bigWOWO rating: Asian American Bronze
Donnie Yen, who was educated partly in the U.S., starred in this epic movie about Wing Chun grandmaster Yip Man.
It’s got everything one would want in a kung fu flick–awesome fight scenes, great character development, occasional humorous moments, an attractive female costar. There are interesting side stories, such as the story with the restauranteur and his estranged brother, and the envious kung fu teacher and his rivalry with Yip. Aside from the fight scenes, the best thing about this movie was the historical context, which depicted the styles and views of the Chinese during the Japanese occupation. It’s a great onscreen depiction of Asian American talent and Chinese spirit. It’s a great movie. If this review were purely on cinemetography, action, or whatever else, this would have smashed all categories of criteria.
That said…there are major problems with historical accuracy, which in the end brought this movie down to bronze. Check out the wikipedia entry which quotes film4 on the movie’s historical accuracy:
Film4′s review detailed the departures from history: “The real Ip Man was never, despite the film’s assertions to the contrary, forced from bourgeois idleness into work by the hardships of the Second Sino-Japanese War, nor was he ever employed as a coolie in a colliery – rather he chose of his own accord to work as a policeman (a profession lightly ridiculed within the film) before the Japanese invasion, and he continued in this line for several years after the war until Communist disapproval of his wealth and political affiliations drove him into voluntary exile in Hong Kong (an inconvenient truth that the film elides as tactfully as Ip Man mitigates the impact of his own victories). While, during the war, Ip Man did indeed refuse to teach his martial arts to the military police of the occupying Japanese – a decision which eventually forced him to flee Foshan – he certainly never had, let alone won, a duel with a Japanese general.”[27]
See the full film4.com review here; I concur wholeheartedly. You see the problem? The main argument for Ip’s character was that he rolled up his sleeves and worked to protect his family from poverty; he never did this. The movie shows him leaving China because the Japanese were targeting him; he really left because the Chinese Communists thought he was too rich. And the culmination of the movie is the big public fight with the Japanese general; he didn’t win such a big fight because it never happened. When you see the final outcome (which I won’t reveal), it makes him even look more heroic, which I thought was insulting–why can’t Yip’s real-life heroism stand on its own?
I’ll be honest–I usually don’t like movies like this because writers almsot always overstate a person’s importance. In Ali, for example, the writers make Malcolm X look like a wimp who hangs on Muhammed Ali’s every word (I like Muhammed Ali and have a world of respect for his brains and guts, and I think he was in a class by himself, but Malcolm was no kiss up.) This was a whole new level of crazy, like Maxine Hong Kingston woman-and-slave-are-the-same-word-in-Chinese crazy. They gave Yip Man all kinds of storylines that never took place. He was a very different person from what was in the film. The film4.com review says it well:
The problem, though, is with the story. In transforming a humble real-life martial artist into the type of the reluctant hero (and nationalist icon), screenwriter Edmond Wong has turned his subject not only into something that he was not, but also into an overfamiliar kung fu movie cliche.
Why didn’t they tell his real story? I can understand taking some license when depicting an icon, but this was way over the top. It felt like lying (and if you think about it, it was). So few people know about this great man, so why not show his real story?
I’d recommend seeing this movie for the action and characters. But do yourself and the historical Yip Man a favor, and separate fact from fiction by reading up on his extraordinary life. As the film4 review says, hopefully Wong Kar Wai will do it better.
Related posts:
I like the movie too, but yeah, there’s some historical problems. I wonder if the “duel with the Japanese general” was included as a ripoff/ homage to the classic Jet Li flick “Fist of Legend” when the protagonist Chen Zhen must fight General Fujita:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w1NLFBHBRw
(skip to 1 minute)
Historically accurate?
Probably not.
Epic?
YES.
i ended up hating the movie for its historical inaccuracies and cliches as well.
I really look forward to the WKW version, with my fav actor Tony Leung (who apparently studied wing chun 4hrs per day for a year for the role), but it’s stuck in developement hell last time i checked
where was all this vitriol over the last shamurai?
