(Corny but happy and cute video above.)
Thanks everyone, for your contributions to the Building Subcultures and Accepting Emotions thread. Please keep on adding…the conversation is great, and I’m reading every comment, even if I’m not participating as much as I’d like to. We’re coming upon our two year anniversary, and bigWOWO has just moved to Peachyhost, a company run by my friend Zach and his friend Keith. I just paid my big ol’ hosting bill for the next two years. Some bloggers kvetch about paying bills and stuff–I’m no different, I complain till the cows come home…but as long as some of you are benefiting, it’s totally worth the cost. I can’t promise that this blog is totally recession proof or boredom proof, but it looks like we’ve got at least two more years of time paid upfront.
I’ve got more to say about activists who have seemingly contradictory personal and political lives, but I’ll save that for another post. Instead, I wanted to piggyback off of some statements that Kobukson and King were saying in the conversation, namely their advice not to get too hung up on the negative.
Do we have any CommunityChannel fans here? She’s by far my favorite vlogger (partly because I don’t get anyone else’s jokes!). Check out the video below at around 9:30, where she talks about how people tell her that it’s easy for her to become popular since she’s an Asian woman. Natalie points out that it’s not true, that most of the top YouTubers are men, and that there are only “three girls” at the top.
The point is that the grass always looks greener on the other side, and people can learn to be happy with what they have. This doesn’t mean that people need to be complacent. It just means that it’s empowering to cherish what you have and maybe share it with others. Sure, AMs suffer from the disparity, but there are many other things to be happy about, and happiness is not a zero sum game anyway. The more you have to give, the richer you are, the happier you can be. So know what you have, and then give freely and be happy!
The point is that every single person on this planet has something that you don’t have, and you have at least one thing that no other person has. There is always something to envy about someone else, but the envy doesn’t always bring an accurate picture of what life would be like on the other side of the fence. I could envy the young people for the free time they have, I could envy the old people for the money they’ve accumulated, I could envy the Man for his privilege. But if I’m always looking with longing at what other people have, and I’m not looking at the good things I have, then I’ll never be happy.
So my message with this post is to keep fighting the good fight, but also keep your eye on what you’ve got, what you’ve accomplished, and what fortune has brought your way. Do that before even thinking about taking the next step to the next level. The best activists have wealth to share, and people often already have wealth without even realizing it.
Related posts:
I agree with everything you said. About #1…I think...
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I wouldn’t say...
J sorry dude that video freaked me out with all the geeks dancing in synch. No offense, i had to stop it halfway through. Maybe its my slow broadband made the playback kinda choppy… Your post is on DA MONEY though – ‘gratitude’ is important to share with everyone. And i’m grateful for this blog you started for us all to share our opinions and thoughts. For now, its my number one place for intelligent asian debate and ideas sharing. ( thanks to the Building Subcultures and Accepting Emotions post haha) Dont really get that too much from the other asian blogs somehow…theyre either too commercial or too generalised. Thanks again for practicing what you preach…sharing, and..open discussion.
Thanks, ABC! Your words mean a lot. Thank you for your kind words!
If James Toney wins I will be happy…just saying!
I’m behind in reading and now I feel a little lost on what’s going on so need to catch up.
But, I’m also a fan of Community Channel. She’s so witty and charming!
Frank,
That would’ve made me happy too. But Dana set up a strawman. He might as well have invited Kimbo Slice to prove UFC’s effectiveness against backyard brawlers (oh, that’s right, he did do that.) Toney was WAYY over the hill.
J-
Just found this article:
http://piepointonefour.blogspot.com/2010/04/morality-of-east-asians.html
and thought it might be interesting as a point of discussion as to ‘cohesiveness’ of asian community. Also, knowing that Kobukson is Christian, this might be interesting for him as well.
On YOMYOMF – i think Philip recently posted an article on Martin Luther King and it made me think.., but what exactly WOULD it take for western born east-asians to ‘unite’, if ever they would?
As we’re all aware, the reality is that you have distinctly different countries with different outlooks but when it comes to western Born East Asians eg: A Vietnamese and say Japanese Americans, are they more likely to unite with others based on their same homeland? Or because they are Asian? Or because they are American? Or because they are Asian American? Within Asian America, are the differences between the homeland too distinct, and is there too much past bad blood between certain countries or does the group become stronger because we are all in the same boat? Is it possible for the AA movement to find its cultural feet whilst China is still finding its own? Or is that irrelevance? Or coincidence?
…anyway this little article above may provide the seeds of discussion on this. As i recall , MLK was a Christian and as such, this empowered him to take on his african american civil rights movement responsibility. So comparing this to the AA movement, as the main thing asians want is media representation, and of course aren’t as repressed because of holding the record as being highest earning citizens.
Still, I believe unity is an important issue worth examining , and whether it is actually a realistic possible given that east asians are Chinese, Korean, Japanese, and so on. And what that reason for unity would be – a religion, an attitude, maybe could make an interesting point of discussion. As the article says, Chinese typically were brought up on Confucian culture which doesn’t have such a stronger moral compass as say Christianity. And with some kind of unity, progression will happen as it is now….quite slowly.
Secondly i found this from 2008, which could be an interesting topic in conjunction or on its own:
http://www.anbmsource.com/node/63 – assimation vs acculturation
Is language an important thing to identify that you know who you are? To me, this is an important issue as well, because some asians tend to look down on others if they dont speak the mother tongue. I know the Mainland Chinese treat Western Born Chinese as foreigners for this reason, and are kind of frowned upon.
So anyway, food for thought, incase your interested.
ABC,
Wow, some of the posts and comments on that site are disturbing!
http://piepointonefour.blogspot.com/2010/03/asian-racism-and-interracial-marriage.html?showComment=1272853044884#c4005773834325670335
That dude’s writing is totally racist. He sounds like David Duke–only he’s prejudiced against his own kind. He’s only a kid, and he’s already accepted his fate as an Asian stooge. “I accept it.” It blows my mind how a young guy can fold so quickly. That being said, he is only a kid. Hopefully he’ll get over it. Never give up on the fallen.
I don’t know what the answer is, but is it possible that Asians culturally don’t go for charismatic leadership to the same degree as Protestants or African Americans? Think about Jewish culture–they don’t have a Malcolm X or Winston Churchill. Maybe the paradigm is different?
I don’t know; I’m just throwing out ideas.
Wow. Not good.
Fatalism rears it’s ugly head. I hate fatalism. In Christianity, I believe there are two general camps of thought when it comes to a belief/interpretation of predestination. Calvinists believe that God is in charge, and simply writes out the unchangeable future, before it happens, and everybody and everything, simply work to fulfill that destiny. Armenians, on the other hand, believe that although God is in charge, that he created human beings (and perhaps other beings) with free will, and that their free will also contributes in shaping the course of their future. Two different philosophies and interpretations.
Interestingly enough, secular humanism does not escape this conundrum by getting rid of God. We run into the same two camps, albeit, not as clearly defined.
More and more, I hear people taking on this evolutionist fatalism, as if evolutionary genetics deals you a hand, and you should just accept your place in the cosmos based on the strength of that hand. This is what I see and hear.
1) There are Alpha people and Beta people, and based on what I see in myself today, I have conceded that I’m either Beta or Omega. The best I can do is get out of the way of the Alphas and except my lowly position in the pack.
2) I am part of a Beta group. Me and my friends are not on the water polo team, or me and my girls are not on the cheerleading squad. So, if we are marginalized, and others are privileged, then that’s normal. Survival/propagation of the *fittest* is the rule, and since we are clearly less valued by the herd, we must be less fit.
3) I am a member of a Beta race. Our kind of people are not as advanced, as beautiful, as talented, as athletic, as aggressive, or as successful as the Alpha race, so it’s natural that we are treated badly or ignored. This is inevitable, and our only chance is to breed into the superior race.
