The Asian Inferiority Complex

Du Juan

Beautiful model Du Juan

(pic from here)

I remember calling an Asian American friend when I first landed in Japan right after college.

“How do the guys here get anything done?” I asked him, jokingly.  “The women here are eye-blindly beautiful.  I’d have trouble keeping an eye on my work.”

At the time, Amuro Namie was really big in Japan.  I was working for a White British woman at the school where I taught, and the British woman told me, “Have you heard of Amuro Namie?  She is absolutely gorgeous.  Among the most beautiful women in the entire world.”

Amuro Namie

Amuro Namie

(pic from here)

Some years later, when I was back in the States, I had a Japanese female client.  She was an older woman but was stylish, confident, and strong.  I brought her to a business transaction, and the White female notary called my blonde female processor after I had left.  “Byron’s client is BEAUTIFUL.  My God!  I couldn’t keep my eyes off of her.”

Among adoring White women, sketchy Rice Chasers, and Asian men, it seems that everyone thinks that Asian women are beautiful…except Asian women.  Etain sent me this article from the Washington Post: Foreign models flock to China, which embraces a Western vision of beauty.  It says what we all suspected but didn’t feel like saying: China, when looking for fashion models, has discovered blondes.  And not just blondes from Asia, but REAL blondes of European descent.

Western models, it seems, are everywhere these days in the People’s Republic of China: on department store display ads, in catalogues for clothing brands, on billboards, in commercials and on the runways at fashion shows. They are blue-eyed American and Canadian blondes like Vos, sultry Eastern European brunettes and hunky male bodybuilders with Los Angeles tans and six-pack abs selling products from jeans to underwear.

It’s mind-boggling.  They literally have over half a billion Asian women in China, and they have to import White women for their fashion industry?  I almost understand the male aspect–Charisma Man thinking has been the norm for a long time–but I don’t understand it from the female angle.

Listen to this:

Then there is the matter of the Chinese sense of what constitutes beauty in a globalized world. “The foreign models’ faces are much more three-dimensional,” Ou said. “They look nicer in pictures.”

He added that he never hires black models. “Our clients don’t ask for black models,” he said. “It’s an issue of Chinese people’s aesthetic view.”

This brings together a few concepts that we’ve been discussing recently.

1. Some Chinese are racist against black people, as seen in our Lou Jing post.

2. Chinese are pro-White, even at their own expense.

3. There exists an Inferiority Complex among Chinese people, but probably also among Asian people in general

What is ironic for me was that I was talking with a fashion designer just a few days ago.  She was saying that in order to sell to Asians, you have to put your merchandise on White models.  Which is pretty ridiculous.  Fubu can put their merchandise on black models, and black people will buy it.  It almost becomes a movement.  If Vera Wang, on the other hand, only uses Asian models, Asian people ain’t gonna buy.  We need validation from White people in order to see ourselves.  This bias exists in literature too–writers don’t become big unless their books have tons of blurbs by White writers.

Some people argue that racism will disappear when China accumulates wealth and starts running the show.  Articles like this one indicate that that is not the case.  I mean, come on, some of US accumulate money and the first thing we do is produce a movie like Iron Road with an AF/WM.    Money alone will not do it.  Let me repeat–money alone will not do it. Power may do it, but it had better be power that rests in part on our intellectual power.

91 thoughts on “The Asian Inferiority Complex

  1. I suspect a lot of this mentality has more to do with the popularity of American movies and other media, especially in the past 50 years. Also, European designers seem to set the stage around the globe, especially signifying “high status” and “success” if you own…fill in the blank…designer brand anything. Unfortunately, European colonialism has left its mark world-wide. I would expect this mentality to be especially strongly in Hong Kong since their colonialism was so recent.

    In America, older Asians (40’s and above) were raised to be as “American” (synonymous with white) as possible. This had much to do with the racist attitudes, especially with WW II fresh in non-Asians’ minds. Our parents were trying to protect us.

    Another issue is the gender disparity in Asian cultures (males superior to females), which sets the female psyche to believe that she truly is inferior, not just to Asian males, but in general. Then add in the Asian children who were adopted by white parents, especially, Chinese girls.

    So why would we (Asian females) have a lower self-esteem, no matter where we live? (sarcasm)

  2. That reminds me of that Mad Man episode where the kid suggested marketing Admiral televisions to the “Negro” market. The dumb CEO said something to the effect of “I’d like to think that the Negro market likes our televisions because white people buy them.”

  3. It’s almost as if Asian people are programmed via genetics to be inferior to whites. However, the answer to the questions are plain view, Byron.

  4. AF’s have lower self-esteems than … well… everybody. Hence high suicide rates. Hence hot AF’s lowering their standards and going out with goofy ass WM’s who on face value are complete losers.

    As a whole AF’s have lower self-esteems than even Asian men (which is pretty bad considering how much Asian men whine and complain). It’s a pain in the ass being an Asian woman, because you got to deal with racist BS, sexist BS, and racist-sexist BS all mixed together. Then there are the cultural and family obligations you got deal to with as an Asian woman, which can be overwhelming.

    Obviously this inferiority complex is nothing new, and it’s not particular to the Chinese. The Japanese have always had a Eurocentric fetish ever since their doors were pried open by Commodore Perry. China had a rude awakening when she realized she wasn’t the center of the universe and the “barbarians” were at the gates. Filipinos worship Jesus Christ, made in the image of a white guy. The United States has played big brother in the Philippines, South Korea, Vietnam and Taiwan.

    As Lisa has said, Asian countries have a long in which to recover from European and American colonialism.

  5. Of course, the entire world was colonized by the Europeans in their era of expansion.

    But, do you think that colonization has taken a greater toll (psychologically) among the Asian peoples, than it has elsewhere? And if so, why?

  6. But, do you think that colonization has taken a greater toll (psychologically) among the Asian peoples, than it has elsewhere? And if so, why?

    Who knows? One could argue that European colonialism has taken a greater toll psychologically on Africans and African Americans, since their connection to their African heritage has been broken by slavery. At least Asians can refer to the history of their ancestral countries and point out their cultural legacies.

    But I will say that Asians are psychologically more malleable than other peoples, because our ancestral cultures stress conformity and assimilation. Obviously, this is a gross generalization, but Asians tend to accommodate and yield to white privilege.

    Byron’s right: what’s the point of having greater numbers and greater economic influence if the people from our ancestral lands are still mentally colonized?

  7. This is sad but true.But theres more to the truth.

    A few weeks ago over lunch I spoke to a friend. Hes a PRC mainlander, educated, intelligent and middleclass. He has his MBA and his own successful small business(and his only 25).

    As we were eating, an tall, sort of goodlooking(for a white person) white male walked past with his equally tall and but not so good looking Asian girlfriend.

    Suddenly he turns and askes me “Do you think white people are the best?”. Taken aback, I asked “”What do you mean?””. Hes never asked me anything like that before, in fact we never speak about anything of this nature, not IR, not racism, not discrimination, not politics. usually weve just spoken about business or social things. He replied;

    Steve: Do you believe theres an order?
    Anna123: Like what?
    Steve: Like white people at the top, then Chinese, then Black people at the bottom.

    Anna123: Who told you this? who have you been speaking to? where did this come from? (I was still so suprised that he suddenly started speaking like this-after 3 years of friendship, hes NEVER spoken like this to me before, about anything of this kind of thing)

    Steve: Do you?
    Anna123: No. Everyones equal.
    Steve: Theres a famous scientist that said that White people are the most advanced people. Chinese are second, and Blacks are last.
    Anna123: Is he white? He sounds like a white person.
    Steve: Yes
    Anna123: See?! hes white! what do you expect him to say??!, Of COURSE HES GOING TO SAY WHITES ARE THE BEST!!
    Steve: So you dont believe?
    Anna123: No. Dont tell me you believe in this that shit.
    Steve: Yes, I believe.
    Anna123: Why? hes lying, its not true. Seriously, he might be a scientist but he making it all up. Hes probably racist against Asians and Blacks. Why you believe?

    Steve: Because they are the richest and most powerful countries.
    Anna123: So when China becomes the most richest and powerful country in the world, then what will you think?

    Steve: Then Chinese will be at the top.

    Somewhat relieved that he based the concept of superiority on material wealth(and not on inherent genetics) but still somewhat disturbed by the whole conversation, I let the subject drop. We havent spoken about this kind of thing again, partly because it was awkward and i dont know what to say to him, and partly because he sees nothing wrong with it.

    Later I found out that the “”scientist”” he had heard about was the “”social scientist”” Steve Sailor from the “”Human Biodiversity Institute””

    http://www.isteve.com

    http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/jade7243/2009/04/steve-sailer-a-contemporary-ra.php

    (Like I thought, the guy IS white, and he IS biased against Asians and Blacks. And Latinos. And gay people. And Immigrants.)

  8. In regards to Asian people taking “a greater toll (psychologically)” than others globally, I don’t think this is true. I think all who are colonized are affected negatively. There are times the human spirit will show how incredible it can be by defying physics in regards to overcoming environmental conditions. But generally, most that face extreme adversity are going to be negatively affected by it.

    I think we are more critical about ourselves (or own race, gender, family, etc) than anyone else. So I think that perceptually, we can think Asians are more malleable than others, but I don’t think this is necessarily true either.

    As far as taking on racial order in regards to superiority, this is definitely taking on European racist views. Asians wrapping themselves in material wealth and status in order to feel better about themselves, and for others to view them as successful, is just as prevalent as anyone else who has been able to blaze a path to gain access to these things. The unfortunate thing is that I feel people are losing their humanity in trying to “arrive”. What the almighty dollar is able to attain for one’s self and family is breaking us into more isolation and competition. This is where the tactic of divide and conquer becomes the easiest to achieve.

    This plays right into what Byron’s blog is about…Why are European models replacing Chinese models to begin with? It’s all about the almighty dollar and the perception of “success”. It’s sadly become the Holy Grail.

    Between history (colonization, Christianity and early renaissance art, and effective marketing, the Europeans have worked their way into many societies; hence their psyche.

  9. “But I will say that Asians are psychologically more malleable than other peoples, because our ancestral cultures stress conformity and assimilation. Obviously, this is a gross generalization, but Asians tend to accommodate and yield to white privilege.

    Byron’s right: what’s the point of having greater numbers and greater economic influence if the people from our ancestral lands are still mentally colonized?”

    Orientals have a serious problem with being mentally colonized–though they will rarely admit it and indeed rationalize it.

    The high prevalence of plastic surgery (like eyelid surgery) among Orientals in the USA and Asia is one example of this.

    And colonialism is not just military, economic, or political domination.

    It’s cultural, psychological–even sexual.

    And the age of Western colonialism never ended. It continues today behind different masks.

    They call it “Globalization,” or the “War on Terrorism,” or funniest of all “spreading freedom and democracy.”

    “We need validation from White people in order to see ourselves. This bias exists in literature too–writers don’t become big unless their books have tons of blurbs by White writers.”