Tom Cruise is a the BESTEST samurai ever!!!
Gar,
You see, that makes at least some sense. Chen Zhen is fictional. This is kinda like saying Edgar Allan Poe beat up a pro-wrestler!
Justin,
Wow! 4 hours a day! Sheesh, that movie better come out. People were telling me really great things about the Donnie Yen version, but I don’t know if they know about this, um, exaggerated life history in the movie.
I wonder what the Chinese would think about this. I don’t think they have access to the web to really discuss this. I was angrier this morning when I woke up. It’s extremely revisionist, given that most people aren’t familiar with Yip.
Oh, and Ip Man 2: dude, that last scene was sooo freaking predictable. I just knew they weren’t going to go through the whole movie without jumping on that bandwagon.
crazy mm’er:
“where was all this vitriol over the last shamurai?”
bigWOWO started in September of ’08. The 44s started in May/April of ’04. The Last Samurai came out in ’03. So the vitriol should have been on minoritymilitant.com since that was the only site representing back then (maybe asianguy.com, but that site is no longer around). You probably should’ve seen it on mm.com.
The historical revisionism found in this film is outrageous!
I sure am glad that America’s movie industry would (cough) never ever do such a thing.
Operation Hollywood
http://motherjones.com/politics/2004/09/operation-hollywood
The Pentagon’s media spinners
http://richardbrenneman.wordpress.com/2010/03/04/the-pentagon%E2%80%99s-media-spinners/
Collateral Brain Damage?
The Hollywood Propaganda Ministry
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/linkscopy/CBD.html
@Jaehwan
They’ve also left out the unconfirmed rumors that Ip Man was a KMT official, which many thinks is the real reason that he fled from the communists to Macau, then Hong Kong. There’s an obvious plot to please the mainland chinese audience, so maybe there’s the reason that my commie friends seem to enjoyed the movie more than the rest of us.
I don’t think being historically correct is that important. The real reason to be concerned is that people nowadays uses these ‘Historical films’ as history textbooks and allow their mentality/hatred be affected by them. I think the film is okay to good, but not as great as some people tend to think.
My favorite of all time will have to be Once upon a time in China II, which was a great blend of comedy, romance, action and (inaccurate) history.
My favourite Donnie film will have to be the first that he wrote and directed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_of_the_Wolf
It featured some of the best or Hilarious (or both) fighting scenes ever!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTY6ii6G-oQ&feature=related
It’s super low budget, trashy, have a story that can be summarized in two lines, but I loved it!
@King
You must have drank way too much at New Years
@CrazyMMer
Can’t wait for the next Wayne Wang film to be released, the one written by Lisa See and produced by Wendy Murdoch!
“@King
You must have drank way too much at New Years”
Cruise booze?
N,
There’s also censorship. Capitalism isn’t the only factor over there. But man, they really took license with that one. People will treat it like a textbook because there’s no real dialogue about what Yip really accomplished.
BTW, would you be interested in podcasting? I’m just throwing some ideas around in my head.
@jaehwan
To be honest Bryan, I’m not really interested in podcasting…it’s just not my thing (And I avoid talking on the phone as much as I could). Sorry!
when you say “people will treat it like a textbook” which people are you talking about?
it’s always going to be the easily influenced will take their cues from mass media. and that’s why the CCP is constantly playing up the propaganda.
Larry’s got it spot on that the US have always been utilizing the media as a tool.
and obviously, Ip Man came out in 2008 and I haven’t seen any blogs about it on bigwowo before then.
as far the last sham-urai goes, we MM constantly bitch about “haolewood”
N,
No problem!
Crazy MM’er,
I disagree with you 100%. When you make a movie, and you give it a title with the name of a historical figure, put him in the same town around the same time he lived, make him study the same martial art, have the character have a son by the same name as the historical figure’s name…and then you have him accomplish all sorts of things he never did, there’s a problem with truth. I don’t think it has anything to do with whether one is easily influenced or not. It’s kind of like blaming Japanese children for not knowing about Japanese war atrocities. People study what’s out there.
