Check out the video above.
“Ooh hoo, you so handsome!” Please. There ain’t nothing “fobulous” about this “approach.” Girl didn’t know she was being filmed, but man, watch out fo’ Rice Chasahs! (You can google the douchemeister if you want to know what I’m talking about. Trust me, it won’t make you feel any better.)
I love how the woman says she has a boyfriend, and douchemeister continues. He even tries the “hug-close,” and he has to downgrade by asking her to hug him in her mind. He has no respect for her, otherwise he would respect the fact that she has a boyfriend. On the douchebag’s posting of the video, he claims that the woman actually showed up for a date, but who knows? Many of these guys are pathological liars. They’ll say whatever they can to not look like douchebags, even though that’s exactly what they are. As one of the wise women from the 44s once said, “These PUAs should get over themselves. Some people just aren’t meant to procreate.”
I remember back in the day when the 44s had their discussions with the Asian PUAs, and one thing Xian kept saying was that they had no empathy. I agree 100% with Xian. It was absolutely flabbergasting to me how they would harass women, encourage men to lie to women, and then somehow expect sympathy for being sexually oppressed as Asian men. They’d abuse women, and then claim that they were trying to be better people, all while not apologizing for their sexist transgressions. Please.
What I might add to Xian’s comment about empathy is that many PUAs often have no boundaries. Boundaries are good. They help define exactly who a person is. I’m convinced: if you have no boundaries, you have no soul. If you have no boundaries, you are almost by definition only in it for yourself. In other words, if you have no boundaries, and if you’ll trample on anyone to get ahead and to help yourself, you’re a douchebag who isn’t meant to procreate. Those who lie, steal, and abuse women need to get boundaries. They don’t need to get “good with women,” instead they should try to get “good” period.
I don’t know any PUAs where I live, but I do know people who embody the PUA mentality. These people view others as objects. They move and manipulate people in order to get what they want, much like the interplay of sarging, negging, and AMOGing that the PUAs employ. With people like this, you can’t appeal to their better sense of what’s right and what’s wrong because they’ll justify the means with the ends, which, in most cases, will be anything that helps them. They’ll treat you the way they treat the women they sarge–they’ll listen to what you have to say while trying to respond in a way that will get you to act according to their interests. Even if you see right through them, communication becomes pointless.
No related posts.
I agree with everything you said. About #1…I think...
8(
I get the feeling she was just being overly polite. It’s hard to just slam someone who seems to be interested in you, and who’s standing there complimenting you. So she told him that she had a boyfriend (several times) and that didn’t work, so… she goes along with it. Why not? She knows she’s not going to call him anyway, so it’s an easy way to get rid of the guy.
If she was all that interested in him, do you really think they’d be doing “mind hugs?!” $10 says she didn’t even give him the correct phone number. Notice there’s no follow up video of the non-existent date.
I didn’t watch the video in its entirety. Way too painful. I had to quit about 60 seconds in…
@ King: I never actually considered that she was simply being polite but that’s definitely a possibility. The truth is, no matter how much women say they get sick of guys jocking them, they still enjoy it. Who doesn’t like getting their ego stroked?
There’s one important point that critics of this video clip overlook.This guy is actually making an attempt. He may be a complete douchebag, but I give him props for having the balls to go up and spit game at her.
It ain’t easy and it’s more than what a lot of Asian guys would do.
Well MaSir, I’m just thinking that if you come to a new country and a new culture, and some guy comes fast talking you while showering you with compliments, how do you react? You may not be sure of customs and etiquette, you’ll probably be worried about unintentionally giving offense. There is no way to tell when a person is acting normal, and when they are over the line because you have no context with which to judge.
But when you get down to brass tacks, she came right out and told him she had a boyfriend, and she refused to hug him, even though he asked her for it several times. Also, notice that the video itself is cut and edited. Why? How long could this street corner exchange have possibly lasted? What is on the missing segments, things that make it clear that she really wasn’t that interested? I bet if you had the missing segments, it would become much more clear that she was being shy and trying to be nice, and he was just desperate.
