Where the Black Man is King/FlashForward's IR pairing

Zoey and Demetri from FlashForward

Zoey and Demetri from FlashForward

Neutral Observer asked me to comment on Gabrielle Union and John Cho’s onscreen romance on FlashForward.  He writes:

Asian male bloggers have long compared their dating plight to that of black women, and have long said that maybe they need to expand their dating pool outside the asian female sphere.
Seems, at least on TV, we’re getting a dramatization of this “solution.”
Combine that with how this is a pushing back against the media’s systematic “de-sexualization” of the asian man’s image, and I’m doubly curious to get your thoughts on this.

I took a brief look around the sphere.  Most bloggers think that this is a good thing–that black women and Asian men have historically been underrepresented in romantic roles, and that since black women and Asian men, as a group, seem to have the least sexual/social capital, that perhaps it’s good for the media to encourage them to date.

I think in general I’d agree. It’s hard enough to find someone compatible regardless of race, and if the media can open people up to different possibilities, I think it’s a good thing.  I like the Cho/Union union.  (And I loved Gabrielle’s confusion of the wedding and the funeral…I suspended disbelief because it was that cool–what other family events have the pull of weddings and funerals?)   But I do have another perspective, which I’ll explain with a real life story:

In Portland, there is a diversity networking group that I attended a few years back.  The group meets once a month, and the purpose of the meeting is to welcome new folk to Portland and to get minorities doing business with minorities.  Since I think it’s important for minorities to own homes (and since I’m in the home business), I began attending.  Here’s what happened:

Even though it’s a “diversity” group, most of the people there are black.  Most are young-to-middle-aged black women, with a smattering of White folk, Asian folk, and black men.  I would go there, talk to them about what I did for a living, and learn about what they do.  The black women, in general, were polite, intelligent, and enthusiastic about business.

HOWEVER, something kept happening over and over again.  I’d be standing there, talking to either a black woman or a group of black women, when all of a sudden, a black man would come into view.  Most of the black men in this group are older and successful, and the minute a black man appeared, I would completely disappear in the eyes of any black woman with whom I was having a conversation.  It would be like:

Byron: So what I was saying, Beth, is that we really need to increase minority homeownership because I think…

Beth: Okay, nice talking to you.  [turns away from me to face the black guy]  Hey!  Excuse me!  I don’t think we’ve met.  My name is Beth, and I own my own company.  I haven’t seen you around here.

Black guy: My name is Frank.

Susan: Uh, I don’t think we’ve met either.  Excuse me, Beth.  Hi Frank, I’m Susan.  So what do you do, Frank?

Mary: And I’m Mary.  So nice to meet you!

Byron: And uh…I’m By…

Frank: So what’s good about Portland, ladies?

All the women: So we’ve got a transplant!  Let us tell you about this city.

This happened over and over and over, almost every time I attended.  I think that like me, most of these black guys were married (many relocated with their families), but their presence in a roomful of black women negated the presence of all other people.  I had another Asian guy friend who attended with me, and he said that he had the exact same experience.  Once one of these black guys walked in, any African American woman in my presence would immediately drop what she was doing, gently scoot me out of the way, and start chatting up the black guy.  From a business perspective, it made no sense for me to be there.  (well, if I were smarter, I probably would’ve partnered with one of these guys…hmm…)  I’d have a better chance chilling with Thurston Howell at the business version of Skull and Bones.  So I eventually stopped going.

I realize it’s the Black Female Marriage issue is a big one (notice how the letter writer actually puts Asian women above White women on the attractiveness scale), and I’ve blogged about it before.  In no way do I mean to criticize these women for following their instincts; when I was in college, I’d forget everything when an attractive woman walked by (although I don’t think I ever cut anyone off mid-sentence because of it…but who knows?  Things look different when you’re in the throes of attraction!).  I’m also not hurt that they have this preference, even though I wish I could’ve done some business there.  But that’s the way things are.  I imagine it would probably be similar for a black woman attending a meeting with mostly Asian people–Asian guys probably drop everything when seeing a single Asian woman come by.  That’s the nature of this IR disparity–it creates power imbalances, and I don’t fault anyone for reacting to it the way they do.

This raises an issue that is pertinent to this blog post: In the land of plentiful single black women, the black man is king.  Conversely, in the land of plentiful single Asian men, the Asian woman is queen.  While there may be some Asian guys and Black women who feel the love (see the short fictional film below, linked from here), it’s probably pretty rare.


A majority of black women will prefer their own.

