The Putticks
I’ve seen a number of interesting articles on suicide recently, and I was interested in whether the readers here had any opinions. First, there was this sad story that I saw on BicoastalBitchin–a cute little boy dies of an infection, and his distraught parents kill themselves by jumping off a 500 foot cliff (see pic above). Then, there was the story of the eminent orchestra conductor Sir Edward Downes, who killed himself in order to die with his terminally ill wife. Then yesterday, there was the story of a man in Britain who was jailed for giving his terminally ill father a gun to kill himself. Along the way, there was also the story of Ron Takaki, pre-eminent Asian American historian, who killed himself ostensibly over an illness.
I think people should have a right to die with dignity. However, it’s usually more complicated than that. After Kurt Cobain’s suicide, for example, Eddie Van Halen called Cobain an “asshole,” saying that Cobain should have known that his suicide would encourage his fans to do the same (sorry, I don’t have a link for this). My college roommate, with whom I discussed the Cobain suicide, disagreed, saying that Van Halen had no right to judge Cobain since he had no idea what Cobain was going through.
In the first two cases mentioned above, the people who committed suicide had no terminal conditions. The parents of the boy killed themselves out of grief, and the conductor killed himself in order to leave with his wife. In the latter two, the suicide victims had been ill.
It’s a sad topic. Just the idea of people ending their lives is sad. My question is this: do people have a right to end their lives, especially if there may be consequences (as in the copycat suicides that followed Kurt Cobain)? It’s rare that a suicide has zero collateral damage, which means that most suicides have consequences that extend beyond the victims. (We cheer and give each other high-fives over some suicides, but these cases are rare.)
What do you think?
No related posts.
But here is an...
I agree with everything you said. About #1…I think...
Although no one can imagine what another person is going through, that person should realize that what they do has consequences on other people. Human dignity goes beyond onself. It is a balance between doing what is right for your self and what is right for others. Is ending one’s life a balanced or unbalanced action?
Ed,
Thanks.
I think one can really make the argument, especially in this day and age, that we’re all connected. People’s actions always have an effect on other people. It’s funny because Americans used to make fun of Asian religions, but I think almost everyone today agrees that karma exists.
Laws usually take into consideration how much it will cost to keep the person alive if (s)he fails to die and ends up a vegetable for eternity. If the cost is zero, meaning taxpayers/contributors are not required to pay hospital bills under any circumstances, then the laws against suicide will probably be more lax, if they exist at all.
Thanks, Eric.
You know–and this is for Ed too–I’ve been thinking lots about this idea of shared obligations. Like as a parent, I have an obligation to my kids. As an employee, I have an obligation to my company. As an American, I have an obligation to my country. I don’t know if we can break everything down into money, but I agree that we could describe a failure in obligation as “costs.”
I’m going to think about this more.
I think that the right to die has shades of grey. Is there a thin line between euthanasia and suicide? Are exceptions to be made for those who are mentally ill versus those who aren’t? Like Ed had posted, we don’t know what goes thru some people’s mind, what pain they’re feeling. But the ripple effects of such an act causes a lot of pain for the friends and family, those who are left behind to deal with a tragic event.
I have to say, I’ve never understood some people’s seemingly fascination with suicide: Sylvia Plath’s “Belljar” and all that stuff never interested me. I remember in high school some kids seem drawn to her only because she offed herself, as if they were into the shock value of such an act. Or how some Japanese were fascianted with Yukio Mishima committing ritual hari-kiri over some bizarre political stance. ok, whatever.
It’s hard to say what conditions, what level of pain, meet the requirements of the right to die. I suspect that I am forgiving of someone with a terminal illness, someone on their deathbed who is just out of it. But someone who is diagnosed as terminal, still ambulatory, or conscious and capable of making decisions, I dunno.
If you believe in something greater than yourself, some great cosmic design, then life (no matter how ugly or painful it gets) is a gift. Even if we have no idea what this gift is or what we’re supposed to do. To end one’s life prematurely in the absence of mental or advanced terminal illness, is kind of selfish and devestating for those left behind.
