Ed Wang of Virginia Tech
(pic from here)
[As I mentioned in a previous post, life is busy with the activist summer. Thank you to bigWOWO reader Dizzle, who sent the following post. I agree with him on the stereotypes. I remember having a conversation with a Taiwanese woman who kept insisting that Apolo Ohno was a great athlete only because he was half white and had the "white genes." I kept asking, "Well, what about the #2 short track skater, who is full Korean and who managed to still win gold in some events?"
I'm an Apolo fan and was cheering for him to dust those guys from South Korea, but I agree with Dizzle that in terms of stereotypes, there is something to be said about people like Ed Wang. I just hope we Asian people can accept that we're just as good as everyone else. BTW, at 6'4, 300 lbs., Ed Wang is a bigger than Brock Lesnar. Bigger than me too.]
When I was a kid I had always wanted to see more Asians in the big four sports: hockey, basketball, baseball, and football – specifically the NFL. There were some brief appearances like Eugene Chung, an offensive tackle out of Virginia Tech, drafted by the Patriots in the early 90′s. He was a first round draft choice that flamed out after five seasons.
College: Virginia Tech
Height/Weight: 6-4 5/8, 300
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I agree with everything you said. About #1…I think...
What about Dat Nguyen? Did you forget the slanty eyed, feminine, jungle Asian rats? He’s 100% Vietnamese. It’s great that you have these behemoths playing offensive tackles. But I see how people don’t necessarily see them as manly, but instead they just see them as big and therefore play offensive tackle by default. People tend to diminish their skills because of this big principle. It’s like Yao Ming. People actually call him soft and would say that the only reason he’s in the NBA is because he’s very tall and big.
And offensive tackle is a very unglamorous position. So until I see another Dat Nguyen who played linebacker or someone who plays a ‘glamorous’ offensive position, I won’t care too much about the “manly” label. It’s the fame and recognition I want to see. That’s very attractive and manly in itself.
mT,
You bring up a good point with Dat Nguyen. Mea culpa. He won the Lombardi award for best linebacker in the country. While at Texas A&M he led the team in tackles every year he started. He was also drafted by the Cowboys in the third round and made the Pro Bowl.
You’re right that was a glaring omission. On my part. And he did play a position that was considered manly. Absolutely. He did get as decent amount of exposure due to his skill and because he played for the Cowboys.
However…
A big knock on him was the he was “undersized” standing at 5’11″ 230. He was a sure tackler with speed. He was sort of in the mold of Zach Thomas who is approximately the same height/weight. They both were not first round draft choices and tenacious inside linebackers. They were both picked late because of their sizes. The comparisons are endless. But the big difference between the two is longevity.
Dat Ngyuen could’ve made the same sort of name for himself it it had not been for injuries. He surely would’ve changed the “Asian men are not too manly” perception. Definitely. But he only played 6 seasons before a serious neck injury forced him to retire early. Zach Thomas on the other hand is still playing 14+ seasons of football. Most everyone knows Zach Thomas. How many remember Dat Nguyen?
I’m glad you bring up Yao Ming. He is a great example of this perception. He is a dominant force in the middle for the Rockets. Averaging double digit points every season he’s played and pulling down close to 10 rebound per game. He was seriously productive. When he entered the NBA he had tons of detractors that criticized him for his game and his ethnicity. He worked hard and proved them wrong. But NOW his career might be over due to a hairline fracture in his foot. He’s definitely out for the upcoming season. But more importantly his career may be over (here’s a great article on how important Yao was to the NBA: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Aucw7NYeFgQPr1qwiNxxfym8vLYF?slug=awyaorockets071809&prov=yhoo&type=lgns).
Again, another Asian pro career cut short due to injury. There are already people that think the Asian athlete is not talented enough to compete at the pro level. Now they are thinking that if we are good enough but we are too fragile. What good is fame and fortune if longevity is not part of the equation?
The reason why Bruce Lee was so important, and still is, to Asian culture, especially the Asian male identity, is because he was not meek or feminine. He was going to beat your ass despite your best efforts to walk away unscathed. When he died the progress that was made changing the western world’s perception about Asian men suddenly died with him. Instead of being alpha males we are Long Duk Dongs. This would not be the case if Bruce Lee had lived to see the millennia.
This brings me to Ed Wang. Sure being an offensively lineman is not a traditionally glamorous position. They don’t get the recognition QBs, RBs, WRs, and TEs do because they don’t score touchdowns.