    Sadly, certain Orientals are desperate for a pat on the head from Whites.

    It makes them feel fully human–but only temporarily.

    In China, what you see are the aesthetic “tastes” of the Western ass-kissing elites. It’s similar to much of the Developing world, where the elites are often wannabe White people in all but name

    For activists, it’s important to call this sh*t out, offer an alternative aesthetic, and represent a different way of living and being.

  10. Maybe it’s just plain human nature. Everyone loves a winner and throughout modern history, white Europeans and Americans have been the winners militarily, economically, and socially. Ask yourself what kind of people you’re attracted to: the powerful and successful or the weak and impotent? Nobody aspires to be a failure. Nobody picks losers to be role models. And people, being such wonderful stereotyping creatures, will associate other people with the success (and failures) of their communities, and their countries.

    One of the effects of modernization is measuring human development in a linear time line. This places societies into something similar to a footrace of “progress”, tallying everything like material wealth, military power, social freedom, cultural influence, etc., and ranking them accordingly. Practically every country that modernizes joins this race. And if you’re in 1st place in any competition, you get the prestige and respect of those around you. Those who are behind will try to emulate and achieve the same success. Because they sure as hell don’t want to be like the guy in last place.

  11. I want to add to my above comments: as a result of such a race, whites have the clear honor of being in first place because their societies are ahead of everyone in terms of global power and influence. As a result, they have clout all over the world. It’s not just the Chinese wanting to be white (and having an inferiority complex). Blacks, Latinos, South Asians, every other non-white have a similar inferiority complex. Look at the media from around the world. Look at the lightness of skin color of their supermodels and actors compared to the rest of the population.

    I say that everyone else, not just the Chinese, live under the shadow of white western hegemony. So I don’t buy that Asians are particularly more “malleable”. That’s just internalized racism at work. That’s looking for external reasons to justify your own lack of self-esteem.

  12. @LisaG
    “This plays right into what Byron’s blog is about…Why are European models replacing Chinese models to begin with? It’s all about the almighty dollar and the perception of “success”. It’s sadly become the Holy Grail.

    Between history (colonization, Christianity and early renaissance art, and effective marketing, the Europeans have worked their way into many societies; hence their psyche.”

    @Leon,
    “Ask yourself what kind of people you’re attracted to: the powerful and successful or the weak and impotent? Nobody aspires to be a failure. Nobody picks losers to be role models. And people, being such wonderful stereotyping creatures, will associate other people with the success (and failures) of their communities, and their countries.”

    So basically the POCs of the world today are inheriting the scraps off the table in the systems set up by their former colonisers……thats a pretty depressing picture ;(

    Some people such as House oF Whoreship think that you have to destroy the current system and replace it, its unsalvageable. But realistically, thats not going to happen, not from the inside.

    The only way forward is to work with what youve got and try to make little steps forward in the right direction,….maybe you cant fix everything, but you can at least make a little improvement so you leave a world thats better for your children than the one you inherited!!

    Culture is the Answer! Culture can Change hearts and minds of a better way!!

  13. I think ALL people (including white people) have work to do in regards to how they view themselves and others. We’re all human and have hang-ups, no matter what race or economic status we’re talking about.

    As far as colonizers go, POC’s have also colonized each other, so it’s not just a white & POC thing. But yeah…we are working from systems that mostly are broken, one way or another. I’ve heard of some who say scrap the whole thing, and I’ve heard of others who say we need to improve the current. I’m an advocate of both. I think we need to work on the current system from both the inside and the out to do damage control. Then I think communities need to be proactive and build community and systems that work for them specifically. The more we learn how to do things that work for ourselves, the more we can affect the system in place.

    I agree that we should make our world a better place Anna. It’s all about figuring out what our passion and capacity is and then getting involved. So here’s a great plug for Thymos!! Thanks for your great discussion starter Byron!

  14. I think I’ve boiled down a lot of my anger regarding many Asian American issues (and issues in general) to a simple lack of awareness. For people like us, meaning not just people of color but people of color with an active interest in issues like post-colonialism, media representation, etc., this complex and the accompanying article are not surprising in the least. However, for the vast VAST majority of people out there, including other people of color, I don’t think they fully understand the forces at play.

    Case in point, the tone of the WaPo article when describing the modeling phenomenon is somewhere between “this is cute” and “this is interesting.” It’s very naive. I don’t think the absence of any discussion of post-colonial mentalities or ethnocentric standards of beauty is intentional. I think the author merely doesn’t know/recognize the forces that cause tall, blonde, white models to be so popular in China. He just thinks, “hmm, that’s cool,” and I bet most of the readers do as well. Keep in mind this is one of the western world’s premier newspapers, and it has no idea what’s really happening. Like I told Byron when I forwarded the article to him, the commenters, for once, seem to be more enlightened than the author.

    In other words, one of the primary reasons that no one addresses post-colonial mentalities is because not many people are aware of their existence, and certainly not many people in positions to do something about it.

  15. Ahh…so you’re the start of all this, huh Etain? lol

    I was actually pondering the beginnings of skin color bias by Asians. I believe the darker skin was relating more to being a laborer; someone who spent a lot of time in the sun. So I believe originally it had more to do with classism than racism. But then with the advent of film, the racist stereotypes were spread.

    One little spoken truth is that Chinese men in America used to marry Black women back in the 1800’s when there were very few Chinese women in America. Unless he wanted to get lynched, he couldn’t think about marrying a white woman. I know an older Blasian (Black & Asian) gentleman who’s in his 80’s.

    I thought of another constant avenue for indoctrinating people with Eurocentric thought and behavior: education.

    So how do we overcome this? We need more aware and awake Asians in production roles in media (film, theater, artists, TV, magazines, newspapers, etc), education, politics, …. the list goes on …

    Your aspiration doesn’t have to be in any of the above mentioned do something now. Just get involved with Asian American groups like Thymos & APANO (Asian Pacific Network of Oregon). Sit on decision making committees for policy change. The very least we should all be doing is VOTING. If you’re not registered, do it now.

    Oh actually, the very least we should be doing is educating ourselves by keeping up on sites like this one.

    May 2010 be a year of awareness and wakening for Asians and all people. Happy New Year Everyone!!

  16. Anna123, how the hell do you always manage to find better ways to articulate the things I want to say? And ‘House of Whoreship’ is an awesome name. I can’t seem to find it, though. Does that site still exist? Your friend seem pretty knowledgeable about this stuff.

    But yeah, that’s pretty much it. People judge each other by their results. It may be harsh and unfair, but it’s a fact. And with globalization comes global competition. In every competition, you have leaders and you have losers. It doesn’t matter if the leaders ‘cheated’. What matters is that their politics and agendas shape the world. You cannot destroy such a system and start from scratch. Progress can only move forward.

    And when you measure progress by results, it’s easy to see how different countries and their people are ranked. Just look at standards of living, human rights, property rights, GDP, technological advances, Nobel prize winners, output of pop culture, etc. Look at where all the winners are on the global map. It’s no surprise when you start associating people with success and failures, many still cling to ideas of a genetic hierarchy.

  17. A little bit of China’s modern history: During the early late 1800s and early 1900s, Sun Yat-Sen saw a need for China to unify and modernize. He looked for the country that underwent the same social changes, had the best technology and strongest military of that time. Naturally, he found Germany. He became a great admirer of German society and technology. This prompted a short period of Sino-German cooperation prior to WW2. Some in the Chinese ruling circle even saw Fascism as a quick solution to China’s disunity.

    To counter the rising threat of Japan, German advisers were brought to China to help with its modernization. Chiang Kai-Shek wanted Germany to train the Chinese army and this resulted in 8 divisions of the best Chinese troops in his army. Before and during WW2, Chiang had German advisers from the Nazi party.

    Fast forward to present time. In 2002, China entered the World Cup for the first time thanks in part to the former US head coach Bora Milutinovic, who was the only man to have coached 4 different teams into the second round. In 2003, construction of the Olympic Stadium in Beijing went to the world renown Swiss architect, Herzog & de Meuron. In 2004, China completed the world’s only commercial magnetic levitation train built by Germany’s Deutsche Bundesbahn.

    What I’m trying to say is, China adopting western standards have little to do with Confucianism and ‘weak Chinese will’, and more to do with practicality. If you want to compete with the best, you learn from the best. Implementing white models allows China to be on the global stage, and compete with the Europeans who are currently the undisputed leaders of fashion. Because the sad fact is, right now the world doesn’t care about Chinese supermodels on the walkway or in commercials, and they won’t sell Chinese products.

  18. “But yeah, that’s pretty much it. People judge each other by their results. It may be harsh and unfair, but it’s a fact. And with globalization comes global competition. In every competition, you have leaders and you have losers.”

    Not exactly. Judging each other “by their results” would mean, looking at each person individually, examining their lives, and judging them on what they’ve accomplished in them. So, if you have a Black Supreme Court Justice, or brain surgeon, you would consider that individual to be a “winner”, based on his personal accomplishments. However, what you are advocating above is a system in which you lump all of the people who have roughly the same skin color, into one big category, and then judge them collectively, based on the collective accomplishments of all other people who you deem to share the same dermal color coding. That system is called “racism.”

    Evaluating an individual based on his/her accomplishments = good
    Judging all individuals who kind of look alike, all together, in one big lump = racism

  19. Oh god, this thread has nosedived pretty fast. Somehow it’s turned into using the excuse of practicality, capitalistic innovation and money making, and selling fashion to the world as an excuse for white worship.

    “Implement white models…” Really? What the fuck does hiring white models in China have to do with the fashion itself let alone fashion in China? China shouldn’t be trying to sell the models; they should be selling the fashion. So unless you accept that Chinese models are inferior or not saucy enough to sell fashion, then your whole talk about “learning from the best” and “adopting western standards” is bullshit. What does hiring white models in the middle of fucking China have to do with fashion and a true free market.

    Look, I don’t know much about fashion or trying to look white and rich…but maybe that’s the problem – Trying to adopt western standards. Why does China have to use Western taste and fashion as the measuring stick or reference point. Make your own fucking fashion. Yes, go to the best European design/ fashion schools and then use that knowledge to make your own high fashion. You can steal white taste and still make money without degrading the whole cultural progress of an entire country/race. You have all of China and Asia to market your shit. You have a self sustaining commercial and cultural market. The fashion industry when it comes to marketing and hiring your runway and print models is not like hiring European engineers to build a fucking Olympic stadium for christ’s sake. It is much more culturally and psychologically connected in how you value your own self image and self worth.

    So unless you are a money worshipping fool or you really have the need to worship whites or design fashon specifically for whites, your points are weak. Would white models in China make people say hmmm -‘If those clothes designed by a Chinese fellow is good enough for whites, then it is sure good enough for me’. And would whites look at clothes in China and say – ‘Wow! clothes in China do have value because white models wear them so well’ or would they say ‘how flattering the little yellow people see ourselves in them’…both of which would be very unfortunate.