Do you really think that she ditched her boyfriend two days later? I don’t think so. This is just contrived red meat for the gullible PUA masses to digest.
I think the problem with many PUA’s is that they do not follow their own advice, which is to establish a woman’s interest and take note of those indicators of interest. If a woman is not interested and she’s telling you through clear body language, demeanor and statements, then many PUA’s simply keep driving forward, which doesn’t come off as being engaging, but makes him come off as predatory.
An absolutely fobulous girl might not have the defense mechanisms to say, “Get lost bozo!” to an aggressive non-Asian male who’s fucking clueless.
I don’t knock PUA psychology, because it is based on principles already established in evolutionary psychology and social psychology. PUA tactics are simply tools, nothing more. You give one guy a tool and he kills somebody. You give another guy a tool and he builds a house.
But quite frankly, many PUA’s are socially inept and cannot recognize verbal and bodily cues of interest or disinterest. Most PUA’s are painfully nice guys looking to develop the social aspect of their personality. But there are some who don’t even have a social aspect in which to develop, and those are the ones who give PUA’s a bad name.
Many nice Asian guys have the opposite problem of this prick in the video: they’re too caught up in their own insecurities to recognize when a beautiful woman’s interested, and hence they don’t make an effort to approach.
I’ve had a lot of single women (of all races) confide in me that this was their number one complaint about Asian men. They had been going out with non-Asian guys, because they showed interest. Asian guys didn’t act on their interest.
One girl actually thought there was something wrong with her, and that this was the reason she never went out with an Asian guy.
I told her that was BS.
“I don’t knock PUA psychology, because it is based on principles already established in evolutionary psychology and social psychology.”
But Alpha, seriously, when have you ever seen one of these PUA programs that didn’t end up using some pseudo-psychological mumbo jumbo to turn guys into walking stereotypes of dating used car salesmen? They don’t know jack about evolutionary psychology, as was proven again and again on the 44s.
King,
Good points. Clever editing, but I too am not buying it. Where’s the follow-up clip? Haha…wouldn’t it be funny if he photoshopped a picture of himself with her, much like a certain PUA promoter did?
MaSir:
“I never actually considered that she was simply being polite but that’s definitely a possibility. The truth is, no matter how much women say they get sick of guys jocking them, they still enjoy it. Who doesn’t like getting their ego stroked?”
They enjoy getting approached by good guys; they hate sleezy guys. Trust me on this one. Guys don’t mind getting approached by anyone, but if you’re a girl being accosted by a dirtbag who has bad intentions, it’s not fun. I’ve seen girls near tears because of experiences with aggressive jerks.
Trust me on this one, MaSir, and if you don’t, ask a female friend. You can’t just take what a guy would feel and apply it to a girl. As I said so many times during the last days of the 44s, guys and gals are different.
“There’s one important point that critics of this video clip overlook.This guy is actually making an attempt. He may be a complete douchebag, but I give him props for having the balls to go up and spit game at her. “
This is what I don’t get. How much “balls” does it take to say hello to a woman? Sure, the first time it might be scary. The second time might be scary too. But after the third or fourth time, it’s nothing. PUA is such a broken system–lying, manipulating, gaslighting–that I’m surprised that so many young men are supporting it.
So why am I speaking to you about this, MaSir?
I think it’s because I think (and I could be wrong) that you’re young and have lots of energy. You could use this energy to really help people, rather than promote a system that thrives on sexism and hatred of women (and that’s really what it requires to objectify and hurt women the way that the PUAs do). You could encourage men to become stronger men, rather than just better liars and manipulators.
What do you think?
@King. This just goes to show you how
much you know about women.
First, they stood further apart when they
they first talking.
Second, look how close he got to her. Did
she back up? No!
Third, notice how she kept touching her hair.
That’s a clear sign that she’s interested.
Lastly, it looks like he touched her elbow.
