Just saw this at the Anti-Social Ladder. It’s a great post, and she also links this great article by Dan Savage.
I’d been meaning to blog about this story for a while. It’s the story of George Sodini, a man who was getting very little sex, who responded by taking it out on the entire female gender by going to a fitness gym and murdering three women with a gun. Sodini was a disturbing psychopath; you can see his blog at the ABC News site. According to his blog, he hadn’t had sex since 1990. George Sodini was also a Pick-Up Artist in training, but he failed in his efforts and took his frustration out on random women.
In the Anti-Social Ladder post, ASL takes society to task for the rampant hatred of women that takes place in society. She also talks about the PUA movement (linked to an older post here), and how PUA fails to help a bad situation. She writes:
[PUA instructors] offer blanket lessons in entitlement, manipulation (of the customers and of these unsuspecting female conquests), and the complete suspension of disbelief that there are numerous factors (most of out one’s control) on why someone isn’t getting laid whenever they want. Those lessons probably turn most guys into temporary-to-permanent douchebags. But if those lessons fall onto the ears of an unhinged man…well, that’s when there may be a body count.
A while back, I posted my own final thoughts on PUA here. It was intended to be my final word on the subject, but since it’s rearing its ugly head again through these murders, I thought I’d revisit it. In my last PUA thoughts, I talked about how PUA instruction encouraged bad behavior and how dishonesty was rampant in the PUA culture. As you can see from this latest murder, these teachings can kill. I agree with ASL 100%. Asian men definitely face a social barrier. Yet we need to fight this by becoming better people, not by becoming better manipulators. We need to work towards our full human potential, not work towards better pickup lines.
I guess I have no new thoughts on the subject. That old post really was my final post.
By the way, what do people think about Dan Savage’s advice about sex workers? See his words here:
A woman I knew at college—an antiviolence activist, righteous and right-on—used to say, “Testosterone is gasoline, porn the match.” I disagree. Testosterone is gasoline—which isn’t necessarily a bad thing (gas makes things go)—but sexual frustration is the match.
I’m not suggesting that this tragedy could’ve been averted if only some selfless woman had “taken one for the team” and married Sodini, an asshole and a sociopath. The women who rejected him obviously saw him for what he was and were right to run in the other direction. But if someone had told Sodini, who hadn’t had sex since 1990, to see sex workers—something I advised the guys in my column two weeks ago to consider (among other things)—it might have taken the edge off his anger and kept it from curdling into homicidal rage. Maybe if we, as a society, valued sex workers and sex work, if we legalized and regulated it, and if we viewed “paying for it” as a legitimate option for guys who would otherwise go without for decades, perhaps this tragedy could have been averted.
I’m leaning towards the idea that this may actually be a good idea. Some guys will just never get it. If you’ve met PUAs, you know that some of them don’t have the ability to empathize, love, and care–in other words, they are totally unsuitable for male-female relationships. This isn’t true of all of them, of course, but a sizable number display these sociopathic tendencies. If we legalized sex work, perhaps this could be a means of calming the fires and preventing the house from burning down.
I know there are other gender issues that come with the legalization of sex work, and I do see how having a brothel near a law office could negatively impact women working at that law office by furthering gender based stereotypes. I’m just thinking that it could be the lesser of two evils.
What do you think?
Related posts:
I also wanted more rice than what could fit inside the wrap....
I don’t think PUA are to blame for this tragedy. This guy had serious problems with social skills and PUA’s purpose is to teach him social skills to be normal with women. He obviously didn’t learn how to be normal with women.
It’s similar to a guy with midlife crisis who sees a psychiatrist. After a few sessions and no improvement the guy commits suicide. Is the psychiatrist responsible for the man’s death? Does practicing psychiatry cause suicide in patients?
On your point about sex workers, i totally agree. Massage therapists, physical therapists, psychiatrists provide a service for our physical, emotional, and mental health. We pay for these services.
Sex improves our physical, emotional, and mental health. Why can’t we pay for these services too? I think it’s cuz of the ultra conservative religious nuts who want it banned.
Since the beginning of time, men have long associated confidence with their ability to appear attractive to women. Failure to do so and to ignore mankind’s long history of sexual politics will only result in wrong solutions.
This is why Asian America records an epic failure on the topic of interracial dating.
what happened to prostitutes?? no play since 1990? convicts get visits too.
I still think men and women need finishing school.
As far as sex workers are concerned, I’m half and half. I don’t think sex workers are prostitutes. I think some people need an honest dialog about sex.
Get your facts straight, man:
Quoted from his text on this source: http://www.nypost.com/seven/08052009/news/nationalnews/full_text_of_gym_killers_blog_183111.htm?page=4
“Tetelestai Church in Pittsburgh, PA – “Be Ye Holy, even as I have been Ye holy! Thus saith the lord thy God!”, as pastor Rick Knapp would proclaim. Holy shit, religion is a waste. But this guy teaches (and convinced me) you can commit mass murder then still go to heaven. Ask him. (Phone number removed by Editors)If no answer there, he should still live at (Address removed by Editors). In any case, guilt and fear kept me there 13 long years until Nov 2006. I think his crap did the most damage. Their web site: http://www.tetelestai.org.”
What allowed him to carry through his crime his interpretation of this Christian church’s religion. I’ll let someone else sift through that church’s teaching to see if it was truly teaching what Sodini claimed, or if it was another one of his distortions.
This whole “PUA teachings can kill” nonsense belongs in the same fearmongering basket where the “Obama wants to kill granny” should be.
If we’re going to push George Sodini as the face of the dating advice industry for men, we should probably give feminism some publicity by dusting off Valerie Solanas. I am also all for giving religion a boost, so let’s come up with a list of notorious serial killers.
Epic failures? Prostitutes? Finishing schools? I dunno. Perhaps. There are social dynamics that work against us, no doubt. We talk endlessly about it because it does affect us in some manner. This guy’s problem is that he lacked such social awareness and SELF awareness. He wasn’t truthful with himself and decided to blame others for his failures. Ok, he tried to improve himself, but the PUA thing wasn’t the right way to go, IMO. he wanted to change but he didn’t know how, or wasn’t honest with himself about his flaws.
As for the disconnect between some Asian men and women, I don’t think you can change anyone’s behahvior; you have to change your response to that person. What that response entails is entirely up to you. It’s still good to have dialog, even though it may seem that nobody’s listening to each other. Whatever message or viewpoints you have need to be thrown out there in hopes that it begins a shift in people’s consciousness. To change someone, the person, him or herself, has to induce a shift in his/her own consciousness.