My point is not to discourage IR pairings. Indeed, I think we should see more of it. I agree with other bloggers, and I happen to know some Asian guys who strongly prefer black women and who are going crazy over these new portrayals.  It’s a good thing.  But looking at how people really behave in terms of their dating preferences, we would see much more explosive passion in mass audiences if the media provided what the majority are looking for: BM/BF for black women, and AM/AF for Asian men. In the case of Asian men, even though AM/AF is comparatively rare, it would speak more to most of our collective experiences. There could be a lot of audience buy-in. It’s the same thing with black women, which is why Waiting to Exhale and anything written by Eric Jerome Dickey have outsold anything made with BF/AM.

Yes, I know, in this case I’m following audience demand rather than creating something new.  But in this case, could there be something good in listening to the people?

What do you think?

47 thoughts on “Where the Black Man is King/FlashForward's IR pairing

  1. Dammit Byron, you did it again. You made me write another sermon! How do you keep bringing these out of me? I SWEAR this is the last time I’ll hi-jack your blog to discuss non-directly Asian subjects/issues.

    First of all your experience at the workshop doesn’t surprise me, though it does disgust me, because I experienced it it too until I stopped bothering with black women. I’ve endured the insults, angry looks and personal attacks from BW and they’ve been legion. Well, no matter what BW may want you to believe about men like me, I haven’t “sold-out,” I simply gave up.
    Black men are not trying to be cruel or sarcastic when we tell black women “Go ahead! Make good on your ‘threat’ to abandon us and go pursue non-black men. We will help you do so! We DARE you to!”
    We’re not. The problem is that black women really are seen as less desirable than black men, but they’ve never bothered to ask themselves why. We as black men know why, and you’ve seen it too.

    And speaking as a black man, you can’t be “king” of a madhouse, which is what too many relationships/marriages with black women turn out to be. No, you can’t snap your fingers and get BW to fawn for you, but there’s a reason for that. Black women aren’t “desperate” for a man. What they are desperate for is a man who will put up with their shit without complaint. But they don’t want just any man whom they can treat like their own persaonl toilet. Only a BLACK man will do!
    They are running a con-game when they say they can’t find/get a man and a lot of people have fallen for it.

    I probably shouldn’t be saying this outside of an Afr Amer forum, but the cat’s halfway out of the bag, so what the hell.
    What you saw and keep seeing is why 70% of black women are single, why black men make no attempt to stick up for them when that sorry statistic is repeated and why they will remain single. It would require a whole book to explain all the ways black women screw themselves up, but I’ll stick to addressing your episode at the diversity workshop.
    I say this knowing that you’ve also run into this wall with black women in other places, but trust me, here’s why it happened.
    Black women’s brains are on auto-pilot. They’ve made a cottage-industry out of chasing bullshit. They have become the living definition of “insanity.” Doing the same thing over and over, yet expecting –nay, demanding!– a different result.

    A black man who’s successful is pretty much out of the question for most black women, and they know it. They may have a roll in the hay, but black women will ineveitably screw it up before long. It’s their attitude and their money-hungry ways you see. They can’t help themselves.
    It’s insanity for black women to continue smiling in black men’s faces when we BOTH know how it will end: she’ll be screaming about how he can’t handle a “strong” woman, and he’ll be screaming that all she cares about is “what’s in it for her”, and how he never should have stopped dating white women.
    But still they (black women) try.

    It’s impossible to know precisely what those hens were thinking, but I can make a pretty good guess. They had your number from the start. They saw you as a financially stable non-black man who is looking to network. You offer pleasant conversation, goal-oriented, yadda, yadda, yadda. Problem is that’s not what’s at the top of the totem pole of black women’s desired traits in a man. They want a “challenge.”
    And we ALL know women’s satanic definition of that term.

    Black women have a 70% single rate because they’ve made a culture of chosing losers as some expression of sexual independence. The “good” guys get ignored until they either “make it” or the women have been dumped by all the “playas” they used to run with and are too fat, old, etc to be as hot as they were before.

    Black women have developed a practice of using rampant sex to get things from men. And this is not merely a habit among the “hood rats.” This is a habit among ALL black women, college-educated or not, professional or not, accomplished or not. This isn’t about ghetto or suburban, this is about the internal culture of black females as a whole. They do it because it’s the only trick they know.

    I and a group of other black men came across an interesting fact. We realized that the 50-plus% of black women who have children out of wedlock usually have ALL had sex with the same small handful of worthless men. Worse than that, the 10-15 percent of black men who are in and out of the judicial system make up over 40% of the absentee fathers. “Thugs,” “playas” “smooth-talkers,” and guys more interested in perfecting their pick-up lines than their financial status. This is what black women have made a culture of choosing.
    This is why they found it so easy to ignore you on the instant. They would MUCH rather dogpile some black guy and repeat the ritual of getting dumped, then later on carp about how they “probably” couldn’t get a non-black man, than to get with you, piss you off, have you dump them, and PROVE it.

