IR on NPR

The 4-1-1 on I-R on N-P-R.  Man, these acronyms and short cuts are all over the place.

One of you (not sure if it was meant to be anonymous or not) sent me this article and podcast on NPR.  NPR covered our favorite topic just a few days ago.  Because I and everyone else on this site are experts on the phenomenon, the NPR article didn’t say anything that we already didn’t know.  It also didn’t mention the general idea of what we know–this IR (interracial relationships) issue is like a bone in the throat for us, and Asian America is stuck in cultural purgatory around this issue.  However, as always, articles like this confirm and build on what we already know–IR is somewhat on the decline for Asian Americans, and people are starting to think more about family, etc, according to the news media.  As people trying to educate and elucidate, we need to hear the issue from different angles.

So two observations and one conclusion:

Observation: I’ve just begun to notice  how the media pooh-poohs Asian men.  It’s like they don’t want to give us what URB4N might call “the bitter medicine.” They dance around the issue, trying to front like there’s no problem when everyone, including the people they interview, know that something is amiss.

Example 1: the Tierney article. The article is entitled, “Single Female Seeking Same-Race Male,” and that’s true–for black women, white women, and Hispanic women. For Asian women, however, if you read the article closely, Asian men are at a disadvantage. According to the stats, a white man only needs to make $24k less than average to be viewed as equally attractive by Asian women. That doesn’t sound like “Single female seeking same-race male” to me!  So why not highlight this difference?

Example 2: The NPR article above. If you listen at around 5 minutes into the podcast, Angela DeClaro says, “I’ve never dated a Filipino guy ever, nor have I really been attracted to one.” If you look at the text of the article, however, the last part of that sentence somehow got omitted. What happened to it?  Was it not relevant?  Was the height factor somehow more relevant?  I would think that the fact that she’s not attracted to Filipino men would be more relevant than her height.  She probably thinks so too, otherwise she would’ve mentioned the height factor first.

I’ve noticed this before, but recently it’s become abundantly clear.  I’m curious as to why the media does this.  Is it to keep Asian men from getting angry?  Is it to prevent Asian women from being accused of selling out and loving the White man?  Is it because the media is worried that WE Asian men AND Asian women will accuse THE MEDIA of racism if they tell the truth of our condition?  It’s clear that often the numbers and the interviewees tell a different story from what is reported.  So why the discrepancy?

Observation #2: Actually, this is Mama Nabi’s observationOften the IR divide comes from power, possibly nothing more.  That is, the groups with more power, become the models of what someone is supposed to date.  If Asian men (or some Asian women, as we’re hearing on the Female IR podcast thread) are left out, the answer is empowerment, probably in the cultural sphere, as that seems to be where we are lacking.  More on this later.

So here’s my conclusion:

First, what has been said about the topic has been said.  Frank Chin started this discussion 35 years ago, and he covered it well.  As it stands with bigWOWO, we have a bi-gender podcast, a woman’s podcast, and a male podcast.  We’ve got excellent blog discussions on the topic. We should continue to discuss it because it helps us individuals to understand it and because it helps us to reach others who don’t have that background, but at the same time, we need to realize that what we will say has probably already been said.  We’re not going to create much original content in describing the status quo.

That brings me to the second part of my conclusion–I think we need to do something about this. Most of us want things to be good, so why not fix it?  There may be–well, there WILL be–a lot more to discuss about this issue if we take steps to fix it.  I actually have ideas, and if others are willing to get out and do something, maybe we can talk.  As with much of my other work, I think the solution needs to take place within an institutional setting.  In other words, we need to build an institution to create the change.

What do you all think?  If you’d like to join me in this, sign up and sound off below.  (Hint–this is going to take work well beyond what a website can offer, so if you want to do something about it, prepare to get your hands dirty…)  Let’s build the institutions.  We learn by doing.  I think we’ll learn it better than anyone else if we do.

86 thoughts on “IR on NPR

  1. Okay, actually, before people think I’m misreading the future, I don’t expect tons of people to sign up to do something about this. But even if we don’t, we can have good conversation about how to do it. I think the conversation itself would make a beautiful podcast, complete with projections of how the world could be.