    Nice going Leon. Talking in circles and ending back where you started. And btw, I never use any words lightly.

  20. “Look, I don’t know much about fashion or trying to look white and rich…but maybe that’s the problem – Trying to adopt western standards. Why does China have to use Western taste and fashion as the measuring stick or reference point.”

    Piggy backing on MT’s comments:

    The whole purpose of a fashion model is to demonstrate how the fashion will look on a living person. Of course, that has devolved a bit into idealizing certain “types” and “looks”on the runway, but it is still meant to say to the consumer, “You can look this good in my product.” But there still has to be some connection between the look of the models and that of the average consumer.

    Different colors, cuts, and fabric combinations, do not read the same on a six foot, blonde, Scandinavian, as they would on the average Chinese woman. It makes much more sense to use Chinese models for Chinese consumers. Why should Ukrainian women come to Asia and make thousands of dollars that could be payed to Chinese women? Are Europeans the only people in the world who need to pay their rent and put food on the table? All that this practice does is to reinforce the stereotype that White is the color of beauty.

  21. King- I agree with you, and I think you misread me, or I did not articulate my points clearly. That system I spoke of IS racist, but I’m not advocating it, merely pointing out the fact that is the very system that most people in the world go by. It is human nature to generalize others by their racial background and linking them to their communities and countries. Like I’ve said, it is not fair, or politically correct, but that is why we have a racial hierarchy that is not only adopted by whites, but also by colored people all around the world. Sure, many of those people have such a system forced upon them, but that is how things work right now.

    The reason why I brought it up is that, in any hierarchy, there will always be feelings of inferiority among those who are not at the top. And in this case, that means anyone who’s not white. So, it is not an ‘Asian inferiority complex’, it is simply a human inferiority complex that comes from being stuck in a race and not being in the front. All non-whites suffer from this. By attaching ‘Asian’ to it, and by what I’ve read in the comments so far, it is suggesting that it is something that only happens to Asians, that there is something inherently wrong with Asians that does not afflict anyone else. That only makes things worse.

  22. mT- How am I making excuses? White worship IS practical, innovative, and makes money. Why else would everybody be doing it? I’m not a money worshiping fool, but I can bet most of those fashion designers are. I don’t accept that Chinese models are inferior and not saucy enough, but the rest of the world does. You must be incredibly naive to think that attaching whiteness does not bring any sort of advantage or privilege to your brand. And you must be even more naive to think that China, right now, can compete globally in anything without adopting to the rules that everyone else plays by. The term, ‘Made in China’, is still used as a derogatory joke by everyone to symbolize cheap craftsmanship and human exploitation.

    You don’t think the people in China who are marketing their products think about this stuff? You must assume that every Chinese is an ignorant cracker chaser who’s not ‘racially aware’ like you are. Drop that fucking attitude. Fact is, white fashion models have values and privileges attached to them just like any successful construction or engineering company with a pedigree. Does it take a genius to figure out that white beauty is the standard for beauty around the world? I’m not saying that this is right, I’m just point out what IS. White people WILL sell more products, even among Asians and especially to those who are NOT Asians.

    Maybe you think that it is enough if the Chinese just create products for each other and insulate themselves from the outside world. They’ve tried that before, and look what happened. Perhaps they’ve learned from history. Perhaps they are working for a larger slice of pie and they see whiteness as access to the rest of the world. Influence will happen only AFTER you’ve attained success, not by having an attitude.

  23. “In other words, one of the primary reasons that no one addresses post-colonial mentalities is because not many people are aware of their existence, and certainly not many people in positions to do something about it.”

    I think in general awareness is always a problem. However, there are different levels of awareness. I think most people Asians and non Asian alike are aware to some degree of the concepts and ideas we discuss on BigWOWO everyday. But it takes more than surface awareness to really acknowledge and accept the ideas, reasonings, and root causes of a lot of what we talk about. Then it takes even more to counter act those forces we discuss in our everyday lives, world view, and interactions with society. It takes more than just awareness. Some people might be aware and dismissive at the same time. Some people are fine with their lives, not being able to see past their upper middle class, support the token Asian flavor of the month, crate and barrel shopping, BMW driving living. Case in point is some of the comments made to this topic alone.

    The real problem is having critical mass to make the points of that awareness relevant and tangible to everyday people to the point where things must change. And of course the only way things change and systems change is through in depth thought processes and the actions and will power of the people in those systems. All that sounds very abstract and corny yes when everyone is living like fat cats (sorta speak). And I am not articulating anything more profound than that. But it is true that it takes a little more thought process and commitment than just awareness in order to be an agent of change.

  24. Ahh! I see your point now.
    Sorry to have misunderstood your meaning the first time around!

    I agree that it’s not just an Asian thing, it is universal. However, at this point, many Asian cultures seem to be at a certain point in the continuum of racial attitudes, that represents a crossroads of sorts. But certainly, all colonized cultures suffer from a kind of collective Stockholm Syndrome.

    I feel that many Asian cultures are in a particularly Anglo-centric period that will soon lead to a home grown backlash, followed by a more balanced adjustment of attitude. The new attitudes will be defined by questions such as these:

    1) If I’m spending my money on your product, why shouldn’t people who look like me be represented in your ads?

    2) What makes you believe that your definition of human beauty should translate universally into my culture?

    3) What gives you the right to redefine my cultural icons into the context of your own aesthetic?

    They are the same questions that we all must ask.

  25. “King- I agree with you, and I think you misread me, or I did not articulate my points clearly……merely pointing out the fact that is the very system that most people in the world go by.”

    “White worship IS practical, innovative, and makes money. Why else would everybody be doing it?”….and on and on…

    @Leon and his rant.

    Oh,was that all you were doing? – Pointing out the obvious? Lol! Thanks for sharing Mr. I Am Not AS Naive As You And Therefore I Subscribe to the Notion of White Worship. Good to know. Hmmm, seems like you get misread a lot.

    “Influence will happen only AFTER you’ve attained success, not by having an attitude.” – Oh, is that how you came up in the world? Oh, okay, I totally understand how you define success now. Crystal clear. Thanks for sharing. Sorry about the attitude Mr. I Made it to the Top By Being Best Friends With Whites and Acknowledging Their Marketing Power Simply Because They Are White. Hope I didn’t offend you are your white cronies. Happy New Year and may the snow fall where you’re at be as white and pure as your logic and talent for pointing out the obvious. Lol.

  26. “But it is true that it takes a little more thought process and commitment than just awareness in order to be an agent of change.”

    I agree with you mT. So I’d like to ask you and everyone else, what are your thoughts on how we can implement this change? I see this is a long term strategy, but am wondering how you and others would see this happening.

  27. BTW Leon, nice spin.

    “Fact is, white fashion models have values and privileges attached to them just like any successful construction or engineering company with a pedigree. Does it take a genius to figure out that white beauty is the standard for beauty around the world? I’m not saying that this is right, I’m just point out what IS. White people WILL sell more products, even among Asians and especially to those who are NOT Asians.”

    It doesn’t take a genius, yes I agree. But it sure takes an idiot to actually use ‘pointing out the obvious’ as some sort of argument when called out. So if you agree it’s not right, then what the fuck is your point. That Chinese marketing is genius because of the obvious? I love the circles you draw.

  28. I’d say that in recent decades particularly, the White racist power establishment (which is not comprised of all the White individuals in the world) has been offering a certain “Faustian deal” to the eastern Asian cultures. The essence of the deal goes as follows:

    “If you will back us Whites up on our established racial hierarchy, then you can be our Number 2 on the list!
    See, here’s the list:”

    1. White People
    2. East Asians
    3. Hispanics
    4. Brown Asians
    5. Arab types
    5. American Indians
    6. Black people

    “You can live a nice, successful, life in close proximity to many fine Europeans, and hey, number 2 ain’t so bad, right? We’ll even marry your hot women as a show of good faith (but ours will be off limits to you!!!) All you have to do is agree with us that everybody else is inferior.”

    We hope we can count on your support. :-)

    FOR WHITE EYES ONLY

    The real list:

    1. White people
    ——————————-
    2. Other inferior people

  29. mT- My point is that what the Chinese are going through is similar to what many other non-whites go through, and ultimately inevitable. I point out the obvious because these symptoms are fairly common and the thought process behind the decision to chose white models are no different than the reasons why many industries operated by other colored people chose white to represent them. There is no Asian-only inferiority complex. Asians are no more vulnerable to it than anybody else. Yet some of the comments suggest otherwise, making Asians seem ‘weaker’ in comparison, like we’re the only ones with this problem.

  30. Everyone- I have a tendency to rant and if I wasted your time with my long postings, I apologize.

    mT- I do not mean to excuse or support white worship. If I did that in my comments, then I was wrong.

  31. On what bases are these sweeping, accusatory generalizations made? “Asian women have lower self-esteem than women of any other races… Asian women feel more inferior in white society than Asian men…” (paraphrasing) None of the rants here are constructive.

    All women deal with self-esteem issues, more so than men. Most men I know, Asians inclusive, are convinced they are better-looking, stronger, smarter, more capable than they actually are. Most women look in the mirror, regardless of their race, and are horrified. “Wow, this is too blah, and that is too meh, and I sure wish I was more…” Asian women don’t have any more or less of an inferiority complex than anyone else. To make these proclamations is to be blind, feel the leg of an elephant, and declare that all elephants are shaped like the trunk of a tree. You’re missing the bigger picture and the bigger (still race-based) issues at play.

    The global fashion industry, like any number of other global industries, is still white-dominated because, yes, imperialism, colonialism, and all the other fun -isms we learned about in critical race theory rendered the trends coming out of Europe to be the model trends for all others to follow. Fashion has always been dictated by those at the top of the food chain, be that 18th century royalty or today’s celebutantes.

    True, most Asian designers use non-Asian models because they don’t want to pigeon-hole themselves as “for an Asian clientele only.” They’re still trying to make sure they capture the white buyers market. Whites are still at the top of the food chain. Again, not narrowly an Asian-female-inferiority-complex issue. The phenomenon of designers needing white society’s validation is, as Byron pointed out in the post, exactly like the phenomenon of writers, regardless of color, needing the white literati’s validation to win awards and generate sales.

    I am hopeful, however, that the world is rapidly changing. For some time now, Tokyo street trends and the harijuku girls have been dominating the world fashion stage, influencing European styles. Beijing, interestingly enough, is also beginning to emerge as another trend-setting capital, though that evolution/revolution is still formative. Here in America, Asian American designers are taking the industry by storm, not just Jimmy Choo, Vera Wang, and Anna Sui, but Alexander Wang, Jerry Tam, Jason Wu, Katherine Kwei, Vivienne Tam, Twinkle by Wenlan, Doo-Ri, Tulah Ray, Chia New York, Peter Som, SHIH, Bliss Lau, among some.

    And you should all be ashamed of yourselves for the race ranking that’s going on above. What was THAT all about?!

