7 killed in Oakland shooting

See story here.

Jordan tells CBS News the suspect has told investigators he was expelled from the small, private university only a couple months ago, and his anger over that expulsion led him to return to the school on Monday with a loaded gun.

According to Jordan, Goh says he came back to the Oikos campus with the intention of shooting the school administrator, but when he couldn’t find that individual, he opened fire essentially at anyone else he could find. Goh is a South Korean national.

Very sad news.

There weren’t random school shootings like this during the 70′s, when the gun laws (I think) were more or less the same. I’m wondering what the solution is. Stricter gun control laws ought to be part of the solution. I know people say that people being able to arm themselves could be part of the solution, i.e. if more people had guns, more people might be able to fight back against a One L. Goh or Seung-Hui Cho or Columbine duo, but think about it: how many sane people carry guns to school, even if they have concealed weapons permits?

It looks like the school catered mostly to Koreans and Korean Americans, and the suspect was a nursing student.

42 thoughts on “7 killed in Oakland shooting

  1. If you look at the data during the 70s and 80s, you’ll find a fair share of school/random shootings back then. Modern media lets you know quicker and immediate nowadays. As for arming more people with guns I’m going to disagree with that. I think people who support that are carrying a fantasy of sorts. Let’s take police officers for instance. We can agree that modern city police officers are highly trained. And we can agree that they occasionally shoot innocent people. If individuals with such high caliber of training can accidentally shoot people, what makes us think your gun enthusiast neighbor could do any better?

  2. Has anything been written about the psychology of these mass murderers and what motivates them? In China, they use meat cleavers and knives to hack up children in nurseries and kindergartens.

  3. http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

    ^ Has anybody read this before? What do you think?

    In my opinion the crunching of raw numbers as it relates to total homicides and gun ownership rates does not help in distinguishing the types of murders that occur with firearms. I only browsed through it a little bit so far but I think it would be helpful if some distinction is made e.g. between organised crime homicides, domestic murder, mass murder etc.

  4. bigWOWO – neither stricter guns or arming citizens will solve the problem. Maybe it’s because of the “gun culture” in this side of the world. The vast majority of the world has stricter gun laws than that states (countries in Europe – minus Switzerland and most countries in Asia). In countries in Europe like the UK they have strict gun laws but in place of guns knife violence (or just blades in general) are epidemic.
    Switzerland is always used as an example of how guns and people can co-exist in a “good society” but you have to remember that it’s a draft society where all Swiss men have to serve in the military for a number of years. This has been their M.O. since the 1500s (since the country had a neutrality policy).

    For the USA, I feel that education is the best long term solution for gun violence. Why not – in certain areas allow and/or mandate compulsory gun education. How to safely handle one, how to reload, how to clean, disassemble, assemble, how to “not” point a gun at someone. Remember it’s not the gun that kills it’s the person – just like the sword.

  5. @Liquid,

    We can agree that modern city police officers are highly trained.

    I don’t think I can agree with that. Ever heard of “mad cop disease?” Heard of Officer Ramos in Fullerton CA, that was just very recent if your twitter generation short term memory hasn’t distracted you with Hunger Games?

    Was that rhetorical?

    When you have a badge and a power trip and the law states you can shoot people without impunity when you “feel threatened” then it’s pretty much fascism isn’t it?

  6. Drew and Raguel are spot on: they just use other weapons in other societies instead of guns. China even had a few cases where farmers were PO-ed and made their own fertilizer bombs.

    I believe it’s social causes that’s the disease rather than just guns that’s the symptom.

    (Sorry if that keyword made your website monitored by the FBI, B. lol But seriously would real terrorists even use those words or would they use coded phrases and ciphers? Are our law enforcement that dumb? That was rhetorical…)

  7. Liquid,

    Check this out (Raguel posted on the thread):

    http://www.bigwowo.com/2009/04/shooting-under-fire/

    I can’t believe the video is still up. It looks like shooting a gun is a perishable skill.

    Drew,

    I have heard of knife violence in places like the UK. But one could make the argument that knife violence might be more containable. Wouldn’t it be harder to kill seven people with a knife than with a gun?

  8. Well, the problem with gun control in America is that there is already too many guns within the continent. Strict gun control would probably only lead to a thriving black market because all these guns that are floating around and in possession, they’re not all going to be turned in. Some of them are going to be kept hidden and others are even going to be hoarded. The more efficient gun control becomes in the USA will mean only criminal elements would be motivated to acquire these easily available weapons.

    I would also make a wild guess and say that gun ownership is vital to the safety of Americans living outside the cities and suburbs in the woods or other sparsely populated areas.

  9. Also… the socio-psychological causes of these mass murders. More and more of these murderers will pop up and they will simply use every means available to them.