  2. Thanks for the post. Through my own observations, I’ve shouted from the rooftops that Asian men are the last place winners on the dating totem pole (whereas Asian women are near the top) for years. Unfortunately no statistical data existed to support my seemingly manic rants. Until now. Yahoo! posted an article by Arnold Chao (http://dating.personals.yahoo.com/singles/relationships/24298/dating-101-dealing-with-the-race-factor) statistically addressing this issue.

    It is a topic that has bothered me for quite some time. I try to discuss this with my friends who, are mostly Caucasian, seem to think that there aren’t any ethnic disadvantages in dating. In fact, they believe that being Asian is an advantage – it’s “exotic”. They always poo-poo me, in so many words, as playing the race card and peg me as a paranoid lunatic. This happens partly because they’re well-meaning people that actually don’t see ethnicity as a factor for dating and are ignorant because they don’t run into the same roadblocks we do.

    So, thank you guys, and Arnold Chao, vindicating me and for wanting to openly discuss this issue. I would be more than happy to listen to any podcast that furthers this discussion as well as being an active participant. We need to understand the problems and views of the Asian female. At the very least please allow me to shout from the rooftops to people that understand my frustration.

    Peace Out

  3. Good finds, URB4N.

    Dizzle,

    Thanks for coming, and thanks for speaking out. If you have a moment, check out our three IR podcasts which are all linked in our Female IR podcast.

    I’ve got your e-mail address, so I’ll try to shoot you a message if/when we do another podcast.

  4. AHH JAEHWAN! you really are a man of action, repping Alpha Asian Males to the fullest. This is why i really LOOOVE Hot, Asian males, with their raven black hair, beautiful dark eyes, not to mention their sexy golden skin, the colour of the warming rays of the sun. I really understand why “white” media denigrates Asian males,Asian Males are just too big a THREAT…..lol.

    I want in on this “institution building” that you speak of. I sincerely hope it involves gathering at a secret underground location to discuss our master plan of domination….I am already thinking in terms of phases…phase 1 would be, phase 2 would be etc…..

    Seriously though, you have my email address so let me know what i can do. If it involves media production or visual design stuff, or finding academic papers on psychological side of racism/discrimination I can definitely help.

  5. God bless Bryon; he never stops trying, does he? Haha.

    Interesting note: Western media has a habit of posting interesting stories about sexuality. Before, CNN.com posted a story about a cafe in Japan that catered to women with white western waiters because they were more “charming.”

    Today, they posted a story about “herbivore” men in Japan.

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/06/05/japan.herbivore.men/index.html

    By tonight, the story is one of the most popular stories on the site.

    Why is that?

    This is why I laugh when Asian women refuse to believe that Western media and men have it out for Asian men. They refuse to believe that there is an organized effort to stomp and emasculate Asian men.

    I countered with this argument:

    “Look, I really hate ants in my house. I’m sure you agree. When I see some ants, I’ll stomp on them. I think you would do the same but wait; that’s impossible. The reason why it’s impossible is because we don’t get together every Wednesday night for a weekly ‘Death to Ants’ meeting.”

    My point is that every group can and will have a similar reaction to a another group. In this case, people identify with the people of their own racial group and will instinctively seek to make their own superior to others either by promoting themselves or undermining others.

    White people will seek to promote emasculating images of Asian men. White people will seek to promote news where the criminal is a black male.

  6. This isn’t the first online dating study produced that shows Asian men are at the bottom of the proverbial totem pole. There’s an infamous [in these circles] study which measured race against other factors and concluded that Asian men needed to make $24k extra to be viewed as equal to white men in the eyes of Asian women, and something like $250k extra to be viewed as equal to white men in the eyes of white women. After a certain level of income (I think ~$60k), no amount of extra income could make Asian men equal to white men in the eyes of white women.

    Dizzle, my experience trying to explain this to my white friends was slightly different. At first I kept it to myself — mainly because I suspected it was true but didn’t want to believe it. Once I saw that the data confirmed my personal observations I decided that keeping my knowledge to myself wasn’t going to help anybody or anything. My white friends usually believe me, mainly because they’re able to notice the same trends, and also because I don’t shout from the rooftops as much as I discreetly choose when to have the conversation.

