I’m sorry, I had to break my 1-post-every-two-days plan because of the video above and the article below. The video above is that funny, and the article below is something that I’m sure people have been thinking about.
This article by Jesse Washington is about Tiger and how his choices of lovers affect his position with black people. Tiger allegedly has seven lovers so far, and so far all of them are White. The article says that some black people are jumping off the Tiger bandwagon because of this fact.
According to wiki, Woods is “one-quarter Chinese, one-quarter Thai, one-quarter African American, one-eighth Native American, and one-eighth Dutch.” He’s about as Black as Malcolm X was White–err, actually, he’s exactly as Black as Malcolm X was White. So he’s not really all that black, and the article correctly points out that he declines to call himself black. Still the article does raise some interesting questions about how those who perceive him as black question him based on his sexual choices.
A minority athlete who likes his women to be like his milk and Ivory Soap–white and white. I think it’s funny to think about and maybe funny to talk about. In the end, however, Tiger is a just an athlete. He’s the greatest golfer ever, a big moneymaker, and a big philanthropist. I don’t think he aspires to be anything else. For that reason, there is no cause for anger. He has a right to choose a partner based on whatever criteria he chooses. It hasn’t yet affected his game.
The article compares him to Obama:
A similar issue comes into play with our Asian American leaders. Most Asian American civil rights and cultural leaders are women, and a large majority are married to non-Asian men–which, unfortunately reflects a prevailing pattern in the general population. It’s not a big deal if Kristi Yamaguchi or Michelle Kwan does it. As with Tiger, you can talk about it, and there’s no reason to be angry. However, when it’s so-called cultural leaders, and it’s done repeatedly to the tune of “We ALL ONLY date White guys,” it tends to get people jaded real quickly. People want something to believe, and if an entire institution of activists can’t offer it, even if the problem comes via something as simple as a refusal/inability to date men of the race they’re supposedly representing, then there are issues.
Seriously, I know it’s not politically correct to say this, but if Obama were married to a White woman, it would have deprived us of the ability to see a beautiful strong Black woman in Michelle Obama as well as a beautiful first Black First Family. If you’re looking for the next great sports star, it’s not a big deal. If you’re looking for a representative to signify some coming of age, I think it could be a big deal. Obama, King, and Malcolm were the latter to many people, and for that reason the criteria is more rigid.
Related posts:
Debates on race and sexual politics for African Americans are just as divisive as they are for Asian Americans – though for African Americans, the inverse is true (large numbers of African American men choosing white women over African American women).
But yes… Tiger. So much for his “clean cut” image…
Haha, well my point in the other thread was that whatever he is, he’s not exactly White but seems strangely (or perhaps predictably) drawn to only White women. Imagine that! It seems that I’ve seen this kind of preference expressed somewhere before… don’t tell me… I’m sure it will come to me eventually.
But again, not to be a stickler but I must respectfully disagree with this quotation:
“According to wiki, Woods is “one-quarter Chinese, one-quarter Thai, one-quarter African American, one-eighth Native American, and one-eighth Dutch.” He’s about as Black as Malcolm X was White–err, actually, he’s exactly as Black as Malcolm X was White. So he’s not really all that black, and the article correctly points out that he declines to call himself black.”
I hate to argue with the Wiki, but what’s with all of the tidy ethnic percentages? I mean, 12.5% Native American, 12.5% Caucasian? 25% Black? 25% Chinese, 25% Thai?
I think that this is a common mistake that people make. They often think that you can divide a person’s ethnicity by taking the racial label applied to each parent and dividing by two. So if you have an Asian mother and a Sub-Saharan African father, then you simply divide 1 person by two ethnicities and come up with 50% of each. That is incorrect.
Mixed ethnicity does not depend on taking two parents and splitting the child down the middle, but on the genetic markers that are transferred to the child from each parent—and that rarely comes out as an exact 50% / 50%. On a genetic level, traits are passed from parent to offspring, and even though you have one parent from either ethnicity, the child will almost certainly inherit more genetic traits from one parent than another. In other words, Tiger Woods might look the way he does because, GENETICALLY, he’s 70% Black. And that’s the real measure of mixed ethnicity, it’s based on genetics, not just broad percentages based on ones family tree.
Tiger’s hair texture, skin color, and many of his facial features indicate a very high transference of African genetic traits. Sure, you can see that he’s also mixed with Asian, (especially once somebody tells you) but his features are predominantly Sub Saharan African – at least to my eyes.
However, be that as it may, he seems exclusively drawn to White girls, and mostly blondes at that.
The problem with Tiger is the problem that a lot of people with significant african heritage have. They live in a world where blackness is not an advantage. So they look to distance themselves from it.