As for some sex workers/prostitutes, the biggest problem is that there is criminal organizations associated with too much of that industry. It’s an industry that is steeped in exploitation and enslavement of women.
Thanks, all.
I wasn’t saying that Sodini should be the face of PUA; I was just saying that the teachings could lead to disasterous results. As the Anti-Social Ladder says, they teach a form of entitlement that treats women as objects, which can lead to bad behavior. We’ve already talked about PUA and rape, and this is yet another possible manifestation of a broken philosophy. I know he doesn’t blame his PUA teachers, but they never do. In these systems, the master teacher is almost treated as a god.
It would be the same deal if Cobra Kai were the dominant school of karate in this country. You’d have Johnny beating up kids all over the country, and in that case, I’d recommend stopping it.
I think this is why I’m having so many thoughts these days on the question of values. Without values, is there really anything to guide us?
I agree with you, Mojo. What if the government were to take it over? I liked what AG said–we could use an honest dialogue about this issue.
jaehwan, I dunno how much better if the sex industry was government run. I’m not talking just about here in North America, I mean over in eastern Europe and in Asia. The countries with weak governments are rife with corruption and I think a government run industry would still have the organized crime elements involved. My belief is that there would still be an underground market where women would still be subjected to being trafficked, enslaved, and exploited.
If you think women in the sex industry over in Asia are there voluntarily to make a living, you underestimate just how much involvement organized crime has a role in forcing women into this. With lots of cooperation from the police, in some cases (I’m thinking of Thailand, Cambodia, and Laos). A lot of women are NOT there voluntarily and they are not free to come and go as they please.
It’s really horrible.
I had a conversation with a very interesting man I met through Thymos and through our conversation I was reminded of how serious people take certain relationships early on.
My mistakes in past relationships and I see many people do this, is take someone seriously soon and then try to make the relationship work. Both men and women do this. Sometimes it is because of religious or family teachings, other times it is the fear of being alone or not finding someone who is 100% your perfect match. Most of the time, it is a combination of more than one factor.
I see many people, I myself have made this mistake, where one finds another who is 30-60% compatible because most people are < 25% compatible, so one thinks the 55% is way better than the 0-20%’s one has encountered and one try to make the rest work. It is a huge mistake.
I’ve said this before and in other comments, people should date a variety of people and one increases ones chances of finding a suitable match.
To use another analogy, I posted a position for an assistant in three sources, reviewed hundreds of resumes and interviewed dozens of people. In reviewing resumes, things like improper spelling, canned cover letters and use of the words “excited”, “interested” and “I’ve always want to be a dental assistant” meant automatic rejection. (I’m not a dentist.) In an interview, any inkling of lying or guessing at answers to questions meant no call back. One of the things I need in an assistant is the ability to tell me the truth. I need someone who will tell me the cold hard facts such as, “the letter is still on my desk,” or “I don’t know when it is due, but I’ll help you figure it out,” not what he or she thinks I want to hear.
The position of my assistant was vacant for over four months with the exception of one week, because it was not worth it for me to bring someone in to fill the position, even temporarily. Thankfully, I found someone suitable and she is probably at this time the No. 2 best assistant I ever trained and it has only been a little over three months.
Dates should be like job interviews, at least the initial ones. If you are looking for a casual short term relationship, look for someone who foots the bill. If you have special needs (such as I want to have kids before I am 40), look for the person who can fulfill those needs and write off any serious interest in anyone who doesn’t fit.
I agree with asianguy, this Sodini fellow probably emitted desperation along with a huge lack of social graces. He went through the trouble of taking note of what women would like and then emulating it with poor execution (the YouTube video of his house and all he has to offer). Desperation is one of those red flags; like a fake degree from a poorly fake University on what looks to be otherwise a decent resume garners an automatic rejection. Teaching someone like Sodini PUA skills would be like printing the bad resume on sparkly paper. You’ll still spot the PhD in Unicorn Behavioral Sciences from the “Shangri La University” and the result from anyone who reads what is on the sparkly paper is still an automatic rejection.
Sex work I think should be discussed separately. I’ve heard little about it, but it seems more like therapy than purient sexual gratification.
Disaster can result from all kinds of useful ideologies or teachings when they are misinterpreted by psychotic people. There is a ton bullshit being taught in the PUA scene, but anyone who believes it encourages rape and hate crimes against women is talking out of ignorance. Someone taking their time to do their homework, would already know that Sodini is exactly the kind of guy who gets labeled “AFC” and “Chode”.
You’re not gonna get more violence on women from having men being taught how to attract them. What you’re likely to get is more women getting played, and more assclowns pestering random girls with “who lies more, David Bowie or Michael Jackson?” lines.
American Girl,
I agree with you–people should all be dating more.
I think most people tend to get serious very fast when they first start dating. There’s probably an evolutionary reason why that is. When we were hanging out in tribes, we probably didn’t meet all that many people of the opposite sex, and marriage was probably arranged. This could explain why most people are shy. This is probably why most people lack good social skills.
Maybe the evolutionary argument is why athletes get so much attention–it’s physical and public. Or why rich people who spend lavishly.
Hmm…this is something to think about. PUAs probably spend lots of time thinking about this already.
Even a broken clock is correct two times a day, no?
Many aspects of PUA are troublesome but there are some aspects that can be used for innocent means. I mean, let’s face it, men have always tied their sense of masculinity based on their attractiveness.
I also believe that many Asian men out there are doing it solely for social reasons. Either they feel the need to stick it to the man or get back at Asian women. It’s wrong but I understand. If Asian women weren’t doing it, many Asian men wouldn’t have this sense of lost masculinity.
Coming from a business perspective, there will be no successful business if there wasn’t a demand for it. I think that, if this Asian specific program is successful, shows that there is a real desire to do so.
I think this program has a far greater benefit that people realize.
Just the other night, I was speaking to my cousin who was in an Asian specific venue. He noticed that as soon as he spoke to an Asian girl, no matter if he was interested in her or not, he was automatically and brutally cockblocked by another Asian guy.
He got angry at first but then realized something. The reason why so many Asian guys cockblock each other is because resources are low. With the massive outdating/marriage of Asian women, there are less to go around. Since Asian men believe non-Asian women won’t give them the time of day, they’re forced to protect what little he has left.
This is why I believe that encouraging Asian men to date and marry non-Asian women will stop the self cannibalization of Asian men. Believe it or not, I believe that as more Asian men outmarry, the more Asian women would look inwards.