You just have to learn how to read the signs.
How much “balls” does it take to say hello to a woman?
More balls than you think. Obviously you did not watch the clip.
Actually, I saw all of that, Sieg.
But that’s pretty much him getting closer to her. How many times did she touch him? Where did she make the move into his space? Where did she start asking him serial questions?
Again, this is a girl transplanted from a different culture, she has no reference as to how to rebuff this kind of assertive onslaught in this culture. I’m not saying that she’s absolutely disgusted by the guy, but she was clearly confused, nervous, and unable to communicate to him fully in English. She was also, clearly trying to be proper and polite and to respond in a way that would not be taken as offensive.
Now, you may translate all of that into her being into the guy, but I don’t think so.
Hair touching = interest? People/Women may touch twist, pet, or whisk through their hair when they’re nervous, concerned, or pressured, as well. Defining hair touching as a sure signifier of attraction or interest is simplistic and inaccurate.
One additional point.
If AA guys did say a simple, “Hello” or even a simple compliment as much as you claim how easy it is, then where would this stereotype of Asian men being timid have come in the first place? Its obvious there’s some truth to this generalization. Furthermore, a simple “Hello” isn’t going to cut it majority of the time and this is where Game plays a key part in increasing your chances with a woman.
I believe Alpha Asian is able to see both sides of the coin. Some guys may use predatory brute force tactics while other guys game with style and swagger. Just because some guys may be the former, doesn’t mean I or guy else has to be.
CORRECTION: More balls than you think. Obviously you did not watch the clip from the link I provided
CORRECTION: “Just because some guys may be the former, doesn’t mean I or another guy has to be.”
I talked about this on the 44s.
In my neighborhood (African Ameican) growing up, there was an old tradition of “workin’ on your mack” which was kind of a game. Every guy tried out all the most ridiculous lines on the girls—it didn’t matter if you liked them or not. The guys threw out the macks, the girls always shot them down, and it was kind of a joke that everyone enjoyed. Guys thinking of creative and clever ways to mack up the girls, and girls thinking of even more clever ways to turn down the guys. But since it was a game nobody took the put-downs personally. You were going to get a “no” either way and this annulled any pressure . Every now and then, a guy came up with something so creative, so smooth, so dap, that everybody had to give him props. But success was rare and hard to come by.
But by time we were in our mid- teens, we had been soundly rejected so many times and so badly, that we really were all quite immune to it. If a girl said “no”, it was “no,” but we didn’t really sweat it, because it was just like in our little game, you try again with something better later. Also, the girls all got used to guys asking them out and throwing pure BS at them. In the end, the boys turned out bolder, and more confident, and the girls ended up wiserm confident, and knew how to deal with male BSers.
What was missing, of course, was the lying, the negs, point systems, wing men, pep rallies, canned techniques, and the psychobabble: replication value and such…
Sieg:
“You just have to learn how to read the signs.”
Haha…re the other thread, when a woman marries another guy, it usually means she’s not your girlfriend.
King,
That’s a great story. Man, we should have that in Asian American culture.
Seriously, that’s great game. It builds up creativity, initiative, and fun. Since you know the woman is going to say no, there’s no fear of failure. It takes the seriousness out of the whole interaction.
Did you play this with girls you knew? Was it just friends? Was it just when you guys were hanging out? I think that’s a great game to prepare people for life, not just dating.
Now here’s a question: What was the interaction between younger boys and older boys? Did the older boys lead the younger boys by teaching them the game? Did men teach boys? Some Asian activists are always saying that our families discourage interactions and that, “well, I never learned how to approach women.” This could be an interesting discussion.
MaSir:
How much “balls” does it take to say hello to a woman?
More balls than you think. Obviously you did not watch the clip.
Or maybe I watched the clip, but I’ve also done it in real life myself and don’t think it’s such a big deal. What do you think about King’s story? Could “working on your mack” be a game young Asian Americans could learn to play? Minus the sarging, negging, AMOGing, peacocking, and lines?