Byron, I’m sure you’re well aware that black genes are dominant genes, according to Mendel, so it’s no surprise that anytime you have a black person in the first 4 generations of a family line people will be able to tell on sight.
Tiger was the one who chose to define himself as something other than black. And as for trying to define Earl Woods ethnicity, that’s splitting hairs. We don’t know that much about Tiger’s Asian mother. But I’m willing to bet the genetic mix there is FAR more complex than she’s admitting to.
However if we’re speaking in the general, then Tiger is about half black. 30 – 40 % of African Americans have at least one white ancestor (thanks a fucking lot slavery!) and yet nobody is dumb enough to split hair about African Americans being 1/8 white etc.
At the end of the day Tiger doesn’t want to be black, which h CLEARLY looks like. You can’t say he looks Asian –he doesn’t! However, he doesn’t want to be Asian either. He wants to be some sort of non-race man.
The boy’s living in a fantasy world and is a disgrace, no matter what he calls himself.
Missing the forest for the trees.
The topic is about his choice in women, not splitting hairs about his biracial mix.
I’m not sure that the forest isn’t actually made out of trees, in this case, uRB4N.
Part of the issue is that Tiger’s first move was to try and portray himself as a person with no particular race—even though he’s clearly Black and Asian. His second move was to then (as a raceless person) go on to pursue only White women. There seem to be no Blacks or Asians in his dating/adultery pool at all. Logically these actions seem to be the flip sides of the same coin.
two things
the link to the sfgate blog said this:
In a time when interracial dating is common, and black women with white men in commercials are more common than the opposite,
I call bs on this whenever you see a stock picture on a website or brosure it is usually white woman and a black man.
second to “defend” Tiger he is probably exposed to a heck of a lot more white woman then black, asian, etc. He is rich athlete, and the sport is golf for god sakes, most places he goes are not going to have that many african americans. (that being said there are a lot of Asain/Korean women golfers, he could have probably got on one of those at some golf thing)
“second to “defend” Tiger he is probably exposed to a heck of a lot more white woman then black, asian, etc. He is rich athlete, and the sport is golf for god sakes, most places he goes are not going to have that many african americans. “
For petesakes, he’s sleeping with pancake waitresses, nightclub girls and porno actresses. Do you really think this is about access? Black and Asian women serve pancakes too. Just sayin’
uRB4N–
I addressed that in full at the end of my post, because Tiger’s self-loathing is so blatant that I felt a single mention in passing at the very end was the most he should get.
If you can’t keep up with the conversation then don’t weigh in.
A tangential zoomed out observation — it’s startling that even someone in the position of Tiger Woods can be brought to his knees by something we bicker about every day, racial self-esteem. This is someone who has [had] enough influence to tip the world in his favor. However, at the end of the day he still has the same hard time coming to grips with his own racial identity that we do.
Jaehwan and one of the links reference something that I’ve kind of noticed but never been able to articulate. It seems that the more successful, wealthy, and influential the individual, the more likely he/she will seek racial validation by pursuing white partners. This seems to be true with respect to black men and Asian men. You would think the opposite would be true, but it appears that no amount of acquired social standing can quite match racial standing. Seriously distrubing.
“It seems that the more successful, wealthy, and influential the individual, the more likely he/she will seek racial validation by pursuing white partners. This seems to be true with respect to black men and Asian men. You would think the opposite would be true, but it appears that no amount of acquired social standing can quite match racial standing. Seriously disturbing.”
Great observation.
This trend certainly bears some looking into. It certainly has implications to the root cause of the disparity as well. I have a feeling that understanding such behavior is important.
I meant black men and Asian women, obviously
obviously.
Cool discussion.
Okay, so re: forest for the trees…Neutral and King, I actually agree with urb4n on this one. I don’t think anyone is right or wrong on this, but my opinion is similar to urb4n in this case, probably because…well, I’ll present my theory below.
The reason I brought up Tiger’s ethnic makeup was that I thought he was correct in asserting that he’s not all that black. Black is just how some people see him. He himself identifies himself differently. The main issue–for me, at least–was exactly what urb4n said about his preference for women. I acknowledged he was a minority, but that was as far as I went.
Now I agree with Neutral and Mendel that black genes tend to be dominant. Why? Well, if I were to see Hines Ward on the street, I would think he’s black, despite the fact that his mother is Asian. I’d think the same about Obama, even though his mom was White. I’d think the same about Amerie and Crystal Kay. And yes, I would think the same about Tiger.