    We may have to accept that these mass murders will occur and continue with the same certainty like we view the inevitability of car accidents and plane crashes.

  10. I would agree with closing the “loophole” of freely buying firearms at gun shows.

    We don’t even know how he got his gun. But there has to be licenses; we require constantly updating driving licenses, and the same has to be more so for weapons that only serves to kill or maim.

  11. How much would that help? In a country the size of America which borders Mexico and that is an entrepot to the Caribbeans and other countries, how large a government apparatus would be required to track down and keep tabs on every firearm, sold and unsold, in the country?

    It would certainly create jobs, but I am wondering if instead of creating jobs like this resources could be diverted to where they are really needed. Addressing the problem of urban poor for example, and education to combat the propagation of low level hooliganism and criminality.

    Gun control and disarmament also probably has to take into account the politics and history of the firearms lobby in America. I have heard that its roots go back as far as the aftermath of the civil war.

  12. Dude, that’s kind of prejudiced isn’t it? Plenty of bored rich kids doing all kinds of drugs and crimes too. There were news of rich FOB Chinese kids getting into trouble here in the SGV and getting deported back.

    If they can keep track of automobiles – which I’d bet is more in numbers than handguns – then I’m sure they can create a system to keep track of handguns.

    They can even put RFID and GPS trackers on guns if they really want to, but of course like you say the NRA gun lobby won’t be hearing any of that.

  13. BigWOWO – I haven’t heard of that argument about knife violent better contained. If it was better contained then knife violence won’t be as prevalent as it is in the UK. Note that the UK has the world’s largest system of CCTV cameras on EVERY block (I’ve studied there and I was amazed on how many cameras there were on each street!). The knife – or any blade or sharp object is the weapon of choice for muggers all the way to security guards.

    Taking away guns would just make people improvise. Think about it, us humans have always needed some sort of weapon to defend or fend for ourselves. The knife – of the basic shape – is as old as when we were still hunter-gathers running around in our loincloths. I think it was Raguel would said that if we ban guys there’d be a black market. Take for example in Europe; strict gun laws – but people get along fine mainly because of their society. That doesn’t mean there aren’t problems, it just means they “solve it” in a different way.

    One point I’d like to add to this discussion. Since we’re talking about an Asian-American here, who I’m *assuming* grew up first generation or grew up in a Korean household – there’s probably a personal side to this. Many Asian cultures (Korean included) put emphasis on keeping your feelings to yourself.
    I’ve heard a lot of names for this: “Saving face”, “keeping one’s emotions to oneself”, whatever. While it’s a great concept, often times people who follow this (not just Asians) often feel that they are undeserving, unable, or just don’t think they need professional, neutral help. These types of people out of pride (or whatever the case maybe) don’t seek help and therefore don’t have a balanced, productive, benign way to venting their frustrations, especially when they’re reaching the boiling point.

    That’s why I believe in the mantra “guns don’t kill people, people kill people.”

  14. Damn typos. This is what I meant to say in the first sentence:

    “I haven’t heard of an argument that stated that knife violence is better contained than gun violence.”

  15. Wow…I just noticed a few more typos in my paragraphs. Screw it, you guys know what I mean. If you are confused just let me know.

  16. Drew,

    When I say “more containable,” I mean easier to stop, not less common.

    Think about this: Seung-Hui Cho killed 32 and injured 25 within a short time, maybe 4 hours or less. Would that be possible if he didn’t have access to firearms? If he were armed with only a knife, it’s quite probable he wouldn’t have been able to kill even a single person.

  17. There was a case in Shanghai where some disgruntled kid who was wrongfully harassed and detained by the police went back with a cleaver and killed 8 cops.

    I knew somebody was going to bring up the whole “Asian culture” angle. But if you think about the shooting sprees and this case in particular it’s a very American thing: they feel self-entitled and slighted.

    Just from the news st0ries, most Americans are self-absorbed and have a sense of entitlement and when corporations (even schools are turning into for profits) care more about their bottom line then people then these incidents happen all over the place.

    There was a hair salon shooting a few months back in Long Beach, CA. Is Drew going to blame their “white culture” as the culprit?

  18. Wait…don’t cops have guns? How can one guy with a cleaver kill 8 trained cops with guns?

  19. It’s China; I think only their military has guns. Or probably only the police SWAT units has guns.

  20. Mwei – Haha, I suppose I should blame “white culture”. Those damn crackers – why are they always up our asses?

    …not really. No, I wasn’t thinking about “white culture” when I was mentioning “Asian culture”. I did mention it’s just not “Asian culture” that does this. But I do see your point. I was simply speaking for the shooter on a personal level, not on a cultural level. I suppose I should have made it clear that I wasn’t making a swipe at Asians in general. But I mean, being fired from your job/student position (someone remind me what One Goh’s connection to the school is) is shitty, but I mean going back and killing 7 people execution style and walking casually out is some f*cked up shit.