There is that element of those who commit (or attempt to commit) suicide are usually people who don’t think they’re loved or wanted or would be grieved. For most part, they do really think the world would be better off without them. So that would be more of emotional/psychological issue than a moral one. I know that there used to be a lot of teen suicides in Korea due to the pressures parents would put on their children over school grades and university entrance exam scores.
I do believe in one’s right to die when he/she is ready to die. As a parent, however, my stance has changed a bit – I brought a daughter into the world and I am, in a way, hers. I am responsible for her well-being, financially, emotionally, morally, etc., etc.. Until she can stand on her two feet… and even then I think I need to consider her feelings about my absence. Oh, and your spouse/partner/significant other…. yeah, they also add to your “obligation” to live.
So, if someone who lives alone, with no friends, no family, was miserable, had no interests that kept him/her happy… if that person decided that he/she would end his/her life today, it should be his/her say, his/her right. Although, I’d hope that people would reach out to this person before it came to that. “Shared obligation” is not just about how the suicidal affects others – how the others can affect the suicidal.
Mojo,
I think Camus once wrote a book that started with something like, “The only true philosophical question is whether or not to kill yourself.” Maybe that’s why people are fascinated by it–why should I wake up and get out of bed today?
MN,
The kids really do it, don’t they? I’ve known more than one person–myself included–who woke up after having kids. It’s like, “Wait a second, someone needs me!”
Good point about the shared obligation. I might have more to say about that later…
jaehwan, that’s interesting that you bring up the existentialists. I remember it was a pretty fascinating topic introduced to us in high school humanities class. It was a new way of seeing the world and some kids really got into it (didn’t someone say that a little education is dangerous?). Same with the Ayn Rand crap about objectivism. Hey, I’m no up-with-people kind of guy myself, but i thought these guys were a bunch of killjoys! I mean, would you rather hang out with Camus and Satre or have a good time doing something else, sharing laughter with others?
mama nabi,
yes, I suppose there is a group of people in any society who feel they don’t fit in, that their lives don’t matter, they are unloved and that no one cares. To me, that is tragic that they see suicide as their only option. You’re right: it is an emotional/psychological problem. I do think that we have to remember that we have free will and it is possible to change one’s circumstances in life through the application of one’s will. But I guess these folks have run out of hope and have given up fighting.
Byron,
Rather than debating about what laws there should be, I’d rather debate why laws come about. The “right to die” isn’t very compatible with taxpayer-funded health care. The “right to eat whatever you want” is even less incompatible (hence taxes on cigarettes and now possibly soda). The “right to injure yourself” is completely incompatible (seat belt and helmet laws). Understanding the trade-offs with social welfare systems allows us to understand the resulting loss of various freedoms.
I think in a democracy, most laws find a middle ground. If I don’t wear a seatbelt and I get injured really badly, everyone else pays for it through disability, etc. It’s kind of the same deal where I have a right to do what I want, as long as I’m not imposing a cost on other people.
Eric,
Speaking of cost and laws, you might find this interesting:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/us/10gambling.html?_r=1&th&emc=th
Laws emerge to support the most efficient/cheapest method of conducting any commerce. But these days laws are mostly created centrally and are aimed at pleasing interests be they the bible belt or lobbyists. Now that the government’s losing tax revenue, they find it in their interest to legalize things like gambling, and probably pot soon.
Democracy finds middle-ground, but often “middle-ground” means finding the average between “no freedom” and “freedom”, of speech for example. Then there’s not really freedom of speech, simply because the majority doesn’t like a certain viewpoint. That majority might be on the other side of the country too. Thanks to democracy, the majority can restrict consenting adults from making private contracts that don’t affect anyone else.
i don’t view the act of suicide in legal terms as a “right” but rather as an act of spiritual crisis. These parents killed themselves because of their grief. one chose to kill himself because he couldn’t bear the thought of living without his terminally ill wife.