    If I do encountered poo-pooism or skepticism, I tell them this: You’re at a bar trying to pick up a girl. Your competition is a white guy, a black guy, a Latino guy, and an Asian guy. Don’t think about it, just observe your gut instinct — do you regard your competition equally?

  7. Jaehwan, let me know if you do decide to do another podcast. I’d be interested in contributing, if you’re interested in letting me contribute 🙂

  8. Awesome!!

    So we have Anna, Etain, Dizzle, possibly Urb4n, and I’m volunteering Eva and Vu. Cool! I’ve got some foundational planning for the next Thymos event (which I’ll discuss in another blog post…Anna, you might find this interesting), but after that, let’s do it! Woohoo!

    Urb4n,

    That is a really, really disturbing article. Man oh man oh man. There definitely is a target on our backs!

  9. Etain,

    Note: This is not meant to be argumentative.

    Yeah, sure, I know that there are better approaches to get my point across than to “shout them from the rooftops”. I used this expression to show how strongly I felt about this topic and the frustration that ensues when I discuss it with my friends. No arguments took place. I do my best to not shove the topic in their face because it may led to suffocation of any empathy they may feel for our plight.

    The story posted by uRB4N (thanks) is a great example of why we are viewed as the bottom rung of the dating ladder. Where are the stories that feature the likes of John Cho, Lyoto Machida, James Kyson Lee, Daniel Henney, Ichiro, Daniel Dae Kim, Yao Ming. Don’t these brothas deserve cover stories of how they shatter the Asian male stereotype? Of course they do but it’s more entertaining to indulge on the Asian stereotype for some easy below the belt stories.

    Emasculate this CNN. Dat Nguyen was born in a refugee camp, came to America with his parents, played football for the Texas A&M, was All-American, won the Bednarik Award as well as the Lombardi Award, set records for tackles, was drafted by the Cowboys, started at inside LB despite being “undersized”, retired, and is now an assistant linebackers and defensive quality control coach for the Cowboys.

    You don’t get much more manly than that.

  10. By the by, is there anything we can do about Kim Jong-Il and North Korea. Talk about bad press.

  11. Dizzle, totally understand about shouting from the rooftops. I wasn’t trying to criticize your doing it; in fact I laud you for doing so. Often I wish I had the courage to do the same and we certainly need people like you to spread awareness. I was merely explaining that what I do is different and that that might explain why the fewer people I’ve talked to about the issue tended to be receptive.

  12. Etain,

    I didn’t take it as criticism. So no worries, mate.

    Often times I use a hammer to open a lock instead of a key. There are moments when I am more Caveman than I’d like to admit. This has served me well in certain situations in the past. But when it comes to friends it’s best for me to be more evolved otherwise I’d lose them.

  13. hahaha yeah i saw that article,i’m not suprised uRB4N, CNN always spouts loads of B.S anyway….lol

  14. I think we need to do something about this

    Hello Jaehwan. I used to participate on the F44s in the past but lately I’ve noticed that the forum has become defunct. It is heartening to see, however, a new wave of blogs, such as yours, that keep the flame alive.

    I think there are at least two schools of thought on this matter by now. There are those, like uRB4N, who believe that Asian women will never “get it” and that Asian men should focus on empowering themselves and start IR dating aggressively to help close the IR disparity. If you can’t beat ’em, join ’em, so to speak. And then there are others, such as yourself, who believe that we need to have dialogue between Asian women and men, raise awareness of the issues, and foster a better understanding without the finger-pointing, and build the Asian-American community.

    This is the rough dichotomy I see shaping up at this stage of the debate.

    Before I go further, I must mention that on the personal level of individual decisions that are made in regards to this matter, we should respect the freedom of the individual and the personal choices they have made.

    However,

    On a macro-level the IR disparity continues to be something that is worthy of intense scrutiny in the spirit of free inquiry. It is an issue that has deeply affected us and will continue to do so, whether we like it or not.