If AA guys did say a simple, “Hello” or even a simple compliment as much as you claim how easy it is, then where would this stereotype of Asian men being timid have come in the first place? Its obvious there’s some truth to this generalization. Furthermore, a simple “Hello” isn’t going to cut it majority of the time and this is where Game plays a key part in increasing your chances with a woman.
It really is easy. I’m not saying that Asian men always say hello, but it is easy to do so. How do I know? I’ve done it. Many times. Sometimes successfully, sometimes not, but I don’t think I’ve ever run out of things to say.
By the way, something that I thought about this morning: very few people meet the person of their dreams at a bar or club. Girlfriends, yes, but lifelong partners? I think most people meet through introductions. Tiger Woods did, I think Pete Sampras did. People might keep this in mind.
King,
That could be great PUA defense for the girls too. They could practice shooting down guy friends, and then they could do it without fear when approached by a real peacocker.
“That’s a great story. Man, we should have that in Asian American culture.”
Ideas are not owed by ethnicities. Anyone can play.
” Did you play this with girls you knew? Was it just friends? Was it just when you guys were hanging out? I think that’s a great game to prepare people for life, not just dating.”
Yes, it was with female friends who we knew—otherwise someone might take us seriously. Yeah, it did prepare us for life in a lot of ways. But mostly, it just made us fearless. After a couple hundred rejections, they kind of lose their sting. Part of the art of fighting, is learning how to take a punch, not just give them.
“Now here’s a question: What was the interaction between younger boys and older boys? Did the older boys lead the younger boys by teaching them the game?”
It was more among us boys, and of course, the older boys encouraged the younger ones to work on their mack. They always did it when everyone was together at a party or hanging out. You can see how it would be fun. Older brothers coached younger brothers (at home) so as not to be embarrassed by them
Grown-ups weren’t really involved.
The main thing is that it’s just a game. You have to treat it that way, even though you know it can have larger implications. Everyone has to be able to laugh at it, and it can’t be seen as serious, or else it doesn’t work. The idea is to get the applause or the laughs, not the girl.
@King again, Dude, you need to get schooled
in the art of dating. If you think she’s afraid of him or
simply being “nice to him” because of her culture, then
you clearly don’t understand women.
I talked to Asian women who had boyfriends
and they clearly flirted with me.
I got their number. Now, did you notice that
she never turned her body away when they
were talking.
Did you see how closely they walked together?
How do you know if she wasn’t sexualy nervous?
How do you know if they didn’t get together?
You just can’t accept that guy might have scored since
he had success before.
Sieg:
“I talked to Asian women who had boyfriends
and they clearly flirted with me.
I got their number.”
Let me guess…555-1212? Or was it 867-5309? Did she tell you her number, or did she sing it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axLRUszuu9I
King: I’ve got a new theory.
Most people could get into shape by either running and doing pushups and pullups. Or they could play pickup basketball. Yet people will pay for expensive clubs, hire expensive personal trainers, or take diet pills. Pills are especially popular since they don’t take a lot of work. Just take it and wait.
PUA could be much of the same thing. People just want to pay for the easy-to-swallow pill. It makes some people feel better by paying or joining a “movement.” They want to “get better with women” without doing the serious introspection and work on themselves. That’s basically what it is: “attract women in three easy steps.” Unfortunately, life doesn’t work that way.
What you describe with working on your mack is akin to playing pickup or running. It’s free, it’s honest, and it really does make you better, but it’s also something you have to work on. It teaches confidence and fearlessness, and it teaches boys to think on their feet–especially since it’s in front of an audience. Plus, I think it’s great that it’s not so serious. I read some of the people who wind up taking PUA classes, and it’s like life or death! Working on your mack could prepare one not just for hitting on women, but for sales, presentations, speaking out, etc.
I’ve got this one in my mind right now. There could be a frontpage article on this in the future.
