this little girl goes around saying that loves Chinese boys.

  43. Again, I want to stress that chasing women based purely on race is unfair for everyone involved. My main point being that Asian men have to get off the reservation and soon. Even aggressively so.

    So far, almost all the comments, tweets, conversations, etc about Asian guys being cute/hot/handsome that I’ve heard have mostly come from non-Asian women.

  44. “I still don’t agree how it would help AM with AFs if AMs went out and interracially dated more. I believe it really depends on the WF you are dating. Just like w BMs, who I’ve seen with some wilder beasts of white women”.

    AMs are seen as losers in IR dating world. In many multiracial social gatherings, they are also seen as losers who can’t seem to socialize with non-Asian women. BMs are lot more aggressive and confident in these situations, and do a lot better.

    But then can you blame them? Given the fact, that most Asian men are physically unattractive to non-Asian women, it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy. Non-Asian women perceive BMs more attractively than AMs.

  45. @ Urb

    I’ve seen quite a number of AMs being given the cold shoulder by WFs at social events and in eating establishments. This alone tells a lot about the IR dynamics between AMs and WFs. Never mind Black women who are less sought after, because we know BFs are generally more receptive of AMs and would give them the time of the day much more than WFs.

    I myself was personally given a rude tone over the phone by a WF because of my last name. This was when I was applying for a job. She repeatedly ask what was my last name and hung up with a loud thump.

  46. Urban wrote: If you’re just going to warp my experiences into something that just fits your own argument, it leaves me little reason to share, correct?

    Didn’t mean it that way, just that one of the things Asian PUA says a lot to sell his camps is the exact same thing you are saying about WF. It just feels like there is some weird obsession with WFs that PUAs have that is as bad as any of the rice chasers people complain about.

    Chr wrote:
    But then can you blame them? Given the fact, that most Asian men are physically unattractive to non-Asian women, it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy. Non-Asian women perceive BMs more attractively than AMs.

    Uh oh. I see the mental facility is letting Chr use the internet once again due to good behavior.

  47. Moroboshi, fair enough. However, can you disprove any of those points I made? Additionally, I know a lot of Asian men will be emotionally and psychologically damaged by what’s going and being able to date white women is the holy grail of solutions.

    The difference between my points and those PUA courses is that I am pointing out the problem (Step 1) and what results from it (Step 2). The PUA guys are simply capitalizing on it (Step 3). So, if you want to stop step 3, you’ll have to address step 1.

    Chr, I’m not sure what it is you’re trying to address. Do you have a solution? Or are you simply pointing out that Asian men should roll over and die?

    I already agreed with you that Asian men have a more difficult time. What else are you attempting to add to the conversation?

  48. To avoid any misunderstanding, it should read “….being able to date white women seems like the holy grail of solutions.” I am not advocating that it is.

  49. Urbs wrote:

    “Chr, I’m not sure what it is you’re trying to address. Do you have a solution? Or are you simply pointing out that Asian men should roll over and die?”

    HAHA! This has been my exact same question, only I wasn’t able to phrase it as such!

  50. I think we must remember that in most Western nations in general, and in the USA in particular, the basis for all society has been a long-standing extreme favoritism for Whites with discrimination toward non-Whites. That is what “The System” is. It’s taken a long time, but today—at least legislatively—the playing field has clearly become much more level. However, “The System” still exists because the social inertia left over from past centuries of favoritism/discrimination still pervades society in many ways. The idea that White people are superior to non-Whites is still an underlying notion, even when people aren’t saying it out loud.

    So, as a non-White, how does one fight or change “The System?”

    I think, that clearly you must address the very basis of it, and that is to work strongly AGAINST White-favoritism. And that cannot be done by favoring Whites yourself in an attempt to become more acceptable. Now, there is certainly nothing inherently wrong with dating or marrying a White woman. One of the effects of racial progress and equality is that racial divisions will be softened, and that people will find love and attraction within other cultures/ethnicities. But these relationships should NEVER be seen as some kind if racial self-improvement, on any level. Dating someone of another race has nothing to do with image improvement. As I have said before, for every point that you think you are making by showing yourself to be acceptable to Whites and others, by virtue of the fact that a random White girl allowed you to date her, you are losing even more points by reinforcing the universal White-preference that “The System” is based on. It is a net gain of zero or worse.

    There are other dangers to consider as well. Yes, it is possible to simply meet someone White and become attracted to them for completely innocuous reasons. But you really have to ask yourself some hard questions if you do.