    I agree with uRB4N’s observation that Asian men need to be more forthcoming and open about the matter. To many of us have been browbeaten and cowed to the point where we can’t even speak freely about it in real life, even amongst each other. This is a consequence of the fact that we live in a rigidly politically-correct society. We are automatically written-off as losers, bitter, intolerant, sexist, and racist. No. We need to be able to frankly discuss that which affects us deeply to the core of our very being as free men. The IR issue needs to cease being the 800 pound gorilla in the room.

    I believe that this is a Darwinian struggle. The IR disparity is an environmental challenge. We need to evolve rapidly and adapt to the environment. Charles Darwin said: It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.

    What does it mean for Asian men to evolve and adapt?

    Firstly, we need to take ownership and responsibility over our own fate and stop the victimology game. It is too easy to blame external factors such as the media or to blame Asian women. Asian women are only acting in their best self-interest. They are concerned only because they have to face us within the community and because of their own internal contradictions. Discussing IR issues with Asian women, in my vast experience, is tiring and discouraging. It is like a land animal trying to explain to a fish why drowning is bad; they just don’t “get it”. Aggravating this communication gap is the fact that their primary concern is sexism, while ours is racism, auto-racism, and reverse-sexism. We come from orthogonally opposed ends. At any rate, the realities of Asian men and women’s experience in America has sufficiently diverged to the point where inter-gender dialogue is only of limited utility.

    My own views are informed by the basic premise that the IR disparity is fundamentally a power struggle between gender. Dating and marriage is not a market that is governed by legal code nor natural moral law. To date or not to date Asian is not a question of “right or wrong”. As such, in the absence of human or natural law in human affairs, there is only “Might makes Right”. As uRB4N points out in the podcast, Asian women have vastly out-leveraged us. They intuitively realize their privileged status within the auspices of politically-correct America; our side of the debate is a one-way hash argument. We would do better to concentrate on how to make the best of the rather shitty hand that we’re dealt by focusing on factors that are within our own domain:

    1. We need to acknowledge and come to terms with the fact that much of reason for the Disparity rest within ourselves and our Asian-American community. To many Asian men, for whatever reason, are not inclined towards interracial dating and remain loyal to Asian women. We need to explore that further. Also, our families and parents can also be big hindrances to Asian male IR.

    2. There will Asian males who are pro-IR and con-IR. It is something that we should also think about in accordance with our personal life circumstances and decide which side of the fence we will sit on. Those who are pro-IR should respect those who are con and vice versa. This is not a cause for more friction; in fact we need both types of Asian men. The fact of the matter is, uRB4N is right in that we should out-date more because the dating/marriage marketplace is a zero-sum game. Simply by the Law of Conservation, given the Disparity, Asian men as a group HAVE to out-date unless many of us wish to remain single (which I am assuming is not the case).

    3. Within the ranks of those who are pro-IR, we really need to reevaluate ourselves even further. To many are fixated on White women. Now, there’s nothing wrong with White women. But I think we really need to broaden our minds, do some soul searching, and take inventory of our conceptions about race and women. An open secret in these IR debates is that if Asian men and Black women are in the same boat, why don’t Asian men and Black women seek out each other more?

  15. What is the projected image of beauty?? of masculinity?? what kind of ken and barbie world should there be??

    Should there be children as a result of these unions? examples like Mariah Carey? or Halle Berry? Jesus is half God and half human, but you talk to the average “christian” he IS God. Is that fair to Mary? b4 Jesus it was Hercules, b4 Hercules it was Appollo.

    “oh the babies we will have together will be beautiful”. oooo. Many of these babies are becoming porn stars.

    When will the Americans accept Obama as a white man? Obama is just another white president, just accept it. NO, he isnt black, he is WHITE, dont you see?? Barry Obama is white.

    you see black guys dating indian girls, you notice this right?
    Blacks were bred to be stronger slaves over centuries, did people do that for the Jews in their 6000 years of slavery?

    10 years back, the ratio of asian girls to asian guys was 2 to 1.
    we had a few girls to spare, right?
    but thinking like that; we imported exported asian girls all over the world.
    or maybe invite people to fck our women? like Carradine in Thailand,

    I knew a kid that had an asian dad and black mom, ( rare ) he was an asshole. His story was exactly like rumble in the bronx. I call him Frank. like N Stein.

    the stereotype here is small balls nd big pockets. that is the problem.

