Check your e-mail!

I agree there are other issues. But it would be like having a pornographer talk at an anti-pedophilia rally. One crime (if pornography is a crime) is much more serious than the other. If it were an anti-harassment rally, they probably wouldn’t get the same people showing up because people weren’t stirred up by the claim of harassment; they were stirred up by the claim of a hate crime. In either case, the organizers probably should have disclosed it as such.

mT:

I agree.

Without the targeting though, the burden of proof is on us. It’s gray from a moral standpoint, but from a legal standpoint, it’s black and white–no racial motivation = no hate crime.

I guess my point is that we need to set the standard somewhere. Kind of like this: racists have the right to hate me, and I expect that those feelings of hate would come out in the commission of a crime, but racists have no right to initiate a crime against me based on that hate.

-One is the issue of whether this incident is a hate crime and the proper “community” response. Many people here are arguing that this incident isn’t a hate crime and the response was misguided. Given the circumstances of the case, I won’t disagree with this.

-However, there is the broader issue of Anti-Asian racism and harassment, which this case seems also to be about. To me, some have lost sight of this larger issue in their narrow focus on whether or not this is a “hate crime.”

Laws dont equal whats right/morality. Think about who creates laws, why they created them. Historically its always been those with socio-economic power.

This point that Anna makes is a good one. Laws, morality, and what counts as “right” are not political absolutes. They are ultimately a reflection of who has power–and who does not.

Who has power will define what counts as lawful, moral, or right in the first place.

For example, how many people know that the Oregon contitution once had something called the Lash Law?

This was a law mandating that Black people in Oregon be subject to whippings twice a year until they agreed to leave the state. This was later replaced with a kinder, gentler version: forced labor instead of whippings.

http://www.historicoregoncity.org/HOC/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102&Itemid=75

These laws were all a form of White racial cleansing designed to drive Blacks out and make Oregon a “White homeland,” and they were a codified part of the Oregon constitution. Indeed, similar racist legislation was enforced against Asians with various forms of race taxes.

http://www.beyondtheoregontrail.org/timeline.php

Just because something is legal doesn’t make it moral.

This none more true than in America.

Today, White majority power is much more disguised–usually hidden behind a mask of diversity and symbolic minority frontmen, all the way up to the White House.

But it is predatory just the same.

@ American Girl. As I understand it, the 4 White guys were not only trash talking Bao but escalated it to include racial epithets. That probably is not a so-called hate crime, but that certainly is a “racial incident” (i.e. racist harassment).

However, from a legal perspective and even a moral one, my only question is this. Can hate (in this case racial hate)escalate and/or compound a crime that was not orignally motivated or intiated by hate? So let’s say you get into a altercation and get punched in the face once, would racial hate get you punched in the face twice and stabbed at least once even though that hate was not the root cause of the initiation of the altercation? It makes it a more complexing issue and not so much black and white anymore no?

You know already how i feel about this incident. I’m going to respectfully disagree with people who take the idealistic position and leave it at that, because otherwise this discussion will continue in a pointless circle…

Its really about life experiences, and we are all unique. Theres obviously reasons why people are taking different sides over this, I’m not going to discount other peoples reasons further or try to explain a position that can only be arrived at by a life experience.

what can i say American girl, you still dont get it, lol (shakes head)………

Not going to waste my time bothering to reply to your comments.

You take care now.

Just a few things…and of course, feel free to disagree…

1. Morality: Morality defeats power. Martin Luther King was a great example. He put black people in front of dogs and fire hoses, powerless Black people who got beaten by powerful White people with institutional and physical power. He ordered them not to fight. Through their moral superiority combined with mass physical weakness, they destroyed Jim Crow.

Malcolm basically did the same thing. He preached that black people had the right to be violent, but never in his life did he ever encourage violence because he knew that to do so would be to concede the moral upper hand.

This is what Leon and King are saying. Morality is an unstoppable force when combined with the means of publicizing it. And deep down inside, we all know right from wrong.

Look at the leaders of this Portland rally. They can’t be open about what really happened with Bao. They have to worry about people finding out about the sham. If anyone finds out, it’ll be an embarrassment to everyone involved, even those who rallied but didn’t originally know about it.

Plus, think about this–what if it were really successful and launched thousands of other protests? Historians would have to reveal that it was based on a LIE. As King says in the other thread, once you begin intentionally dealing in lies, you destroy the dialog.

2.

Anna,

American Girl isn’t trying to be critical of you, she’s trying to help by offering life experience. I am in the same boat as she is–our beliefs about mindset are very similar. Both of us are a little bit older. When you get to our age, it becomes about specific accomplishments rather than general expression, and those who achieve at our age do so because we find ways to accomplish what we need to. It’s not just her or me either–check out 8 Asians Ernie or Alpha Asian. Hell, even Dialectic, the guy who founded the 44s, is telling the young ‘uns to chill (I disagree completely with D, by the way, but you see the general trend about moving from general expression to specific accomplishments).

One of the reasons I believe the community failed Bao is that people allowed him to whine publicly about a hate crime that never happened (mT, it has to be motivated by hate, i.e. let’s go beat a Chinese guy). People were calling him a hero, and leaders who knew about the misinformation gave him a platform to continue the narrative. How can we raise a strong generation if we encourage people to scream racism when their egos get hurt? As Leon said, “it’s no longer a fight for justice” if you or the organization that represents you is lying.

Racism exists, and we need to fix it, but we also need to do what we can to become better people–both as individuals and as a society.

You think I am trying to derail you? It is unfortunate that you feel that way. If your only response to my points are ad hominem, it just goes to show your points are ill formulated.

At the end of the day, all you have is your reputation. You want power, its right in front of you. Just grab it. Don’t let it grab you back.

My position remains the same. Bao’s incident is a weak one, because no hate crime exists. I’m saying, find a legitimate hate crime to make hay with. You want to hang your hat on a non-exisitent hate crime, you want to “burn down the house” over a sham?

While you are at it, why not set the record straight with your classmates? You care so much about how they percieve you? You are worried they will think you are an Asian that can’t take a joke? Right now they think you are a bad driver and a quite one at that.

Okay.Youve stated your position and i understand, although i disagree.

Americangirl,

“Victim mentality?” …..”give your power away if you want to?” …..”trashing on white people?”..~did you even read what i wrote? theres something about the way you replied, its kind of, wait here it is;

http://www.derailingfordummies.com/

“Packing heat?” you dont get it. I wont say any more.

King,

Laws dont equal whats right/morality. Think about who creates laws, why they created them. Historically its always been those with socio-economic power.