But if you ask any analyst, coach, or player football games are won up front. If you have a shaky OL then your super QB is toast. I don’t care how quick their reads and release are there is no way they’re going to survive an entire season or be successful. OL creates the holes and keeps the QB upright. Not glamorous but quite important. But going one on one for 60 minutes with a man just as big and just as strong to protect the pocket is very manly. It is a test of strength and endurance. No other position on the field has that opposing force on every play.
And at 6’4″ 300 lbs no one can say he’s undersized.
You want rich and famous? No other position has the type of longevity that OL does. The Hall of Famer Jackie Slater played nearly 20 years. As well as Anthony Munoz. And Bruce Matthews. The list goes on and on. The longer you play a sport and are good at the more recognition you get. There’s your famous.
Here’s your rich. In the past two drafts which position was most sought after besides QB? That’s right OL. More specifically, OT. Since 2006 of the top ten selections in the NFL draft seven were OT with three being selected in 2009. So 17% of the last four drafts have been OT. Not impressed? How about this: of those seven OTs, Eugene Monroe (this year’s number 8 pick; the lowest OT drafted) will receive between $10 million to $18.7 million in GUARANTEED money.
So if this brotha, Ed Wang, gets drafted then plays 10+ good years in the NFL (and makes millions of dollars) he will change the perception that the Asian male is weak and feminine. The ultimate goal is to be seen as another athlete rather than THAT Asian athlete.
-Dizzle
“there really haven’t been any Asians in the NFL, let alone any stars.” Uhh, have you never heard of Dat Guyen?
I lived in Dallas when Dat played for them, so you KNOW I’m not going to let that pass. And when his career was over he got a huge event thrown by Jerry Jones himself –who has been running the “boys” into the ground for over a decade now!– commemorating his being the “first Asian” to gain notoriety in the NFL. Doesn’t that count for something?
When NFL players get out of the game they usually start restaurants or go into real estate. Guyen was no exception.
He has started a restaurant chain named “Hu-Dat.”
And why knock Dat over his size? As a wise man once said, “It’s not the size of the dog in the fight…”
While he may not have had a “stellar” career he nonetheless performed with distinction. Got a few awards, and went on to a good life AFTER pro-ball. Most players in the game never get even half of what he did.
Neutral Observer,
I never knocked him for his size. I was simply quoting a scouting report. Most coaches (a la Bill Parcells) prefer the prototypical LB size: 6’3″ to 6’5″, 240-260 lbs (see Brian Urlacher; see Keith Brooking; see Demarcus Ware). The thought is that this size and weight is better for the linebacker to stand his ground against the offensive lineman coming down field for to run block. In general, smaller linebackers are enveloped by the larger OL or pancaked. You can’t make a tackle while you’re face down in the turf.
Dat Nguyen was hammered in the middle by the larger offensive lineman. This is part of the reason why he sustained all of those injuries. And yes he has a nice post-football career (he is currently the linebackers coach for the Cowboys). However, it doesn’t detract from the fact that he was injury prone. Like I said in my response to mT, had he had a longer and stellar career this would be moot. The bottom line is not many people outside of the Cowboys organization or Texas really remember him despite being the first Asian LB. Why? Because he played 6 short seasons.
The reason the spotlight on Ed Wang by Gil Brandt is so important is because his position allows him longevity AND public notoriety due to the recent OT heavy drafts, particularly the 2009 draft. Also, his height/weight are of a prototypical tackle – he cannot be labeled UNDERSIZED. If 6’4″ 5/8, 300 lbs is undersized then there is a clear racial bias in the NFL. This misperception is one that can be eliminated if he plays dominantly. He will no longer be viewed as the a good ASIAN O-lineman. He will simply be called a good football player.
Isn’t that the goal of these types of blogs? Our efforts and support for those that break the racial stereotypes?! Here is a guy that football pundits cannot knock for being too small for his position. And, God-willing, stays healthy for 8-10 years so the word “fragile” cannot be associated with him.
I repeat for the last time: I AM NOT KNOCKING DAT NGUYEN!! Being part Vietnamese I was happy and proud the day he was drafted. I quickly became a fan of Jerry Jones because he saw a football player, not a stereotype. Dat Nguyen broke some ground in the NFL, that is for sure. However, the next step is for a player of Asian descent to be one of the faces of a franchise. That’s progress. That’s breaking a stereotype. That should be in the spotlight.
-Dizzle
While it is cool to see Ed Wang recognized I am troubled by the some of the people buying into the taller/bigger a guy is the more manly he is. I remember thinking the same thing after reading a comment here by someone who said they had a tear in their eye when they saw some over 6ft something Asian (Chinese?) guy competing at the Olympics.