“and obviously, Ip Man came out in 2008 and I haven’t seen any blogs about it on bigwowo before then.”
Well…
a) It’s not an American movie and didn’t get much press here.
b) I just saw it this past weekend.
c) I was holding out for the WKW version anyway.
Anyway, I think this is the only AA blog which has mentioned it, right? If you think something is important, feel free to mention it.
I was entertained but yeah the revisionism was waaaay out there. My alternate ending would have Yip waking up in an opium den. It was all just a dream!
Its too bad Wing Chun is kind of a joke in MMA.
if it’s an AA blog, why bother with the old world Asian media? i refuse to post on that apologist 8asians, but you just recently posted some AA media and folks should be more aware of those types of positive AA portrayals.
i’m not defending the revisionism, but merely pointing out that all societies do it.
Chen,
Haha! That would’ve been awesome. And a bit more accurate.
That’s the thing that the producers/censors/whoever don’t get. You can be an awesome hero, an awesome anti-hero, or both. You don’t have to be a saint to be great.
crazy MM’er,
Well, Donnie is kind of Asian American, right? And I do think that some Asian Asian media can be sources of inspiration for us. So that’s why I’m posting it.
I do think that all societies change stuff to a certain degree, but I don’t know if most societies change stuff to this degree. Think about it–Yip Man, a freedom fighter who took a stand (and a bullet) against Japanese aggreession? That’s what I got from the movie. And yet it never happened. I can’t imagine anyone in the U.S. making a movie where FDR got out of his wheelchair and kicked the shit out of Adolph Hitler. At least not as anything other than a comedy.
seriously? you don’t think haolewood revisionism and rascist fantasies to slaughter the yellow man is worse than China’s cheap transparent nationalism?
for starters, do i even have to name cowboys and indian movies?
Cowboy and Indian movies? Recently?
I’m not a big Hollywood fan, but I actually think (and this could get me into trouble) that the American system of making movies is better than the Chinese system for one reason alone–censorship. Here we can have our Wong Fus, Justin Lins, etc. In China, everything has to pass muster with the government. Perhaps even more significant is the lack of a free press. Perhaps the reason why cheap historical fudging takes place less often here is that we have reviewers who can analyze stuff for the public.
I think most of the lying these days that takes place in American cinema has to do with racebending–21, Airbender, Attila, anything with a White Jesus, etc. That’s definitely a form of lying, and I don’t watch (nor will ever watch) those movies. But the system in America at least allows us to call b.s. on producers who lie.
there is an “underground” film scene in China. but i’d agree the censorship is heavy handed.
as far the US media goes: they’ve done a number on you. it’s like the matrix, the best prison is one the prisoner don’t see it as one and supports it willingly. free your mind.
read up on counter-culture.
MM’er wrote:
“as far the US media goes: they’ve done a number on you. it’s like the matrix, the best prison is one the prisoner don’t see it as one and supports it willingly. free your mind.
read up on counter-culture.”
I don’t understand this either. I just said that the U.S. system allows us to call b.s. on stuff, which is what I’ve been doing? Isn’t it? Either one of us is confused, or there is something you’re not telling me.
jaehwan
“Perhaps the reason why cheap historical fudging takes place less often here is that we have reviewers who can analyze stuff for the public.”
Hm… they do? The Tudors? Hidalgo? Anna and the King? Last Samurai? Dragon, the Bruce lee story? Braveheart?
While I do agree China is worse when it comes to freedom of speech, how is it related to Ip Man the movie, it is a Hong Kong movie, and I’m sure if the movie makers wanted to stick to the story, they could, but it will also fail in the mainland market. The fudging of facts is very market driven, just like how the facts are fudged in Braveheart to make it more dramatic, and hence, sell more tickets.
Lets give a hypothetical scenario where Ip Man is a white dude and Hollywood is making this movie as a blockbuster, I seriously doubt there would be less history fact fudging.