Whether it’s Calvinism or Darwinism, it all amounts to the same thing.
What sheep.
My main point was that without any social noise, then in a natural equilibrium containing both Asian and white populations there would be more Asian women with white men than there would be Asian men with white women. However,I think the current ratio is too high in favor of white men vs. Asian men and there are certain environmental strategies (i.e. game) that could help rectify the situation. But I don’t at any point believe there will be an equal number of WM/AF and AM/WF couples due to genetic constraints. That is not to say that many Asian males cannot do anything about their condition. They can. It is not deterministic. I am just warning people not to be overly optimistic. In fact, as I wrote in my article, I think that most people are more attracted to people of the same racial background as themselves.
If you have further questions regarding my “racist” blog, please contact me directly at AsianofReason@gmail.com. Thank you for linking to me and I am glad that my writing has been a spark to conservation at your site.
Asian of Reason
Please explain what genetic restraints you think that there are, and how this ties in to your theories on human biodiversity (HBD)
@asianofreason
Maybe you can elaborate more. Because from what I can get from that post is that you are born into this world as a second class citizen if you’re a COP and we should be happy about that. That we should perfectly be fine about not ever first preference, our second preference, hell, even our third and fourth preferences (in both love and work) because the color of our skin. And if we ever have a son whose skin color is the same as ours, we should taught him the same way?
You really think “White is beautiful” is due to genetics and not a social construct produced by years and decades of privilege and media control by european americans?
I meant POC, oops
Me three. I’m curious too.
What genetic contraints do you think you have? I don’t see the “reason” behind that statement.
(And not to instigate, but why do you put racism in quotes when describing your blog? Without putting a value judgment on the term, I think it fits the dictionary definition:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one’s own race is superior and has the right to rule others. )
Jesus. IQ = intelligence quotient. Not sure what in the hell the phrase “visual-spatial” is doing right next to “IQ”.
Alpha Aryan? Seriously. Thanks for the laugh.
There is an essence of imprinting when it comes to the IR pairing disparity – and this is why the media plays a huge role and, also, why we need to fix that, promote your Asian actors, models, writers, activists, whatever. Get them out there. Children who are born into the white-biased worlds are bombarded from birth with the notion that whites are superficially more desired. Then, you have the AF as the symbol of sexuality – how many of you have driven by those “Asian Massage Parlor” and didn’t have to wonder why there’s a sexual connotation and lure to that store front. It’s embedded.
It had nothing to do with some weird-ass non-scientific genetic inclination. AFs, from birth, are taught that the WM are socially accepted and desired mating partner. WMs, from their porno-flipping days and media saturated environment, think that AFs has some kind of magical massage fingers inside their vaginas.
We can’t change anything by bickering about evils of IR parings. We need to change our own images – and we do that by supporting each other.
And we certainly don’t change shit by strutting around with vacuum for a head and spouting prehistorical mumbo jumbo about how AMs need to accept that the Alpha Aryans are genetically reenforced with ability to take any AFs they want. (oh, but not him, since, he’s 6′ 1″.)
Puhleeze. Granted, people of lower IQ do flock together and I have to gather that the girls he knows are equally low IQ, therefore easily swayed by the TOWERING presence of Alpha Aryans and… that guy… but, really? “Ooh, I’m putting down all these other guys who are 5′ 7″ because I’m 6′ 1″. Ooh, look at me.”
We’ve been watching a lot of nature shows, courtesy of the child. Apparently, even an insect knows that it’s not the size – it’s about presentation and how you utilize what you’ve got – that determines your success in mating.
“And we certainly don’t change shit by strutting around with vacuum for a head and spouting prehistorical mumbo jumbo about how AMs need to accept that the Alpha Aryans are genetically reenforced with ability to take any AFs they want.
And THAT is why we love mama nabi
I’m 5’7″. I always thought I was made to be this size so I can sit comfortably in a sports car. I never realized that I was genetically inclined to fail. Curse my parentage!
WTF?! I thought this was ‘the happy post’.
Captain Obvious says Asian of Reason = Tool
Haha! Mama Nabi, that killed me!
“Oooh, not me, I’m not like all them other Chinamen, Massah!”
mT is right, this is supposed to be the Happy Post.
I posted it up here. If this guy is so Alpha, he shouldn’t be afraid to debate a black guy and a 5’8 Asian beta.
http://www.bigwowo.com/2010/09/asian-racism-and-the-asian-of-reason/
There is an essence of imprinting when it comes to the IR pairing disparity – and this is why the media plays a huge role and, also, why we need to fix that, promote your Asian actors, models, writers, activists, whatever. Get them out there. Children who are born into the white-biased worlds are bombarded from birth with the notion that whites are superficially more desired.
Spot on. As far as participation in the arts, statistically AAs patronize museums and symphonies and not much else. (I can’t find the original source to link to, which is driving me crazy, but that’s not so far fetched to believe, is it? There are other studies out there which say essentially the same thing, but you have to go through some gymnastics to get to that point, so–meh.)
So unless they are on the cutting edge–and I mean Cutting Edge, these are not institutions known for diverging much from European models. AAs are also more likely to wait to support things until after they have been accepted by the mainstream. AA parents are unlikely to encourage kids to go into dance, theatre or band.
If AAs hope to grow our own models of success and beauty, we have to start getting out hands dirty. We have to get those kids into arts classes to become creators, supporters of the arts in order to grow voices. Be involved in the local arts organizations and take classes yourself. We also have to be supporters of what’s already out there–support AA filmmakers and theatre companies. If there is no local AA scene, get involved on boards, volunteer, etc. and make your voices known.
Here’s a way everyone can help: Click every day in September to help the 3rd National AA Theatre Conference win a Pepsi grant.
http://www.refresheverything.com/apaconferencefestival
This conference makes me happy!
@RiceCakeRabbit
I voted! (And hopefully I don’t get spam mails because I was too lazy to create a new e-mail account). So we can vote every 24 hours?
Not looking good thus far though….
I voted! (And hopefully I don’t get spam mails because I was too lazy to create a new e-mail account). So we can vote every 24 hours?
Not looking good thus far though….
Awesome, N! I hope I don’t get spammed either. Yes, you can vote once a day.
Only 9 votes left so far this morning…
@ricerabbit
I just voted. Its great you guys have this kind of support in the US. We should have more of this kind of thing in the UK. I think AA community support is much more solid than over in the US. Although British Born Chinese do have a forum:
http://www.britishchineseonline.com/
@ J
Sorry man – by introducing this guy AOR. I actually was referring to something he posted, just because of the subject he brought up on morality, didn’t realize – until further investigation – he is this asian-wannabe troll..with too much time on his hands.
Interesting you compare Asians to Jewish culture. Yeah i think they are quite similar in some ways without need for a spokesman as such. But i think MLK was a great voice, thats why I mentioned Philip’s post. Bruce Lee is maybe the closest Asians get to that kind of ‘voice’.
Inspiration is the greatest thing to empower and unite, and the toughest to come by, in its honesty.
Denunciation, derision – inspiration’s opposite is way too easy to do. And unfortunately a bit too commonplace in online media/blogs these days. Like this guy, AOR.
@ABC
Thanks for voting!
As N said, things are not looking good though…so every vote really makes a difference. Funny, lots of people know about this campaign–people who are directly involved in making the conference happen–and yet there are hardly any votes. I don’t understand what the deal is.
No worries, ABC. His views present a problem of mind, and as you know, we love to take on problems and issues.
Maybe there’s a chance he’ll turn around and open his mind to people of different cultures and races. He’s saying now that he was only kidding and doing satire. We’ll see when we talk to him. At least he’s agreed to podcast, unlike the internet tough guys who hang out on his site.