Under this rationale no one should complain about IR disparities or Asian men in hollywood being shown as “feminine” and not love interests. Because you are saying taller/bigger is better and thats a game we are not going to win.
Asian will never be any significant percent of the NFL, there are a lot more 6’5 300lb black dudes and whites dudes. And so what!
Asian kick ass in a lot of sports, China (second over all in 2008 Olympic medals ), Japan, Korea, (both beat France and Italy in medal count) still have great athletes you just need to give attention to those sports.
Bruce Lee stood about 5’7 and was a stunning athlete.
Lingyai,
I agree with you and I mentioned exactly what you pointed out in your last sentence. Everyone is getting it mixed up. The point of the post was NOT about height and weight making an Asian man manly. That is far from the point.
Let’s take Bruce Lee for instance. Yes he stood only 5’7″ and was a phenomenal athlete. But as I said in my post to mT, he broke the mold of the weak Asian man because he was so badass. He was ultra talented, extremely confident, intelligent, and charismatic. The Asian stereotype is none of these. He really paved the way for a positive image of the Asian male.
AND that is the point with the Ed Wang spotlight: Asian men TRANSCENDING all of the negative stereotypes we are burdened with. It’s about being something way beyond the negative perceptions. The NFL is just an excellent stage for this to happen. It is considered a “gladiator’s” sport. Arguably, no other sport is viewed as more masculine than the NFL (by American standards).
I have had my fair share of people, especially women, tell me to my face that they are not attracted to Asian men because they are so feminine and frail. With a successful Asian offensive lineman playing pro football, on the sports’ biggest stage, anyone with those thoughts will reconsider their prejudices. At the very least, they will balk at their preconceptions. Hopefully.
Last post,
-Dizzle
I don’t know enough about football to add to the discussion about Dat Nguyen, etc., but when I got to the office today, everyone was talking about Ichiro’s catch:
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090719&content_id=5939416&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
My coworker: “Did you see how high that guy jumped?”
“China (second over all in 2008 Olympic medals ), “
True. China also got the most gold medals:
http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/INF/GL/95A/GL0000000.shtml
Could it be that we need both big athletic guys and small athletic guys? In other words, we need diversity to include excellence in all positions?
jaehwan,
Ichiro has been great for the perception that Japanese players can play with the Americans, and anyone else for that matter (see World Baseball Classic). Though he’s not the first ever Japanese player to play in the bigs – that distinction goes to Masanori Murakami: 1964–1965 San Francisco Giants (Wikipedia) – he certainly has had the biggest impact. Hideo Nomo made waves but after one or two good seasons he fell to the beast called inconsistency. Batters had caught up to him and his unique tornado wind up. Ichiro stands out because he has had a stellar career at least 200 hundred hits in a season, 8 All-Star appearances, speed on the base paths (as witnessed by double digits steals every year), and, to top it all off, he has a cannon for an arm to go along with fantastic defense.
When he came into the league there were tons of doubters despite having an incredible career in Japan. One particular detractor, Rob Dibble, of the then Dan Patrick Show on ESPN and ex-major leaguer, was very vocal about Ichiro making it on the bigs. He was so sure Ichiro was going to fail that he bet Dan Patrick that if Ichiro reaches 200 hits in his first season Rob would have Ichiro’s name tattooed onto his buttocks (I believe that was the exact bet). By season’s end Ichiro surpassed 200 hits and, to his credit, Rob Dibble met his end of the wager.
Ichiro’s first season could’ve been a huge disaster and would’ve set the MLB-Japanese relationship back a few years in addition to confirming the baseball pundits suspicion that the Japanese players aren’t up to MLB standards. Since his success we saw a slew of Japanese ball players make the jump. The year after Ichiro arrived the Yankees got Godzilla, Hideki Matsui. He had a pretty big season for the Yanks then the rest of the followed suit and the flood gates from Japan poured into MLB. Sure there were some flame outs but for the most part I think Japanese players have become proven commodities so there is little doubt about whether Japanese players could survive the big leagues.
He is not particularly big. He stands about 5’9″ and about 180 soaking wet. But his skills and play have surpassed all expectations. He transformed the doubters to believers and that is exactly what the NFL needs. That one player that will make the league see Asian players as just another gladiator on the gridiron.
And being part of the Asian American community I want to highlight the accomplishments of every big league Asian athlete and support them. Because when the success of every Asian athlete is broadcast to the general public we move closer to being viewed as men with no modifiers.