    Compared to this you’re much better off trying to re-orient Asian women away from their social/media fantasies of caucasian-romantic bliss.

    And whomever that guy is/was he knows the score already, and is merely fulfilling his role in a play whose ending is as predictable as a soap opera. He’s unmarried, financially stable, with no kids and all those women probably had a gang of crumb-snatchers at home.
    Whichever one is the most successful at making bedroom eyes at him will be able to brag about having him as her “boo,”… for all of the five minutes it will take him to get tired of her attitude, constant golddigging and inability to care about his needs.
    And then they’ll be back at the diversity workshop looking for another sucker.

    Black women are on their best behavior with non-black men because they have to be, NOT because they want to be. If any of those broads hooked up with you they know from the jump that the “attitude” they’re so used to packing would have to go. If a black woman has a choice between having a man, but not being able to indulge her shit-smelling attitude, and staying single…well, you know which choice they’re going to make.

    The ONLY thing to be lamented here is that perhaps they, or someone they knew, genuinely wanted/needed your services. But considering that they wasted your time it’s for the best that you dropped them.
    As a Japanese businessman once said, “A customer who steals from you isn’t a customer, he’s a thief!”

    Anyways, thanks for sharing your thoughts about Cho. Let’s hope it’s the beginning of a trend anyway.

  2. I may or may not know what Jaehwan is talking about. This is one of those “you know it when you see it” type things, when, even if you can’t articulate something, you know that SOMETHING is there. I’m glad Jaehwan shared his reservations because I, as I imagine many people did, felt that something just wasn’t quite right with the Gabrielle Union/John Cho relationship. It was good, and it was close to what we wanted, but it just wasn’t quite there. Maybe we couldn’t explain why, but we did feel something was off. I will attempt to discuss a possible reason.

    We should first recognize that this is a very big step in the right direction. Most of this is right, and we shouldn’t look a gift horse in the mouth. Nevertheless, what might be making us feel a little off is that it feels a touch gimmicky. This relationship too much exemplifies a fantasy, something everyone watching knows doesn’t really happen in real life, which is why we’re watching it on TV. We can be entertained by it, but we can’t really internalize it, because we all know what reality is.

    Unlike other media pairings, I think the racial composition of this one was more conscious. This Lost-y type show wanted a similar international cast, the interracial relationship (Bernard and Ruth), and one-upped Lost. Did the writers sit down and really plan it that way? Maybe, maybe not, but it does not feel random or natural. It feels a little forced, and I think that’s why it’s a little bothersome. It’s like people sat down and said, “Alright, here’s one unloved group, here’s another unloved group, let’s put them together because it will be different and unique.” We’re bordering on novelty, commodity.

    The only analogy I can think of was when Pat Buchanon (sp?) chose an African American woman as his presidential running mate. While it was a step in the right direction in many ways, it still didn’t feel quite right for many of the same reasons. It was a gimmick, something that was formal but not necessarily to be taken completely seriously. We liked what we saw, but we couldn’t like it without reservation, because ultimately we knew it wasn’t totally real. It was forced, and that didn’t taste right to us.

    Ultimately, in both examples, the power structure is not broken, and I think that’s why we’re hesitant to embrace this relationship. In both cases, power still resides with white males who create something novel and force us to consume it. Just because what we’re being fed might appear to be appetizing does not negate the fact that we’re being fed by a dominant hand. It controls us, and if it wants to play with us a little bit, regardless of how benevolently, it will, and does. And we sense that. We want to believe what we’re seeing, but we can’t because we know it’s being dangled in front of us like a shiny object. It’s a fun distraction, a curiosity. That’s what our plight is to those who have power — curious. It’s fun to parade John Cho around with Gabrielle Union. It’s distracting to select an African American woman as a running mate, especially when we both know she and her running mate have no chance of winning. It’s never serious, and we’re pissed that it’s not.

    What we want to see is that power in our hands. Give us back something that’s been taken from us. Give John Cho a hot Asian chick that leaves her white boyfriend for him. Or better yet, give John Cho a universally recognized hot white chick that we’ve been told we can never have. All of a sudden, the dominant hand is no longer dominant, because it can’t spoon feed us condescendingly while it’s in bed with John Cho. Only then will the power structure be disrupted, and that’s when we will know that SOMETHING is right.