  32. @King
    ” All that this practice does is to reinforce the stereotype that White is the color of beauty.”

    @mT
    “Somehow it’s turned into using the excuse of practicality, capitalistic innovation and money making, and selling fashion to the world as an excuse for white worship…… Trying to adopt western standards. Why does China have to use Western taste and fashion as the measuring stick or reference point.”

    In PRC, and among Mainlanders(among those whove never been outside PRC, or just came), Western = Modern. Western = High technology. Western= High Class and Priviledge. Western = Educated. Western=WHITE.

    Western also= Arrogance, Violence, Bullying, and Force.

    If youve ever spoken/lived with mainlanders or on PRC mainland, this is how they view the west, and white people. The culture of Mainlanders views the West and whites in this way. Its an interesting/ffed up way of thinking, but to Mainlanders, the West is Development, while PRC is still a Third world developing country.

    I’m not going to explain why I think this is, but I will say it does explain why they use white models. However to be fair, the world financial and economic systems that were originally set up by colonial Europeans(Systems built upon Colonialism, Slavery, European supremacy and white power) are still in place today.

    PRC and Mainlanders only started growing their economy by trading with the America and the West. In other words they traded their way into the economic system that was already in place throughout the globe. Due to history, the system they became a part of was based on European/white supremacy. And now 30 years later after opening up theyre using white models instead of Chinese ones in advertising. See the roots mT?

    white power system(WPS)->PRC entry into WPS->adoption of white standards(set by WPS) in PRC-> white models in PRC advertising

    PRC already tried to develop an total alternative system (along with Russia). They failed. Their economy tanked. It made them weaker, and set their society back. They had no choice but to conform to the systems based on white supremacy. But so be it;Deng was right: “it doesnt matter, white cat or black, as long as it catches the mice”. PRC is a better place today because they opened up their economy and traded their way into the world financial and economic system built on white supremacy. Many things have gotten better. Overall physical Standards of living have increased, 300 million people lifted out of UN defined poverty since 1983 alone. And Since PRC opened up and played by the rules set up by the whites, they actually have increased their chances of surpassing and ultimately dominating/leading the west/the world. Sure, it will be leading a world system built upon te foundations of white supremacy and colonialism, but leading nonetheless. Think about it, What choice did they have? first there was the Opium War, then 5 nation War of Occupation, then War with Japan, then Civil War, then War against U.S in Korea, then War against U.S in Vietnam, then Skirmishes against USSR and its proxy in Vietnam. They either lost or achieved almost phyrric victories in all. They had no choice, they chose to SURVIVE, and since they did, they have the chance to ultimately change the destiny of human civilisation.

    Its not right, its not fair. It just is. Its not an excuse for whiteworship. Its just that they failed to create a viable alternative economic and financial system in total opposition to the west. Instead, they became part of the system, in order to survive and hopefully beat it.

    Leon
    “White worship IS practical, innovative, and makes money. Why else would everybody be doing it? I’m not a money worshiping fool, but I can bet most of those fashion designers are. I don’t accept that Chinese models are inferior and not saucy enough, but the rest of the world does. You must be incredibly naive to think that attaching whiteness does not bring any sort of advantage or privilege to your brand. And you must be even more naive to think that China, right now, can compete globally in anything without adopting to the rules that everyone else plays by”

    You have a very similiar post colonial view to the House of Whoreship Blog. Its written by a future assistant cult leader called Maloy, a Filo born Chinese/Taiwanese Aboriginal goldsmith and former record label assistant who now works as a school teacher in HK. I think she also used to write on Fighting 44s (as Bryon informed me). Shes not really my friend, more like my idol/ MESSIAH, hahaha, I’m just a random dumbass who reads her blog lol.

    Her original blog is here;

    http://www.seefat.blogspot.com/

    But her new blog is invite only, its here;

    http://seefatt.blogspot.com/

    If you stay humble and ask her nicely, maybe she might send you an invite. But be warned, you might get a nosebleed when reading her blog!!!lol!!

  33. Thanks for the history lesson Anna, but I don’t think it was necessary. I don’t disagree with some of what you have said or for that matter what Leon has stated. I do disagree with the sentiment of “oh, well, that’s just the way it is” and “it was the only way because look at all the progress made”. And I am not talking about the choice between communism and capitalism either. I also disagree with the strong connection you are trying to make between having a successful economy (through heathly capital markets, good banking system and strong monetary policy) and branding your products (specifically in this case fashion) in the image of whites in every aspect within your own country. You are talking about two wholely separate things.

    And certainly, there are other more efficient business approaches of adopting “white systems” as you put it to capture the white market than putting up exclusively white faces on billboards, catwalks, ads, and commercials all within freaking mainland China. You must not be a very good branding/ marketing executive if your best move is to white wash your brand.

  34. Byron, I think you should use Amuro Namie as an example to the “inferiority complex” you are talking about. Most models and other celebrities have had multiple plastic surgeries so that they DON’T look Asian – and marketed to others as “Asian” standard of beauty. So we Asian females are told that, to be beautiful as Asian women, we need to look more Caucasian, with eyes torn apart and resewn to be as big as Amuro Namie’s, nose bridges lifted up for better “3D” profiles, lips filled out more, cheekbones raised. Rampant plastic surgeries to look more Caucasian and rampant praises for “Asian” beauties who don’t even look Asian do make it hard for many Asian women to feel confident that the features they were given naturally are beautiful, not just on global level but also, within our own race.

  35. @mT
    “”I also disagree with the strong connection you are trying to make between having a successful economy (through heathly capital markets, good banking system and strong monetary policy) and branding your products (specifically in this case fashion) in the image of whites in every aspect within your own country. You are talking about two wholely separate things””

    Sorry about the History part, i was just trying to explain my rationale , why i came to this position….No disrespect to you mT, I agree with your sentiments, however i argue they not seperate things, they are in fact strongly related.

    “”And certainly, there are other more efficient business approaches of adopting “white systems” as you put it to capture the white market than putting up exclusively white faces on billboards, catwalks, ads, and commercials all within freaking mainland China. You must not be a very good branding/ marketing executive if your best move is to white wash your brand””

    They are trying to sell to the local market as well, not just the white market. Like i said before, white has certain associations. ITs not right, and i dont agree with it, but thats how it is, its how they do business. I understand why they do it, and im not going to hate on them for it. As House of Whoreship would say; We’re all victims, we’re all colonial dogs!.

  36. mT- I agree there are other ways to market a product if the playing field is level, but it is not. You believe adopting white standards is a choice, but I don’t think it is.

    Also (and I direct this to all of us in general), I believe we tend to unfairly apply our western ideals and standards to other countries. At the risk of making another obvious statement: China is not America. Socially speaking, they’re probably a 100 years behind, if not more, and still at least 50 years behind economically. It may be frustrating to watch them toe the pool of social injustices and racial inequalities while those of us in America have swam across those waters many years ago, but the fact remains that, as a society, they’re still new at this.

    30 years ago, China was a nobody, much less a market that get to shop for European blondes to sell products. I’m sure many Chinese are aware of the racial issues that the world faces, but have not the time or the ability to properly address them. Dealing with racial equality is a luxury that a country can afford only after its basic needs are met: like keeping the people fed and educating them. You can call me a cop-out, but I can also say your standards is just a way of flexing your western privilege. It is unfair to blame Asians in Asia for the problems Asians have in America.

    Even if Asia gets brought up to speed, you still have other developing countries moving at their own pace. Until the entire world can properly challenge the white hegemony, the racial hierarchy will remain. This is something that will be slowly negotiated over a period of centuries, not in during our lifetime.

  37. Anna, I disagree.

    Leon wrote : “mT- I agree there are other ways to market a product if the playing field is level, but it is not. You believe adopting white standards is a choice, but I don’t think it is.”

    Sigh, really? Why is your vision limited to a strict definition of the word marketing? There are other much more intelligent and effective long term sustainable strategies that can be used instead. A few broad examples are:
    1. to have spin offs or create subsidiaries of the main fashion corporation that caters specifically to whites,
    2. have fashion houses established outside of China that caters to local ‘White’ taste,
    3. form alliances and partnerships with European/US brands and retail chains to market to mainland China. Depending on the specifics, these alliances will also introduce and break in Chinese design houses to Europe/ US,
    4. along the same lines as the second part of #3, if you’re a Chinese design company, become part of the supply chain of a Western distributor/ brand name. Become that’s fashion brand name designer/distributor’s back office design house.
    5. Get shelf space at Chinese retailers like Li & Fung who sell mainly Western fashion,
    6. Hire both white, black, yellow, whatever models. Don’t make it so obviously ridiculous. Even within the actual visual marketing itself, there are ways to subconsciously diminish the importance of whites and bolster the image of Asians in the minds of the Chinese consumers.
    7. etc, etc, etc.

    What is with this adopting white standards mentality. What standards are you exactly referring to? I think your argument that China is “so many years behind the US in terms of everything and therefore we should give them a break” is very weak and short sighted one even if you’re a money grubbing business baffoon with no self-respect (and I am not talking about you personally). As a business person, corporation, entity, the better decision is always to maximize profits for long term sustainable profits, not to maximize profits for short-term windfall. And one of the best way to do that is to cultivate roots withing your own country. Like I said there is a large enough market in Asia for all of this to happen without sacrificing profits and market share which will come in due time.

    Like you said if change happens (not necessarily over centuries) but over a long time, why is the Chinese fashion industry trying to short cut that by hiring no name white models? You can’t excuse their stupidity. Yes, we have privilege speaking from where we speak from. But change didn’t just happen by everyone just sitting around saying “oh, well, it’s just the way it is….give it some time”.

    Also, it’s funny how you mention that “dealing with racial equality is a luxury that a country can afford only after its basic needs are met: like keeping the people fed and educating them”. So what the fuck is China doing meddling in high fashion? Don’t they have people to feed and educate first? This whole discussion has become warped because fashion is probably the shallowest industries in the world. It’s ironic and sad that we’re all here debating how it’s okay China can be ignorant and hire white models to do classy run way shows because they need to feed and educate their people first. Don’t you see anything fucked up with that logic?

    Anyway, I had more to say but it slipped my mind. Next time.

  38. mT, I think I might just be more cynical than you are. In my opinion, very few people of any color are aware of post-colonial mentalities, regardless of level of education or intelligence.

    I lived and worked in the Pacific islands for three years. Everything that we’re discussing here also applies there, minus the fashion modeling industry for obvious reasons. However, inferiority complexes, white standards of beauty, etc. are just as prevalent there as they are in Asia. Skin whitening creams, hair bleaching, consuming western media, emulating western dress are all practiced, especially by young people, and especially by socially mobile young people.

    I originally went as part of a volunteer teaching program full of young, college educated, liberal minded do-gooders. Of course I immediately picked up on the colonial legacy, while my co-volunteers managed to scratch the surface at best. Most thought they received special treatment because they were guests and that the indigenous population were very hospitable. A few concluded that they received special treatment because they are white. No one, except a couple of the people of color, even bothered to ask WHY people were treated better because they were white, let alone understand the vestigial effects of colonialism.