The thing with Tiger is that his blackness–that is, the reason we think he’s black–is just his shade. If he were lighter skinned and I saw him on the street, I’d think Tiger was Southeast Asian. I think most people would mistake him for Southeast Asian. He looks very much like a Cambodian friend of mine, same height, same build, same eyes, and same facial structure, just a different color (my friend is dark but lighter than Tiger.). I remember when Tiger first emerged. There was a black woman at my office who said, “That’s the ugliest Black man I’ve ever seen.” I wanted to say, “That’s because he’s not black!” His hair is also more African looking, but I’ve seen Thai and Cambodian people with curly hair as well.
Do you remember reading the Autobiography of Malcolm X where he says that people called him “Red” because of his light complexion due to his White grandfather? I remember reading an account by one journalist who met Malcolm and actually thought he was White. I was surprised. I have a black and white poster of “By Any Means Necessary,” and I didn’t see how anyone could mistake him for a White man. I wondered whether that reporter had vision problems.
Then I saw a color photo of Malcolm. Brother Malcolm wasn’t “red,” he was almost white. Lighter than Obama. Around the same shade as Mariah. But even though Malcolm was very light, he identified as black. Being 3/4 black, it was justified.
So I think Tiger is also justified in saying he’s not black, regardless of how dark his skin is. That’s my opinion, and feel free to disagree.
And now for my theory:
Bear with me on this. I’m going out on a limb and trying to make helpful generalizations. Tell me if I’m right or wrong.
I think uRB4N and I downplay the racial identification question because we were raised by Asian parents, and King and N.O. were raised by Black parents. The difference? When it comes to racial identity, I think African American culture tends to be more united vs. divided because of a common history. In other words, Black people say, “Tiger ought to do what’s right and come together,” whereas Asian people say, “He should do what makes sense to him as an individual.” That’s why urb4n and I didn’t think so much about his claim of not being black, nor did we really care that he didn’t claim Asianness either. When it comes to racial identity, it’s a do-what-you-want culture. It’s good and bad. There may be more freedom to deviate, but it also explains the unfortunate fact that Hong Kingston rose so high with nary a squeak from our community.
Thoughts?
I think I can agree with much of your theory, Jaehwan. In fact, I think it to be a very perceptive observation. Thanks.
However, my own main objection was to the use of simple race-of-parent data in determining ethnic percentage in mixed offspring. I realize that this method is used a lot, to describe ethnic admixtures, but it’s hopelessly inaccurate.
Ethnicity is based on genetic marker transfer. If you have a White parent and a Black parent, the child is not really 50% White and 50% Black. Which race he is, and in what percentages, would be determined by the uneven genetics he inherits. That was my only observation. There probably really is no way to divide Tiger Woods (or anybody else) neatly by ethnic percentages%—I doubt if we have the scientific precision to do so.
Now, having said that, Tiger is basically the result of an Afro/Asian mixture of genes. I will assume that nobody here cares very much about what the exact formula is—I know, I don’t. But one thing we can probably all agree on is that he’s nowhere close to being White. However, when asked to describe his ethnicity Tiger calls himself a
Canablasian: No, no! Not a “Cannibal Asian!” see below
Ca (Caucasian)
NA (Native American)
BL (Black)
Asian
Notice how far down the made-up word you have to travel before you actually get to the Black and Asian part… Suspicious, but perhaps forgivable. So Tiger marries a very White wife… no problem, love crosses color lines. But then, for the first time, we have an opportunity (through Tiger’s indiscretions) to glimpse into what kind of women he is attracted to. And when we do, we find a very long list of mostly blonde, White women—no Asians, no Blacks, no Native Americans, no Hispanics. So, it seems that it’s not just that he happened to fall in love with a Swedish wife, he seems to have pursued a strict “Whites only” dating policy.
Now, my argument is not now, and never was, that Tiger is Black, because I’d also find this behavior to be questionable if he was 100% Chinese, 100% Thai, or 100% Native American.
The point, as uRB4N so eloquently put it, “is about his choice in women, not splitting hairs about his biracial mix.”
Thanks, King.
Maybe someone with a better grasp of genetics can answer this, but don’t you get a 50 mix either way between two parents? Meaning that if Seal has a child with Heidi Klum, the child will have dark hair because of the dominance of the dark haired genes, but the child still carries the allele for blonde hair with him. I think they symbolize it “Bb” or something. So if Seal’s son also finds a blonde wife, the offspring of that relationship could be blonde.
Now things would be more complex after the third generation. If the son’s son is blonde, I don’t know if that son still carries any trace of Seal’s hair color in his genetics.
So, in other words, King, you’re right, especially since so few of us are 100% anything. I’m just playing with the details. (Although I did read somewhere that it’s possible for two blondes to give birth to a dark haired child although extremely improbably. Any geneticists in the house?)