    Asian guys should pick a girl of any color and recycle them, rebuild them like a race car.
    Date them, Do them, Date them again, publicly; take the white trash and rice them up.

    I like them brunettes, the ones leaning a bit toward Gothic.

    Maybe Jon should have been a wife beater to balance things out.

  16. Hey Kobe,

    I’m not trying to hate but, damn, what the hell are you talkin’ about? I believe I missed your point entirely. Maybe I’m slow but I haven’t a clue as what your point might be.

    Seriously mate, what are you trying to convey?

    To all:

    Please tell me there will be some podcast addressing this issue. What be even better is if a documentary encompassing the problems/realities that contribute to this complicated issue were made and aired at an Asian American film festival. We as a community would be best served if the film weren’t slanted (pun unintended…kinda) from either view (male or female). The goal is not to preach any sort of ideal. But rather, to generate some thought and maybe some long term discussion between the viewers and their circle of friends/family. We want to understand the issues and illuminate it for the entire community.

    If one already exists then we should ignore the above paragraph but wonder why we haven’t seen it yet. Does such a thing exist?

  17. sorry i had a red bull for lunch.
    i wanna date girls of any color,
    for all the right and wrong reasons.
    i am also willing to upgrade the chick.

    black girls, indian guys, asian guys
    become so absorbed in the complaining stage.
    they forget to look in the mirror.
    get fit at least and expect rejection.

    selling for dummies? dating for dummies? idiot’s guide to being sexy?

    i agree a lot with urb4n, but he is a member of a minor group of people
    with a developed skill of hustle in a commission field.

    lets clone dat nguyen, make him a terminator.

    half breeds suck because they are so lost in identity,

    please prove me wrong.

  18. It’s pass pass swig! Don’t F-up the rotation!

    Hey fellas,

    riddle me this: why isn’t there more diversity in Hollywood movies and t.v.? Specifically, where are our Asian bruthas and sistahs?

  19. [i]riddle me this: why isn’t there more diversity in Hollywood movies and t.v.? Specifically, where are our Asian bruthas and sistahs? [/i]

    dizzle,

    just check out the discussions about “Steroetypes and Film” thread, if you haven’t already.

  20. kobukson, you stated that

    “I believe that this is a Darwinian struggle. The IR disparity is an environmental challenge. We need to evolve rapidly and adapt to the environment. Charles Darwin said: It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.

    What does it mean for Asian men to evolve and adapt?”

    Yes i agree with you, but what the problem is its adapting into a caucasian/western culture that denigrates

    asian men(as sexually unattractive) and
    asian women(as whores)

    which has evolved after centuries of caucasian-european colonisation, imperialism and subjugation of Asia/Asians (in order to control their colonial subjects…eg vietnam, india, china, phillipines)

    Now this same ideaology is transferred over to Asians born in the Caucasian dominated countries.

    If you try to adapt to this culture, you will lose simply for being Asian, you already lost by playing the game, cause the rules of the game are rigged. The only way you can get out of it is to not play the game at all.

    if Asians really want to reverse the situation, we need to repeat history and colonise Europe, take over european countries and introduce the colonial mentality among Caucasian culture. Only THAT would make it equal!! LOL

  21. How are these issues outside of the US? 90 percent of the girls i know have non asian bf. is it a trend? are they so naive or done out of spite?? I go out and talk to every girl to see the comfort level.

    But even on tv they mention stuff like girls knowing instantly who they want to sex with by going on the first date anyway. Asian people have this psuedo mind reading thing, too many assumptions and hinting or waiting.

    no one can do it, why try?

    asian people need to be paired off in a class and forced to live with a doll like home eco. then discuss.

  22. Pingback: Amy Chua: Chinese Conceit, Chinese Ignorance, and the $24,000 question | bigWOWO

  23. @King
    Lol, I hope she’s the real one.
    And she better stay around, because I have a lot of things to say to her.
    (Lol, Amy Tan is a bigger issue for me than hard-ass parents)

  24. Amy,

    You should know IR. There’s enough of it in your books since you’ve practically relegated us Asian men to stereotypes.