As for censoring, the difference between censorship in China and in the US is that US does it through mass media and apathy. Where as China simply blocks it, US media simply overwhelms you with spin, half truth, and doubt. Unpopular facts simply get buried under massive spin that people want to read. It is hidden, it is in-direct, but it is just as powerful and effective (if not more powerful) than Chinese method of censorship where most of the time, what and how something gets censored depends more on the local bureaucrat’s mood and competence than some sort of universal mandate.
Just to say China directly censors more doesn’t mean much, because frankly, to circumvent Chinese censorship in China is about as difficult as digging up extremely unpopular facts here. For vast majority of population you get the same result, whether it is in the US or here.
Ei,
I haven’t seen the first two movies , but Anna and the King was only loosely based on the real life character, the same way Barrabas by Par Langkervist was. The Last Samurai is in the same boat. Both were marketed as fiction (although people in the media did point out the annoying fact of having a White guy in a leading role about old Japan). Dragon was supposed to be fact, and I think it came fairly close, even if it was a goofy movie. Sure, the cleaver fighting scene didn’t happen, but everyone knows that. The main point was that Bruce Lee was a groundbreaker in martial arts and film. It would be a whole different story if they had Bruce Lee running for a seat in Congress and changing the world by becoming Speaker of the House and forcing President Nixon to come clean with Watergate.
“While I do agree China is worse when it comes to freedom of speech, how is it related to Ip Man the movie, it is a Hong Kong movie, and I’m sure if the movie makers wanted to stick to the story, they could, but it will also fail in the mainland market. The fudging of facts is very market driven, just like how the facts are fudged in Braveheart to make it more dramatic, and hence, sell more tickets.”
Ip Man is NOT a Hong Kong movie. Sure the players are mostly from HK, but it’s filmed in mainland China (shot in Shanghai) and is therefore subject to mainland censors in terms of its creation. It even opened in China. The filmmakers of course could have decided to film in Hong Kong, and yes, they could then make a much more realistic movie that didn’t hawk silly nationalism, but then there would be two problems:
1. It would cost a LOT more money to make (which is a big problem)
2. They still wouldn’t be allowed to show it in the mainland (for the same reasons–you can’t make a main Chinese guy look bad if there are Japanese people invading the city) and therefore couldn’t sell to the 1.3 million people living there (which is an even bigger problem).
Censorship makes a huge difference.
“Just to say China directly censors more doesn’t mean much, because frankly, to circumvent Chinese censorship in China is about as difficult as digging up extremely unpopular facts here.”
I agree with you that there is some powerful media spin here in the U.S., but I don’t know if it’s that easy to get around Chinese censors. Sure, Chinese people can look for proxy servers in the U.S. to read Facebook, but if you’re thinking of starting your own newspaper, filming your own multimillion dollar movie, or writing a book for broad distribution in China, I think it’s pretty hard to do it without government intervention.
If the defense for Anna and the king, brave-heart etc was “loosely based on a true person/history”, why can’t the same thing be said for this movie. That seems like a cheap cop out defense of Hollywood re-visioning. So if Ip Man simply flashed “Dramatic re-enactment based on true events” text at start of the movie. Would that make everything alright?
And Dragon Bruce Lee story is very loosely based on Bruce Lee’s life. For example, it completely committed the fact Bruce most likely did have a mistress (not very glamorous is it), or the conflict with producers of Kung Fu, etc. Of course, the amount of changes is subjective to the viewer.
As for the film itself, it starred HK actors, the distributor is a HK company, and I’m fairly certain the studio is also from HK. Majority of the new Karate Kid film is also filmed and set in Mainland China, does that make Karate Kid any less of an American film and somehow into a mainland Chinese film?
Again, for this particular film, the main point is that the fudging is mostly for monetary purposes and very little to do with PRC policies. Lets say there were zero inferences from CCP and a complete 100% accurate version is made, how would the movie fare. I doubt most mainland mainstream audience would watch it (most HK audience probably wouldn’t either), and it will be a film for film/history buffs. Similarly, if Braveheart actually followed the real life of William instead of the glorified version, I wonder how well it would have done at the box office.