Haha…the post by the moron on his site killed me. “I get more pussy…but let’s hide under a rock before people beat us up!” I posted a reply, but AOR deleted it. But that’s fine–every site has different commenting policies. These internet tough guys can come here if they want.
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There is the reality of various AM/WF marriages in the United States – some of the more high-profiled marriages include Daniel Wu, Yoyo Ma and David Henry Hwang
Little is made of other Chinese/Asian Americans such as Calvin Jung (well-established actor born in NYC) who lived with a Black female in Nigeria.
Then there are false perceptions of truth (in this case, AM/WF relationships) that certain people embrace for various personal reasons or agendas.
These people are entitled to their views, just as others have the right to recognize that they are wrong.
It is great to support the APA Theater Initiative for certain people to train APA actors. There are also options to support upcoming and serious APA actors who want to go beyond the aforementioned descriptions with the hope of just being a “great actor” (as shared by successful actors such as Daniel Wu. (If one doesn’t know who Daniel Wu, Anna May Wong, Sessue Hayakawa, James Shigeta, Jack Soo, etc. – your first job should be to know who these people are. One of the just mentioned pioneers earned $2M per year – ah, during the “Silent Era” in the 1920s).
Just some thoughts for those who are trying to find objective answers and not to just to hear your own voice.
USAsians:
I thought that’s precisely the problem. Daniel Wu achieved all his success in Asia (mainly Hong Kong) and he also met his wife in Hong Kong (Lisa was a famous model there). So I obviously know who he is (and he’s one of the my favourite actors) and I’m sure that someone that follows the Hong Kong movie industry would know him as well. However how many people is that?
He has great looks, his acting had grew tremendously after some edgy roles such as Protege, blood brothers etc, he has undeniable popularity in Asia, he’s american, why isn’t he scouted by Hollywood? And let’s try to test the objectivity component by asking the girls(since I’m sure they generally would be objective in this matter), for all his talent and hotness, how many Asian American girls know who he is? I would presume that a large number might, but the majority doesn’t. (Can someone disprove this assumption?)
Would Daniel Wu have any success close to what he has now (or any success at all), if he stayed in the states for his acting career? Daniel Wu is practically seen as ‘Asian’ only because his lack of involvement in America, Yo-Yo Ma is not mainstream by any sense of the imagination and while David Henry Hwang fits the bill to some degree, again how many asian americans, let alone people in general, actually know about him?
Lisa S.’s father is actually Chinese/French and you seem to have trouble finding more than 5 examples spanning over 100 years. On the other hand, we can probably list out 15 in the opposite direction that are happening right now. And I personally don’t harbour ill feelings towards AF actresses that dates white people exclusively, but the disparity is so high that you simply can’t avoid recognizing it. To be point, I would have absolutely shocked if I found out actresses in the younger generation like Jamie Chung, Ellen Wong or Brenda Song actually dates or have dated an Asian guy.
I can name two AF actresses that married an AM though – Ming Na and Grace Park.
“why isn’t he scouted by Hollywood?”
• He just signed with CAA.
• Why hasn’t the Asian American entertainment communities recognize since he was born in Oakland and first went to Hong Kong after he graduated from getting his graduate degree. This question is directed at the self-described Asian American entertainment communities that – unfortunately – involve many working AA actors.
• He has long worked with Giant Robot since the publication was first started.
many Asian American girls know who he is?
• One can get some answers by seeing how many girls attended his recent Q&A with Giant Robot’s Martin that was not widely announced. I would presume that a large number might, but the majority doesn’t. (Can someone disprove this assumption?)
Would Daniel Wu have any success close to what he has now (or any success at all), if he stayed in the states for his acting career?
• His goal wasn’t to be an actor – he’s trained/educated as an archect.
• While traveling in Hong Kong, he picked up modeling job because he needed money. HK director (YonFan) saw him and put him in a move. 50 films later, he has for an extended period of time looking for roles beyond the normal garbage.
• Note: He speaks perfect English and had to quickly learn Cantonese for his first role
Daniel Wu is practically seen as ‘Asian’ only because his lack of involvement in America
• And lack of attention from the Asian American communities
Yo-Yo Ma is not mainstream by any sense of the imagination
• The BEST cellist in the world who has performed with every major orchestra and mainstream artist in his 90+ CDs is not mainstream? He might not be a rap artist – since AA communities don’t support rap artists noting that Jin went to HK to get support – but he is mainstream by any definition.
David Henry Hwang fits the bill to some degree, again how many asian americans, let alone people in general, actually know about him?
• Your statement is more an indictment of the AA communities for their lack of knowledge of somebody who has worked with people as diverse as Elton John to John Cage to John Lone to Domingo Placido to Unsuk Chin to Mark Morris to Kent Nagano to Phil Collins to Lea Salonga to Mako while being one of the few Chinese/Asian American writers sought by a major network (NBC) to write a special program that got aired – even though it was terrible while featuring Russell Wong, Ming Na and others.
Lisa S.’s father is actually Chinese/French
• Notice that you didn’t mentioned her mom and that her father runs Caesar Palace. It is interesting to note that Lisa has mentioned that she pursued him.
have trouble finding more than 5 examples spanning over 100 years
• Nope, just didn’t see the need
• At a recent Chinese wedding in Houston Texas, all the gentlemen (overseas-born Chinese) were married to great-looking white females born and raised in Texas with a definitive drawl.
• It is acknowledged that you are always seeking things that supports your presuppositions.
• If one goes to Asia, many of the high-powered Asian people are married to white women. Women are drawn to men of power, influence and/or men. I understand that you presently don’t socialize in an environment of powerful Asian males.
• One fears that your views is a reflection of your social success – I hope not
ill feelings towards AF actresses
• Only problem is when AF married ugly non-Asians
absolutely shocked if I found out actresses in the younger generation like Jamie Chung, Ellen Wong or Brenda Song actually dates or have dated an Asian guy.
• Your presuppositions and assumptions again have raised its ugly head.
• Confident and influential Asian males attract pretty women of all ages.
I can name two AF actresses that married an AM though – Ming Na and Grace Park
• With Grace Park being in Hawaii Five-O, doesn’t anybody know what happened to Ming Na after her aborted and ill-advised attempt to enter the music industry by managing At Last – her take on boy groups that were the fad in China/Asia like groups such as David Tao’s Tension.
When one enters different social circles and environments filled with people of power and influence – it is interesting to note the many differences.
Hope that this thread will make you open to exploring other social circles beyond your current one
@USAsian
“He just signed with CAA.”
Cool, any positive news coming out? Would be over the moon if I get to see him on American TV/movies. I waiting to get my hands on the DVD version of Triple Tap and hoping that there will be more coverage on “Inseparable” since it has Kevin Spacey in it. Look, I’m surprised myself that Daniel Wu is not as well-known in the AA community as he should be (especially for his work with the rotten tomato guys in creating Alivenotdead.com), but the reality is that, the majority of people (including AAs, both male and female) simply don’t pay even attention to AA actors/actresses.
“In relation to Yo-Yo Ma”
Yes, he has achieved great things and good for him. But classical music probably hasn’t been mainstream since the end of 19th, beginning of 20th century. It’s way less mainstream than Jazz (though you can argue that Jazz, or components of it is fairly mainstream now) or Indie music. Is it sad that someone that had achieved so much is ignored by large sections of the community? Yes. But at the same time, can we really expect the kids, the teens or even the twenty-somethings to know anything or anyone associated with Classical music? If I have a 17 year old daughter (which I don’t have obviously), would you really expect her to get excited about Yo Yo Ma or Jonas Brothers or Just Beilber or whatever the hip thing is now.
In regards to David Henry Hwang
I agree with you there.
The reason that I mentioned Lisa S’s father was to highlight the fact that she had a half-Asian father so she’s exposed to Asian-looking guys since she was little. While I believe Daniel can practically get any girl he wants, he didn’t marry a woman that had no connection to chinese/asian people.