  3. You know, I have known Black male/Asian female pairing and marriages, but never have I known an Asian male/ Black female couple. I look forward to the Cho/Union movie.

    Jae, I think we need to have dating for geeks/nerds and other generally good people. Actually, I am trying to think of a way to suggest it to my friends. There are dating site for professionals.

    I know I had a difficult time dating guys I was interested in because good guys that interested me were too shy to ask me out because I did not flirt with them. We all have anedcotal stories about this bad relationship and that one adn wonder why this guy or gal isn’t dating. Well, as several people have pointed out, it seems the wrong people are dating the right people and the right people don’t recognize each other.

  4. “Nevertheless, what might be making us feel a little off is that it feels a touch gimmicky. This relationship too much exemplifies a fantasy, something everyone watching knows doesn’t really happen in real life”

    I don’t know… how many of us thought the same thing when Morgan Freeman played the Black President in Deep Impact (yeah right!). Media is often the medium for test driving the unlikely, and advancing the possible. It can lower the resistance to challenging intrenched social norms.

    If we never entertain that which is unlikely, it will never become likely.

  5. Neutral, I think that you and Byron are saying two totally different things. Byron was talking about his experiences about how Black women favored Black men in a particular social setting.

    But you have taken off on your usual manifesto against the Black Bogey Woman. There is no possible way that you could know how many women of African descent date “Thugs.” Where exactly is that survey? Where are the bar charts on Black women who employ “rampant sex” to get things from black men? Was that from the Pew Research Center? How does this compare to the control group of survey results of the women of other ethnicities?

    Without any real research, all you have to go in is your own personal experience, and what you may get from your friends and/or the internet. But those observations are statistically miniscule compared to the entire population of millions that you’re talking about.

    This entire diatribe is a big fat canard of the first order, and serves as yet another excuse for you to rewrite a long post that is essentially the same damn post that you keep rewriting again and again in hopes of getting a different result. (see it works both ways).

    If you really have this much animosity against Black women, then maybe you should address it in therapy. You clearly seem to be agitated over the whole thing. I’m not sure what the source is—bad relationship, bad divorce, or mother issues? Whatever it is, you might want to deal with it in a more clinical setting. You always sound angry and irrational on this particular issue.

  6. Thanks, everyone!


    I think there are two kinds of guys. There are the roll-in-the-hay types, and then there are the ones who are looking for marriage. One doesn’t necessarily have to be one or the other, and in fact, one’s identity can change throughout the years, depending on what one is looking for and at what stage he finds himself.

    So it sounds to me like you’ve been on the other side of this. What does it feel like? I imagine it might be good when you’re young, but maybe not quite as good when you get older? Would you say this is correct?

    As for me, if I remember correctly, I kind of felt slighted when it first happened. After the second time, I was kind of applauding them for going after what they wanted. After a third time, I kicked myself and said, “There aren’t any customers here” and left. 🙂


    I could do a dating for geeks thing. The thing is that like the roll-in-the-hay vs. marriage type of question, I think the style changes with age. We’d have to think about how accomplished geeks’s interactions are different from geeks in training.

    Etain and King:

    Etain, I think you said it really well. I agree with you that it feel gimmicky. It feels like, “Oh, let’s just push this.” It doesn’t feel real. It doesn’t look like a real relationship–just like a made-for-TV type of thing.

    Your reference to Lost made me think about how that story developed. I dropped off the show a long time ago (yes, I know I’m the only one), but I think DDK and Yunjin Kim actually make each other more beautiful, and maybe it’s because I somewhat relate to the aspects of the story. I LOVED that old shot of them in Korea, and how they met. Maybe it has something to do with my ability to relate to the story as someone married to an Asian person (although my wife and I met here, not in Korea).

    I agree with King–and I think Etain, you do too–that it does push boundaries and makes things seem more acceptable, which can help these relationships happen in real life. This is why I think that these relationships, such as the Cho/Union union, are good to push. There probably is a difference in how it’s portrayed. Maybe we ought to dissect this.

    For example, does anyone remember Save the Last Dance? I thought that was a great portrayal of IR since there was depth in the relationship that revolved around dancing. I could see it happening. It was also realistic in how it portrayed the community being against it.

    The Bodyguard also wasn’t bad. It felt real. I also know only a few of these in real life, but I thought it accurately portrayed what could have happened, and it did so with relative depth.