Here’s the reason why: I believe that much of the racial stereotyping of Asian men comes from Asian women. If white women, which society sees as the alpha woman, see Asian men as a desirable dating partner, it will actually change Asian women in two ways. 1.) “Hey, white women are dating Asian men and white women will never put up with sexism. 2.) “Crap, I no longer have Asian men in my back pocket to go to whenever I want. I must play defensive and keep them from spilling out to white women.”
No matter how civilized human beings claim to be, it always comes back to animal instincts.
Always.
PS: I was watching a nature program about the life story of a pride of lions and it could be compared to Asian men very easily. Long story short, the summer rains have not come this year and the region was facing a severe drought. This caused the zebra and gazelle, the lions’ normal pray, to dwindle by migration. This caused a ton of infighting within the pride. The only other pray out there were water buffalo which are more defensive which the lions’ believed to more trouble than it’s worth (they might get injured). When the starving lions did manage to kill a lone zebra/gazelle, all the younger lions and cubs were pushed to the side. Eventually, they all starved to death. Sometimes, the alpha and bigger lions would kill the cubs on purpose because they viewed them as a future threat.
Eventually, 90% of the lions died of starvation. The bigger ones eventually got weaker and were killed off by a different pride.
“This is why I believe that encouraging Asian men to date and marry non-Asian women will stop the self cannibalization of Asian men. Believe it or not, I believe that as more Asian men outmarry, the more Asian women would look inwards.”
I agree with this too, and aside from the PUA, I agree with everything else you say. (and I’d even say that PUA might be okay, if they made core values a part of their curriculum).
So let me ask this, urb4n–is that the end goal then? To get more Asian women to “look inwards?” If so, then it really isn’t about White women after all, right?
I think the ‘end goal’ (or intention) is different for each individual or couple. However, the RESULT IS Asian men end up with more dating options and quite possibly over time that more Asian women will come to appreciate Asian men.
This comment doesn’t have so much to do with the initial thred of PUA, but other comments have led me here.
Why isn’t the end goal to find what is right for you? Why not change our attitude and behavior toward dating, sex, marriage and other forms of relationships and the rest will fall into place?
Maybe women need training to recognize cockblocking?
Maybe men need training to identify the girls who would be a waste of energy because they are open to meeting people.
Maybe both sexes need to learn to honestly evaluate his or her own needs and desires in order to find the person who fits what one is looking for? We also need to ask the rght questions during a date and scale your date on compatability and know when to cut the line if it is not going to work.
I think we all need to learn how to politely break off a relationships and we all need to learn how to read a break up and move on.
That is why I say we need “finishing school” or something; call it whatever you want, call it a dating rodeo or Junior High 2021.
@American Girl,
I’ve always felt it was about compatability more than anything else and that person can be anyone. And I think you’re right in saying that both sexes need to HONESTLY evaluate just what they want from a relationship. The end goal SHOULD be about what is right for you; we all have varied experiences and so there won’t be one right answer for everyone.
I’ve said it before: happiness in life is sometimes hard to attain, so take love where you can with the best possible match you can find. It isn’t about settling for less. But I don’t think it’s healthy to put your life on hold, waiting for something that might not show up, or to have expectations and standards that no one could ever fufill.
No.
The point is for Asian men to date outside more. Having Asian women look inward is just a small side perk. The reason why dating white women offsets the intense damage which Asian women are responsible for.
Every month, I give about 2k to charity. I’m currently thinking of finding Asian guys who are looking to attend these classes and paying their way. I’m going to fix the problem they I feel is best. If it’s wrong, so be it. However, at least I am willing to do something whereas no one even wants to admit that this is a big problem.
Make no mistake. I have no incentive to help Asian America as a whole. I don’t believe Asian women support Asian men at all; how can you if you’ve placed Asian men on the same value system as white men? Also, I fault Asian men for lacking a spine to stand up for themselves against the nonsense of Asian women and white men.
The only times Asian men in America grow balls is when they attack their own. Selfish social cannibals.
Sorry for the typos; new blackberry.
A’ight, urb4n,
First, no one here–literally no one–has said that the IR disparity is not a big problem. No one has said it. Point to where someone has said that. If you type in IR on the sidebar, you’ll see that we spend lots of time addressing it. If it weren’t a big problem, we wouldn’t do it.
NOW….
knowing you since February of 2008 and reading your posts both here and on the 44s, you have finally finally finally succeeded in offending me. Seriously, your last post was the single most offensive thing I’ve read on my blog. Actually, it’s the most offensive thing I’ve read on this blog OR the 44s in the past five years. I’m truly hurt. You wrote:
“Every month, I give about 2k to charity. I’m currently thinking of finding Asian guys who are looking to attend these classes and paying their way. I’m going to fix the problem they I feel is best. “
That’s $24,000 a year, enough to pay a secretary at a small nonprofit. Justin Lin had to BEG for money from Asian investors, Minority Militant is running his Project X on a shoestring, I did my own begging to fly Frank Chin to Portland, and you are planning to give money to a bunch of PUAs who practice corny lines and try to trick women into sex? With $2,000 a month going to charity, you won’t even contribute to help bring Sam Yoon into office? So many real projects could use that money, and you’re going to be contributing money to teach a bunch of losers how to neg and peacock and ask, “who lies more, men or women”?
It’s your money, and you should spend it as you see. But I really am offended. I’m so offended that I’m out of words.
Okay, I guess I’m not out of words. At $24k a year, you could set up your own annual literary prize and get people to write whatever stories you wanted to hear. You could set up a film prize. You could set up a foundation–the Densho president only makes $60k a year, and if you partnered with people, you could run a project of equal size. You could change the world.
Shit, man, I’m crying at my keyboard.
uRB4N, in my opinion is quite possibly the smartest Asian American man in the AA blogosphere. He sees practically everything for what it really is and holds nothing back when he speaks. I know he gets a lot of shit from other commentators, but I genuinely appreciate the wisdom of his views.
About 50% of AF marry white men and immigration rates from China and South Korea are dropping because their economies are booming. Which means that every generation, the Asian American population is cut in half.
From my own observations about 80% of Asian men and almost 100% of Asian women do not actively do anything that is for the ‘good of the community’. They are mostly apathetic and lack introspection on many important media image issues.
It seems Asian women have set the wheels in motion through interracial marriage and there is no reversing it.
I am starting to become very cynical about the future of the ‘Asian American community’ 40 years from now. Will the population of full blooded Asian Americans be 25% of what it is today? Will those hapas identify or fight for equality for Asians or will they assimilate further into white society? I just do NOT see Hollywood and media changing the Asian male image for the better ever. Also as our population size decreases, so does our political power and influence. For all these reasons, it’s quite possible that Asian males in the future will have it just as hard as we do today, possibly even harder.