In regards to the examples, I suspect you would have trouble, because frankly AM/WF is still a rarity in media/Hollywood. Whether it is a bad thing or not, that’s absolutely debatable, but I can’t seen why we can’t agree that it is something quite easily recognised.
In regards to ill feelings towards AF actresses
• Only problem is when AF married ugly non-Asians
Yes and No. Do I cringe and frown in the above scenario, I would honestly say yes. But do I cringe and frown at the likes of Anna Nicole Smith? Yes. Do I frown at Isabella Leong who now have two kids with an ugly Hong Kong Tycoon (who is a d1ckhead, judging from the way he makes money)?
And sorry, I have a lot of trouble with these comments:
• If one goes to Asia, many of the high-powered Asian people are married to white women. Women are drawn to men of power, influence and/or men. I understand that you presently don’t socialize in an environment of powerful Asian males.
• One fears that your views is a reflection of your social success – I hope not
I’m a normal twenty-something guy graduated from a decent university starting out in life and guess what my social cricle is? Normal everyday twenty-somethings. What’s wrong with that?
As a matter of fact, I don’t know a lot of ‘powerful’ Asian males, but most (there’s some bad seeds) are hard-working, funny, geniunely nice people that I enjoy having a great time with. Have the world really turned into a place where one’s social success is determined by the amount of people you know that are influential? I surely hope not. Isn’t it even more weird if I’m actually in a circle of filthy rich Chinese FOBs?
For the record, I don’t generally don’t harbor any ill feelings to AFs in AF/WM relationships (ACCC only applies to celebrities anyway). And I do have some AF friends that are in AF/WMs (in fact, for one of them, I would say that the dude was definitely quite a catch for her, so good on her!), but I would be lying if I said the majority of my AF friends are not ones that dates or are dating AMs (Because generally I do have a lot more things in common than they do). So personally I know AFs that dates only white dudes, but I’m close to plenty more that do date Asian guys, so you’re rarely see me dissing AFs as a whole.
You got to keep in mind that building relations IS a two way process and as many bitter asian guys that are out there (and I acknowledge they do exist), there’s probably an equal amount of AFs from AF/WMs that thinks they are too trendy/superior to even talk to AM guys. Hell, one of my AF friends was even constantly put down/bullied in her younger days for having a preference in Asian guys by her AF group.
So yes, I agree that quite a number of times, AMs can go overbroad in their criticsms of AFs, but on the other hand, not all AFs are saintly either.
Just saw pics of Daniel Wu at CAA through Nakamura’s blog, gald to see the crazy lady fans lol.
Enjoying this conversation on a subject that long been discussed for the past 30 to 40+ years
Daniel on American TV
You have to give him props for not taking the typical martial arts/nerd/evil peril type of roles that he has turned down. He is with CAA, one of the top agencies in the world.
Daniel and AA Communities
Since AA Hollywood executive are unwilling to champion Asian stores/actors like what has been done in many other communities – other ways will have to be explored. Plus AA communities (in general) are not supportive of APA actors – one of the reasons is that (generally) they are not leading-star talent/charisma.
Yo-Yo Ma
Yoyo Ma has constantly/consistently SRO halls from 4,000 to 18000 people for many years. At the Hollywood Bowl, Silk Road Project (eclectic World/Asian group) sold out the venue with only 20% of the people being Asian – that means he has been very successful for many years.
Youths and Classical Music
Yoyo Ma hasn’t been ignored and has conducted large youth clinics throughout the U.S. and the world with its results being seen in the many young Asian players in orchestras/symphonies throughout the world.
Jonas Bros and Justin Bieber
Since the Jonas Bros already broke up and Justin Bieber just being another flash that will be on the scene for many couple years – Yoyo Ma still sell out venues as big as Bieber has been playing. It is noteworthy that Legaci (Filipino vocal group) are backing up Bieber.
Lisa S’s father
Her father was not brought in an Asian environment since she was born in Monaco – though she has been in Hong Kong films. Yes, she has Asian blook but doesn’t “look” Asian while being world-minded – as noted by her purchase of owning land/house in South Africa.
If you are seeking AM/WF in Hollywood, there are very few working and successful AA male actors. I was assuming that you were looking at the entire general public. If you want to examine AM/WF relationships on the silver screen, this can be seen as early as the “Silent Era” where Sessue Hayakawa made a number of films with AM/WF relationships. With James Shigeta during the 1950s-1960s starred in films that featured AM/WF relationships – Bridge to the Sun where a Southern girl from Tennesse fell in live with Japanese national (Shigeta) and followed him to live in Japan (true story) and a Samuel Fuller-penned Crimson Kimino where there was a love triangle where Shigeta won the affections of a white female over a white male.
AF and Ugly Non-Asians
Females of any race are attracted to men with money, influence, power and/or sexual prowess – of which, your example supports my assertions.
normal twenty-something guy
The only observation I have is that your life experiences are very limited. My perspectives based on being many years older than you have taught me that there are many different kinds of people and lifestyles beyond my initial circle of friends.
It is noteworthy that confident, influential and well-heeled YOUNG Asian male entrepeneuers exist everywhere (ie – Silicon Valley) that attract women of all colors.
one’s social success
Confidence is often the first indication
ill feelings to AFs
I don’t either because it is as Asian Male problem, not as Asian Female issue. Are we expecting AFs to kowtow to AMs – most people would ask when AMs will have the balls to ask women that they desire!?!v
I have seen many of my friends (myself included) date Black to Persian to Indian to Jewish to Irish to Italian to Thai to Hispanic females because of our confidence of who we are to pursue outrageously gorgeous females. Often my friend (myself included) don’t want to date Asian females for a wide variety of reasons.
Side Note:
It is a sad commentary that the below-listed issues (AM/WF, Asians in Hollywood) have prompted the same questions that were asked, explored, discussed and complained since the early 1960s in various ways.
One might want to discover what past leaders, writers, artists and others learned from asking these questions – if finding answers is the goal.
As previously stated, one has the right to believe any perceptions (true or false) on any subject. One also has the right to acknowledge when the submitted well-intentioned comments doesn’t incorporate any tangible research beyond passing observations that applies to the general public at large.
As oft stated – if we don’t know our history, we are bound to repeat it
USAsians,
I agree. 150%.
The problem is that people used to have to dig like crazy to learn what our predecessors did. I was amazed when I started blogging on the 44s at how few people knew about Frank Chin, and yet when I think about my own history, I realize I was lucky to have stumbled on to his work through the recommendation of a really excellent high school English teacher. Much of Chin’s early work is out of print today, and so it’s hard for people to read up on what he did.
Hopefully the internet–with it’s cheap cost and ability to replicate things quickly–will change that, and hopefully, it’ll help us break the cycle of repeating history.
Feel free to check out these starting points of discoveing the Asian Pacific American communities.