The African American/Asian American discussion goes well with the Justice course. The next episode, Episode 11, deals with community obligations vs. freedom, or Aristotle vs. Kant. It echoes the earlier Justice discussions or morally-focused societies vs. freedom-focused societies. This isn’t to say that one is more moral than the other, or that one is more free than the other, but perhaps communities put different focuses on different areas at different times.
I’d actually like to say something else, but maybe I should watch Ep 11 first. Just two more episodes of Justice. It’s been fascinating.
Pingback: Where the White Women At? by Tiger Woods « BicoastalBitchin’s Weblog
Woods banging white and blond must make him a big man. I’m damn sick and tired of hearing about everywhere I go.
“Maybe someone with a better grasp of genetics can answer this, but don’t you get a 50 mix either way between two parents? Meaning that if Seal has a child with Heidi Klum, the child will have dark hair because of the dominance of the dark haired genes, but the child still carries the allele for blonde hair with him. I think they symbolize it “Bb” or something. So if Seal’s son also finds a blonde wife, the offspring of that relationship could be blonde.”
Long week! Sorry for the delay.
OK, lol! ? Yes, you’ve busted me at speaking in genetic shorthand because I thought to avoid the awful burden of complexity. However, I should have known better, remembering how relentless you are! But maybe I can still take a stab at a somewhat simplified explanation.
True, all humans posses the human genome, there are no traits that any of us have that can’t be found within that human genome. Therefore, of course, race is not a matter of the actual “genes we possess” but rather it’s based on what genes are turned “on” and “off” within the genome. This produces a variety of phenotypes which we have translated (along with their corresponding cultural identities) as ethnicity.
So, when we are talking about say, a Scandinavian and an Asian, we may consider them to be two different ethnicities, but in reality, more than 90% of their active genetics will be identical (as human beings) and the differences are based on the minority of genetic variance. In other words, only say… 7% of the active genetics may be different as a result of specific genes being turned off or on. So when we talk about inheriting genetic differences, we’re only talking about inheriting a relatively small phenotypical variance within the whole of genes that we all possess.
But based on this obvious complexity of definition, it becomes even harder to break up a human being into neat, genetic, percentages. It is almost impossible to divide genetic variances into comprehensive ethnic bundles, especially since many of the ethnicities share common variances. For instance, East Indians are of Caucasian ancestry, and yet may have the same hue of dark skin as persons of Negroid ancestry. Try figuring out who “owns” that specific genetic trait?
Therefore, I would argue that the assertions than Tiger Woods is 1/4 or 1/8 of anything is probably meaningless. It’s like mixing two reactionary chemical compounds together to make an explosion, and then trying to divide the smoke, by percentage, back into the two original chemicals. It doesn’t work after the reaction has happened.
—So, the obvious question is, if this is all really true, then how can we strictly define any race on a biological basis. The answer is that we can’t. Race/ethnicity is not primarily a biological construct, so much as it is a social one. However a social reality is just as binding, in its consequences, and in its requisite implications to privilege as a biological one. “Race” still exists, even if it’s traditional definition is an illusion.
“Woods banging white and blond must make him a big man. I’m damn sick and tired of hearing about everywhere I go.”
C’mon Zig, I can understand why the rest of us might feel this way, but how can you?
For years, Asian guys have been pointing out to you how some Asian women have been making this exact same choice to go for “white and blonde” men and you have been vehement defending it under the colorblind banner. In fact, you have been encouraging it! You yourself are interested in only “banging” Asian women, and have made an online career of justifying it.
Now, a blasian guy is exclusive “banging” White chicks and you object?
The rest of us are at least being consistent in our objections. Is there really no limit to the extent of your hypocrisy?
Haha,
Sig makes me laugh. Sometimes.
King,
I definitely agree with you because as you said, it’s impossible to say who “owns” which genes. Some Chinese people, for example, have big noses. It’s not supposed to be a typical Chinese trait, but there it sometimes exists, in the middle of China.
I think for shorthand, some people like to say, for example, “I’m half Chinese and half German.” It’s hard to say who is what…I, for example, think I’m 100% Chinese, but I know it’s likely that I have other stuff coming in from way back when. Still, maybe it offers an approximation so that people can make sense of Olivia Munn, Apolo Ohno, and Tiger Woods.
So…I agree.
ok so i think its a mix of my super ex wife and maybe some oj. (pun-like)
some one tell Diddy that Tiger is not exactly black, maybe the world will accept it.
but some asian girls are really hot because they look so asian?
And then it was over.
http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,2012613,00.html?hpt=T2
Sheesh, their son is only 1. That’s gotta be hard.