I learned recently that the sole purpose of biological organisms is to live long enough to reproduce. That is the MOST IMPORTANT thing in life. Taking it further, we actively and inactively select our mates with traits that allow for better survival.
Say hypothetically, there were two identical women. One is Asian and one is White. If I were to choose the white woman because my SONS or daughters would be hapa and have a better chance at success in life because they are treated with less discrimination; Would I be wrong?
Jaehwan, if u ever do a podcast with uRB4n again can you ask him to answer my question at the end of my above comment?
Sure!
“uRB4N, in my opinion is quite possibly the smartest Asian American man in the AA blogosphere.”
Since when was intelligence equated with misogyny? Or misanthropy in general?
If supporting Asian men means I have to listen silently as someone treats white women as strategic tools (read: objects), refers to Asian men as eunuchs, and describes Asian women as the scourge of the Asian race, then why should I even try to show support?
I will never support anyone who has little to no regard for human beings in the guise of being the savior who will show us simpletons the light.
What’s ironic? You probably have more hate for yourself than the people you malign in these countless IR debates, urB4n. There can be no other explanation for how you use your words to demean others. What’s scary is how blindly you do this, how anyone that doesn’t wholeheartedly agree with your narrowed philosophy is slashed and burned.
And no retort of “This is just another attempt from Asian women to deflect blame” will make me think otherwise. Though, I do wish that we could one day meet. I’d like to see if you have “the balls” to tell an Asian woman to her face how much you hate her and anyone that vaguely resembles her.
I’ll bite.
So, what do you think is the ideal solution that works in a realistic context?
The key word being realistic.
I would never be presumptuous enough to say I have plan to even out a cultural dating disparity. But I do know what I wouldn’t do, which is participating in the wholesale degradation of entire categories of people.
I’m also not simplistic enough to place blame on specific groups and to make assumptions that the people within these specific groups all share one monolithic thought process. History shows that blame and “re-education” plans are more harmful than beneficial and have little to do with actually helping anyone.
Do I think camps need to be set up for Asian women to unlearn their uncontrollable lust for white men? And for Asian men to find their balls? No. Even if they did exist, what good would it do? They’d probably have a success rate as good as those Christian de-gaying camps. Yet somehow I’m sure they are all equally insulting to the demographics they target.
We can’t start cataloging individual behaviors and extrapolating them to apply to entire groups of people. We can only look at the factors which foster certain behaviors and trends. And by factors, I don’t mean “All these Asian bitches want to be white” or “All these Asian men need to let their dicks swing.” The factors I’m talking about are things like gender roles in Asian American families and communities, media representation, geographic location, health and social problems amongst Asian Americans, education and income disparities, immigration and the question of assimilation, colonialism, and the lingering effects of American racism and sexism, Orientalism, and Model Minority myths and how Asian Americans respond to them (or if they recognize them at all) today.
If we were to somehow balance dating disparities through things like “How to be a Pimp with the White Ladies” workshops and publicly stoning Asian women that date white men, it’d be like slapping a Band-Aid on the all the tremendous underlying factors that contributed to the disparity in the first place.
Some wonder about the effectiveness of discussion and say that discussion still isn’t helping them get laid. I beg to differ. Discussion spurs communication which spurs action which spurs things like policy change and social movements. The problem with the AA IR debate? There’s rarely discussion. There’s rarely recognition of a larger problem that can’t be solved in one gender “fixing” themselves. There’s only finger-pointing along with healthy doses of sexism and racism. And that is one of the ways this Asian American generation is slowly but surely breaking itself.
And that’s as realistic as I can put it.
There is obviously an “outdating” imbalance between AM/AF, and uRB4N asks the right question in seeking to find a realistic solution.
That is, if there is really a solution to be found.
If AA women are dating White men (at a high rate), then what will be the result if AA men achieve “balance” by dating White women at the same high rate? There will be twice as many Asians dating and marrying White people. And the Asian American community will benefit how?
Would this not make the divide between AM and AF even larger, the problem even greater?
It sounds like a great way to exact revenge, but it’shard to see the strategic value to the AA community at large.
PS: I was watching a nature program about the life story of a pride of lions and it could be compared to Asian men very easily. Long story short, the summer rains have not come this year and the region was facing a severe drought. This caused the zebra and gazelle, the lions’ normal pray, to dwindle by migration. This caused a ton of infighting within the pride. The only other pray out there were water buffalo which are more defensive which the lions’ believed to more trouble than it’s worth (they might get injured). When the starving lions did manage to kill a lone zebra/gazelle, all the younger lions and cubs were pushed to the side. Eventually, they all starved to death. Sometimes, the alpha and bigger lions would kill the cubs on purpose because they viewed them as a future threat.
Eventually, 90% of the lions died of starvation. The bigger ones eventually got weaker and were killed off by a different pride.
I’d like to reinforce what URB4N is saying. This is a perfect analogy because I view the IR disparity as a Darwinian struggle, a game of survival of the fittest. The high rate of Asian women out-dating is an environmental challenge, like the meteor that crashed into the Earth millions of years ago, precipitated an ice age, and wiped out the dinosaurs. Creatures do not pass on their genes and become extinct when they FAIL TO ADAPT TO CHANGES IN THE ENVIRONMENT. Too many Asian guys have their heads up their asses and refuse to change. By change, I mean diversifying your dating/mating portfolio. Too many Asian guys are fixated on a limited pool of Asian women in whatever tiny, little world that they inhabit. I see it all the time. Political economic theory also informs us that when supply of a commodity is limited, demand is high, the price of that commodity goes up. When Asian guys refuse to diversify their portfolios and fight over a limited pool of Asian women, you are only empowering them even more and shooting yourself in the foot. The dating/mating marketplace obeys the laws of power struggle. It is a power struggle, make no mistake. Wake up!
Actually, I’m also starting to agree with uRB4N…
His way isnt P.C or pretty, but its realistic, and to be disappointedly honest, I’m starting to see that its true….:(
For a community that is weak, dating into the power structure seems attractive to some,…..but once you get there will the outcome be what you want?