    I’ve had similar conversations with friends/colleagues who work abroad in other locations, and there’s a lot of naivete, i.e. “Oh the people were so nice! They were fascinated with me! I think they really liked me because I’m different!” They just don’t get that there are deeper forces at play and more layers to the social fabric.

  39. Some people, they actively and consciously embrace White standards of beauty and attractiveness. They believe in the Aryan asethetic.

    For most people, however, this process works more subtly. These people embrace mainstream definitions of beauty–never questioning that these standards of beauty are not “universal” or “objective” but rather White Eurocentric definitions.

    They may not overtly uphold Whiteness=Beautiful, but it is implicit in their perspective.

    Hence, you see ridiculous comments like those found in the article that “The foreign models’ faces are much more three-dimensional…. They look nicer in pictures.”

    No flat-faced, flat-nosed Asian look for that fashionista.

    And personally, I don’t think Amuro Namie is one of the “most beautiful women in the world.”

    Her eyes are too round.

    She looks like an anime cartoon character with saucer eyes….

  40. mT,

    These Chinese companies that only hire white models to sell clothes dont give a f*ck about racial equality. They only want to make money. They are making money by exploiting existing discriminatory class and racial classifications.

    The “problem” is Chinese consumers themselves, who see white models as meaning high class and wealth. And they do that because of the state of PRCs sociocultural development. If the companies do as you say, they’ll go out of business, no customers will go to them.

    The only way to combat this is to change PRC culture, but thats can only be done by PRCs themselves, not outsiders like us. It really isnt the place of AAs or Westernised Asians to tell Asians from Asia how to run their countries, or business practices. If we do that, we are just replicating the priviledge and racial categories whites use when they go to Asia and do the same thing.

  41. “The only way to combat this is to change PRC culture, but thats can only be done by PRCs themselves, not outsiders like us. It really isnt the place of AAs or Westernised Asians to tell Asians from Asia how to run their countries, or business practices. If we do that, we are just replicating the priviledge and racial categories whites use when they go to Asia and do the same thing.”

    Well said Anna. Thank you!

    Mama Nabi addresses another part of “inferiority complex” that is rampant in Asia, as well as in America (and probably other countries). People are constantly changing the way they look, which could be okay if you truly have a defect. But Asian women getting eye-lid surgery to “correct” their eyes to look more Western…tell me what’s wrong with this picture? And this has been a practice well before plastic surgery was a common practice in mainstream America.

    As others have said here, this is not an Asian only issue. It’s a human issue of people wanting to be something they’re not. Like Black folks lightening their skin and straightening their hair. White folks getting perms and tanning themselves year around. We all have identity issues and nobody seems to be happy with who they are, let alone even KNOW who they are or what they really want to be.

    Somebody wrote something to the effect of “everyone is a victim”. I agree with this in the sense that we are all born into or exist within a system we didn’t create. But we can either whine and rant about it, or we can identify what works and what doesn’t; then set out to find a solution for what doesn’t work.

    It’s about educating/planting seeds. BE THE CHANGE you want to see. So again, mT talked about being Change Agents. I see this as education to raise awareness/plant seeds, developing leaders, creating a movement. Does anyone agree? If not, what would you do differently? Basically, what are your ideas for creating change?

  42. mT- Look, I don’t disagree with you that there are other ways to run a business. I’m just trying to see it from their perspective. Maybe some of these Chinese businessmen believe that adopting white standards IS a long term strategy. Maybe they see how the world is dominated by whites and will remain that way for a long time, and the advantages of having whites promoting your product. Maybe they see other countries also adopting these standards and fear they’ll fall to global competition if they don’t do the same. Or maybe they’re just a bunch of shortsighted money grubbing white worshipers. I believe it’s a mix of all of the above.

    I agree change doesn’t happen with everybody waiting for it to happen. On the other hand, it is unfair for us to assume that everyone over there is just sitting around, waiting for things to happen. My saying that they’re years behind us isn’t an excuse for them to abandon their responsibilities. I just believe they’re going through the same things this country was going through 60, 70 years ago, and they have to deal with the problems their way and have their own priorities. They will be making mistakes and learn from them. Our cause is not theirs.

    “Don’t you see anything fucked up with that logic?”

    No, I don’t see anything fucked up about it. Or at least anymore fucked up than when the U.S. went through its industrial revolution, when there were huge gaps between the rich and poor, and when the country was struggling with the different needs of its population. Every other country went through or going through these transitional periods experience similar growing pains. Why should China be the exception?

    This is like the discussions with Lou Jing, and the anger and disbelief that followed when the issue brought China’s ugly racism to light. I can understand the outrage, because we all agree that racism is bad. But, why would people expect anything different? Why should the Chinese not be allowed to make the mistakes that everyone makes? Where do these expectations come from?

  43. I agree, in part, with much of what has been said about China being behind the U.S. on some social issues.

    However, there is a big difference in China’s case. Fifty years ago, U.S. business diversity meant that the janitors and elevator operators were Negro. It meant that Americans trusted Chinese people to do their laundry. And of course, the whole country looked to White people to do anything of real consequence. All the billboards were White, all the magazine ads, and all of the anchormen on T.V. But, of course, that all seemed quite natural because the United States was then, even more so than now, a White majority county. It was all based on predictable self-interest and self-promotion.

    The analog for China, would be for all the ads to be Chinese people, all the anchormen, and all of fashion models. But instead of acting like America, and favoring their own culture and people, above all others, China is favoring White people from Europe and the U.S. What’s funny is that you can’t even find that in American ads anymore. Diversity has become such a buzzword in U.S. advertising that every major corporation’s ads look like the floor of the United Nations—almost to an absurdity (*Naturally, I exempt Abercrombie & Fitch from this statement)

    What White America was saying, back in the day, was “We are the worldwide measure of beauty,” but what China is saying today is: “They (Whites) are the worldwide measure of beauty.” See the difference? They are rejecting their own aesthetic and are promoting a concept of White beauty that isn’t even pushed, to that degree anymore, by White people. The new cosmopolitan look of fashion reflects a diverse runway of models from all over the world. If the major fashion houses of Europe are using a bevy of ethnic models, can it really be true that Chinese designers can only make money when they import blondes from Ukraine? I’m not sure that this logic will hold.

  44. Fucking eh King, you beat me to it! Thank you for giving a voice of reason. I will respond and add more when I have time.

    Lol, funny enough the security words I have to type in to post this is “Whites feeling”.

  45. “The only way to combat this is to change PRC culture, but thats can only be done by PRCs themselves, not outsiders like us. It really isnt the place of AAs or Westernised Asians to tell Asians from Asia how to run their countries, or business practices. If we do that, we are just replicating the priviledge and racial categories whites use when they go to Asia and do the same thing.”

    Hey ana123 I understand what you’re saying here, but I’m not sure that I completely agree. The entire embracing of White culture as superior, was fomented by outsiders to begin with. The models who are being brought into China, are themselves, outsiders. I might be more inclined to agree with you if we were talking about Chinese culture, or customs, but this entire circumstance was foisted upon China from the outside, in the first place.

    Besides, the world is much more a global community than it was in past decades. It is the expression of opinion and the free flow of critique and praise across borders that affects everything from foreign policy to fashion. I believe that people of conscience worldwide, are as bound to take to task Chinese businesses as they are American, European, or Australian businesses. If we are not willing to do this, then we should also conclude that American culture should only be the concern of American citizens.

    We’re not talking about sending the military to China to force Chinese businesses to use their own people as models. We’re just voicing opinions that may trickle back to China (especially among young people) and perhaps change some of the prevailing attitudes. I would think that persons of Chinese descent, who live in the West, might be the most effective voices in that regard.

  46. Really, fuck you King! Stop being so on point. Always the magic Negro coming in to give voice to reason. Lol! Save some of the response for me.

    P.S. My new year’s resolution is to eliminate vulgar out of my vocabulary. Then maybe people will listen better.

  47. Another quick comment–Amuro Namie is 25% White. It’s not her fault her eyes look like that!

    (although I will say that perhaps it was a poorly chosen model on my end when I was trying to talk about Asian beauty. Oi…I thought she looked Asian!)

  48. King- I agree with pretty much everything you’ve said in your past two posts. I do not mean to make excuses for white worship but I guess that’s what I ended up doing and that’s wholly my fault. I brought up certain points with the intention to show how the China follows a path that’s not unlike what other countries with histories of being colonized take.

    White privilege isn’t an unnatural phenomenon that exists solely on its own account. Its power and attraction comes from the privileges (both real and imagined) that people believe they’ll gain by being attached to it with a huge cost to self identity and self-esteem (but that’s a different discussion). I say this because I believe those businessmen in China are fully aware of this when they made their decision; they weren’t just grasping blindly in the dark. It is right for you, mT, and others to call them to task for such a decision. I believe we should make positive changes and hope to spread that to the rest of the world through dialogue. As long as this is done with respect to the population in China and their struggles and not with contemptuous, “Those dumbass Asians….”

    To reiterate, China-and to an extent, Asia-suffer from the same problems that we do. There is no Asian Inferiority Complex anymore than than there is an Asian Racism Complex. They make dumb mistakes like everyone else because they’re only human.

  49. Fair enough, Leon.

    And really, I do understand the perceived benefits of tying into White supremacy as a psychological leverage for making money. I just believe that it’s wrong. The problem with upholding the tenets of the Anglocentric beauty standard are that it’s not a victimless crime. Nobody would care how much a person of color adored Whiteness if it didn’t have adverse implications to non-Whiteness. When you say (or demonstrate by your actions) that White skin is the standard of beauty, then you are also saying that dark skin is ugly. When you say that “round” eyes are the standard of desirability, then you are also saying that “slanted” eyes are undesirable. By abetting the White beauty standard, one also denigrates non-White people.

    I believe that China has a true opportunity coming. For the first time in history, they may emerge as the first non-White global superpower. But very much depends on the attitude of the Chinese. If China emerges as a culture of color, friendly and supportive of other non-White cultures, then they will be seen as a new and interesting alternative to the Anglocentric powers that have so dominated the globe for these past centuries. Many communities of color will welcome their ascendency and point to them as an example and possible ally.

    However, if China emerges as a country that is 60 years behind the U.S. in racial equality, then it will have far less support worldwide. Nobody wishes to simply replace White racists with Yellow racists. The issue has never been the color of the oppressor, but the reality of oppression itself. It would greatly benefit China to learn from the mistakes of the West and to offer the world an alternative to that system. This currency of good will is easily spent long after blood money has lost it’s value.

  50. @King
    “”The entire embracing of White culture as superior, was fomented by outsiders to begin with. The models who are being brought into China, are themselves, outsiders. I might be more inclined to agree with you if we were talking about Chinese culture, or customs, but this entire circumstance was foisted upon China from the outside, in the first place.””