    As for Asian women and White guys, that’s by far the most common Asian relationship that I see. Most of my Asian gal friends are married to or dating White guys. Still, I’ve not seen it portrayed well on screen or in literature. I’m not sure why. I think maybe it has something to do with the fact that we Asian people question the status quo but rarely raise our voices to say what it is that we’re feeling. Or maybe we don’t know what it is that we’re feeling. So in many ways, it feels like we’re stuck.

    What is surprising–and I thought about this yesterday–is that I feel much the same way about Asian guys/White women in the media. Virtually ALL Asian American female writers are married to White guys, and ALMOST ALL Asian American male writers are married to White women. Yet, for whatever reason, it doesn’t get portrayed well. The only really good portrayal I’ve read is David Mura’s Where the Body Meets Memory. And that probably wasn’t as positive as it could have been.

    It’s a bit hard for me to imagine what a ChUnion looks like because like AG said, these are few and far between. Let’s see…I know exactly three of these ChUnions. One Asian guy I know dated a black woman, then broke up, and is now in a long term relationship with someone else. One Asian guy I know is a serial dater who is into black women, and changes s.o.’s ever few years. One Asian guy I know (but rarely see, since he lives far away) is dating a black woman long term. Then I probably know a few who like black women but don’t have the opportunity to meet one.

    I think we all agree that this is a positive step. I wonder though if something more has to be done. In the case of FlashForward, it seems that the writer based the ChUnion on his ability to change things up, rather than by seeing what it looks like in real life. I think there would probably be far more social implications for the players involved. Lost did the WM/BF thing well because the shock value was clearly intended, and those two were minor characters. In this case, though, we have a major character, and the relationships just….begs for so many more questions.

    Okay, now I’ve written a sermon….

  7. Oops, cross posted with King.

    Just to clarify, Neutral, you’re saying that there’s a black preference among black women, but that it leads men and women down a hard path?

    Blogging makes one aware of one’s ignorance. Even though I brought up Eric Jerome Dickey, I’ve never actually read anything by him. I need to do that. Speaking of media portrayals, I thought Zora Neale Hurston did a pretty good job of describing relationships (even though somewhat disfunctional), and I thought Malcolm X’s biography did a pretty good job, even though he was conservative and religious.

    By the way, I took an African literature class in college and read Maryse Conde’s “Segu” and Bessie Head’s “When Rain Clouds Gather.” If there are pathologies among African American men and women, there are probably fewer pathologies between African men and women, even though those too exist. I think it’s the same for Asian Americans/Asian Asians.

  8. Oh I absolutely agree this is a good thing 🙂 Like I said, this is much more wrong than it is right.

    And I do agree with King that media pushing the envelope can be very beneficial and constructive. However, I do believe this is slightly different than the Morgan Freeman presidential portrayal in deep impact.

    I did believe that his role was slightly gimmicky as well, but maybe more importantly it directly challenged the power structure, whereas the Cho/Union relationship does not. White patriarchal power relegated black men to lesser social and political standing. Morgan Freeman’s role as president took that power back, at least for two hours.

    The Cho/Union relationship differs in that respect because the power structure remains in tact. Instead of saying, “Here, take some of what’s been ripped away from you,” as would be exemplified by giving Cho an Asian girl sought after by whites, giving Union a black man sought after by whites, or giving them white partners, they are given… each other. It’s like, “We don’t really want either of you, so just have each other. We’ll keep what we have, and still make sure you don’t have any of it.” Nothing really changed. The power structure remains in tact, as it was before.

    But, as I said previously, definitely a couple big steps in the right direction 🙂

  9. Asian men dating black women? And act of desperation. You know that your parents will kick you out of the family if you bring home a black woman.
    Fake weaves and wagging fingers with plenty of attitude. I would only date Beyonce more then any other black woman.

  10. Siggy,

    Can you remind me again why we keep you here? Usually I think it’s for entertainment, but when you spout your racist stereotypes like that, you lose your entertainment value.


    I’ve got some thoughts about the White woman thing. I’ll share later.

  11. Sigfried. NO woman of ANY color would want you!
    And the only family that might let you in their home is the Manson family.

    So go back to hiding out in the bathroom with the latest issue of Vibe. That’s the closest to Beyonce you’ll get.

  12. Checking in and trying to get caught up, super busy at work, but hopefully things will wind down a bit.

    A few thoughts:

    1. I agree with King’s statement: “Media is often the medium for test driving the unlikely, and advancing the possible. It can lower the resistance to challenging intrenched social norms.”

    The more things like this pairing up are seen, the more socially accepted it becomes. You can see this with the gay/lesbian community: the images and portrayals have changed and in doing so, it reinforces the point that they are human beings too.