    1) Do you feel that you are gaining some kind of social advantage because you’re dating a White person, and is that, in fact, PART of the attraction?

    2) If you look into your dating history, has it been a long history of chasing or strongly favoring White partners? If so you may be “date racist.”

    3) Does your propensity for dating White people also just happen to coincide with a mistrust, dislike, or disdain for your own culture and the shortcomings of people who generally look like you?

    If so, you have to stop and realize that you have a racial inferiority problem that you are probably trying to cover up under the banner of “racial improvement through dating White people.”

  51. Urbs wrote:

    “Chr, I’m not sure what it is you’re trying to address. Do you have a solution? Or are you simply pointing out that Asian men should roll over and die?”

    HAHA! This has been my exact same question, only I wasn’t able to phrase it as such!

    Byron has said before that it’s better to have no solution than to have hapless Asian guys resort to PUA. Again, most AMs who go into PUA are trying to score WFs. This being said, the ugly AM image problem isn’t going away anytime soon. There are just too many AMs that are perceived negatively by non-Asian women, and much of it comes from the physical attractiveness issue. This isn’t a problem, if AMs just stick with their own women and suck it up when it comes to the IR dating disparity. You and I agree that a boost in social value will happen if more AMs date WFs, and this in turn will make AFs and non-Asian women take notice and find us more desirable. But how will AMs be successful with non-AFs, if many of them don’t like the average AM in the first place?

    My take is that Asian Men for the most part, have no belonging in the multicultural “fabric” of America. You see it in the media, and you also see it in real life social gatherings. Now whose fault is this? Besides the media, I think it’s a combination of several factors, most importantly, the physical attractiveness issue and AMs not taking an aggressive stand in promoting themselves. Nobody automatically hands you anything on a platter, especially if you’re an Asian dude.

  52. @ King

    “If so, you have to stop and realize that you have a racial inferiority problem that you are probably trying to cover up under the banner of “racial improvement through dating White people.”

    I’m not sure about this!

    If AMs dating White women becomes a trend like that with Black Men, we can see a boost in social value. This in turn will not only make Asian men more attractive in the eyes of White women, but all women in general. But of course, we would say “dream on”.

  53. [i]”You and I agree that a boost in social value will happen if more AMs date WFs, and this in turn will make AFs and non-Asian women take notice and find us more desirable. But how will AMs be successful with non-AFs, if many of them don’t like the average AM in the first place? [/i]

    If your average AM is a warcraft nerd, who hangs in an all asian posse, doesn’t approach then he won’t be successful.

    I think AMs hold themselves back a lot. That said I believe it’s changing. I see a lot more young aggressive asian guys approaching and with women of other races. There maybe a fair amount of WFs who are just not physically to AM. however, I think a large amount are open to us, some of which may not know it yet.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO_A7M0pesg

    These 3 guys are from simple pickup. They’re based in socal and have made numerous videos picking up women mostly non asian. These 3 guys are hapa, vietnamese and indian. None of which are particularly good looking. Race is not nearly as large an obstacle as some might assume.

    Many of these guy’s videos are made in socal, the land of hollywood and AM stereotypes.

  54. I agree with King, dating WFs as a way to show AMs are just as good as WMs buys into the idea that Caucasians are superior. Before AMs can ever get anywhere, they need to see themselves as equals. Who gives a crap about AFs who only want to date WMs? Those people are mentally fucked in the head anyways and I would never want to associate with them in the first place.

    The AMs I know who only date WFs have a bit of self hate in them no matter what they want you to believe.

    Here’s my solution that no one listens to. Learn to be sociable. Find hobbies that interest you. Physical activities are great. Am what I saying a quick fix like PUA? Will it take a huge amount of dedication and maybe years to master? Sure but what I say is real and costs nothing. PUA like the diet industry offers quick solutions that don’t amount too anything. People don’t want to work for anything. There’s no magic pill out there.

    And Asianguy, just cause some PUA puts some video of himself talking to a girl means absolutely nothing. Girls for the most part will talk or take pictures with guys. Even give their numbers out. Whether they’ll go on a date with you or hook up with you, that’s an entirely different animal. I have yet to see any PUA that is legit and not a bunch of horse hockey trying to sell a product. The only people PUAs are good with are guys who aren’t good w Women as King said, the inexperienced, picky, gullible and desperate.

  55. A few questions in this for Chr..

    As stated previously Asian girls are largely seen as easy by large groups of non-Asian males.