Visit http://us_asians.tripod.com/features.html to find out our prominent and successful artiat/leaders
HISTORY
• 1848: Ah Toy (1st Chinese Madam) – http://us_asians.tripod.com/timeline-1600.html#ah-toy
• 1892: Exclusion of Chinese Laborers – http://us_asians.tripod.com/timeline-1875.html#exclusion-chinese-laborers
• 1897: Fong See (Interracial Marriage / Lisa See’s Great Grandfather) – http://us_asians.tripod.com/timeline-1875.html#fong-see
• 1901: Chinese Exclusion Convention – http://us_asians.tripod.com/timeline-1900.html#chinese-exclusion-convention
• 1908: Soong Sisters – http://us_asians.tripod.com/timeline-1900.html#soong-sisters
• 1916: Toraichi Kono (Charles Chaplin’s Longtime Assistant) – http://us_asians.tripod.com/timeline-1910.html#toraichi-kono
• 1917: Asian American Soldiers in WWI – http://us_asians.tripod.com/timeline.html-1910.html#wwi
• 1925: Him Mark Lai (Finest Researcher on Chinese American History) – http://us_asians.tripod.com/timeline-1920.html#him-mark-lai
• 1933: Ng Poon Chew Dies (Chinese Mark Twain Who Spoke Against the Chinese Exclusion Act – http://us_asians.tripod.com/timeline-1930.html#ng-poon-chew
• 1935: Eddy See’s Dragon’s Den (1st Chinese Night Club)
• 1938: Forbidden City (Best Known Chinese American Club) – http://us_asians.tripod.com/timeline-1930.html#forbidden-city
• 1939: Frank Fat (Owner of Longest-Running Chinese Restaurant and Home to Sacramento Politicians) – http://us_asians.tripod.com/timeline-1930.html#frank-fat
• 1942: Japanese Internment Camps – http://us_asians.tripod.com/timeline-1940.html#japanese-americans-interned
ARTICLES
• Vincent Chin Murder – http://usasians-articles.tripod.com/articles-vincentchin.html
• Analysis of Asian American Literature – http://us_asians.tripod.com/articles-aalit.html
DIVERSITY
• Hollywood & the Asian Exclusion – http://us_asians.tripod.com/articles-ethnic-diversity.html
• Hollywood’s “Yellow Ceiling – http://usasians-articles.tripod.com/yellow-ceiling.html
• Slanted Screen – http://usasians-articles.tripod.com/slanted-screen.html
• Lynchings of Asian Americans – http://usasians-articles.tripod.com/articles-eerily-similar.html
FEATURES
• Yoyo Ma – http://us_asians.tripod.com/features-yoyo-ma.html• Anna May Wong – http://us_asians.tripod.com/features-am-wong.html
• Dallip Saund – http://us_asians.tripod.com/features-dalip-saund.html
• Daniel Dae Kim – http://us_asians.tripod.com/features-ddk.html
PAST INTERVIEWS
• David Henry Hwang – Prominent Playwright – http://usasians-articles.tripod.com/davidhenryhwang.html
• Ken Mok (E.P. of “Next Top Model”) – http://us_asians.tripod.com/articles-ken-mok.html
• Carrie Ann Inaba (Judge of “Dancing with the Stars”) – http://usasians-articles.tripod.com/inaba.html
• Lea Salonga (Ms. Saigon / Flower Drum Song) – http://usasians-articles.tripod.com/lea-salonga.html
• Pun Bandhu (Producer of Tony Award-Winning Spring Awakening) – http://usasians-articles2.tripod.com/pun-bandhu.html
• Unsuk Chin – “New Music” Composer – http://usasians-articles.tripod.com/unsuk-chin.html
• Hiromi – Prominent Japanese Jazz Pianist – http://usasians-articles2.tripod.com/hiromi.html
• Chinese Actresses in Robert Duvall’s Broken Trail – http://usasians-articles2.tripod.com/broken-trail.html
• Asian American Actors in Dairy Queen Commercial – http://usasians-articles.tripod.com/dairy-queen.html
• Calvin Jung (Actor / Gary Marshall’s “Valentine’s Day”) – http://usasians-articles.tripod.com/davidhenryhwang-creative-process.html#calvin-jung
In addition, there are films such as “Snow Falling in Cedars” where it
• Racism against Japanese Americans
• AF choosing an AM (Rick Yune) over a WM (Ethan Hawke)
• American judicial system overriding the general public’s prejudices (similar to the present Muslim situation) in a situation that has occurred many times
• Film utilizing the Internment Camps and the 442nd/100th Battalions in WWII providing a history lesson.
Note: Film is better than the Dennis Quaid/Tamlyn Tomita-starring “Come to the Paradise”
@USAsians
Correctly me if I was wrong since I saw “Snow Falling in Cedars” a while ago and I loved it as a much better version of “To kill a mocking bird”. If I remember correctly, there was very little coverage of the romance between Yune and Kudoh characters and much of the ‘beautiful romantic components’ was between Hawke’s character and Kudoh’s character in flashback mode with heavy implications that they were only taken apart from each other between of Kudoh’s mother’s ‘racist’ thoughts.
Beautifully shot film and I’ll probably need to get a copy to see it again, but that was my recollections (so corrrectly if I’m wrong). But definitely a movie for all AAs to see.
Sad, but not surprising, that not many AAs are aware of Snow Falling in Cedar nor of many other important films.
It does excellently address the racism and romance in all its applications/implications. Kudoh’s character made her decision based on love, obligations and racism.
One can say that if the Asian Pacific American communities don’t know or care about their films or pioneering actors (or leaders) – there is not a need (nor expectation) for Hollywood or the general public to care.
Note:
It is ironic when a long-standing and self-proclaimed Asian American media advocacy group (more accurately its founder) stated that his biggest and only complaint was Kudoh’s irritating Japanese accent. Character development, plot, photography, directorial direction, utilization of the Internment Camp as the film’s backdrop, Kudoh’s character selection of Yune’s character as a husband over Ethan Hawke’s character, etc. were not even considered in his review.
Commentary
If our present AA media advocates have not effectively changed the perception and diversity after many years, should some tangible changes be considered – if change is what is desired?
@usasians
I would not be surprised if there are a large chuck of AA activists that doesn’t see anything wrong with movies involving Asians nowadays all being white saviour movies or see ‘Joy Luck Club’ as the greatest movie ever made. And I know personally a large number of AAs that criticizes people for being too sensitive about ‘whitewashing’ roles.
Nothing is more dangerous than uninformed self-proclaimed activists who are disrespectful to the pioneers before them and their achievements.
Ongoing apathy within the APA communities has allowed the same self-proclaimed APA media advocates to continue their ineffectiveness while complaining why there are no changes in Hollywood. In addition, if APA executives in Hollywood are unwilling to champion noteworthy APA projects/artists (since many of them are absolutely C..P) – are we expecting non-Asian executives to champion them?
As noted earlier in this thread, there have been great films starring Asian Pacific Americans since the 1920s till the 1970s/1980s – oddly enough, this is when many of these “APA media advocates “started” their efforts.
Re: Joy Luck Club’ as the greatest movie ever made . . . And I know personally a large number of AAs that criticizes people for being too sensitive about ‘whitewashing’ roles
+
When uninformed people starting making choices, little good . . .
I definitely agree with you regarding APA Hollywood types. The most ridiculous case of white-washing that was made into an equally ridiculous movie was made by an APA (James Wong). The last air bender which probably fits into a similar description to the movie above is again directed by an APA. If one look closely, there are lot sof APAs behind the desks, but they seem to be happy trotting out the same stuff without question.
And how many AM protogonists appeared in Wayne Wang’s films post “Joy Luck Club”? (I thought his stuff was not bad before that – I saw Chan is missing and I thought it was pretty good.).
As for AA actors being c**p, I agree to a degree, but they really lack the opportunities to hone their skills. For example Daniel Wu was very raw in the beginning, but had gotten a lot better after 50 movies. (Oh yeah, I got my copy of Triple Tap today). Alex Wang (Better known as Lee Hom) had gotten into movies lately. Though his acting skills are rather questionable, he’s really, really huge in Asia (especially amongst the girls), and would like to see him make his way across back in America as well. (Have to admit that I spend quite a bit of my hard earned money in my teenage/early college years buying his music stuff – mainly to impress the girls, and it worked, so I’m not complaining).
And do you think it’s a good idea to adovacate to bring the good Asian films to the states? Personally, I didn’t really see that problem with the lack of Asian male protagonists in the American media until a few years ago (thanks to Angry Asian Men), because I always experienced a healthy dose of Asian cinema, so I never had any trouble relating myself being able to become a protagonist growing up. While it’s still not Asian American, they are at least very well-shot films where the non-white looking characters are protrayed as three dimensional and beautiful. In fact, I’ll say it definitely have helped me.
