Thank you to RiceDaddy blogmaster Jason, who podcasted, facebooked, and blogged the NPR conversation above (Go directly to NPR here if the above video doesn’t load). It’s a discussion with three dads about whether being a dad makes a guy happier or not. It’s an extension of the conversation initiated by this article in New York Magazine: All Joy and No Fun: Why Parents Hate Parenting. According to the article, parents think that they’re happier because they decided to have kids, but in reality they’re not. There’s no correlation between kids and happiness, unless people have more than one kid, in which case they tend to be unhappier than people without kids.
The podcast is good, and they have a broad spectrum of dads–a Black dad, a White dad, and Jason, the Asian dad. I thought they could’ve picked a better choice than the guy with the seven month old; he’s only been a dad for seven months–of course he’s only going to have positive things to say! At seven months, they cry, they eat, they sleep. What is there to complain about? Age one, they can now run away from you. Age two, they throw tantrums. Age three, they talk back and fight with you and tell you they don’t like you. At age 4, they develop Columbo skills when questioning you and pointing out unfairness. I don’t even want to know what they do at age 14. If there is unhappiness that comes from parenting, I’m positive that most people don’t experience it in the first year, or even the second year. I think NPR should’ve diversified across their children’s ages, as well as race.
Other than that, it was a great podcast. The moderator did very well, and I thought she brought up great points. I liked Jason’s comments, and I was envious of the hours that he and his wife have to spend with family. The dad with the seven year old is funny, although he would’ve gotten slammed on the 44s for making that statement about men being providers. 
(I wouldn’t slam him though because I agree–to a certain extent.)
My views on the article? I agree with it and think it’s a great article. I don’t think parenting is correlated with happiness. And I can see how it can create unhappiness. I totally sympathized with the woman on page 4 of the New York Mag article who is too tired to have interesting conversations after child care. And the financial pressures–diapers, schooling, daycare, food, clothing–are enormous.
Don’t get me wrong–I love my kids, and I wouldn’t trade this life for anything else. The happiest days of my life were when my two kids were born. I think kids deepen one’s experience and understanding, and children can be man’s greatest teachers. Children can help one to learn more about life, and I think they deepen one’s understanding of humanity. But I think happiness exists wherever one makes it, and sometimes it rests beyond one’s control.
Think about it. Is Rudy Giuliani happy that his son told the press that he would never vote for his father? Is Dick Cheney happy that his daughter prefers women and therefore distances him from the rest of Republican party? What about the parents of Kyron Horman who disappeared nearly a month ago? I’m not saying that these parents would have chosen differently; but I’m saying that happiness doesn’t necessarily come from kids. Add to that the facts (mentioned in the article) that raising kids is often more about changing clothing, feeding, and driving to piano lessons, and it’s clear that there’s quite a bit of work in parenthood. Kids and family happens to be one path. It could be the right path for you, or it might not be. People should never feel pressure to have kids because there’s a whole world out there with different lifestyles that could work just as well, depending on who you are.
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But here is an...
::TZ snaps:: WHY IS EVERYBODY TALKING ABOUT BABIES! GO AWAY.. GO AWAYYYY….
Sorry. Totally personal context there. I’m Asian. Female. Married, hitting 30. Haven’t had babies yet. Have Asian parents. Have Asian parents-in-law. Just take a guess what’s going on.
Haha! You can send them this article and say, “Hey, it ain’t gonna make you any happier!” Hmm…but then again, I suppose no one in the article tested grandparent happiness. In that case, you can say, “Hey, it ain’t gonna make ME any happier!” Do Asian parents care about that sort o’ thing?
I don’t know if kids make their parents happy but they sure make me happy. I love to play with my married friends’s children. Hannah is five and she is the most cutest, adorable child one has ever laid eyes on. Whenever I say “bang-goo po-po” (the “fart kiss”, my invention) she gets that look on her face that I call the “laughing smile of protest”, yells, and runs away. Both her parents have that perpetually tired look whenever I visit them. The kids, they have two daughters, are starved for lack of play because their parents hardly ever play with them. So that’s where I come in. It’s quite a workout. I throw them and turn them upside down and swing em by the legs. Some parents get somewhat terrorized by my rough antics, the mom eyeing me anxiously as I am throwing her child almost to the ceiling and catching him or her. If you want your kids go to bed on time, you have to tire them out.