    I have a question in all this, wf who date bm are still largely perceived as the more unattractive and/or overweight of their group with daddy issues, obviously this applies to the sort of bm/wf couples that are seen on the street rather than celeb couples.

    Part of the appeal of wf to non-White males I think is that the attractive ones are supposedly hard to get. If they were en masse to become responsive to non-White males particularly AM the first thought would be that white females as a group would decrease in value? I can imagine responses such as “even asian guys can get a white chick” etc.

    This would surely have a dramatic effect on the dating landscape. What are your thoughts

  56. While far from an answer as usual, Chr’s “AMs have no place in America’s multicultural ‘fabric’” line is a white nationalist dog whistle. I don’t know what Byron sees in keeping this idiot around but it’s time to send this guy on his way.

  57. “I have a question in all this, wf who date bm are still largely perceived as the more unattractive and/or overweight of their group with daddy issues, obviously this applies to the sort of bm/wf couples that are seen on the street rather than celeb couples”.

    Not in NYC, there are plenty of polished Black men with fairly attractive White women. Where are you seeing these unattractive/overweight White women with Black guys? Maybe in the ghettos and the areas of the South. But in a big metro city like NYC, it’s a different story. The only rare IR couples I see are Asian men with non-AFs. Hispanic men also tend to date their own, but many of them date women who look like Eva Longoria at her prime, regardless of education or income level. I say Asian men get shafted the most, where some of them with Ivy League degrees can’t even get women and have to resort to PUA. It’s fucking laughable to say the least.

    “Part of the appeal of wf to non-White males I think is that the attractive ones are supposedly hard to get. If they were en masse to become responsive to non-White males particularly AM the first thought would be that white females as a group would decrease in value?”

    Foremost, Asian men generally are considered to be the least physical attractive guys by non-Asian women. So the decrease in value isn’t going to happen anytime soon. Don’t underestimate plain Janes, they would want to be with an attractive Asian guy too, and not want to settle with any Asian doofus. This is the reason why you see fairly average looking White girls with Asian dudes who look better than them.

    “Learn to be sociable. Find hobbies that interest you. Physical activities are great”.

    All in all, much of it is a self fullfilling prophecy, less attractive individuals are generally less confident, less sociable and would not want to socialize much. This definately to applies to many Asian men who avoid White women and multiracial social scenes simply because of their unappealing looks and physique.

    I was at a social function not too long ago at Columbia University. Yes, that infamous institution with their dating experiment that rag about Asian men and their undesirability. There were plenty of fairly attractive White, Black and Hispanic students. Most of the Asian guys there look the short pudgy Gary Watanabe and William Hung types, and many were wearing glasses. Not suprisingly, these guys didn’t socialize that much and left early on.

  58. Well, as far as BM/WF couplings, I think a lot of people don’t take certain things into consideration. One thing, is just seeing any Black guy as ALL Black guys without taking a closer look. In many cases, the kind Black guys who end up matched with unattractive WFs are not all that attractive themselves. If most people took the time to really look, they would notice that you rarely see a handsome, refined, and well-dressed Black guy with a hugely unattractive White girl these days. That kind of BM usually has too many other options. Another point is that Black culture has a tendency to like women a bit fuller than do Whites and Asians. Therefore a woman with these proportions is still quite attractive to many Black guys, but may be seen as “Fat” to Whites and Asians.

    http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb237/diddyrocca/2380174759_83edbcff43.jpg

    And lastly, White guys have long perpetuated the idea far and wide that the only WFs that Black men can get are the ones that WM don’t want, or the girls who are doing it just to get back at their parents. This is an all-too-convenient sour grapes defense mechanism, nothing more.

  59. @ King

    Bloggers here say I offer no solution for the problems I keep drumming about.

    You were saying minorities ought to stop putting Whites on a pedestal. If we bring back segregation of the races and abandon the idea of a melting pot America, perhaps things would be better. Every racial group could form their own self sufficient communities like the Amish, and we wouldn’t have problems like affirmative action, discrimination, and the IR dating disparity. At the moment, the integration of races in America isn’t working out so well.

    And for those unattractive and unwanted Asian guys, they could form their secret bachelor societies once again, reminiscent of Asian American history, and receive support from each other.

  60. On today’s episode of bigWOWO… Chr.. comes out as an HDBer!

    It doesn’t matter what scenario it is, it could be all races are separated or all races are living amongst each other. Either way, Chr won’t be getting laid. I breath a sigh of relief as I know Chr will not be creating any offspring any time soon.