-Dizzle
Ichiro is a fucking stud! I don’t know how much he realizes what he’s done to further the image of Asian males. First of all, he had to battle against the naysayers who felt that the Japanese pro baseball talent wasn’t good enough to play major league baseball. Second, I think he really paved the way for more Japanese players to be accepted in the majors. Or at least made some ball clubs seriously consider looking for talent in Asia and not just in Latin America. Now that he’s proven he is a tough out, he garners the respect from opposing pitchers. He’s put up some incredible stats.
One thing I wish, though, is that we had more homegrown, Asian American talent making it in the pros. Not to disparage our brothers from outside North America, but it would be nice to actually see guys like Timmy Chang have a career in the pros.
And on size and height, well, I’m hoping that the younger generation gets a little bigger so that they CAN compete with other athletes in sports like basketball and football. I see these younger kids around where I live and some of them are a helluva lot taller than me. But height is not the end all/be all. You still have to have the TALENT and pure athleticism still to go with the height.
One thing I wish, though, is that we had more homegrown, Asian American talent making it in the pros.
There is Kurt Suzuki, catcher for the Oakland A’s, as well as Travis Ishikawa, 1B for the San Francisco Giants.
Hahaha Ed Wang is definitely a Hottie!! you can just tell by that look in his eye that his an Alpha lol, its like “THATS RIGHT!, I’M LOOKING AT YOU!” LOL.
And what the hell is all that BS about Asian guys being short? most Asian guys i know are at least 5’9 or over, (and he’s probably the shortest I’ve seen), and it seems to me that all the younger generations of Azns’s or even FOBs are getting taller with each new generation- its all diet, diet, diet.
I’d be interested to know what kind of foods Ed Wang ate when he was growing up, and what he eats now to maintain his weight….
bet he eats 4-5 times a day…..or maybe just three really BIG meals, with lots of meat and carbs….
Larry,
oh yeah, I know about those guys, and it’s great. But I would love to see more AA athletes in places outside of the Bay area….it would go a long way to being seen as being just as good as everyone else when you have them playing in places without a huge concentration of Asian Americans. I remember growing up and seeing Lenn Sakata play for the Baltimore Orioles, it was great seeing him play. He showed everyone he was rock steady and surely capable at short stop. Until he got replaced by, uh, Cal Ripken!
I agree that Asian Americans are getting bigger. I look around at a lot of the people in schools today, even guys who are in their twenties, and I physically look up to almost all of them.
I was thinking about this last night while running (up to 6.25 miles in one shot!), and I think that:
a) Leadership will always be held by the guy who has skills. Usually the medium sized guys possess better skills because they’re quicker and have to use agility. Plus there are more of them, and the competition is greater. Jordan is no Shaq, but he will always be regarded as the best, if not one of the best, because of his skill, not his size.
b) I think it would be good if we had both really big Asian athletes along with guys like Ichiro, just for the sake of diversity. Even though Ichiro is great, I think that on a social level, it would be good not to be pigeonholed into certain types. I do think kids are getting bigger these days, so maybe there will be more and more prospects in the future.
c) I like Dizzle’s phrase “men with no modifiers.”
“I think it would be good if we had both really big Asian athletes along with guys like Ichiro, just for the sake of diversity. Even though Ichiro is great, I think that on a social level, it would be good not to be pigeonholed into certain types.”
Size isn’t always everything….if you have speed, it certainly helps if you’re small. Look at guys like Spud Webb or Mugsy Bogues. Or the shortest baseball guy I can remember is Freddy Patek of the KC Royals, who was 5’5″ at the most, playing short stop.
But yeah,–it’d be nice to see a mix do well. From Ichiro to big guys like Ed Wang. Michael Chang wasn’t big but he was fast and that kept him in the game, returning balls that his opponent didn’t think he’d get to. Unfortunately, Michael came up in an era where his competition were big guys like Sampras and Jim Courier. Even Agassi wasn’t THAT tall, maybe 5’11. But height does give you an advantage in tennis, especially when it comes to serves.
I hope the younger generation can excel at athletics and more are able to take it to the pro levels. And definitely, “men with no modifiers.”
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Great topic! This is Only Won – The Lyrical Engineer…aka: The Cantonese Boy. I’m fan of Ed Wang and Dat Nguyen and Yao Ming. Why? Cuz I shot hoops with Yao in Shanghai when he was 17 and saw greatness and I was the HS Quarterback with hopes of being the first Chinese in the NFL. Didn’t pan out for me, but I tried. Gonna be routin’ for Jeremy Lin too. Hope he makes it. Let’s go turn this world around and make a difference. Asian peeps, let’s step up!