    (Maybe the real Amy will see this.)

  25. OMG it’s Amy Tan!!!!!1 Could please sign my copy of Joy Luck Club?!?? It’s like a dream come true!!! *squeals*

  26. I’m an Asian female with preference to dating Asian men. I only say this upfront so while reading my comment, men wouldn’t subconsciously think I’m a race traitor, blah blah blah.

    I think if Asian men want to climb up the proverbial totem pole then you MUST work out. Most of you Asian men look and act weak and feeble. Do not blame your diet, your genes or your environment. Have you seen those Korean actors? They have that lean muscular bodies that Asian women desire. And they’re Asians who eat rice and vegetables and grew up in Asian country. Why do you think black guys are near the top of the totem pole when their counterparts are at the bottom? Because black guys look strong and tough. Not only should you work out to look masculine but some Asian men really should concentrate on personal hygiene and fashion sense. There are many Asian magazines and K-dramas out there for you to see what Asian women want. (Remember the reason for the popularity of Korean dramas amongst Asian women is due to the popularity of Korean actors.)

    From reading your (Asian men) comments above, I think most of you are missing the point. I want my counterpart to be the dominant, desirable race so you would stop embarrassing both the men and women by asking “why white women don’t want to date us?” My God, who was the fool to come up with that video? Keep feeding the public that you guys are fools, good going boys. I digress. Asian men have the intelligence and a higher chance of wealth than other races in America. But why do you find yourself at the bottom? Yes, I can see that the media tries to brainwash all women that Asian men are not masculine enough. Why are you confirming that image? Build those muscles, build those muscles! Once you feel and look masculine then you will start acting manly without any problems. (from AW definition of manly isn’t that aggressive, cocky attitude of white men) Just watch Korean dramas and see how they act. They can be masculine and tough at the same time being sensitive and caring. That is what Asian women want!!!

    I didn’t realize the soft power of American media and its effect on “brainwashing” the population until I woke up. Then I saw it all around me. Starting with the sixteen candles; William Huang; white guys playing the lead role and giving orders while “minorities” playing the supporting role and taking orders; Asian women paired up with white guys, etc. After I saw what was going on, I have boycotted all American media or at least trying to.

    Another thing is women want powerful men. With Asian-Americans, you can achieve that if Asian countries become the global leaders like how East Asian countries are achieving these days. More Asian companies build HQ in America and hire Americans and becoming their bosses will give you that power. Unless you’re one of those delusional day dreamers that think you will make it in white corporations. More power to you. I don’t like the way AA are exploited in American corporations. Just the mere fact that it’s the AA that produce more patents in America but the media won’t mention this fact. But this is another topic.

    This comment is getting longer than I intended so I will stop here. I’m giving you my opinion but from discussing this with my fellow group, it seems my opinion is the main stream. I’m rooting for you my fellow Asian men!

  27. How old are you Chris? This is just my humble opinion but your whole paragraph about muscles and Korean actors sounds really, really dumb. Hence, I’m guessing you must be on the young side or maybe a 0.5/1st generation Asian American (based on all that Confuscious drivel you laid out in the other thread).

    And please do respond to Leon’s response to your post in the other thread before you come off sounding any dumber. BTW, I don’t think you’re a race traitor. I just think you’re someone whose value system aligns with typical, superficial, shallow, mainstream horse manure ideas of beauty and worth.

    Where is it that you come from where “most Asian men look and act weak and feeble”? And even if that is remotely true where you come from, are you smart enough to explore why that is and understand the long term cyclic effects of decades and decades of emasculation of the average Asian American man?