Anything else that is relevant? Man, I would LOVE to see this played!!!
isn’t King’s approach of “macking” the same stuff as PUA, u go up to her and spit ur game. PUA just defines all the steps, no?
Not impressed, but here’s the point:
Not only did she give hime plenty of time to talk to her, she also contributed to the conversation. FOB or not, if she hadn’t been enjoying herself, she would have found a way to excuse herself.
@ asianguy
Not really. The game we played as adolescents pretty much just got us past the “uncomfortable stage” with the opposite sex. It taught us not to take ourselves or our mack too seriously. It also taught the girls not to take us guys too seriously, and that they could shut guys down when they really needed to. It was a game that males and females both had a hand in creating, and defining, and both sexes participated in it equally (although with decidedly different roles)
A lot of it also has to do with the age that you’re exposed to it. It’s like learning languages— there’s an optimal time to orient yourself to talking to women, and that time is in your adolescent years. Not to say that you can’t learn a language as an adult, but it’s considerably more difficult.
PUA, however, is a system where fully grown MEN take themselves way too seriously, then go on to develop an almost religious belief in some divine male sensei of womanology, who will reveal to them the secrets of “The Game.” Most of these so-called secrets are based on how the sensei predicts that most women will react to certain pseudo-psychological “tricks.”
The disciples pay large amounts of money for this “training.”
@ jaehwan: I totally agree with your theory.
If you charge enough for something, it implies a certain value to the service. Of course, this is not always true.
I mean, don’t we learn everything as games when we’re kids? Play becomes life. If you think of most of the essential things that you know in life, they began, at some as a game. That’s what we’re doing all of those years in our back yards, family rooms, and playgrounds. Believe it of not, we’re learning and teaching.
Why should this be any different?
King,
Exactly. I’m still thinking about this. I want to do a frontpage post. You know, it’s funny too what you say about adolescence. Adolescence is the perfect age. After a while, it becomes silly to grown men.
Asianguy,
I agree with King. It’s completely different. Completely. First of all, workin’ the mack is a game. Second of all, boys and girls have equal stake in the game. Third of all, it’s for the benefit and entertainment of the group, NOT to actually consummate whatever guys are looking for.
Think about this. Imagine you’re living back in the day. You’re watching King and his pals playing the game. What do you see?
You’ll see they’re doing it for entertainment. They might say something like, “If I received a nickel for everytime I saw someone as beautiful as you, I’d have five cents.” (haha…you can tell I didn’t play this game growing up. King, help! I got that one from here.)
It’s to make everyone else laugh. It helps everyone involved because it’s funny.
I mean, think about it, lines like this automatically eliminate the most common PUA-isms.
“Who lies more, men or women?” (How is that funny?)
“My God, did you see that fight outside?” (How is this funny?”)
“You’ve got a cute smile, reminds me a bit of Bugs Bunny.” (Negs certainly aren’t funny.)
With the working the mack openers, it’s funny, clever, and happy. With the PUA openers, it’s self-serving, manipulative, and kind of gross.
“Who lies more, men or women?” (How is that funny?)
“My God, did you see that fight outside?” (How is this funny?”)
“You’ve got a cute smile, reminds me a bit of Bugs Bunny.” (Negs certainly aren’t funny.)
I’ve never used those lines in my entire life.
“If I received a nickel… King, help! I got that one from here”
Haha! You’re doing fine. Many of the lines started out like that, but you understand, it’s not so much about the lines themselves, as much as it’s about approaching girls, trying to be clever/funny about it, and learning how to laugh at the inevitable rejections. It’s just a game and it’s about having fun.
Example:
Guy says: “Do you believe in love at first sight, or do I need to walk by a second time?” (smiles at her)
Girl replies: “That’s OK baby… no need to repeat your mistakes.” (smiles back at him)
/Example
Of course, there’s no way to translate all of the vocal support, head shaking, and laughter from the crowd, but it was a lot more about the experience than it was about the words. Even the dumbest lines would get some support because, hey, the little guy was trying.