The dislike of historical fact fudging in film is fine, that’s your opinion and I will respect that. But fact is Hollywood constantly fudge history facts and over-dramatize things to make money. Likewise HK films do the same. (in fact I imagine this is the same for rest of the world’s film industry as well). Like I said, hypothetically speaking, if Ip-Man was blockbuster Hollywood production, do yo honestly believe there would be less history fudging? To say Ip Man is worse in this regard because of communist China is just plain biased IMO.
BTW, did you know that US military often loan their equipments to film makers free of charge provided the script make them look good (like Micheal Bay film), thus saving the studio millions of dollars. The alternative is very, very expensive rentals or replicas.
“but if you’re thinking of starting your own newspaper, filming your own multimillion dollar movie, or writing a book for broad distribution in China, I think it’s pretty hard to do it without government intervention.”
First, I would just like to say I feel that this subject is not all that related to Ip Man the film, but yes, that statement above is true. But again, my point is that what China does directly, here it is done in-directly through mass media and general apathy (or distraction) of general populace. I mean, how many people on the street knows what IMF does in Africa, or Operation Ajax, American fruit company’s history in South America, Liu Xiaobo’s connection with NED (or what NED is and where it came from). Is US better in some regards, definitely, but overall it is still information manipulation and IMO US method is far better at it.
Freedom of Speech is a lot less effective when your voice is drowned out and nobody is listening.
PS. Think about the general bias and complete false stereotypes that are propagated by the media on Asians. What makes you think the same kind of bias and twist of truth does not happen for other entities (racial entities or otherwise).
Good points, Ei. So comment by comment:
1. “If the defense for Anna and the king, brave-heart etc was “loosely based on a true person/history”, why can’t the same thing be said for this movie. That seems like a cheap cop out defense of Hollywood re-visioning. So if Ip Man simply flashed “Dramatic re-enactment based on true events” text at start of the movie. Would that make everything alright?”
Anna and the King, etc. were very loosely based on people whose names no one would even recognize. That’s not the case with Ip Man. They used his name to sell the movie as if it were about him–which everyone involved said it was. If they called it, for example, “Ethan Mao” or some Chinese equivalent of a fictional character, that would be one thing. But to use the guy’s name to sell the movie and to present something entirely different, well…that’s not cool in my opinion.
2. “And Dragon Bruce Lee story is very loosely based on Bruce Lee’s life. For example, it completely committed the fact Bruce most likely did have a mistress (not very glamorous is it), or the conflict with producers of Kung Fu, etc. Of course, the amount of changes is subjective to the viewer.”
I don’t think that Bruce’s mistress (if there was one) is a main part of his story. Actually, it’s never been proved that there was one, so for the sake of innocent until proven guilty, why not choose to believe that the man was faithful? I’d be fine if they put that in and thought it was relevant, but I don’t think that the nature of who Bruce was depends on whether or not he had a mistress.
I’m not 100% sure, but I thought they mentioned Kung Fu in the movie. Not a lot, but just a single sentence or two. I’d agree that that was a turning point in Bruce’s life, but even then, I could see a perfectly truthful account of his life without it.
3. “As for the film itself, it starred HK actors, the distributor is a HK company, and I’m fairly certain the studio is also from HK. Majority of the new Karate Kid film is also filmed and set in Mainland China, does that make Karate Kid any less of an American film and somehow into a mainland Chinese film?”
Point taken on that one. I’m actually surprised that the Mainlanders okayed the Karate Kid (and they did), but I guess they saw the dollars and attention it would bring to China. I actually have no idea whether they wanted to make it this way originally. But the censorship is still there.
4″Again, for this particular film, the main point is that the fudging is mostly for monetary purposes and very little to do with PRC policies. Lets say there were zero inferences from CCP and a complete 100% accurate version is made, how would the movie fare. I doubt most mainland mainstream audience would watch it (most HK audience probably wouldn’t either), and it will be a film for film/history buffs.”