    …….hmm……okay.

    “”We’re just voicing opinions that may trickle back to China (especially among young people) and perhaps change some of the prevailing attitudes. I would think that persons of Chinese descent, who live in the West, might be the most effective voices in that regard.””

    “”If China emerges as a culture of color, friendly and supportive of other non-White cultures, then they will be seen as a new and interesting alternative to the Anglocentric powers that have so dominated the globe for these past centuries””

    lol, its clear youve never lived in PRC, King. It also seems as though you havent any PRCs in your family either. In fact how many PRC Chinese people are you friends with or have at least spoken to??!! Not attacking you, but just the way you speak is so…um….innocent…lol

    PRC right now is like the American WildWest in the 1800s, except 100 times worst.The worst of Capitalism, and the worst of Communism existing at the same time. No rule of Law, only connections to the powerful matter. Its like a living hell, especially for those with no power. Pollution so bad you look up and sometimes cant even see the sky, forced evictions/land grabbing by powerful developers, secret cults popping up everywhere, different government departments murdering each other over land deals, exploitation of the workers with no consequence, Child kidnapping for profit, Slavery, Prisoners executed and people kidnapped to harvest them for their organs, all this in a land with no rule of law, no justice or legal recourses, where the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, people are too afraid to help someone up from the street if they fall down , in case the courts find them guilty of assault and force them to pay compensation. Do you know how much a harvested Cornea is worth King? $30,000 US dollars. Ones taken from prisoners are cheaper at $18-20,000 US dollars. You want to know the market price for a baby female on the blackmarket? its only $700.00 US dollars, alot cheaper than a males usually around 5000-6000.00 US dollars…

    PRCs dont give a f#ck about nothing and no one,not society, not morals, not justice. Only power, money and the power to make money. If youre close blood relatives then maybe you have a chance of being helped for free, but if not, then they better be able to profit from helping you otherwise youll get nothing.

    PRC development will not usher in a new era of harmony and social justice etc, its more likely to just replace white/euro supremacy with Han Chinese supremacy. Other Asians might be able to get some benefits and priviledges of that, – but sadly it will definitely be Han Chinese from PRC first….

  51. “lol, its clear youve never lived in PRC, King. It also seems as though you havent any PRCs in your family either. In fact how many PRC Chinese people are you friends with or have at least spoken to??!! Not attacking you, but just the way you speak is so…um….innocent…lol”

    Haha. No, I’ve never lived in the People’s Republic. My closest ties to it are several friends who have immigrated from there and now live here, and my brother who has an import business and flies to PRC twice a year. Of course, I’ve heard about the insane levels of pollution, the endemic corruption, the chaos. My brother was literally stepping over dead bodies on the sidewalk, on his last trip over there. But all of that really goes back to the current PRC government, more than anything else.

    But the actual people are another thing entirely. There are a lot of people who are hungry for a better life and are willing to work very hard or to make great sacrifices to become educated. The factory owners over there are remarkably innovative and find smart ways to get things done. Many citizens see the current establishment as a big part of their problems. So, I have hope. A LOT of things would have to change, and no one can say for certain that they will, but there is at least a chance that they will. Please notice that everything that I stated in my previous post was stated with very clear qualifiers. China will have a lot of choices to make, neither you nor I can know which they will choose.

    So… I guess we’ll just have to see.

  52. Anna wrote – “These Chinese companies that only hire white models to sell clothes dont give a f*ck about racial equality. They only want to make money. They are making money by exploiting existing discriminatory class and racial classifications….The only way to combat this is to change PRC culture, but thats can only be done by PRCs themselves, not outsiders like us. It really isnt the place of AAs or Westernised Asians to tell Asians from Asia how to run their countries, or business practices. If we do that, we are just replicating the priviledge and racial categories whites use when they go to Asia and do the same thing.”

    So King has expressed a lot of the things I was going to say. So this might be a little choppy. You, Anna and Leon, accept the things as they are which is fine. And just because we can’t do anything about it doesn’t mean we can’t be critical of China and its actions. In simply doing that we are doing something about it. You think it’s an all or nothing proposition. I don’t think it is. And you, Anna see the reality of China, its culture, its course in history for what it is, and base its future on this which is legitimate and fine. But don’t mix and use the “privilege and racial categories whites use”, a country’s sovereignty, and all that bullshit as some type of justification for apathy. Excuse me for thinking that we live in a global world and that if we as a global community established new standards maybe China will adopt those new standards just like the way they have adopted the “white” standard. And where does this ‘Western Asians have no business in Asia’ mentality come from? Why is there such a lost of connection to the motherland in so many western Asians? Everything is interconnected, past, present, and future.

    I don’t care if China gives a fuck about racial equality. Actually, I do but that’s a slightly different argument. Please refer to King’s analog. Unless, you’re saying that there is no hope at all for how China turns out, I am not sure where you are coming from. Please refer to later portions of this post. (Choppy)

    Anna wrote – “The “problem” is Chinese consumers themselves, who see white models as meaning high class and wealth. And they do that because of the state of PRCs sociocultural development. If the companies do as you say, they’ll go out of business, no customers will go to them.”

    I don’t believe this statement is true in the least bit. China is the biggest consumer and production market in the world. You don’t think that they yield any power or leverage at all in a global economy.

    Leon wrote – “I agree change doesn’t happen with everybody waiting for it to happen. On the other hand, it is unfair for us to assume that everyone over there is just sitting around, waiting for things to happen.”

    I never said that everyone OVER THERE is just sitting around. My feeling was that it was YOUR OWN attitude. An attitude of ‘why should I care’.

    Leon wrote – “No, I don’t see anything fucked up about it. Or at least anymore fucked up than when the U.S. went through its industrial revolution, when there were huge gaps between the rich and poor, and when the country was struggling with the different needs of its population.”

    Hmmm, I didn’t realize the industrial revolution was also a revolution for the fashion industry and non white models in America. Please refer to King’s analog.

    “Every other country went through or going through these transitional periods experience similar growing pains. Why should China be the exception?”

    Christ, I really don’t know. Again, you see the things the way they are and accept them as they are. I like to see things the way they can be and should be. Just because history was repeated once, twice, three times, doesn’t mean it has to be repeated again. By your logic anything that occurs or exists is normal. Why bother doing anything about anything or having a critical opinion about anything? And for Christ’s sakes, we’re not talking about broad transitional growing pains in policy making to regulate financial markets, administer education, or regulate healthcare. We’re specifically talking about stupid fucking fashion and a country’s people own racial identity.

    Leon wrote – “This is like the discussions with Lou Jing, and the anger and disbelief that followed when the issue brought China’s ugly racism to light. I can understand the outrage, because we all agree that racism is bad. But, why would people expect anything different? Why should the Chinese not be allowed to make the mistakes that everyone makes? Where do these expectations come from?”

    It sounds like you are defending the indefensible. The Lou Jing discussion and what we have here are not the same. The European Colonialism has really imprisoned our minds hasn’t it.

    Leon wrote – “As long as this is done with respect to the population in China and their struggles and not with contemptuous, “Those dumbass Asians….”

    Agreed. But you know what. You’re doing a disfavor if you don’t take them to task. That’s more condescending and patronizing then calling their “WAYS” dumb. You’re not giving the Chinese people enough credit and are actually insulting their intelligence and humanity. You’re calling them savages when you and Anna say that their humanity and dignity can’t be tapped; that they can’t understand simple human dignity; that they can’t understand cultural shifts and their own importance to the future of their own country and to the world.

    Leon wrote – “To reiterate, China-and to an extent, Asia-suffer from the same problems that we do. There is no Asian Inferiority Complex anymore than than there is an Asian Racism Complex. They make dumb mistakes like everyone else because they’re only human.”

    Fuck, I get it now. This was your concern all along. This was what you were trying to defend all along. Get over it already. Asians/Chinese, whatever are no more inferior or racist than anyone else. Got it…but there is still an inferiority complex right? There are still issues right. So let’s address those instead of playing around with words and using the effects of colonialism as both the disease and the cure.

  53. @mT

    “”where does this ‘Western Asians have no business in Asia’ mentality come from? “”

    How do you think Europeans would feel if a group of white Americans went to Europe and started saying “”NO,NO ,NO, YOURE DOING IT ALL WRONG!! WE’LL SHOW YOU WHAT TO DO, OUR WAY IS BETTER!!”” Its a little arrogant dont you think?

    “”Why is there such a lost of connection to the motherland in so many western Asians?””

    Motherland? well I dont know about you, but I was born in the West and my motherland is here. The People’s Republic of China is NOT my motherland. I wasnt born there, didnt grow up there, my passport isnt PRC , so tell me, what connection to China do I have other than my (white created) racial background? As Frank Chin said, “We are born here, we’ll have kids here, and we’ll die here”. I agree with his sentiments. We are AA/Azn.

    “”You’re not giving the Chinese people enough credit and are actually insulting their intelligence and humanity. You’re calling them savages when you and Anna say that their humanity and dignity can’t be tapped; that they can’t understand simple human dignity””

    You know what a PRC Chinese is going to say to you mT? “Youre not Chinese, so you have no right to diuscuss China” And in this case, I agree.

    Think about what youre saying, mT. Youre saying, that because PRCs arent adopting western standards then they are not “tapping their simple humanity and dignity”. Leon and I are saying that PRCs have the right to determine their own society, and determine their own destiny, an NO ONE has the right to tell them otherwise. For overseas asians to do so only replicates the priviledge and power that whites arrogantly assume they have when they go to Asia and do the same thing. In fact, its this paternalistic and imperial way of thinking that Europeans used when they colonised East and South East Asia in the 18th and 19th Centuries.

    Sorry mT, I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with your arguments on this one.

  54. The People’s Republic has her own schema of the world. And its not based on the American one. Nor is it one based on the pseudo-racial theories of a group of European slave supporting colonialists from the 18th Century. Its not even based on the standards of the whites, or some kind of U.S identity politics.

    Its based on China, based on 5000 years of glorious history of a civilisation that sees the Han and those who stand with the Han as the centre of the world. There are over 56 ethnic Chinese minorities, Russians, Tajik, Uigher, Tibetan, Koreans, Manchu, Mongolians, Han etc, all different shades, different langauges, different cultures. All are Chinese.

    It is ridiculous to apply white created, western classifications upon non western, non white countries. Especially when those classifications were originally created to serve the interests of white supremacy and explain the inferiority of nonwhite peoples, which was used to justify slavery, colonialism, and imperialism by Europeans over POCs in the last century…..

    I’m not saying be apathetic, or just accept injustice, mT, I’m saying we have to be careful in what we are promoting , especially in the context of history.

  55. Alright mT, you’ve made your points. I respect your opinions, but will you please drop your condescending tone. I never said we shouldn’t have these discussions. Otherwise, why would I even be here? You want to criticize China for their actions, fine. Then that means I should be allowed to criticize your criticism.