In western society, White women are portrayed as pure, womanly, good mothers while Asian women are more portrayed as cheap/sleazy objects to be used or oriental submissive blossoms to be controlled and dominated. Asian females are ‘prized’ by whites, but they are still never considered “Alpha” when compared to white women
Will Asian men be considered more “Alpha” and attractive to everyone else when they date white women? ……or will something else happen?(like in the black community)
Has nothing to do with not being politically incorrect. Even if someone puts it in a “friendly” format, Asian Americans (especially Asian women) can’t and won’t admit it because you’re so defensive and so immature that you focus on good news.
You’ve never had broccoli served to you; you’re too busy reaching for the candy.
Grow up.
That brings me to my second observation about Asian Americans. It’s the sheer immaturity and how they focus on how the world “should” work. This is why it’s so easy for Asian Americans to be pushed around in North America.
You listen to others and always go with the flow.
This is why Asian Americans and Asians, in general, will never be trend setters. You follow. Others lead. You have no bias towards your own community (I date whoever is near me, not focusing on my own) but everyone else is concentrating inwards. You’re destined to lose. It’s inevitable.
Just then, I figured out why Asian men are so socially weak in this country. My cousin always said that “behind every strong man lies an even more powerful woman.” Figure it out.
“”This is why Asian Americans and Asians, in general, will never be trend setters. You follow. Others lead.”"
Youre mistaken about not being trendsetters or leaders uRB4N. Wait, you’ll see, things are happening.
Also, my experience is that secure alpha Azn women always seek out the alpha men in any situation, and between a alpha white male and an Alpha Azn male, they always pick the Alpha Azn male first. This is from personal experience;
In High school there was one real fly Azn guy in my class.Lets just call him Steve. Incredibly handsome, alluring light brown eyes, the real east asian northern chinese/mongolian look, about 6′ 80 kg , he worked out and looked fit, strong, masculine. While all the other Azn guys drove Honda civics that their parents bought them, he drove a Benz that he bought with his own money.
It was really funny because in the class there were a group of white males, i guess you might call them “Jocks” with a token Asian guy in their group. They tried to hit on the all the Asian girls in the class, especially the more ..um.. “pretty” ones, but we never even gave them a chance. We always hung around with Steve. Whereever Steve was, there was always a pretty Azn girl speaking to him.
The white jocks noticed, and began to talk all kinds of BS. One time they were sitting right behind us and tried to speak, but after being brushed off, said to each other ” why they always talking to Steve, what do they talk to him about” really defensively, like hurt little boys ,then the token Asian jock guy goes “theyre probably sexing him” then they all the other white jocks started laughing , one of them saying “me luv you long time hahaha”. Steve turned around, and looked straight at them – and they stopped talking , he didnt even say anything. Then after class ended, one of them “accidently” pushed into Steve and said “dont push into me bro” Steve just smiled and said “Okay” sarcastically.
Of course that just made the girls like Steve even more. Eventually he started dating a really cool, really pretty AB Viet chick. Last I heard, they were still happily dating, he’s achieving his CPA, she’s studying vet science. What you said;
“”You have no bias towards your own community (I date whoever is near me, not focusing on my own) but everyone else is concentrating inwards. You’re destined to lose. It’s inevitable”"
Its simply not true.
P.S the addition of the token Asian guy making offensive comments into the story is because its true, not attacking Asian guys. Also that guy was a real bastard, happy to be the token Asian guy, laughing while people made fun of other Asians. You dont need to be an Asian female to damage the AA community, uRB4N.
I agree Anna: Alpha Asians, men and women, are usually taken.
It’s funny in the animal kingdom, male birds tend to have more ornate features, which sometimes serve no survival purpose. In fact, some of these bright colors and ornate physical features tend to be detrimental to survival, because it makes the male a noticeable target for predators.
And yet the females desire these characteristics in their mates. It signifies that if the male can survive this long with the ornate features, then it demonstrates that he is a fit and tough male worthy of protecting her and their offspring.
A person of color who stands out and who can survive and even thrive in the midst of adversity is highly desirable to the opposite sex, even to one of a different ethnicity.
While anecdotal evidence is fine, you can’t allow that to be your basis on what the overall situation is like. It’s akin to digging your head in the sand.
“Also, my experience is that secure alpha Azn women always seek out the alpha men in any situation, and between a alpha white male and an Alpha Azn male, they always pick the Alpha Azn male first.”
Although unintentional on your part, what you have said here is somewhat condescending. It menas that if an Asian man has NOT been sought out by “secure Asian women,” then he must not have been a REAL alpha Asian man.
Or else, it implies that any Asian female who ends up being more atracted to a particular alpha White guy, rather than a particular alpha Asian guy is, ipso facto, an insecure Asian woman.
Naturally, this is overly simplistic.
While you guys were busy “brainstorming,” I will tell you the realistic answer with no passive aggressiveness.
Here it is.
The reason why the disparity is so large is because Asian women have very little vested interest in promoting their culture to a future generation. Why? Simple. As they marry out, their ability to promote it down to their children is small because their partners, who aren’t of the same culture, have no vested interest in promoting it either. This is another reason why Asian women who claim they support Asian America while dating out is disjointed. I’ve also said that the emasculation of Asian men is a primary concern and by their actions, don’t fight the problem, it promotes it but I digress.
Asian men, on the other hand, tend to be more inclined to promote thier culture down the line. In essence, they tend to care more about their “bloodline.”
Additionally, Asian women dread being labeled as “spinsters” who will never marry. This tends to cause them to find a partner. ANY partner. I’m sure you’ve heard the phrase “I just date who’s around me” many times before.
And finally, “Charisma Man Syndrome” and/or inferiority complex. I’m sure you all know about Charisma Man and inferiority complex would comprise the lot of Asian women who press and insult Asian men to feel more accepted.
Done.
Accept it.
asianguy:
I am starting to become very cynical about the future of the ‘Asian American community’ 40 years from now. Will the population of full blooded Asian Americans be 25% of what it is today? Will those hapas identify or fight for equality for Asians or will they assimilate further into white society?
I learned recently that the sole purpose of biological organisms is to live long enough to reproduce. That is the MOST IMPORTANT thing in life. Taking it further, we actively and inactively select our mates with traits that allow for better survival.
Say hypothetically, there were two identical women. One is Asian and one is White. If I were to choose the white woman because my SONS or daughters would be hapa and have a better chance at success in life because they are treated with less discrimination; Would I be wrong?
Ah yes. The future of the Asian-American community…as if we actually have one right now. One wonders if there is really such a thing as the Asian-American community or if it’s a mostly a mirage. We Asians are always so busy working hard and busy getting expensive edumacations (mostly glorified trade schools, really). Where is the time to have this so-called “community”? Wanna know why Asians work so hard? Because they have very little else going on in their lives.