I really don’t know if I agree with this. Sure, action movies sell more than arthouse movies. That’s true wherever you go. But that doesn’t mean arthouse movies can’t be made. Nor does it mean that it’s impossible to make an action movie around Yip Man which doesn’t give him credit for stuff he didn’t do.
I can’t say that I know enough about Yip Man to speculate how often he fought and how he did it, but I do know there was lots of action around HK at that time. There was general lawlessness in the streets. They could’ve easily made a good action movie without doing the ridiculous.
I’m interested in the WKW version. This one will also be filmed in China and will therefore be subject to the same censorship, but we’ll see.
5. “Freedom of Speech is a lot less effective when your voice is drowned out and nobody is listening.”
No argument from me here. BUT…it’s still better than being controlled by a central government arm. You and I might not be having this conversation as freely if we were in the PRC.
For the record, I love Bruce Lee (check my on Ben Efsaneyim’s blog article on Bruce) and have a lot of respect for Ip Man.
But Bruce Lee did have a mistress – Betty Ting. It’s pretty much an open secret.
Ip Man was a opium-addict, much of the tutoring fees goes to the habit.
No one’s perfect.
Everyone has their flaws, but there’s a huge difference in hiding their flaws and fabricating something entirely different to please a certain crowd. But my I’m actually ok with Ip Man.
I’m just not happy about people believing everything they are fed through a movie (or fictional literature/biographies) and allow it to influence their emotions like “OMG, Ip Man is such a national heroes, he destroyed the Jxps! Let’s kill Japanese people!” type of emotions that some people generate from Ip Man (which is exactly what the movie wanted to do, play up the nationalistic emotions).
And Ip Man is not a Hong Kong film. China has a strict quota of non-Chinese films being able to be screen in China per year (and these slots are usually reserved for major Hollywood films), therefore for films whose major market is China, likes to qualify themselves as a Chinese film by casting 50% of their main characters being played by Chinese actors and a similar percentage of the film must be shot in China.
Ip Man was a film that catered the Chinese from the very start. I’ll say it was always more Chinese than Honkie.
On the other hand, movies like Echoes of the Rainbow is a HK films that caters to HK audiences.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echoes_of_the_Rainbow
It’ll be interesting to see what “Bruce Lee, My brother”, from the trailers, it doesn’t seem to play up the anti-Japanese theme much, so hopefully, it’s not one of those “Let go and burn down all the Japanese flags” type of movies. MC Jin plays a relatively big cameo role.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Lee,_My_Brother
BTW I agree with Ei about Hollywood. Which is why I spend most of money on Yesasia on Asian Dramas (which is an financial obligation if your girl is a HKer) and only paid to watch two Hollywood movies in “Avatar” and “Inception”. And even though I loved both movies, I’m still pissed off what Avatar’s ‘white savior’ theme and I thought it’ll be a lot more convincing in the beginning if Arthur was played by a Asian American actor (imagine if it was John Cho!).
And of course I watched “Way of the Warrior” as well, though it’s clearly not a Hollywood film.
They still wouldn’t be allowed to show it in the mainland (for the same reasons–you can’t make a main Chinese guy look bad if there are Japanese people invading the city) and therefore couldn’t sell to the 1.3 million people living there (which is an even bigger problem).