    As for the self-entitled angle. I wouldn’t call it that – I’d call it by the old fashion term: bat-shit bonkers.

    bigWOWO – easier to stop? mwei’s example is a good one. If someone’s carrying a gun, it’s pretty obvious even if they’re carrying it in hidden carry. A knife? I’d argue you don’t need to be trained in a knife in order to do serious damage to someone with a blade. Overdose in some PCP, meth, adrenaline, steroids, or any other unstable performance enhancing drug – malicious intent is a plus – and *boom*, you got yourself a small hell in a hand basket. Knifes are easier to carry around and easy to obtain and improvise.

  21. mwei,

    No guns? What do Chinese cops use to stop bad guys? Kung fu? Dim mak? Flying guillotine?

    Okay, here’s an article:

    http://opinion.globaltimes.cn/observer/2011-01/611056.html

    It says they have guns, but they keep them locked up in safe boxes unless they know a suspect is armed. Which is outrageous.

    Drew,

    I still can’t see a guy with a knife killing more than a few people at once without being stopped. Think about what the cops did with Cho. They couldn’t move in quite as quickly without jeopardizing their own safety. Now if they knew he only had a knife, they could go right in.

    If a guy is armed with a knife, it’s easier to rush him. It’s easier to throw things at him. It’s easier to run away. It’s easier for police armed with guns to stop him. It’s much harder for him to do a Columbine-style raid attack.

  22. @ Drew:

    BigWowo is absolutely correct regarding the difference between guns and other weapons such as knives.

    Think about that Anders Breivik guy in Norway. There’s no way he would have been able to kill that many people with a knife, a sword, or whatever. A guy with that kind of weapon can be stopped by one or two other people easily enough.
    Another big difference – if someone has a knife, he has to get right up close to inflict damage, so some potential victims will be able to run away. That doesn’t work with a gun, which allows its wielder to pick off victims without putting himself so much in harm’s way.

    The idea that educating more people on how to use guns would reduce gun crime… sorry, I think that is bollocks. Familiarising people with guns just makes them more comfortable with guns, which makes it more likely they will use them one day.

    I’m from Australia where there are very few guns, and there is nowhere near the amount of gun crime as in the US. Stabbings are a problem, sure, as they are everywhere else. But knives will always be available. By taking guns out of the equation, it’s one less easily accessible tool that can be used for killing. Because let’s be honest, knives have lots of purposes but guns are primarily for killing people.

    I will say though that the US has reached saturation point with guns, meaning that restriction of gun ownership is not going to work as well as it would in relatively gun-free societies like Australia and the UK.

  23. The Utoya massacre seems very peculiar to me. The death and injury toll was horrendous, I would have imagined that such numbers would only be possible with an assault rifle fitted out with a drum magazine that doesn’t jam.

    Because the shootings occurred over an extended period of time in an “enclosed” space, a single rifle firing from a concealed position would have taken care of the shooter. Of course, who is to say that this approach would work with more infiltrators?

    In my opinion firearms ownership needs to take into account the current social conditions and how it may change in time. In general casual use and ownership of firearms is a bad idea (hobby shooting, recreational use, ego driven possession etc). People nowadays face more pressures and conflicts with other people than they do with criminal elements. Firearms require discipline and mental conditioning.

  24. It’s good news that we are beginning to see a lot more Asian guys who are sociopaths, at least they are a lot sexier than the over studious bookworm types, who are equally anti-social, yet too tame to get any recognition.

  25. ^ “at least they are a lot sexier than the over studious bookworm types…

    @ Chr, is it normal to feel this way towards men? :D

  26. ^ Yeah, nothing’s “sexier” than some little Columbine-like dweeb who can’t keep his precious little temper, and goes on to shoot innocent and UNARMED students indiscriminate to their age or gender. Ha! How “Pussy” can you get?

  27. The idea probably made Chr spontaneously self-lubricate. Unfortunately since he’s a guy, it probably happened not by physiological processes but with a bottle of lube and a subsequently dirty finger.

  28. There really is no gun control in the US. Anyone (of age) but felons can buy a gun. Its that simple. Hardly control.

    Three simple things need to happen to put in place gun accountability, not control.

    Close the gun show loophole. Buying a gun from a show should be like buying a gun from a store. Background check. Same with private sales.

    If you sell/give a gun to a felon knowingly you become a felon.

    Laws that say you leave a gun out and easily accessable when you are not around you can be charged (this is somewhat the case now).

    Very simple and does not infringe on gun rights. Will this stop gun violence? No, but it will reduce it as felons will find it much harder and costlier to buy a gun.
    Right now even these simple common sense messures are opposed by the NRA leadership and the leadership of groups like it.