And it’s also interesting how the original Asian versions were much better than the adapted Hollywood versions of “My Sassy Girl”, “Lake House” and of course, “The departed”. The Hollywood version of “The departed” was fairly good, but the first “Internal Affairs”(and only the first, the sequels/prequels are all fairly trashy) was extremely good.
Suggestion
“Nothing in this world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” ~ Martin Luther King
Re: James Wong
He is consistently working in Hollywood as a producer (http://m.imdb.com/name/nm0939128/filmotype/producer), director (http://m.imdb.com/name/nm0939128/filmotype/director) and writer (http://m.imdb.com/name/nm0939128/filmotype/writer) who has taken chances where the results have ranged from bad to good.
Re: M.Night Shamalayan
He is another person who is consistently working and getting money for his projects – despite how bad they are.
APA Executives
It is strange that APA executives are not working with people like James Wong and M. Night Shamalayan – could it be that the APA executives are not working at the same level – Hollywood career-wise? James and M.Night are making films that they want while the APA executives are worried if they will have a job the next day. Many of the self-proclaimed APA media advocates have no idea on how Hollywood really works.
Re: AA actors being c**p, I agree to a degree, but they really lack the opportunities to hone their skills
+
Uh, if they want to be actors instead of “stars” while expecting to work because they are Asian (not because they are trained, professional and talented) – there are countless theater and indie film opportunities. Daniel, himself, has stated that there is no excuse to be always acting – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEW_f3uGDLA – if one wants to be a great actor. It is a convenient excuse that there are no opportunities if one is not looking.
Re: Alex (LeeHom) Wang is a New York-born musician who graduated from Berklee BEFORE being a big star in China and having to learn how to speak Chinese. If LeeHom wanted to be big in the U.S., he would have to move back like what Fei Xiang did in the 1980s when he was China’s biggest star.
lack of Asian male protagonists in the American media
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Self-proclaimed APA media advocates have created this issue by eliminating many protagonist roles. Angry Asian Man blog is something I read periodically. It is informative, however, his background does not include any actual and tangible Hollywood experiences.
Good Stories
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Good stores are good stories are good stories that happen in all communities in one form or another. Remakes/reboots from different countries happened all the time in film and television. Usually the remakes are not as good, however there are exceptions like the Bourne Identity series. Scott Hicks-directed Snow Falling in Cedars could have substituted the Japanese characters with people of Jewish descent in Germany, Chinese descent during the Nanking Massacre times, Irish descent when they were being conquored in England, of Mongolian descent when they were being ruled by Genghis Khan, Christians during the Roman Empire era, of Muslim descent living today, etc.
“Nothing in this world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” ~ Martin Luther King
http://www.worksofartmovie.com/
http://interpretationsfilm.com/
It was too late to submit anything to the film festival (Interpretations) that you are promoting
Deadline was Sept 15th, you posted on the 17th
I wasn’t promoting it – I have no idea if there’re any filmmakers here (I know there was some white dude who makes second rate martial arts film using Asians as villains but, obviously, that film festival is not exactly in his league) but I thought it would be nice for people to be aware of Asian American indie film efforts out there.
I know that, way back when, the people involved with Works of Art were in an Asian Actors group called \Mellow Yellow\ (or something like that) and another group (I forget) and I don’t know if it’s still functioning as a group right now or not… but I am proud of their accomplishments – I know they worked pretty damn hard to get their foot in and be recognized.
(I meant to say that in the last comment but had to run.)
I was just curious why you posted a film competition when the deadlines have past.
For those artists of Asian descent that are seeking to be the best, not just the best hyphenated actor (ie Asian American actor), there are various opportunities. If one learns from previously mentioned people such as Anna May Wong, Sessue Hayakawa, James Shigeta to Daniel Wu – there are, and have been, paths have been shown.
Daniel offers his advice for those people who want to be good actors at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnscx0NHedQ
Daniel is not interested in the great many people who want to be ‘stars.”
I only agree to half the things Daniel says in the interview.
I like Daniel a lot (well, as much as a straight guy can, anyway), but to be honest, he was a sh*t house actor in the early parts in his career (partly due to him never aspired to be an actor and didn’t have any training in the beginning). It wasn’t until he got 20-30 movies under his belt that he eventually ‘get’ it. If he went through the same path, but in America, I’m not very sure he would have gotten a second chance (where he arguably got ten or more chances to develop in HK).
John Cho, for example, developed his skills through a series of AA-specific films and a had a bunch of small roles in hollywood before he started getting more serious/large roles. I’ll say that Cho (who at this stage would the best AA actor in this generation) benefitted greatly from these AA-specific films. You mention that aspiring actors could look at the indie scene to develop their skills, I’m not that familiar with the indie circle, but how many non-asian directors/writers/producers (and especially white) is willing to let an Asian actor play the main lead in their make-or-break movie? I will be very happy if you could dispel my assumption and that Asian male leads actually represent a good percentage (5%?) of the leads in all indie films directed by non-asians.
And unforunately for Daniel, Hollywood is still going to see him as Asian first, actor second because AA males are so underpresented in front of the screen. And as talented as Dr. Ken is, the majority of Americans still remembers him best in his role as the “gay asian triad leader that runs around naked exclaiming how small his dick is” and that’s despite him doing some quite good stuff after.
And to be honest, I’m still a bit skeptical on whether Daniel’s career will pan out in America (and that’s not knocking Daniel, it’s just how Hollywood works nowadays, but at least he’s trying). But hopefully for his sake, it will work out.
only agree to half the things
++
What specific things that you don’t agree with?
he was a sh*t house actor
++
Ah, you’ve watch his beginning films. What made you watch them?
I’m not very sure he would have gotten a second chance
++
Hey, if Rick Yune got several chances, and he didn’t improve as an actor, Daniel would have made it because his looks and “it” quality attracted directors to him. His path is similar to Maggie Q, who was a very pretty girl who didn’t know how to act. As everyone knows, sex sells – in Hong Kong and in Hollywood with all its actors whose main strength is their looks.
Re: John Cho
At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cho – one would note that Daniel and John both started as models. Though EWP is the oldest AA theater group, the best training exist in many other places (even AA actors have gone to these schools such as Carnegie Mellon, NYU, etc.
Most of John’s roles – again noted at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cho – are not “serious” and he hasn’t done many indie films. Daniel has gone out of his way to seek and support indie film roles.
It is questionable that John “benefited great from these AA-specific” films for his career. People would be interested in what benefits you can identify that helped his Hollywood career.
How has John Cho (who at this stage would the best AA actor in this generation) benefitted greatly from these AA-specific films?
Re: aspiring actors could look at the indie scene to develop their skills
++
Every working actor has done a great number of indie films. As Daniel had stated, there is NO reason to always be acting – assuming that one wants to act, as oppose to being a “star.”
Re: Indie Films
Indie directors are looking for ANYBODY that is serious to participate in their films. Within the last two months, I’m personally aware of three indie projects that were shot by a Brazillian, S. African and NYC crew in Southern California that had various AA actors (my friends). Daniel’s statement that many AA self-proclaimed actors want to be stars (or believe they should get roles because they are Asian), as oppose to getting trained and take advantage of every acting opportunity.
Re: Asian actor play the main lead in their make-or-break movie?
++
This question applies to every actor of any color. Acknowledging that Justin Lin has stated (as noted in this blog) that the AA communities does not support its own artists, what reasons would you submit on why anybody should risk $1-3M and 4-9 months on an unknown AA actor that does not have many credits, experiences and/or training? Actually, a better question is would you risk your own $1-3M for an indie film on a completely unknown AA actor or highly recommend your close friends/relatives/business associated
Asian male leads actually represent a good percentage (5%?) of the leads in all indie films directed by non-asians.