    I’m not surprised Chr believes in HBD. All those guys who whine all the time look into stupid shit like HBD or PUA cause they feel there are forces working against them and need some sort of reasoning why their life is so miserable. In the end, they are too lazy to change and the only thing they can do is go anonymously on blogs and whine about shit all day long.

  61. Chr

    Sorry for being being too optimistic, but I thought that you know, different races don’t have to be banging each other in order to get along.

  62. Chr has lost it. The AF has destoryed his mind. Some one take away his computer before he joins the kkk or something. He

  63. You guys criticize me that I don’t have a solution to the AM problems that I whine about. Well, that’s my answer to the dating woes and invisible hapless existence of a lot of the AMs out there. They would be happier if they just stayed in their own communities and stick with their own. Multiracial America generally isn’t inclusive of the AM, unless he’s a good looking dude and isn’t one of those stereotypical short pedomorphic or tall lanky guys who offer a few good laughs.

    Other than that, there are no solutions as Bryon has said, or these guys can resort to PUA/APB to be empowered.

  64. “Sorry for being being too optimistic, but I thought that you know, different races don’t have to be banging each other in order to get along”.

    No, but AMs wouldn’t like it, if they were around other guys who are having fun with AFs and they’re being ignored by most women. And this seem to be the case at the moment when many of them are removed from their communities, AMs are invisible in Multiracial America. I know what you guys are thinking, we’re doing fine with AFs. Well, that’s why AMs should stick with their own and stay in their enclaves like the Amish who form self sufficient communties.

  65. LMAO

    The problem is, Chr, you can’t speak for Asian men. Your experiences, what you see, are so wildly divergent from them, don’t even pretend that you are an authority.

    You can speak only for YOURSELF, Chr. Your SELF.

    You can speak only for mentally ill, obsessive, socially outcast men who have never had a girlfriend in his life, with a penchant for repeating ad nauseum all the UGLY thoughts and feelings he harbors inside.

    I know you will still be here, two years later, still saying the same things, starting from the beginning and going on the round about again with your step ladder.

    I will let you in on a little secret:

    Everybody already knows that you write what you write because in actual fact you hate YOURSELF.

  66. Byron, this guy apologises and plays limp a lot but then he goes right back to doing the exact same thing you asked him not to or called him out on.

    You know what he’s doing, of course. He’s testing your boundaries. And he’s violating them.

    Like the HBD pests from before, he will divert and hijack every topic on your blog to his agenda.

    On other places, people like these will post the most outrageous, ugly things in order to get reactions from people. These range from racist comments, to photographs of gore, of murders, essentially anything they are allowed to get away with. Their minds have been badly damaged. They think that such acts are some kind of liberation, some kind of vindication, but most importantly, such acts help make them feel powerful.

    Chr is doing the same thing here. He is doing what he thinks he can get away with. Any consideration you give him is not considered nobility, it is considered a weakness.

    Deal with this character decisively.

  67. Rag calls me a boring numbers technician presumably because I’m an accountant and I bring up these stat tests like the Columbia Dating experiment. Now he calls me a HBD apologist because I believe in racial segregation.

    Listen, can’t you fucking lighten up with a dose of controversy. Who’s the boring guy here? Is it not true that Asian men have a harder time dating non-Asian women in general? If it wasn’t the case, we wouldn’t have this discussion. Then you have guys like Moro who will chime in and say “well, not me”. The fact of the matter is, Asian men are seen as invisible in America, which affects many areas of their life, and we could make a safe assumption that many of them wish others would see the light of day on it. I’m just bring my take of the problem. Asian men are usually not as attractive as other men. That’s how America sees it, and that’s how a growing number of acculturated Asian women see it. At the end of the day, less attractive people get less perks in life. And most of all, they get unnoticed when it counts.

  68. @Chr,

    “Asian men are usually not as attractive as other men.”

    You know that beauty is subjective. You might personally find Whites more attractive, and there is nothing wrong in that. Here is a picture of how Whites are perceived by Asians http://seancrane.com/2011/11/male-proboscis-monkey/

    What not to like about a big red nose and big belly, right? And body hair too.

  69. “Stealth marketing for APB.”

    The more I read into this, the more ridiculous I think this claim gets. Raguel, are you a stealth HBD supporter? Can you prove that you’re not?

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