    2. Whenever something negative happens, the blogosphere is quick to shout about letter writing campaigns and what not to voice our displeasure. But what about when something is a step in the right direction? Does anyone ever write or call in and say, “hey, I really liked that episode about x,y, and z; it was good attempt at a true depiction, etc…”. I was thinking that if we don’t give our voice of approval for when Hollywood does something right, how will they ever get sensitized to know what’s good or bad media portrayals of Asian Americans?

    Granted, we’re not responsible for educating them out of their ignorance, but in some ways, maybe we are. If letter campaigns and all can influence things for all the negative shit we see, can’t it influence things for the right kinds of portrayals and maybe produce more storylines with greater sensitivity? Don’t producers and studio execs perk up? I’m curious to know what others think….

    As for the black women’s issues with marriage and dating and how they use sex as bait, etc….doesn’t it really depend on the type of person you’re dealing with? It seems like too broad of a generalization.

  13. Welcome back Mojo, and good points.

    I agree with you that both the use of the stick AND the carrot are necessary in changing behavior. If all you ever do is complain, your adversaries will soon learn to simply tune you out as someone impossible to please.

  14. I think we should definitely give them encouragement. I’m all for it and not just for Flash Forward. I kind of wish that I had written a letter to CBS to show my support for them casting Daniel Henney. Sure the show was mediocre, but it would let the studio execs know that it was great to see an Asian American actor as a co-lead and portraying something other than the stereotype, that we appreciated seeing that diversity included AA’s and depicted realistic portrayals.

    I also think it might let them know that we’re watching and taking notice of how you portray us. But is it better to write individually or to also write as a part of an organization or something? Randomn letters or something on behalf of a a group, a blog, or a coalition of bloggers? what has more impact?

  15. Maybe as individuals. Not all bloggers like the show (although I do). If MANAA sent them a letter, that would hold some weight. Maybe I’ll give it a shot.

  16. Hmm, this thread seemed to have been very prescient. From today’s Wash Post:

    Single Black Women Being Urged to Date Outside Race

    “Black women are in market failure,” says writer Karyn Langhorne Folan. “The solution is to find a new market for your commodity. And in this case, we are the commodity and the new market is men of other races.”

    ….”By promoting interracial love for some black women, Folan explains that she is not suggesting that there aren’t any good, single black men out there, or that every educated single black woman will not find an educated black mate. She is not bashing all black men or implying that all black women are aiming for the altar. The writer, mom and Harvard-educated lawyer says that she is just offering a reasonable solution to the shortage of available black men.

    “Consider your options,” she says. Expand your horizons. Stop listening to your girlfriends. Forget about the brothers calling you a sellout….”

    “Folan says such judgmental attitudes are rooted in “the myth of one voice,” as though all black people think the same, talk the same, want the same thing when, in reality, diversity is great within the race. “Black people are not a monolith, and one voice is a myth, and yet some black folks still seem certain that they know who has ‘stayed black’ and who has ‘sold out,’ ” Folan says. ”

    Seems like some of this could apply to some AA males perhaps?


  17. jaehwan, bloggers don’t have to like the show, do they? they just have to like how an AA person is portrayed. Hell, I haven’t even managed to catch the show outside of the first episode, so I’m already behind in the story!

    True, MANAA would have some clout. Regardless, letting them know we like a fully dimensional AA characters, not a stereotypical asexual male or hypersexual female, might influence their thinking perhaps?

  18. Holy shit, that was the most viewed article on WaPo today. This was my favorite part:

    After they entered the official “relationship” stage she began to notice the stares. “Once, as we strolled together after a lovely dinner in Baltimore, a car full of black men honked at us. ‘Come back, sister!’ one of them yelled out of the window. ‘Come back!’ ”

    Man, if I did that for all of my “sisters” on the other side, I wouldn’t have a voice left!

    Maybe we should wait for FlashForward to come back (I think next month), and then we can write them and maybe ask MANAA to get involved.

  19. I’m not very familiar with the specific dynamics, but why is it not hypocritical for black men to criticize black women for interracially dating when they themselves interracially marry, and presumably interracially date, at much higher rates?

    If an Asian woman ever criticized me for dating interracially I’d literally stop traffic and tell everyone within shouting distance what just happened just so they could all point at her and laugh.

  20. Agreed, it’s hypocrital and moronic. But I suppose that most groups are protective of their females, a double standard. Notice how she recounted that the family would tell her, “don’t you come home with a white guy” but did they say the same thing to the black men in the family? “Don’t you bring a white girl home!”