Having said that, why is it that Asian men are always the ones to be so damn concerned about the community? In all other minority groups, it is the women who are care for the community on a collective scale in much the same way that a wife priorities her family over other things on the individual level. Our’s is the singular exception.
You need to know something: it takes two to tangle. I’m not convinced that Asian women see eye-to-eye on this matter.
Here’s another line: If you cant beat them, join them. If both AMs and AFs date out is that bad for the community? As opposed to what though excatly? AFs dating out and AMs sitting at home jerking off on weekends?
Does not the wisdom and teachings you pass down to your mixed offspring of any consequence or does the definition of community consist of a bunch of people sharing a particular physical phenotype?
I just do NOT see Hollywood and media changing the Asian male image for the better ever. Also as our population size decreases, so does our political power and influence. For all these reasons, it’s quite possible that Asian males in the future will have it just as hard as we do today, possibly even harder.
We really gotta stop whining about Hollywood, media, and other stuff that you cannot control. It’s old and it’s damn tired. We need Asian men stepping up to the plate, IN REAL LIFE, dating out with women of all kinds. If I had a choice between a thousand movies coming out with positive AM depictions and the latter…I’ll take the latter. When AMs are seen in public with all kinds of women, other women notice, and they talk about it with their friends and their friends open up to such possibilities. That is how we will have a positive impact on our own image. AMs need to talk, discuss, and challenge other AMs…forget Hollywood, the media, and everything else.
Sorry, bad formatting above
asianguy:
I am starting to become very cynical about the future of the ‘Asian American community’ 40 years from now. Will the population of full blooded Asian Americans be 25% of what it is today? Will those hapas identify or fight for equality for Asians or will they assimilate further into white society?
I learned recently that the sole purpose of biological organisms is to live long enough to reproduce. That is the MOST IMPORTANT thing in life. Taking it further, we actively and inactively select our mates with traits that allow for better survival.
Say hypothetically, there were two identical women. One is Asian and one is White. If I were to choose the white woman because my SONS or daughters would be hapa and have a better chance at success in life because they are treated with less discrimination; Would I be wrong?
Ah yes. The future of the Asian-American community…as if we actually have one right now. One wonders if there is really such a thing as the Asian-American community or if it’s a mostly a mirage. We Asians are always so busy working hard and busy getting expensive edumacations (mostly glorified trade schools, really). Where is the time to have this so-called “community”? Wanna know why Asians work so hard? Because they have very little else going on in their lives.
Having said that, why is it that Asian men are always the ones to be so damn concerned about the community? In all other minority groups, it is the women who are care for the community on a collective scale in much the same way that a wife priorities her family over other things on the individual level. Our’s is the singular exception.
You need to know something: it takes two to tangle. I’m not convinced that Asian women see eye-to-eye on this matter.
Here’s another line: If you cant beat them, join them. If both AMs and AFs date out is that bad for the community? As opposed to what though excatly? AFs dating out and AMs sitting at home jerking off on weekends?
Does not the wisdom and teachings you pass down to your mixed offspring of any consequence or does the definition of community consist of a bunch of people sharing a particular physical phenotype?
I just do NOT see Hollywood and media changing the Asian male image for the better ever. Also as our population size decreases, so does our political power and influence. For all these reasons, it’s quite possible that Asian males in the future will have it just as hard as we do today, possibly even harder.
We really gotta stop whining about Hollywood, media, and other stuff that you cannot control. It’s old and it’s damn tired. We need Asian men stepping up to the plate, IN REAL LIFE, dating out with women of all kinds. If I had a choice between a thousand movies coming out with positive AM depictions and the latter…I’ll take the latter. When AMs are seen in public with all kinds of women, other women notice, and they talk about it with their friends and their friends open up to such possibilities. That is how we will have a positive impact on our own image. AMs need to talk, discuss, and challenge other AMs…forget Hollywood, the media, and everything else.
“I learned recently that the sole purpose of biological organisms is to live long enough to reproduce.”
That would make it the prime biological imereative, not the sole biological imperative. But it only holds true when applied to populations, not individuals. In population preservation, it is imperative that some individuals NOT reproduce.
We need Asian men stepping up to the plate, IN REAL LIFE, dating out with women of all kinds. If I had a choice between a thousand movies coming out with positive AM depictions and the latter…I’ll take the latter. When AMs are seen in public with all kinds of women, other women notice, and they talk about it with their friends and their friends open up to such possibilities.
True, BUT…
…with Asian men and Asian women BOTH outdating at high rates, there will be very few Asian men or Asian women left (in the US/West) in future generations. But maybe that is inevitable.
Just a thought here: I don’t take TOO much stock in using biology in the animal kingdom as comparable to human behavior. Sure, we all have biological urges and needs for our individual survival, but I’m hesitant to take it all the way and make it applicable to humans. Just because in the animal kingdom the male species wants to mate as much as possible to propogate the species doesn’t mean it’s justificiation for men to cheat on their wives or girlfriends and use the old, “Hey, it’s biology, I can’t control my dick” excuse.
What makes us different from the animal kingdom is that we actually have a higher consciousness. Our behavior is tempered due to our capacity for reason and thought. And sometimes irrational thought.
Biological instinct analogies can only take you so far. Because if all that mattered were our instincts, by now, I’d have killed everyone I thought was a threat to me.
…with Asian men and Asian women BOTH outdating at high rates, there will be very few Asian men or Asian women left (in the US/West) in future generations. But maybe that is inevitable.
The way I see it, the fate of our community is largely up to Asian women, and what they decide to do as a demographic entity. May God be with us.
@ mojorider: good point.
@ kobukson: Meaning that if Asian women, as a broad demographic, simultaneously “came to their senses,” all may not be lost?
I think the biggest problem (in ALL ethnicities) is that the focus of personal advantage almost always trumps the broad and fuzzy concept of “ethnic progress.”
In other words, people very rarely say, “Hey that girl/guy is HOT, and they keep staring at me and smiling…. Too bad that it would make my race look bad if I dated them.” Would you want to be with a woman who was dating you primarily out of loyalty to your race?
@King – well, if ugly mutts like Billy Joel can marry Christie Brinkley, Rod Stewart can marry Rachel Hunter, Rik Ocasek marries Paulina Porizkova, Dudley Moore dates Susan Anton….
well, the biological instinct thing goes so far. These women had their own money, they didn’t need economic security from these guys. But they weren’t going to marry some average Joe Schlub the mainteance man but someone on their own economic/classs level. But they could’ve chosen to partner up with many other men who were far more handsome than these guys. So there is some other intangibles, some other qualities that went into their decision to partner up with these guys and it has nothing to do with straight, pure physical attraction being urged on by our primordial instincts in our brains.