++
There are not many serious AA actors out there, but the existing ones are getting roles – as noted above.
Hollywood is still going to see him as Asian first
++
Daniel is investigating Hollywood and taking care in the roles that he is considering. He has CAA on his side and has co-starred in a film with Kevin Spacey. His success IS NOT based on the fact that “AA males are so underpresented in front of the screen.”
Re: Dr. Ken
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One needs to expand one’s horizons far beyond people such as Dr. Ken (though wish the best for him) to identify working AA actors. If one looks at theater, one will be surprised on what one will find.
History
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As noted before in this thread, Hollywood has supported/starred Asian Americans since the 1920s. Sessue Hayakawa made $2M per year in the 1920s, Anna May Wong starred in 60+ films, James Shigeta was the lead actor in multiracial Hollywood films where he got the white/Asian girl, Jack Soo (Chinese name) was a highly acclaimed comedian in shows such as Barney Miller, Calvin Jung (starred in American television’s longest running commercial for 12 years/Calgon Commercial, co-starred with Toshiro Mifune, worked with George C. Scott/Marlon Brando/Jet Li/Gary Marshall), etc. A better question might be what happened to the AA actors and when will AA moviegoers support the qualified bonafide actors from their own communities?
@usasians
What specific things that you don’t agree with?
I agree mostly with his views on acting/paths etc, but don’t agree on the part about being an ‘actor’ instead of an “AA actor”. The hollywood world is not as colorblind as they would imply, and there’s really no shame being the best “AA actor” first, then striving to become ‘a great actor’ later.
Re:Ah, you’ve watch his beginning films. What made you watch them?
I’m a bit of a HK movie buff in my younger days and a lot of his earlier films are action films like Purple storm, AD 2000, Gen-X cops (which were non leading/small role) etc which I certainly didn’t see because Daniel was in it (and trust me, he was fairly s**thouse in those earlier movies). Love Undercover was a good date-movie (especially if your girl was a HK girl) but his acting were nothing really special and it was One night in Mongkok that I start seeing Daniel as an actor and not the Asian Idol-type that have infested HK cinema in recent times.
And I’ve only really become a fan after his work on Heavenly kings, which I respected a lot (and it was funny stuff) – I like Andrew Lin as well. I consider Protégé as a bit of a master-piece (though I thought everyone was a bit over-shadowed by Louis Koo’s cameo as the druggie ex-husband which was absolutely convincing). Just finished watching “Triple Tap” a few hours ago and it was pretty good (Though I still can’t picture Lam Suet and Louis Koo being childhood buddies…isn’t Lam 20 years older than them?).
Look, I agree with the problem with AA not supporting AA Actors. I’m sure that if we asked AA Women to pen a movie, a large number would pen a caucasian male lead and would careless about having an AA actor. And ditto for Asian guys who will watch anything that Hollywood feeds them. It’s a problem that needs to be fixed, but it’s hard to get people to see through their ‘color-blindness’ when everything they want to see is of a paler shade.
From memory the film with Spacey was a chinese film – I remember it was a bit of a big deal in the media having Spacey in a chinese film. But I certainly hope that Daniel gets offered decent roles and he finds good material to work with. I guess we can only let history tell us later of how Daniel’s Hollywood career gets to.
re: John Cho
Yellow and Better Luck Tomorrow are definitely indies, is West 32nd considered an indie? (it’s co-produced by Daniel’s manager I think). There’s precisely my point, Cho a fairly decent actor and have had a lot of small roles over the years, but it seems that he’s only given more serious roles in flim when the director is AA and the film deals with AA people/issues. And I would argue that one of these roles is much better for him in terms of development than 500 cameo appearances on American-Pie type movies.
Note: Since the first reply didn’t get listed, it is reposted below:
@N
Re: Financial Support
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The previously asked question that I would be interested in your comments is the following: would you and/or strongly recommend your relatives/friends/business associates invest $1-3+M in a film starring an APA actor that does not have a track record or training? If not, are you expecting a non-Asian to provide something that you are unwilling to offer sinc working Asian/Asian American Hollywood executives are just as reluctant to support unknown unproven AA actors.?
Re: Daniel’s Financial Support
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Daniel has utilized his own reputation and resources to help various indie films get produced and distributed. Even Justin Lin’s spoof on Bruce Lee didn’t get distributed.
Re: best “AA actor” first, then striving to become ‘a great actor’ later
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Acknowledging that you are not an actor, every serious actor/artist wants to be the best period! Asian actors such as John Cho, James Shigeta, Michael Paul Chan, Sandra Oh, Kal Penn, Arniel Pineda, Duane Johnson, Nathan Wang, Daniel Dae Kim, qBert, Maggie Q, Daniel Wu, Karen O, Ken Watanabe, James Iha, Grace Park, apl de ap, Chad Hurley, Jon Chu, Keanu Reeves, Ang Lee, Duane Johnson, John Woo, Joseph Kang, etc. just want to be the best. Denzil Washington, Jimmy Smits, Halle Berry, Eve Mendez, Daniel Day Lewis, Will Smith, Bill Cosby, Spike Lee, etc. are just great without any reference to race.
Re: Mongkok
+
As he stated in his interview, this film had one of the firsr roles/plots that he thoroughly enjoyed that allowed him to stretch his acting talents and it showed.
Re: Heavenly Kings
++
Another indie films that Daniel got made and distributed – along with receiving various awards.
AA Women to pen a movie
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AA female writers such as Lydia Look (wrote Disney’s third highest grossing franchise – Wendy Wu with Brenda Song) that features many AA male actors in every script she writes.
Re: ‘color-blindness’
++
Hollywood is addicted to the color “Green.” With Will Smith playing a black secret service agent in the Old West (Wild Wild West) that would never happen that started with Sessue Hayakawa romancing white females that was continued by James Shigeta – there is evidence that Hollywood would do almost anything to get profits.
Re: Kevin Spacey / Inseparable
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This is an English and Mandarin-speaking film produced by an American-born / Beijing-based Chinese director. It will be distributed in China and the United States (http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/kevin-spacey-inseparable-in-china-81304487.html)
Re: Daniel’s Hollywood career
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Daniel is negotiating from a position of strength given his success, good looks and bi-lingual abilities. Given his close ties with Giant Robot (he was a contributor), friends like Carl Choi and work with organizations such as CAPE – one wonders why he is not more well-known in the APA communities. It is interesting noting that John Cho is from
Seoul and Daniel was born in Oakland.
re: Benefits of John Cho’s Appearance in AA indie films
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Better Luck Tomorrow and West 32nd (http://www.w32nd.com/) are indie films. It is noteworthy that Daniel has continued to do indie films in 2010 and that he has helped produced his last indie film. His Hollywood success is seemingly based on his other American film appearances – as it is for any actor?
Re: Serious Roles
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Indie films usually provides greater roles for any actor, hence the reason why many prominent American actors of all colors have participated – except for maybe AA actors.
Re: 500 cameo appearances on American-Pie type movies
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Working American actors know differently. If AA audiences don’t support AA films, if working AA film executives don’t support AA projects, if AA actors (generally, with various exceptions) are not interested in getting properly trained, with not many AAs pursuing an acting career, etc. – getting as many appearances in American films reach far greater number of people and on the radar screen of American executives.
Re: Future
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If, as mentioned above, will provide the monies for films, you are at the mercy of those who are providing the funds
+
If, as mentioned above, AA audiences will not support AA actors/films/music groups, you are at the mercy of non-Asian audiences’ acceptance of AA actors/films/music groups
+
If, as mentioned above, working Hollywood AA executives don’t champion AA projects, you are at the mercy of non-Asian Hollywood executives.