And as you grow older, what you take away with you is experience. I don’t remember most of the lines, they were just a medium, but what remains is a confidence, ease, and respect, around women folk. From a kid, I know that it’s always rewarding to try, and that failure won’t kill you.
That’s what I learned by mackin’.
Thanks, King! Frontpage article a forthcoming, hopefully this weekend!
Those lines are great:
“Ya know, you look really hot! You must be real reason for global warming.”
Haha!
Man, there’s going to be some soul-searching/thinking about culture in this frontpage post. It’s hard because I think our culture really frowns upon loudness. It’s that whole thing about not standing out. But clearly we need to make changes.
MaSir,
Are you sure you endorse PUA? With the possible exception of the tension/seriousness/lack of humor that they all seem to embody, it seems that you disapprove of most of the things they do. (I not-so-secretly hope you don’t endorse them.)
I agree with siegfried. To the guy who wrote this article, you might wanna learn more about women cuz it seems like you don’t know about women.
I don’t advocate all pua stuff but everybody can always sharpen their game. To all the haters out there, I met my ex-gf and current gf on the street.
@In the know:
You mean you’re homeless?
“How to bag a bag lady?”
This is so far down this long list of comments i hope someone will read the ONLY INTELLIGIBLE WORDS ON THIS PAGE (well probably i did not read every comment). There is a lot incorrect and clearly bias, (to what bias is unknown but i may speculat)e, information in this article. First of all the guy in the video does pretty well and anyone with knowledge of social dynamics or mere social intuition will see the girl wats to see him again, his interaction with her is relaxed, causal and fun. The point raised of bits being missing from the video is not some crude attempt to cut out crushing information to the pua’s ego, its for confidentially purposes haha! And yes she DOES have a boyfriend and he still pursues her! Shock horror if only we lived in the 1800s!
Her boyfriend may be a terrible boyfriend, she may want to trade up, as people do but often won’t admit, why would she be so willing to meet with another man if she is complete happy with her romantic life? Or he may be an awesome guy, the fact is, this is not the issue, men can condone this behavior: pua or not, or cheat with women: pua or not, do not assume and do not label all who study seduction as men-moral less, my personal view is that this man has done no wrong.
Our little author goes on to just bash pua’s in general on ridiculously claims like they are all pathological liars. This really shows this guys intelligence level here, puas are all different they are not just one clone of each other. I feel that all this anger may be a sign of this mans own jealousy and unwillingness to admit fault…. perhaps. Also i don’t know what this BS about boundaries defining our identity is hahahaha, it sounds like pop psychology from a OK magazine.
As for puas in general and the seduction community. It is a way for men to help improve their social skills and increase their attractiveness, very noble pursuits, becoming a better man. Manipulation is a loaded word, understanding does not constitute negative motives, by that i mean understanding social situations. I will concede that the pua thing is a bit odd or quirky would be a better word, but only as it goes against the norm, it is very unique there is really nothing like it not even in the academic world, part of the reason the seduction community exists. Puas are simply men who need help or would like some anyway, and yes their may be the odd dickhead who uses women etc. but they would have been like that before, there are many more morally unstable men outside of puas.
Before you critic the pua thing learn about it, i mean learn about it past the routines lol. Anyway i do not really care what people think about the community, most people are scared of understanding social dynamics and fear people who do, most men will protect their ego rather than attempt to improve themselves. Well this has turned into an epic ramble, but basically the author of this article is a fool.
Oh yes and I am obviously someone who study’s and applies pua material and theory.
I am improving myself.
And making a habit of it!
After reading my comment, it is quite strong willed, no personal attacks (on the author) are intended, ‘purely academic’.
Dude, you are kind of late to this game, this has been hashed to death. It’s 2012.
Catwalq,
I think he misread our social dynamics.
Student,
Check out my “final” piece on PUA here:
http://www.bigwowo.com/2008/12/the-post-pua-era-of-the-asian-american-blogosphere/