    You claim that everything’s ‘interconnected, past, present and future’, but when I try to bring up other points you ignore them as irrelevant. When I try to look at the bigger picture concerning China, you say we’re talking specifically about the fashion industry. Apparently we should only talk about the things that YOU think are important.

    I never advocated apathy. I never said, “Why should I care.” Instead, it’s more like, “Why should I assume I know what’s best for the Chinese better than they do?” What’s more patronizing than assuming that they want or even need our help, considering the Asian Americans’ own track record. You want to find white worship, you need not look further than our own communities. Far from sitting around doing nothing, I think our best course of action is to take care of our own house, get our shit together, and lead by example.

    You want to have these discussions, fine. You want to criticize China for making stupid choices, fine. I never said we couldn’t or shouldn’t. You accuse me of being repetitive but you seem to ignore this point that I also repeated multiple times.

    And don’t try to assume anything about me when you don’t know shit about me. I’m from the mainland, I still have family there. These struggles and mistakes that China goes through cause me a great deal of heartache and frustration. But I also respect them, and that means instead of scolding them like children I treat them like adults and let them learn from their mistakes. I try to understand the reasons behind them. And far from being hopeless about their future, I have great faith in their ability to overcome these problems (they’ve survived far worse) and achieve a much more prosperous and enlightened society ON THEIR OWN.

    I believe this is important because, if and when China does become a counterbalance to the US hegemony, they will be on a far stronger foundation at having arrive at that point themselves, free of dependency, with a fresh perspective about race that is different from the Americans. Just because discussions about race and awareness began with us, it doesn’t mean it has to end with us.

  56. Shit, I’ve gotten so frustrated I double posted. Jaehwan, if you could remove one, that’ll be great. Otherwise, my sincere apologies to everyone.

  57. Anna, I am a bit confused by your argument, but I am attempting to understand.

    “You know what a PRC Chinese is going to say to you mT? “Youre not Chinese, so you have no right to diuscuss China” And in this case, I agree.”

    I don’t see how that statement is any different than this one:
    “Youre not an American, so you have no right to discuss America.”

    Wouldn’t that mean that people without a U.S. passport have no business talking about American issues such as:
    1) Slavery
    2) The wars, displacement, and genocide, of Native Americans
    3) The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882

    …because Americans have the right to determine their own society, and determine their own destiny, an NO ONE has the right to tell them otherwise.

    If I’m misunderstanding then please show me what I’m missing.

  58. @King

    “Youre not an American, so you have no right to discuss America.”

    Wouldn’t that mean that people without a U.S. passport have no business talking about American issues such as:
    1) Slavery
    2) The wars, displacement, and genocide, of Native Americans
    3) The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882

    …because Americans have the right to determine their own society, and determine their own destiny, an NO ONE has the right to tell them otherwise”

    Totally agree. People have the right to self detemination. I’m not sure if the U.S has signed or ratified the International Covenant on Civil and Political rights, but i agree with the right for people to determine their own destiny without the interference of foreign forces.

    I’m not Asian American, but I do discuss AA issues because I believe that Asian American experience shares many parallels with the experience of other western born Asians in the Anglosphere such as Asian Canadians and Asian Australians. As such, as oppressed minority groups, we can learn from each other. However, if individual Asian Americans said to me “You have no right to pass judgement on the Incident at South Philly! Youre not American or Asian American, so you have no experience in what its like here” Then its really not my place to say “So what I’m not Asian American, even though Ive never been to South Philly or the U.S, I still know more about it and am more qualified to judge on it than you!!”

    Thats just too arrogant, dont you think, King?

    However if they are happy to accept me in their conversation, I’m happy to contribute. However, on this blog theres no PRCs at all(except maybe Leon)commenting, so in reality we are are all foreigners talking about Chinese people, without actual Chinese people from PRC present…….Kind of reminds me of those annoying expat bars you find in Asia filled with pot bellied laowai expats talking bout “dem inferior choineses” who need expats and whites to save China and the Chinese people from themselves……..lol

  59. @Leon,

    Shit. Why so defensive? You’re right…I don’t know anything about you except from what you have typed. And you have actually typed a lot more in your last post than any of your other posts combined. So that really helped. I appreciate your views and opinions. I’m not trying to be condescending and I apologize if that’s how it came off. I think we all share the same concerns; it’s just how we choose to express those concerns. But then again why are you criticising my criticism? I am not advocating invading China and setting up missionaries…so what’s your gripe with criticizing China?

    Yes, we can talk about big picture, small picture, middle picture, whatever picture you want, but let’s stay consistent and not mix and match and bring up irrelevant points. Sorry I don’t ignore them. I considered all your points individually and in total and I think they are irrelevant for the reasons I’ve stated and based on the context of the discussion. I can say I understand where you are coming from a lot better from your last post alone.

    I understand that you’re a PRC and a US resident at the same time, so that’s interesting. You obviously would have a different perspective and emotional attachment to the pictureS. I appreciate that…I always have.

  60. mT- Shit, man, I don’t know why I lost my cool. Sorry. For some reason your comments have a way of making me put my back up. I’m glad I clarified my position a bit with my last post. I tend to have trouble getting my thoughts in order and putting them down properly in writing, so that adds to my frustration. It’s like I’m trying to communicate and a different language comes out. I value your opinions and I believe you make good points, as do everyone else. I believe all of us here have the best intentions for Asians in mind no matter which angle we’re coming from.

    I think I need to take a step back and slow down my participation and take some time digesting the other comments here.

    Before I forget, anna123- thank you for those links. It’ll take some time to go through it all, but I think the author is very intelligent, has an excellent grasp of things and has a wicked sense of humor. I actually just figured out the meaning of her URL this morning when I woke up since my Cantonese is crappy, and I bust a gut laughing.

  61. However, if individual Asian Americans said to me “You have no right to pass judgement on the Incident at South Philly! Youre not American or Asian American, so you have no experience in what its like here” Then its really not my place to say “So what I’m not Asian American, even though Ive never been to South Philly or the U.S, I still know more about it and am more qualified to judge on it than you!!”

    Thats just too arrogant, dont you think, King?

    No, I wouldn’t think that you were being arrogant because Verum est non a locus. “Truth is not dependent on location” And neither does location necessarily convey experience. So, for instance, as an Asian minority in a majority White country, your experiences may be more relevant to the South Philly incident than some fat White guy who’s been stuffing his face with Pat’s Philly Cheesesteaks all of his life. The relevance is not based on location but on a commonality of experience. It may, in fact, be more arrogant for a local member of the majority culture to suppose that he can speak knowledgeably on a particular minority issue, than it would be for another minority with similar experiences in another country, to speak on it.

    Does that make any sense?

  62. because clearly this post needs more comments…..

    I think before criticizing anyone or any place one should listen to the reasons those people give for their actions. Most things are not black and white or cut. I don’t agree with right wing fundamentalists on much but some of them have some solid points. I understand why they hate liberal hollywood, the rudeness and crudeness and violence in movies should be rejected, one need not be religious to understand this.

    I have certainly been in other countries and heard american cristizing the local ways with out understanding them.

    I also think that just because you are not from a place or are of a certain racial, ethnic, geographical group or gender, orientation etc, you can’t have or voice an opinion. This is plain wacky. You should be cautious, tactful, and respectful yes, but to say you are forbidden to lend your point of view can create more divides and misunderstanding. So I strongly disagree with Anna123.

    I also think that one should at times take into consideration the background of someone when they voice their opinion or philosophy but I think that to flatly dismiss an opinion, philosophy, etc, just because the person is a white guy, Indian woman, whatever is dumb. Just because

    Lastly we should try to avoid directly interfering in other nations business, but the world is complex, borders created by the powerful, having a totally hands off approach can mean you are leaving people to die…. that is hardly noble.

  63. oops hit submit to fast. just to clarify:
    I also think that just because you are not from a place or are of a certain racial, ethnic, geographical group or gender, orientation etc, you can’t have or voice an opinion.
    I meant “I also think that TO SAY just because”….(one can’t voice an opinion is wacky)

  64. @King,

    Guess I just have to respectfully disagree with your arguments.

    @Lingyai

    Never wrote you cant have an opinion, but just that you have to be wary of placing unwanted standards on a people that dont give a sh#t about you or your value system.

    @Leon,

    lol, no worries. Its a very intelligent and perceptive blog for sure.

  65. First I want to say that Asian hates blacks just like any white person. I stated this before and was bashed by Jaewan. So when you guys fling racism at whites, you should look in the mirror at your OWN race.
    Of course Asian countries (China) wants to hire white models. Why not? Since people like Nicole Kidman and Brad and Angie are the standards in this country. I don’t think that will change anytime soon. Even I was approach by beautiful Asian girls who asked me if I were model.
    I will now check out China if the women likes white guys. I found out from “Fighting 44s” that Japanse women likes us, so I told some of my friends and we are going on an Asian countries tour in the summer. Thank you for the information! That is what I needed to know.

  66. “First I want to say that Asian hates blacks just like any white person. I stated this before and was bashed by Jaewan.”

    Let me quote you:

    http://www.bigwowo.com/2009/06/armchair-armwrestling-and-diverse-diversifying/#comment-4659

    “Most Blacks would rather make babies and try to become the next Lebron James than to study. Why do you think their are more Black Rappers than Whites?
    That’s why I don’t feel sorry for blacks. Slavery was bad and evil but you can’t sit around and bitch about it when all you care about is talking in Ebonics.
    Have the people in this world were sold into to slavery in one time or the other.
    Read your world history book. ”

    That’s probably right up there with the worst that racists said about Lou Jing.

    “I will now check out China if the women likes white guys. I found out from “Fighting 44s” that Japanse women likes us, so I told some of my friends and we are going on an Asian countries tour in the summer. Thank you for the information!”

    You’re welcome. Have fun.

  67. You left out the quotes where I praised Connie Rice and Colin Powell and maybe some others. Or where I said that some blacks have made it in this society.

    But Asian that hates them, think all blacks are inferior to them. I never once stated that. So I hope you Asians wear the title racist as well as any Archie Bunker out there.
    And the next time you quote me, me sure you don’t take it out of context like you just did.

  68. Wow, you said a nice word or two about “Connie” Rice and Colin Powell. Well that totally erases all the racist comments you made in the rest of your post. [/sarcasm]

    In that vein, let me say that Siegfried has spouted nonsense, made derogatory comments about other races, and has tried and failed to create interracial strife on this blog. But he shows up often. Don’t quote me out of context–I did, after all, say that his attendance is good.

    As for the serious topic: I tend to think that people can push their values onto others, as long as they make a good faith effort to understand as much as possible. We do it with Darfur. We non-Philly people do it with that high school in South Philly. These issues are local, but we can end suffering if we pressure them. As for models in China, one could argue that it’s not a local issue when technology comes into play. Pro-Whiteness in their media could affect anyone with access to that media. In this day and age, that’s everyone with an internet connection. People are a lot closer these days than they used to be, all because of technology.