+
If change is what you seek, acknowledging the “Power of Green” will make it happen
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If changes are in the wind, which AA actors that are qualified merits the opportunity – visiting http://us_asians.tripod.com/features.html could provide you with a starting point
The previously asked question that I would be interested in your comments is the following: would you and/or strongly recommend your relatives/friends/business associates invest $1-3+M in a film starring an APA actor that does not have a track record or training?
If the alternative is an equally unproven/untrained white actor, why not? If Daniel never went back to HK for the part-time modelling job and instead is trying his luck here in the states, it’s the type of break he would have needed.
Re: best “AA actor” first, then striving to become ‘a great actor’ later
++
Look, the reason why I brought this up is that I really don’t think there’s a conflict in being recognised an AA actor and becoming a great actor at the same time.
Re: ‘color-blindness’
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Hollywood is addicted to the color “Green.”
Yes and No. Hollywood has a perception of what makes money and that means white male leads which prompted movies like Dragon Ball and Chun Li to have white leads – but it obviously didn’t help in the box office. And remember despite Smith’s very successful career, it still prompted him to speak out on how it’s uncomfortable for the producers to cast Cameron Diaz to be the female lead in Hitch (which arguably would rake in even more money in my view).
AA Women to pen a movie
It was an analogy to say that a lot of AFs simply don’t care about AA actors – Some do, but a large number doesn’t, same for AMs. And I think we can agree that AA actors don’t get enough support from the AA comunities.
Re: Daniel’s Hollywood career
I agree, given his track record in Asia, you would think that he would be treated closer to the Asian stars like Rain or Jay Chou. And not needing money to pay the bills mean he has a much better choice in what he wants to play than the average AA actor.
Regarding to not being known in APIA circle, I don’t really get it either. The only thing I can think off is that most of his work are in canto/mandarin, so people are not exposed to his work? I’m surprised by the lack of regonition as well.
re: Benefits of John Cho’s Appearance in AA indie films
I would hope that the producers casted John Cho in flash-forward because they saw his ability to act in serious roles like in West 32nd and not because of his more successful (in terms of box office) role as a stoner the Harold series. Daniel’s last indie would be Like a dream, right? Clara Law is a great director, glad he works with her a lot. But again, I only knew of this movie through my HK cinema roots rather than through APIA areas, so there’s definitely a missing link somewhere.
Regarding future:
Yep, you listed the poverty circle that is describes the situation rather well.
No AA support -> Perception that AA not marketable -> Non-AA support
And I agree that AA communities need to do more to break this circle. Hopefully youtube can expand the opportunities (like Ktwon cowboys, wong fu production stuff etc.)
P.S. Regarding the birthplace of Cho.
I don’t get how the place of birth have got to do with anything though. I’m a 1.5 Gen myself and the only big difference between me and other ABCs is that I went to a HK Kindergarten.
Re: If the alternative is an equally unproven/untrained white actor, why not?
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Acknowledging your words, I look forward to seeing you put up money and/or recommend your sources to put up money for any AA project. There is a project with an AA female writer who has written for Disney’s third highest-grossing film franchise that needs financing – will she receive your financial support.
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Serious and struggling White/Hispanic/Black actors are always seeking to be involved in any and all projects that serves as an example of how to have a chance to be successful.
Re: Daniel in HK
He didn’t go to HK (or back to HK) for a modeling job. He needed money and his sister (model herself) suggested a way to make money. Daniel worked hard for his first role by learning how to speak a languge he didn’t know – Cantonese. He sought all kinds of roles and indie/Canto films to work in.
Re: don’t think there’s a conflict in being recognised an AA actor and becoming a great actor at the same time.
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Serious folks just want to best actor, musician, accountant, engineer, etc.
Re: Will Smith / color of green
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The selection of Eva Mendez over Cameron Diaz was based on box office potential. Will Smith’s (along with others such as Denzil, Morgan, Samuel L Jackson – actor who has appeared in films that has outgrossed ANY other actor, etc.) success is because people will spend money to see him.
Re: It was an analogy to say that a lot of AFs simply don’t care about AA actors
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Looking forward to your evidence that they don’t care about “GOOD” AA actors.
Re: Daniel’s Hollywood career
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He has worked very hard to have the opportunity to better choose his roles – like any other hard-working actor of any color.
Re: Daniel and APIA circle
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APIA communities lack of support provides additional evidence on why Hollywood should not even listen to their voices and/or why actors should emphasize that they are APA actors.
re: Benefits of John Cho’s Appearance in AA indie films
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Reality is that he was given his opportunities mainly on his appearances in American films that showed that can/is a draw.
Re: Daniel’s last indie
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What is more noteworthy is that he used his participation and support to get the funding for this film – along others like Heavenly Kings. With Lucy Liu, Justin, Ken Watanabe and other like-minded actors needing money – that you’ve stated that would get for them – their projects remains unproduced.
Re: Regarding future
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Not much can be done about advancing APA actors through their communities if they provide no support or knowledge. Maybe this is the reason why working Hollywood AA executives don’t do AA projects.
Denzil/Spike/Samuel L./Morgan/Will Smith/ etc. all received support from the black communities because they are “Good/Great” actors – Period.
@usasians
Sure, if my career ever gets to the stage where I can afford to invest $1 Mil, I will be honored. And hopefully by then (20 years down the track if I’m lucky?), people like yourself with a greater knowledge of the issues (which I acknowledge) and a large social circle whch include a lot of rich, successful types (which my circle does not) would make the environment for AA actors and actresses a lot better than what we see today.
Meanwhile, I will support them in the way an everyday person would, which is to purchase DVDs of well-made AA movies like Children of Invention, Finishing the game (which all my mates think it’s an all time classic) etc. Watch and click on the ads of well-made Youtube shows like Ktown Cowboys etc. (For me, youtube could be the medium that gives a lot more coverage and experience to AA actors).
Re: Will Smith / color of green
Mendez has more marketability than Diaz? And what prompted Will Smith, who is arguably the most successful POC actor to speak out?
- Looking forward to your evidence that they don’t care about “GOOD” AA actors.
I showed around 40 odd AFs (and 10 AMs or so) a screening of the Protege (church group) to try to show that once they are given the opportunity, there are talented (and hot) AA actors. My questionaire was who did they think was a better actor, and who was the ‘hotter’ actor – Daniel or Michael Cera (the group screening the week before was ‘Juno”). More than half ticked both boxes in favor of Mr. Cera. I have no problem if they chose Johnny Depp over Daniel, but Michael Cera? And in terms of ‘hotness’?
Re: if my career ever
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The indie and Hollywood producers/actors/directors go past the many “ifs” (talk) to get things done with the people they want – White, Black, Hispanic, Jewish, Irish, Muslim or Asian. Justin Lin tapped out his credit cards and other sources to get his film made. Daniel utilized his status as a celebrity to get distribution and financing. Appreciate your (along with all others) expressing your/their well-intentioned words. Look forward to your efforts in tapping into your many resources to provide the financial means to get noteworthy AA projects made. It is amazing what changes occur when actually monies/commitments are made.
Re: Will Smith / color of green
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He was expressing his opinion. If he didn’t agree with the choice, the movie wouldn’t have been made. Will Smith made his choice in his Karate Kid remake that his son (Jaden) should be the star (despite having few credits) because he was financing the movie. The “Power of Green” was exhibited again.
Re: “Hot” AA Actors
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There are countless actors of every color who would be successful if “given the opportunity” – it is the reality of Hollywood and the entertainment industry. Since it is a proven axiom that “success is the residue of good design” – it is sad that a great number of AA actors don’t have the desire to do what is necessary to be a good actor.
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My question is submitted again, which qualified and talented APA actors deserve a chance?
I hope that your appreciated sense of advocacy would quickly morphed into gathering enough tangible financial resources to support AA projects/actors that need to be produced.