I think counting on anybody, whether it’s your parents, spouse, or even children to make you happy will result in heartbreak sooner or later. On the other hand, these people will challenge you and teach you about yourself more than any other. And if you see this as the opportunity for growth, then you will never stop learning and never stop growing for the rest of your life. I think that’s a good thing. Giuliani and Cheney are lucky to have such children (although they deserve some credit as fathers). Nothing challenges your beliefs like seeing the opposing viewpoints in those you love.
TZ- Ahhahaha….come on, your loving Asian parents sacrificed sooooo much for you, and all they want in return is just a few grandchildren. Just a few….hundred.
Kobukson- I love kids, too! Other people’s kids, that is. I can play with them all day long and never worry about changing a diaper or chasing them around or bathing them or feeding them. They make great toys to borrow and return when you’re done.
Well my kid is at 5 months, and I can say that I enjoy work so much more. Work is my vacation from the home. I enjoy my time with my daughter, but a lot of that time is work and at this stage it’s very repetitive. My wife described it as like being in a situation like Groundhog Day (the Bill Murray movie), but it’s compressed into a 4 hour cycle:
Baby wakes up,
feed baby,
burp baby,
play with baby,
change diaper,
put baby to sleep,
repeat.
We knew before deciding to make a baby that Happiness is not tied to children and that it’s been shown to detract from one’s happiness.
So why do people have babies?
I think happiness is very different from being complete and fulfilled. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with you if you don’t have no children. There’s plenty of people in the world, and too many people who shouldn’t become parents… become parents.
But I think you grow and develop much more as a person when you have children. Of course they’re aging the fuck out of you as well. Happiness is a legitimate goal, but if it were one’s only goal in life, then one would avoid adversities such as parenting, which build character.
@TZ,
At first my wife and I didn’t plan on having kids, and my mom nagged for us for years to get crackin’ on the baby making. Then she gave up the nagging, and my wife and I decided, “Let’s have a kid!”
So you never know what the future will bring. You know what’s best for you and your hubby. I spoke to a female coworker who was debating on whether or not to have a kid. I told her, “Whichever choice you make, it’ll be the right one.”
Nice post! This is my first visit–saw your comments on Rice Daddies. I also wrote a response to the Senior piece and the NPR show on Daddy dialectic. Here’s a link
http://daddy-dialectic.blogspot.com/2010/07/why-working-parents-hate-life.html
I love the idea of studying the happiness of grandparents. Maybe that’s the missing link–where we finally get the payoff!
I’ve no experience in being a father, I have no children of my own, but I am a godfather to a niece and nephew and I try to be a good uncle to the nephews and niece. Just as an observer, it seems that when you have kids, it’s no longer about you and your spouse. Your lives are all about the kids now. You are now responsible with guiding these young souls thru the journey of life until they become independent.
The happiness you get is seeing YOUR kids accomplish things, in enjoying their unique personalities and talents. You’re happy when they are happy. You’re sad when your kids are unhappy and struggling with life’s pit falls.
Just my two cents as an uncle and observer.
Alpha,
I totally agree. I know lots of people who succumb to the pressure/promises of kids being some kind of solution to all sorts of problems, and I want to tell them that it doesn’t work that way. As everyone on this board seems to agree, kids are lots of fun! It’s very different when childcare is your job–and for every parent, it IS your job. And yes, I think they make you older.
Beta Dad,
Nice to meet you! I checked out your blog too. You raise some really good points, and I agree that it’s different between working parents and parents who stay home with kids. Life is very different without the financial/work pressure of needing two jobs!
@ Leon: I love other people’s kids too but I’m not so good with them. At a company function I once asked a 6 year old, “What is your ambition?” The kid didn’t know what “ambition” was. What would you like to achieve in this lifetime, kid? What are your personal goals? What do you want to accomplish? Have you plotted out your milestones? When the kid said, “I don’t think I have an ambition,” I looked gravely concerned and said back, “Oh, but you must have ambitions, any ambition at all will do. You must.” The parent swooped in, rescued her kid, and glared at me. Yikes. Was that an inappropriate question to ask a 6 year old? I didn’t know.
@ Alpha Asian: My problem is I want everything. I want to have my cake and eat it too. I have so much left on my to-do list to accomplish, and everyone says that to-do list goes out the window once you have babies. I don’t want to throw out my to-do list. I also don’t want to be 50 and attending my kid’s Kindergarten graduation and have 20-something year old parents come up to me saying, “Oh you must be so proud of your grandchild!” Also, I have a feeling I’ll become one of those neurotic moms that run the PTA and lord over bake sales like we’re prepping for war or a hostile takeover when no really, it’s just a bake sale.
I’ll probably end up treating parenting like corporate governance.