China has a strict quota of non-Chinese films being able to be screen in China per year (and these slots are usually reserved for major Hollywood films), therefore for films whose major market is China, likes to qualify themselves as a Chinese film by casting 50% of their main characters being played by Chinese actors and a similar percentage of the film must be shot in China.
one simple question for both of you chinahands: how long (if ever) have you lived in China to arrive at your expert knowledge? it’s not quite like those “YT” experts who know everything about Chinese at the dim sum table, but still: for reals, do you even speak the language?
when you say it’s censored and banned by the government: obviously you don’t know a little something called movie piracy that’s rampant and even censors themselves buy cheap dvds on the streets.
and if you’ve seen Ip Man, then one of the supporting characters was branded a “collaborator” and it sort of glossed over. and the CCP propagandists love to portray the Chinese KMT as evil Japanese collaborators.
when you say it’s a cap of 20 foreign movies, are you saying Hong Kong is considered a foreign country? but you have the joint-production ventures spot on: KARATE KID was allowed to be shown because money was spent inside China and the toady sycophant Jackie Chan was involved.
as far Ei’s statements go: that cat is smart and informed. can anyone of you take the US media seriously anymore? when I turn on the “news” I see movie advertisements instead of real stories; and also the constant Islamophobia fear mongering.
Ei, where did you get all your info from? especially the stuff about Chiquita bananas in Latin America – I stopped eating bananas because of all those atrocities. the fruit companies make the oil companies look like Mr. Roger’s neighbors.
this is why everybody should support net neutrality: the internet is probably the last place where people from all over the world can read up on info. (despite the censorship in China, word still gets out quick when the government does something that screws people over.)
and who would thought I’d be talking about “Banana republics” on supposedly the most intellectual APA blog? lol
THE UNITED FRUIT COMPANY
-Pablo Neruda
When the trumpet sounded
everything was prepared on earth,
and Jehovah gave the world
to Coca-Cola Inc., Anaconda,
Ford Motors, and other corporations.
The United Fruit Company
reserved for itself the most juicy
piece, the central coast of my world,
the delicate waist of America.
It rebaptized these countries
Banana Republics,
and over the sleeping dead,
over the unquiet heroes
who won greatness,
liberty, and banners,
it established an opera buffa:
it abolished free will,
gave out imperial crowns,
encouraged envy, attracted
the dictatorship of flies:
Trujillo flies, Tachos flies
Carias flies, Martinez flies,
Ubico flies, flies sticky with
submissive blood and marmalade,
drunken flies that buzz over
the tombs of the people,
circus flies, wise flies
expert at tyranny.
With the bloodthirsty flies
came the Fruit Company,
amassed coffee and fruit
in ships which put to sea like
overloaded trays with the treasures
from our sunken lands.
Meanwhile the Indians fall
into the sugared depths of the
harbors and are buried in the
morning mists;
a corpse rolls, a thing without
name, a discarded number,
a bunch of rotten fruit
thrown on the garbage heap.
Crazy mm’er,
You wrote:
“one simple question for both of you chinahands: how long (if ever) have you lived in China to arrive at your expert knowledge? it’s not quite like those “YT” experts who know everything about Chinese at the dim sum table, but still: for reals, do you even speak the language?”
If you must know, I have a friend, a Chinese American guy, who works in the Chinese film industry on some of these big films. He’s been working in the industry for years now, a really long time. I’m not an expert. But he is. And yes, he speaks both Cantonese and Mandarin fluently. (I usually use English when speaking with him, but I assume that’s okay, since I use English here too.)
Don’t worry, crazy mm’er, I wouldn’t claim anything if I didn’t know it was true!
@CrazyMMer
http://china.org.cn/english/culture/181268.htm
This article will answer your questions. HK films are still foreign, but can be treated as a ‘local film’ subject to conditions – that it goes through censorship and that the film is ‘imported’ by China Film Group Corporation – which basically runs as a Bureaucracy and chooses which films to ‘localize’. The process can be time-consuming (or just rejection for some), so films tailored towards the Chinese Market will tend to be a ‘collaboration’ like you suggested.
Ip Man is very chinesey.
Echoes of the Rainbow is very Honkie.
Bruce Lee, My Brother is somewhere in between (but more towards the Honkie side).
@jaewhan, i would like to have your friend post something or do a podcast, just so I know how “fluent” his Mandarin and Cantonese are.
I have worked in the Chinese film production industry for several years, and got sick of the BS embezzlement and douchebag antics they do and left. There is more racism against Asians in Chinese media than there is in haolewood – believe it or not.