The outdating observation is interesting. Thru IR rmarriage, is our community being absorbed into the broader pre-dominant culture of the North America and the West in general? Or in the bigger scope of things, are we as a race absorbing THEM? There are still a billion Chinese on the other side of the world, another billion in India. With the Chinese flexing their economic muscle and India coming into its own, and the US debt being financed by the Chinese, is it possible that there is a power shift while the US is in possible decline as a super power? That in the end, like rapper Jin said, “y’all gonna learn
Chinese” ?
If I were a business major in undergrad, I think I’d be minoring in Chinese as well.
King: In other words, people very rarely say, “Hey that girl/guy is HOT, and they keep staring at me and smiling…. Too bad that it would make my race look bad if I dated them.” Would you want to be with a woman who was dating you primarily out of loyalty to your race?
I agree with the first statement. It’s rather silly to find someone attractive and not follow through on it because of some ill-defined, fuzzy concept of community. Certainly, Asian women aren’t. Personally, I don’t fear for our community though. There’s enough Asian-American couples producing AA babies out there. I also believe in the primacy of individual liberty over the collective. And, of course, I believe Asian men are more likely as fathers to rear their mixed race progeny to develop a healthy identity as an AA, which BTW is organic and constantly in flux. With AFs married to WMs or whatever, who the hell knows?
I see the community headed toward a slow-motion schism along the gender divide faultlines, not disappearing.
Well, we can only talk about the West. There is obviously NO CHANCE of Asian ethnicities or cultures being wiped out through interdating/intermarriage in Asia.
And, to be honest, even if every Asian man and woman in the U.S.A. and Canada married into the dominant culture, the very next day an Asian immigrant would arrive and then another and another…
The Asian culture is not going to dissapear even in the West.
And really nobody is actually “absorbing” anyone else.
It’s always a mix of both culture and genetics.
There’s a lot of hand-wringing about the community. OK, let’s consider the two broad options
1. Asian women dating out. Asian men limiting themselves to a diminished pool and the rest falling through the cracks of the IR divide.
2. Asian women dating out. Asian men not limiting themselves and there’s a growing movement where AMs are exploring the full spectrum.
No matter what, Asian women will date out. You can’t stop that. Given this, I don’t see how 1 is better than 2, even taking community into full consideration.
“I agree with the first statement. It’s rather silly to find someone attractive and not follow through on it because of some ill-defined, fuzzy concept of community. Certainly, Asian women aren’t.”
Agree. But then, it’s “Asian women” we’re talking about only because they have greater access and greater acceptance to the dominant culture. (at this point in time)
So, tell me very honestly—if it had been Asian men who were the victims of blondes with an Asian man fetish, you think it would have turned out differently? Noble Asian men would have sacrificed for their culture? They would have acted in the name of Azn Pride rather than male lust?
1. Asian women dating out. Asian men limiting themselves to a diminished pool and the rest falling through the cracks of the IR divide.
2. Asian women dating out. Asian men not limiting themselves and there’s a growing movement where AMs are exploring the full spectrum.
Given this, I don’t see how 1 is better than 2, even taking community into full consideration.”
Agreed. #2 is a better option than #1, given that it is not an existensial threat to Asian culture. I therefore withdraw my previous concerns.
Asian men should knock themselves out in the jaccuzzi of inter-etthnic dating diversity
So, tell me very honestly—if it had been Asian men who were the victims of blondes with an Asian man fetish, you think it would have turned out differently? Noble Asian men would have sacrificed for their culture? They would have acted in the name of Azn Pride rather than male lust?
King, if you’re ever in the Bay Area, I’m buying you a drink.
Haha… can you just send it down to LA… it won’t spoil!
King: So, tell me very honestly—if it had been Asian men who were the victims of blondes with an Asian man fetish, you think it would have turned out differently? Noble Asian men would have sacrificed for their culture? They would have acted in the name of Azn Pride rather than male lust?
Why does it have to be blondes? Currently, there are many eligible, well pedigreed Asian men who can choose anybody but consistently choose Asian women. Even without your hypothetical, fictional scenario, we know what the answer is to your question, just going by reality itself.
Blondes because blondes are more heavily marketed as the ideal of female beauty in the West.
Of course, there are well-pedigreed Asian men who choose Asian women as mates— just as there are well-pedigreed Asian women who choose Asian men today, in spite of the imbalance.
However the implication of the question was to ask whether or not there would be a gender inequity (iof Asian men outdating) if blonde haired, blue eyed, caucasian women, were the first to display an Asian fetish toward Asian men.
In other words, is this specifically a gender problem, or is it really a human problem that would be just as bad if the shoe was on the other foot, genderwise.
“So, tell me very honestly—if it had been Asian men who were the victims of blondes with an Asian man fetish, you think it would have turned out differently? Noble Asian men would have sacrificed for their culture? They would have acted in the name of Azn Pride rather than male lust?”
So, tell me very honestly-if it had been African American people who were the beneficiaries of privilege and being the dominant, ruling class, you think it would have turned out differently? Noble African men & women would have sacrificed for their fellow white human counterparts? They would have acted in the name of Humanity and enlightened social conscience rather than privileged, ignorant, manipulative, apathetic, appropriating, controlling human beings with power and privilege?
I love this game! How do you play?
“In other words, is this specifically a gender problem, or is it really a human problem that would be just as bad if the shoe was on the other foot, genderwise.”
Why does that matter? There is still a problem! – Does it make the problem go away? Racism is also a human problem too.
the African American interracial dating disparity is often used as an inverse example of the Asian American situation.
have there been any efforts to have As Am men and Af Am men discuss this topic together? i think it’d be a really interesting discussion. plus it might be more productive, seeing as how talks b/w AA men and women are at a stalemate (in my opinion). and since the discussion wouldn’t be with “the enemy” (AA women, in some of your opinions) it just may shed some light on the issue which would benefit us all.
get a podcast going, Byron!
Hey Sylvie,
“have there been any efforts to have As Am men and Af Am men discuss this topic together?”
We actually DID do this a LONG time ago with me, King, and Larry, but we never actually hit the record button! (The story is that I thought we’d get to know each other first. Big mistake. We talked and talked and then it was just too weird to record.) You can read Larry’s synopsis here, which was originally posted on the 44s:
http://www.bigwowo.com/2008/09/44s-teleconference-notes/
Have people’s views changed? Well, it was before I knew kobukson and before we had all of our podcasts, so maybe they have. urB4N and King would make a good podcast.