  29. I should add to the third point you could be charged if a felon or kid gets a hold of it.

  30. @Chr Everything this guy comments on has to do with the Asian man or the Asian Man’s lack of getting laid. I didn’t think it possible but he found a way to tie this tragedy in that. Weird.

    BTW, are these warning signs?

    Also, Aggro said the same exact thing weeks ago. I think they are the same person. Anyone who posts, “Chr is right” has got to be Chr himself.

  31. Actually all he ever talks about is Asian men not getting any play from WHITE women.

  32. Chr is also always saying that Asian men are ugly. Now the truth is finally out. He just can’t reconcile his homosexual desires for them. :D

  33. @big,

    “Wait…don’t cops have guns? How can one guy with a cleaver kill 8 trained cops with guns”

    ha ha, Chinese cops not only don’t have guns, I don’t even remember they have batons. In my memory, they were riding on bicycles, and suppose to salute to us if they stop us and trying to say something on the street, like the situation that we violate the traffic law, etc.

    After June 4th tragedy in Tian An Man Square, Li Peng, the prime minister at the time said to Kissinger (or some other foreign visitor) that Chinese police do not equipped with rubber bullets or tear gas to deal with that kind of situation, so they had to use deadly force…… We all were angered by his explanation at the time. But in some way, he told the truth. The West are way more “mature” than us in that area.

    Even today, Chinese police men beating by people they suppose to police isn’t that an unusual story. Just a couple of weeks ago, I read in a Chinese web site that a bunch of police men trying to protect a school but were beaten by the mobs who were angry at school officials, the police’s cars were over turned and they had to flee.

  34. Eurasian Sensation – Good points, though I’ll point out I was speaking from a one-on-one, self defense perspective. Usually within a 3 foot range.

  35. ChineseMom:

    I once worked retail and had a supervisor who for whatever reason wasn’t allowed to fire anyone, and one guy in particular just ignored whatever he said. The supervisor said, “This is like being a cop without a gun.” I guess there are lots of those in China. :)

    Drew,

    Sure, but my original point was that fewer guns could prevent mass killings. I don’t doubt that Dan Inosanto could kill me with a knife. Although I’m probably a good forty years younger than him, so if he attacked me today from, say, ten feet, I’ll bet I could outrun him. I wouldn’t be able to do that if he had a gun.

    Great video, and I agree that a knife could be lethal from a short foot range. But at just about any range, a gun is even more lethal. I have a friend who was a knife instructor in the U.S. Marines. There are certain parts of the body where you can get cut and won’t necessarily die. With a gun, there’s no safe place to get shot.

  36. Is it possible that the NRA actually functions to enable covert paramilitary forces and networks within America? A proliferation of firearms could function either as a very credible anti-coup mechanism or an easy mobilisation to escalate to civil war.

  37. Raguel – The 2nd amendment states that:

    “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed” (here’s the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution)

    Now of course, that’s where things get dicey. What IS a militia? If you’re very formal about it, it’s a civilian population that in a short amount of time – say within 24 hours – can form a military force (think Switzerland).
    I think that was the whole point of the NRA, to keep “true” (open to debate) to the 2nd amendment. How true – or how legal – that’s the question…

    BigWOWO – Just my last two cents; in my experience, I’ve learned NEVER to underestimate senior citizens who know how to throw a knife! And/or any senior citizen who have had 40+ years of martial arts training.

  38. The constitution seems so specific about it that it leaves little doubt within my mind as to whether it is legal, so I do wonder what the questions are. 8o

  39. The school that One L. Goh went postal in wasn’t just any ordinary private college.

    Oikos University only had up to 100 students enrolled and was located in some kind of industrial park.

    Beyond that, it sounds like some kind of Christian fundamentalist operation.

    Oikos was founded by Rev. Jongin Kim, who is affiliated with the Praise God Korean Church the president of California Ezra Bible Academy.

    It appears that the school upholds a literal interpretation of the Bible including the actual existence of Adam and Eve, as well as the biblical creation myth. And students are required to adhere to a strict code of behavior including church attendance. The school’s website states:

    “We believe (in) the existence of a personal, malevolent being called Satan who acts as tempter and accuser [...] for whom the place of eternal punishment was prepared, where all who die outside of Christ shall be confined in conscious torment for eternity.”

    http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_20308834/oikos-university-attracts-nursing-music-religion-students

    O-kay.

    There are hella lot of Asian American Christian fundamentalists out there. As a student at Oikos, One L. Goh must have been one.

    Also, Goh’s brother, US Army Sgt. Su Wan Ko, was a highly decorated US military “war hero” in Iraq, whom the underachieving Goh apparently was trying to live up to.

    And in an unintentionally revealing way, Goh did exactly that.

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