@N, that article means nothing. the way Chinese do things is if there’s enough money involved then anything will get approved. it’s more of a guideline to allow more HK access since China wants to implement tight political controls eventually to the HK S.A.R.
Yeah, there’s no need for that. I’ve been in social settings with him, and I can vouch for his fluentness (is that a word?). Also, he wouldn’t be able to support himself (as he’s been doing for a long time) without being fluent. Speaking Chinese is part of the nature of his job.
So if you’ve been working in Chinese film for several years, I’m assuming that you can vouch for everything that my friend, N, and the article are saying.
So we’re in agreement it seems.
you talk about Chinese censorship? this is how they do it US style:
http://tv.yahoo.com/news/article/tv-news.en.ap.org/tv-news.en.ap.org-20110108-us_tv_history_the_kennedys
Also, he wouldn’t be able to support himself (as he’s been doing for a long time) without being fluent. Speaking Chinese is part of the nature of his job.
for starters, what’s his position in those high-profile productions? what’s his pay rate and how is he making his money and paying taxes?
those and other questions can only be answered “on the fly” by somebody who’s familiar with the scene…
as far general censorship goes, nobody is arguing that China is a totalitarian state. what others have complaint about is how you play up the US as utopia compared to everywhere else. that’s simply not true.
“for starters, what’s his position in those high-profile productions? what’s his pay rate and how is he making his money and paying taxes?”
I wouldn’t answer these questions on the blog, as I’m sure you understand. You’ll have to take my word for it. He’s not just an acquaintance, he’s a good friend.
In any case, I’m not sure how this is relevant anyway. After all, it doesn’t seem that we’re really disagreeing on anything that he said, right? I certainly never said that the U.S. was a utopia. I just pointed out that our government for the most part doesn’t censor art.
I just pointed out that our government for the most part doesn’t censor art.
and that’s what several people have been trying to disprove to you. except you’re always bringing up all these China bashing moot points.
I’m trying to understand. So you’re saying that our government does or does not censor art?
To say that there are gatekeepers is one thing. I don’t dispute that; gatekeepers exist in every system. I wrote about that here:
http://www.bigwowo.com/2010/12/gatekeepers-and-phantom-players/
I also think the American government has a role in how art gets produced. Look at all the grants they make, all the awards they give, the way Clinton gave Maxine Hong Kingston an award for “lifetime achievement.”
But to say that the American system promotes less artistic freedom than the Chinese system? I don’t see that.
you’re trying make it like censorship is all blatant and there are guidelines posted for what’s allowed.
do you agree that contemporary racism is more covert than it is blatant these days? that’s the sort of censorship i’m trying to point out: it’s more covert and unspoken rather than in your face style like China
Yes, I agree that contemporary racism is more covert these days. But I also agree that it’s not as bad as in your face style censorship. At least the conversation gets to move.
Hey, Ip Man is free on Hulu right now:
http://www.channelapa.com/2011/01/ip-man-on-hulu.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+channelapa+%28channelAPA.com+-+Broadcasting+Asian+America+%26+Asian+American+Entertainment%29
Lots of Chinese people in Asia know about the incredible liberties taken with Yip Man’s life story in making the film.
It is accepted as a fictional film that borrows only Yip Man’s name and martial art but very little else.
Chinese people like the film because they are aware of how they are being shit on and exploited by so many hypocrite non-huaren even in the present age, and this movie seems to say to them, “Fuck you! We don’t like what you’re doing, and we will BEAT YOUR ASS when we have the chance”.
When I saw Yip Man 1 and 2 in the cinema there were standing ovations and cheers at the ending. I noticed that the non-huaren with us were a bit intimidated and uncomfortable with that. They probably expected only a kungfu movie, lol.
I didn’t like Yip Man 2 so much, the race stereotyping seemed too easy and too similar to Hollywood’s fare. I prefer Huo Yuanjia’s film more.
Pingback: The Flowers of War is the Most Expensive Chinese Film Ever | bigWOWO