Many people have lost loved ones and have lived with the burden of those losses. There are many people who do not kill themselves. I’ve lost many relatives to include those in my immediate familly, family friends and a few friends over the years; I figure I’ve been to about 23 funerals in my time. You don’t ever get over missing someone, but time is somewhat of a healer. And with time, you eventually move on with task of living your life. I don’t believe that life is meaningless but has a purpose. Sometimes it isn’t so readily apparent and maybe it never will be answered what you’re here for, what it is you’re suppose to do.
Ending your life prematurely means you end the possibilities of what you could have accomplished with your natural time. is it possible that losing a loved one is a catalyst for some people to do something with their life? and had they not had that loss, they would not have been spurred on to take a certain action? That they find a purpose and become a force for something good in this world?
23 funerals? Jeez, man, I’m so sorry to hear that. Were any of those suicides? If so, is it harder to take?
Back in the day when I had hard times, I would always remind myself that things could get a lot better if I just made it through one more period. And they did. I think many people give up (in sports, competition, life) right before things are about to turn around. It’s sad.
“Ending your life prematurely means you end the possibilities of what you could have accomplished with your natural time.”
Very well said.
Speaking of the existentialists, did you ever read Huis Clos (No Exit) by Jean-Paul Sartre? I read it in French in high school. (God bless Sartre for using easy words.) I think he put one of his characters in Hell for killing herself. I should reread it.
Eric,
I agree with you. That’s one of the problems of rule by majority. Minority voices–whether they be racial minorities, religious minorities, or philosophical minorities–often get drowned out.
jaehwan, only one of them was a probable suicide, about two years ago; it was my cousin who had been dealing with bi-polar issues and a bout with recurring breast cancer. I don’t think her family wants to think that maybe she ended her life and so they gloss over it. There never was a clear answer as to what happen to her but I can piece things together. understand that part of her decision was from the depressive bi-polar condition, her mental illness. It was the illness taking control, not my cousin. When I heard the news, it shocked me and bothered me for a few months, like it would anyone. She left behind a husband and a baby they adopted from China not too long ago. It’s very sad.
Also, to clarify my point about using the loss of a loved to spur one to action, I think of John Walsh and all the work he’s done on behalf of missing and exploited children. That’s kind of what I meant by ending the possibilites of what one can do in life with one’s natural time on earth. I admit, I don’t have any clue as to what Walsh’s life’s purpose, if any, is. But without him, would we have had the kind of awareness we do now about child predators? But I feel on some level that we do have a reason for living, even if I don’t have empirical evidence. The rationalists and nihilists can slag me all they want, but it’s my own interpretation of the world.
Don’t recall reading “No Exit”. I remember reading “The Stranger”, “Waiting for Godot” and something else. I got what they were saying, appreciated the intellectual concepts for what it was, but never agreed with that view of life.
You should read “No Exit.” Even though it’s dark, I think the message is far more positive than Stranger or Godot. If you buy No Exit, you’ll probably get it in a book that includes another play called “Dirty Hands.” I think you’ll really like that one. It’s all about taking control of the situation regardless of what hand you’re dealt (although the ending…well…you’ll see…).
Sorry to hear about your cousin. That must’ve been rough.
I think John Walsh wants to give back. I think he’s doing the right thing. You’re absolutely right about his loss spurring him to action. I’m glad he’s doing it.
Thanks jaehwan; it was rough because afterall, we’re talking about the loss of family and seeing your relatives in the painful grip of grief.
as for the book reccomendation, maybe I’ll get around to it. For now, I’m interested in finding what truths we can know about ourselves and our nature. More metaphysical stuff. There are these books on quantum physics whose thoughts and suggestions about possibilities are sort of on a parallel track with what some philosophers and religous sages have touched upon. I find it fascinating and it provides us with a notion that life isn’t meaningless or random.