  69. So Siegfried–the racial fetishist from Germany–is lecturing about racism, even as he gloats about Aryan beauty icons like “Brad and Angie” and salivates over his next sex tour to Asia.

    This is like Joseph Mengele warning about the evils of anti-Semitism.

    The hypocrisy of this creepy crawly is topped only by his self-delusions and bad faith.

    That’s the audacity of White arrogance.

    And it’s you that best in the mirror real hard, boy.

    Ever heard of slavery, Western colonialism, Native Indian genocide, and a little thing called the Holocaust?

    Siegfried projects his own racism onto Asians in order deflect attention from the greatest racists of them all: his beloved White master race.

  70. jaehwan, here are some of my random thoughts.

    1) there is definitely an asian inferiority complex due the failure of the east to industrialize early, and so had to play catch up to the west. Whites ruled and continued to rule the world today, so of course they are looked up to as the standard of civilization and culture (rightly or wrongly).
    2) the inferiority complex is also a useful tool for the chinese government. it allows them to focus the energies of the chinese people to surmount the “superiority” of the west. I expect that even when china is technically no longer inferior, the chinese gov’t will still be subtly feeding the inferiority complex to get their people to work harder.
    3) in the west, asians are generally despised and protrayed as inferior, so having grown up in such a culture, asian americans generally have the inferiority complex instilled in them.
    4) I agree that the asians using white models is ridiculous, but you have to consider that china is still early in development, and will mature more. Chinese are simplistic in their world view today, and white is associated with wealth – AND THUS- beauty. Hopefully as china gets more wealthy, they will get more confident and self aware of their own beauty.
    5) There are beautiful girls of all races. It’s really a silly to compare which is more beautiful. I could tell you which is the most beautiful white girl, or asian girl I have met. But I don’t really know how to express whether the top white girl is more or less beautiful than the top asian or black girl. Comparing like this sort of misses the point.
    6) In almost all cultures, lighter skin tones are considered more beautiful.

    In china, dark skin meant you were sunburnt from working in the fields. If there is dislike of dark skinned people in china, it is mostly due to this, and not necessarily that the person is African. In china, there are racist stereotypes of black people, but also consider that chinese really don’t have much, if any, experience dealing with africans. Most of these bad stereotypes were imported into china by western culture.

    It is only in recent american culture that dark became beautiful, when during the early 1900’s, it was a sign of wealth if you could jet away to florida or cuba and GET A TAN (ie intentionally sunburnt). But beauty is the most ephemeral of things. Consider that fat women were the archetype of beauty just 100 years ago. The rise of china may very well change the worlds concept of beauty.
    7) white and yellow are really bad descriptions of people. “White” people are really more pink. Many asians are lighter skinned than many “whites”.
    8) I for one believe that the rise of china is a net positive rule breaking, earth shattering event for asians and asian americans. As china rises in wealth and prestige, the image of asians will change and improve. Here you have a massive number of asians getting weathier, with enough critical mass to change inaccurate and baised views of asians. I know that korea, taiwan and japan are developed and haven’t really change asian image much, but consider that these are relatively small countries, and were developed with subsidies, guidance and imported culture from the US. China, with it’s 1.6 billion people, pulling themselves up and developing their own media and entertainment may finally have enough mass to change world opinion of asians. China might not care for us asian americans, but I believe they will do more for us than anyone else. We asian americans, with our small numbers, just don’t matter enough for anyone to take notice of us and affect change. If china rises, and the asian image rises with it, we will be unwitting beneficiaries.
    7) I think Du Juan in the picture above is not pretty. That’s just me. But then again, I don’t think most runway models are pretty. It’s telling that the western fashion industry like the perverse “drugged” anorexic look.

    You also asked me about my background. From what I can gather about you via your blog, I’m probably a lot like you. If I’m ever in oregon, I’ll look you up.

  71. So it’s tick for tack than. What about Japan who became an allied to the Third Reich? Remember Pearl Harbor?
    Did you know that the Japanese put American soldiers in concentration camp and got away with it? They starved and beat them. They hung members of the Third Reich but the Japanese who did those things are somewhere living a full life.
    Where’s the justice in that? The Japanese don’t even mention that little fact in their history book.

    Also, I find China to be the biggest hypocrite of all. They go to Africa and use their resources and don’t like African people. I wished the Africans knew how they felt.

    Finally, I only criticize some blacks because I felt they lack motivation to improve their lives. That’s all I said. I did not say that I hate blacks.
    Lastly, when Asian women become more of a beauty standard, you can expect more white men to be attractive to them like we are now. I find Asian women more beautiful than any white women alive even Angie and Nicole Kidmen or whoever you want to put out there. I rather look at an Asian woman model any day, truly.

  72. “Also, I find China to be the biggest hypocrite of all. They go to Africa and use their resources and don’t like African people. I wished the Africans knew how they felt.”

    Inaccurate. The west is still the largest exploiter of africa’s natural resources by far. Why are there somali pirates? Because nordic european fishing companies have locked up the fishing rights off the african coast, collapsing the seafood ecosystem and thus the livelihood of the fishermen, who became pirates.

    The west is the biggest hypocrit of all. They are just much more subtle and better at pr and covering up their exploitation, something china has yet to learn well. The west raped and pillaged africa and continue to do so. At least the chinese build roads and badly needed infrastructure. What did the west ever do for africa besides rape and pillage?

  73. Haha…Siegfried, be sure to make use of those Tic Tacs while you’re talking up those women that you always tell us about. As for me, my nose is particularly sensitive, and I can smell the bs even when you try to mask it.

    King and Larry,

    Happy New Year! And thanks for reminding me that humor is the reason we keep this rice chaser wannabe Siegfried around!

    afd,

    Thanks for your comments, and thanks for coming to our humble site! There are going to be some changes for me and my activism in the upcoming year; from your comment, you might be interested. Of course, activism in general, for me, is going to take a back seat to novel writing this year…

    I happen to be a dark-skinned Southern Chinese, and yes, there is definitely some prejudice against darkness, even within our culture. The prejudice against me, of course, is negligible compared to what others might go through. I’m waiting to see what happens with China. Perhaps the self-confidence that comes from wealth will trickle down into other areas, such as media and self-image.

    I the meantime, we’ll continue raising these issues among Asian Americans here.

    See you all next year! Be safe!

  74. F-that. Asian women are incredibly beautiful and on average, the best looking women in the world pound-for-pound.

    White women may have more 3D faces, but Asian women can easily mimic this with a little makeup or plastic surgery. In fact, they don’t even need plastic surgery. Asian women have sleek eyes and cute petite noses. And all this crap about how Asian women are flat. Ne-gro please. I’ve seen so many curves on Asian women they put McDonald’s arches to shame.

    I think the whole notion of being “exotic” and different depends on where you are. Whereas White Americas love Asian women because they find them beautiful and exotic looking, the Chinese probably feel the same way about European blondes.

    And since Europe is the epicenter of fashion, I think Asians find more authenticity with using models from the same region. What puzzles me is how popular Asian women are in America but nowhere to be found on the runway of Victoria Secret, Covergirl, etc. (Except one) Not even on the cover of Cosmo, Glamour or Mademoiselle?

    C’mon Asia, stop bending over backwards for White people and establish your own beauty standards.

  75. MaSir Jones,

    Thanks for your comments!

    I’m hoping that our Miss Asian Oregon Pageant will help promote more visibility among Asian women. I agree with you that it’s crazy that so many Asian women have the cachet but no vehicle to promote it. MAO all the way!!!

  76. Pingback: Asian Eyelid Surgery | bigWOWO

  77. Reading your post, I remembered website of American Man living in South Korea. He wrote about an article about South Korean inferiority complex. One day he and a group of Korean friends were on the way to a restaurant and this one big group of WHITE PEOPLE was exiting the restaurant while they were going in. All of sudden, his Korean friends asked him to start speak English to them LOUDLY so they can speak English Loudly as well. He asked him why is this? They told him that if the group of WHite people hear the American man speaking English to Koreans and Koreans respond to him in English, then that will IMPRESS the white people and make them think Korea is an advanced Country.
    WHen I read this I was STUNNED. It’s just un-fucking believable. Asians in General and especially south Koreans, have this HUGE inferiority complex. Those Koreans basically said, “Our self-worth and self-image depend upon how WHITE people think about us.” How did we come to this stage? Is it our looks? I mean other third world countries have their own inferiority complexes as well, but not this serious. I think it has to do with brainwashing of MEdia. For almost a Century white media have been portraying Asian beauty as ugly while making white beauty as standard beauty. THey succeeded.

  78. What’s funnier is when Asians put on an accent when speaking to white people, when they normally don’t have one. XD

  79. I don’t think most Westerners find Asians attractive, particularly the women. I do think many Asians want to look like Westerners.

    In another post, I mentioned how the best looking Asian dudes in the eyes of society look remotely White . One poster by the name of Linda thinks Daniel Henney is hot. He would not be considered hot, if he was the typical pure bred Korean guy. The fact that his dad is Caucasian, and thus he bearing some Caucasian features makes him a lot better looking, since we are conditioned to view Westerners as more attractive.

  80. Unbelievable,

    Whether you are Korean or not, it does not make your comment more credible. And having to state that actually makes me doubt whether you really are.

    “Asians in General and especially south Koreans, have this HUGE inferiority complex.”

    I’d like to see some evidence that the majority is that way. I’m sure you can find examples of that in a few people, but you really don’t know what you’re talking about if you believe that. I don’t think you are who you say you are. For some reason, some people feel the need to put down other ethnicities and that is a main reason why you feel like you have to put down the “inferiority complex” of Koreans. It really is about your own complex towards Koreans.

  81. ” think it has to do with brainwashing of MEdia. For almost a Century white media have been portraying Asian beauty as ugly while making white beauty as standard beauty. THey succeeded….”

    China is still has some dignity left, but I think that will evaporate if they allow a full fledge westernization to take hold like it has been in Japan. Most Asian countries were asslickers of some Western nation at some point in time, with the exception of China.

  82. I think people forget that all countries and races have a healthy portion of idiots. For anyone to make the blanket statement all Asians detest Blacks is absurd, if only for the reason that many Asians have never actually met a Black person. Having worked for a Japanese company I can attest to this from personal experience. Many foreign countries only know about Blacks from Hollywood films and television (which just goes to show what a warped impression Hollywood gives of pretty much all non-white races). I’ve found that if you present yourself as respectful, and intelligent, you can pretty much eliminate those stereotypes in seconds flat, and I for one that great pride in doing so.

    Can’t believe someone actually took a swipe at the Karate Kid remake. Some people find a way to try and slam Black people not matter what the actual discussion might be about. Careful your bigotry is showing.

  83. Pingback: What’s Your Excuse? | bigWOWO

  84. Pingback: How Asia sees the world — and itself. | The Myth of America

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