    Again, she makes a great point in that black people are not a monolith. The same goes for AA’s, we all have varied backgrounds and experiences. I liked the article because it reinforces the notion that one cannot put one’s life on hold waiting for something to materialize. Life doesn’t wait, time doesn’t wait. For some of us, we might have to be more open to other possibilities. so take your happiness where you can. Otherwise, life is gonna pass you by.

  21. Looks like this show is canceled, along with Ghost Whisperer. Hopefully there will be another opportunity for John Cho.

  22. Pingback: The Asian Female Celebrity Club (AFCC) Embargo « big WOWO

  23. To WOWO:

    I was sadden to hear about your experiences with those women from your diversity group. Appearently, they were part of the nothing but a bm group, blessed them because they are going to need all the blessings they can get.

    As an AA woman married to an Asian man I can tell you the vast majority of what Neutral Observer stated is false.

    Netural Observer you dare me? Hahaha, I already did it and his bedroom skills are prefect. Although, Asian men on this blog have complaints against Asian women not one Asian man was as cruel as Netural Observer and Netural Observer did think about your Mother, Grandmother and other females in his family…I will assume you love these women?

    However, the vast majority of AA women have been duked into believing that only bm will love us. Many AA women (especially those who live in the south) are not aware that there are other race men who are serious about a relationship with a AA woman.

    IMHO, AA women’s biggest issue is with AA men. I ask you WOWO what other race of women you are aware of that have supported the men in their culture as much as AA women? The majority of men in every other culture not only supports but, protects the women in their culture. AA women gives way too much support to the men and with little to no RECIPROCITY. I remember one day at work a ww co-worker told me AA women usually get the short end of the deal when it comes to AA men. WOWO, notice how this guy blames every negative on AA women and he takes no blame. What a man?

    It is obvious that Netural Observer HATES AA women and this is the thanks most AA women will receive for their continued support of men like him.
    However, times are a changing and more AA women are WAKING up to the idea of dating/marryng other race men.

    The following is a great blog for men who wish to know more about AA women, Neutral Observer stay away.


  24. Ann, Neutral Observer is a self-hating gas bag. Pay no attention to his maniacal rants—no one with any sense does.

    And just for perspective, according to the American Community Survey 2008, (which surveys 3 million households) 14% of Black men married non-Black women, meaning that 86% of Black men are still marrying Black women. That is the VAST majority of them, despite the media impressions that there is some massive exodus afoot.

    Black women marry out at less than half the rate of Black men, at about 6%


  25. Ann,

    Thanks! I did not know about Sam Cacas.


    I’ll check out those stats later. In the meantime, this is what caught my eye in that article:

    Hai Nguyen, 37, of Houston recalls the instant connection she felt after meeting her first Vietnamese boyfriend, Greg, in college. Nguyen says while she had to explain herself to white boyfriends, with Greg it was a feeling that “he so gets me, because we eat the same food, we like the same things, our families know each other and there is so little that needs to be said.”

    With the enthusiastic support of her parents, she and Greg married. But their connection soon began to fade, due partly to Nguyen’s budding career as a business analyst, which clashed with more traditional expectations for her to “always have fresh food on the table.” The two divorced and Nguyen is now remarried to Jon, who is white.

    Hai, no offense, sistah, but that’s a low blow. A real low blow. Talk about using your Tan-Kingstonian stereotypes in an attempt to become part of the AFCC. I hope your White savior never asks you to cook because, of course, women traditionally have never cooked in European American households. [/sarcasm]

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  27. Haha! Ann, when I first went to that blackfemaleinterracialmarriage site, I saw the Asian Playboy being touted as a good thing. There was a big picture of his smiling mug. We’ve had our issues with those people. When I just went back, I read this:

    THANK YOU, Ann for the article about the Asian guy who seemed to be mainly promoting long term, committed relationships or marriages between AA women and Asian men. I didn’t check out his actual site prior to posting the article…

    However, according to one of the commenters who went to this Asian guy’s actual site, she says the site actually involves a business teaching Asian men how to be better “pickup” artists and is seemingly infested with Asian men who are obssessed with simply scoring the “P” from white women. LOL! I certainly don’t want to help Asian men to score the “P” from bw.

    I don’t have a problem with men giving men tips on how to approach women for reasons that will promote the betterment of women and men, but I do have a problem with men teaching men how to pick up white, black, or ANY woman JUST FOR empty SEX. That is SELFISH and one-sided. It’s USING a woman ‘s body as a semen dump and it has disastrous consequences like serious chronic or terminal DISEASES, unwanted children, abortions, and MOSTLY causes major distrust between men and women and lifelong emotional PAIN, in many instances.