“So, tell me very honestly-if it had been African American people who were the beneficiaries of privilege and being the dominant, ruling class, you think it would have turned out differently? Noble African men & women would have sacrificed for their fellow white human counterparts? They would have acted in the name of Humanity and enlightened social conscience rather than privileged, ignorant, manipulative, apathetic, appropriating, controlling human beings with power and privilege?
Actually, no, I don’t.
I don’t assume that a change in pymentation would change the way power and oppression works on human beings, regardless their culture. The White man is no more a genetic or cultural “Devil” than the Black man, or any man.
Why… what were you expecting?
“Why does that matter? There is still a problem! – Does it make the problem go away? Racism is also a human problem too.”
Because if you can see it as a human problem, then you may concede that, put in someone else’s shoes, you might end up doing the same dance that they are.
We actually DID do this a LONG time ago with me, King, and Larry,
Larry King? What?
I know when that discussion happened, it wasn’t intentional. But it seems to be suggested here that AF Am men and AS Am men should intentionally get together to discuss the IR topic. Why? How would it be more interesting and productive? I sense that that suggestion was made with a bit of hopeless sarcasm.
@King,
Why do I personally need to concede anything? I have never said that the issue was somehow caused by something genetically ingrained in Asian females. Furthermore, you are missing the point. Who cares about whether the shoe is on the other foot. There is still a wrong and issue that needs to be fixed, just like the regular type of racism…it doesn’t matter who benefits. So don’t make irrelevant, blanket statements that do not address the main issue but rather cast personal judgments on those who lean towards one side or the other on the issue.
“Actually, no, I don’t.
I don’t assume that a change in pymentation would change the way power and oppression works on human beings, regardless their culture. The White man is no more a genetic or cultural “Devil” than the Black man, or any man.
Why… what were you expecting?”
I agree. I was being fecitious, but that was my point. What were YOU expecting when you asked that? Does it justify anything and address the issue?
I think I’ve discovered a solution to the nagging IR problem in the Asian American community.
It’s ingenious, innovative, and sure to bring an end to that acrimonious gender division in the community.
Asian Pride Porn!
http://www.pakbuzz.com/asian_pride_porn/
http://www.atom.com/funny_videos/asian_pride_porn/
It’s HAWT Asian male-female action like you’ve never seen.
“Why do I personally need to concede anything?”
When someone says that you “MAY” concede a point, it does not imply that you MUST. If you don’t, then you don’t.
What I was pointing out was that it’s easy to look at this problem as if it’s some wierd case of Asian women being somehow different than women of other ethnicities, and even different from Asian men, in how they might deal with the attention and advances of the dominant culture.
You reacted to me above because my question implied that Asian men MIGHT have been capable of acting in a simularly way had the tables had been turned.
You then turned the tables on me, and asked if I felt the same way about Blacks, Whites and Slavery, had the tables been turned! But I did feel the same way. In fact, I readily admitted that Black people were as capable of prejudice, ignorance, and attrocities as anybody else.
But you have yet to admit that it is possible that you are capable of the same behaviors that you are denouncing. Is this what you truly believe? That you could never act like that? You would not act in self-interest? You would be stronger than that? I wonder why do you believe this?
Is it because you are better? More moral? Are you religious?
@King
Why are you quoting me out of context and putting words in my mouth I did not say or type. Or are you genuinely obtuse?
“You reacted to me above because my question implied that Asian men MIGHT have been capable of acting in a simularly way had the tables had been turned.”
Contrary to your belief and the response you intended to solicit when you typed your original “question”, I reacted to you because as I clearly asked…does that justify the IR disparity and make it okay and acceptable? You never answered. It seems like you were trying to make an ad hominem argument of some kind. Does it absolve Asian women who behave in a certain fashion due to certain impeding and unjust social factors?
I quoted, requited, and framed what you asked in the context of the black and white racial and social economic schism to show how ridiculous and irrelevant your question is. What is your ultimate point exactly? Everyone understands and acknowledges that all humans possess the same range of behaviors and motivations. But does that mean that racism is okay and we should accept the status quo. Or in this case, does it mean it is okay for certain Asian Am women to lack self and social-cultural awareness or act and make choices based on false beliefs driven by an oppressive society?
“But you have yet to admit that it is possible that you are capable of the same behaviors that you are denouncing. Is this what you truly believe?”
Again I have addressed this more than plenty already and even in this very post. And if you don’t understand my point, then I don’t know what to say. It baffles me a little why you are trying so hard to get an admission? And just the way you have worded your puzzling inquiry is kinda off as well.
So let me try to address your question as if you had phrased them differently and as if you had asked a different question all together for the reasons I have pointed out. To discuss the parallel universe you were trying to articulate, we would have to actually define that parallel universe. There would be new variables and many existing variables would be different between the two universes. And in order to understand these variables, we must understand why Asian Am women in the current universe limit themselves to certain choices. From there, we can evaluate whether those reasons are applicable to Asian Am men in this parallel universe. So, yes maybe there is a gender difference which I would argue is due to certain current social constructs and not due to something that is genetically ingrained based solely on gender.
King, I think for the most part you try to view arguments or issues from many angles which is a good thing. And I have always appreciated your perspective and the way you call out flaws in other people’s logic. However, in this instance I just don’t understand what kind of point you were trying to make with your ad hominem question. It misses the mark, trivializes the issue, and it distracts from the focus of the main issue. I just don’t think it is very relevant.
“Why are you quoting me out of context and putting words in my mouth I did not say or type”
Where am I quoting you out of context?
““Contrary to your belief and the response you intended to solicit when you typed your original “question”, I reacted to you because as I clearly asked…does that justify the IR disparity and make it okay and acceptable?”
Why do you believe that I’m trying to justify the disparity? Far from it.
“But does that mean that racism is okay and we should accept the status quo.”
Where have I said that? Are you reading my posts or someone elses?
“…does it mean it is okay for certain Asian Am women to lack self and social-cultural awareness or act and make choices based on false beliefs driven by an oppressive society?”
What’s the matter with you?
Where are you getting this from?
Just to be clear mT, I despise the IR disparity because I believe that it is intentional. I believe that it is an attack on Asian American culture that is calculated to divide and conquer. I believe that the disparity is based on falsehoods, incorrect stereoptypes, and intentionally deceptive marketing, that ranges from word-of-mouth to Hollywood movies.
And mostly, I despise the IR disparity because it is working.