    Good call for Evia! I’m glad to see that even though there’s a disparity, black women and Asian men are still maintaining high standards and making sure that we’re on the right path.

  28. Wow… Now, how did she come to that obvious conclusion? I wonder why she didn’t see the PUA sight for what it really was—A place for Asian guys to “Get better at approaching women?”

  29. I do not have to defend a man. However, his initial ARTICLE was about am/bw relationships. That article did not say anything in reference to hooking up just for the sake of sex. Also, whatever those am are saying in reference to ww or aw well these women will have to speak for themselves.

    All of you are men…get into the ring and go at it.

  30. Pingback: Black Women Deserve Better » Blog Archive » Traci 07/10/10 II – Random Thoughts

  31. Speaking as an African American woman with no chip on her shoulder but was handed down the same sterotypical generational curse, I hit the override button everytime. I won’t be typecasted through life because of the color of my skin. I was an only child, but I was smart, no I showed hints of geniusness at 7. But because of certain mentalitiies around me, and the perpetuated status quo, it was unpopular to be intelligent and not want to have premarital sex, children out of wedlock, a thug as a mate, no educatation. Yada, yada, yada

    So I bucked the systems set up by my forefathers/mothers, I went to college (excelled), I went into the U.S. Air Force (excelled), I recorded an album(success), designed a fashion and accessory line(success), wrote a poetry book(success). I believe I was humble the whole way through.

    Now I am in my mid thirties, finishing my bachelors to become a art teacher. I am disliked by many of my peers, many of my relatives (female), and taunted, tormented by black men, who find me disgusting to be able to take care of myself, and have no children. I have never done anything to black men but exist for God. Yes I do believe in my creator. Black men come to me as wounded soldiers, and they want me to take the burden and blame for all the things some other women have done to them. When in essence I am not looking for marriage or babies, I want a life of purpose, with God in it, and I don’t want to have to rely on ppl for my welfare.

    Is that wrong to want to be able to feed and clothe myself. Every human is entitled to have their basic needs met. Just because I am black doesn’t mean I have to apologize for being blessed. I would prefer that ppl who use, abuse, mistreat one another to work it out and leave me alone, and allow me to do what I came to do.

    Not every black woman is out to destroy the black man, and take all his money. As for the sex issue, its the black man who raped me,If I had my choice, I’de still be a virgin, and would’ve saved myself for my husband, If I chose to marry.

  32. Thanks for sharing your story, Mercedes. I’m really sorry to hear what happened to you. Please keep up the good fight.

  33. I came across this page as I was looking up posts on the topic:

    For the most, part I saw some very disturbing posts from people with all sorts of opinions on the matter, who perpetuated, in their own way, racism against either Blacks or Asians.

    See these links for examples:

    and here:

    The negative came up more than comments about supporting interracial relationships (namely, BF/AM couples). I’ve written about this in my blog, which is too much to post on this page but can be found here:


    Good luck, to the world,


  34. Bigwowo wrote: Conversely, in the land of plentiful single Asian men, the Asian woman is queen.

    Is that really true? If it were a sea of Asian men and then a pretty white girl were to go into the group, not sure if the AM would leave that pretty white girl for the AF. I’ve seen it at Asian clubs where that one white girl gets a lot of attention from the AMs. This also happens at the Latin clubs and Middle Eastern clubs. I do know some AMs who won’t marry a WF but not sure if I know any that won’t date one.

    I do agree, in a Sea of Black Women, the black man is king. Black women want to date black men. You rarely see them wanting to date a white guy. Imagine there being a site called Black woman player where it teaches black women to get the white guy of their dreams. Anyone who thinks that’s ridiculous probably know what I’m trying to compare that to.

  35. For a black man to say those disgusting things about black women makes me wonder in what respects did he hold his mother…
    Not all black women are the same. Sucks that you had a bad experience, apl’s fair in love and war Brotha…
    Now, as for the topic of black women and Asian men. Love is a beautiful thing and it sees no colors. Personally, I love Asian men. They’re so affectionate and sweet. He’s not afraid to show their lady some love… It’s nice to be looked at as soft when the world always expects you to be strong and hard 100% of the time. For Pete’s sake I’m a lady, treat me like one…
    To be a black woman is like carrying the weight of the world. I don’t know what some black men want us to be. All women are a little crazy honey. It’s a girl thang…
    Some advice. Go where your heart takes you, love is where you find it. If it feels right spiritually, go for it. You are lovable. Peace

  36. Pingback: Minority Media vs. Minority Success | bigWOWO

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