  28. Wow. Kinda sad when an Asian women have to declare “I’m an Asian female with preference to dating Asian men.”

  29. Mt: Are you Asian or white? If you’re a white guy, obviously you’re ranting whenever you see/hear Asian women claim they date Asian men. If you’re Asian, then you need to get off your high horse. Why are you complaining why Asian women don’t want to date you or any women for that matter? I’m answering that question. Who are you to judge whether my answer is dumb or not? Truth hurts, right? Yes, it is sad that I had to declare I prefer dating Asian men because guys like yourself can’t handle the truth but complain complain complain all the time. I’m trying to help you out, dude. I get this feeling you’re a creepy white dude with serious Asian fetish that has interest in everything all Asian.

    How old are you and what education level have you attained? If you don’t catch my drift then obviously you have no clue what women want. I’m telling you what women want and obviously feeble body that majority of Asian men possess isn’t it. You even admit it yourself. Yet, when I try to give you an honest answer, you start with name calling. Real mature. If you don’t like the truth then stop complaining!!! Posting blogs and videos of why you’re not wanted is embarrassing enough for Asian race. If you’re too lazy or too dumb to do something about it then don’t, but stop the complaining. If you don’t think looking feminine/feeble is the reason why you’re at the bottom of the pole, then what do YOU think it is? Make sure you answer that.

  30. I am going out on a limb here. This post by Chris reads like one written by a white person. Or maybe as suggested, you are just young in which case excuse my caustic response.

    “… feeble body that majority of Asian men possess … looking feminine/feeble is the reason …”

    Umm you will have to think harder. I will give you that my grandpa probably was in better shape in my age than me (perhaps … well at least in endurance) being a rice farmer that he was tilling the land with his buffalo and all. But thats not the point.

    What I do know is that I do not see a lot of Schwarzeneggers dating AF. I, in fact, have seen a lot of slobs dating AF. So, I think I answered you though it was directed at MT.

    Think harder why you do not see a lot of AF/BM couple if you go by media portrayals of muscular BM (or your logic). I have seen a lot of BMs that are slobs and wouldn’t actually make it to the NBA contrary to the media. Imagine that. Your turn to explain the very skewed IR dating pattern.

  31. Wow?!!! LOL!!!. Where to even start? This would be too ridiculously sad if this Chris wasn’t some troll.

    Yet, when I try to give you an honest answer, you start with name calling.

    First of all, calling your ill logic and pompous, backhanded, patronizing piece of poorly written and thought out drivel dumb is not name calling. It’s called giving you feedback on specifically what you said. Your words are dumb if that makes you feel any better. So let me get this straight. You are telling me I could be anyone from a “creepy white dude with a fetish” to “a scrawny, undereducated, Asian guy who looks feeble and weak”. Just throwing shit on the wall until it sticks eh?

    Question – Am I PERSONALLY at the bottom of the “pole” or are you using the royal YOU? Why would you come on here to say most of ‘us’ Asian men look and act weak and feeble? I’m just trying to figure out what your issue is? Do you date Korean pop stars/movie actors on the regular yo? Would you rate yourself at least an 8 out of 10. If you don’t, you should really shut your superficial hole up. Oh and btw, even if you were an 8 or higher, you should still shut the fuck up, because what you say makes you sound really shallow and frankly on the dumb side.

    You seem to have an axe to grind. You seem to have dishonest intentions (or at least warped ones), and your reading comprehension is pretty poor too. (And by the way do you speak for all Asian women? – I fucking hope not because you sound real dumb.) But beyond that you just like to imagine things and put imaginary words in other people’s mouths dont you.

    Wow, anyway, you’re way too funny in the sad, self clowning way. Good luck in life you dumb bitch. Now see, that’s name calling.

    @everyone else. Guys and gals, I’m really sorry. I’m just having way too much fun exposing dummies.

  32. I told you to answer my question, didn’t I? What makes YOU think Asian women or any women from wanting to date Asian men? Answer that and we’ll go from there. If being called feeble bothers you then why won’t you work out. Who gives a sh!t if your grandpa was strong? Dumb asshole.

  33. @Chris,
    What if I show you one picture of a slob dating an AF? This will nullify your logic. So, again your turn to explain the IR dating disparity.

    Calling me “dumb asshole” won’t make your flawed logic better. A statement has to stand on its own. A counter example nullifies your statement. The more you write the more immature you sound.

    Since you proclaimed you have a preference for dating Asian men, why don’t you list the reasons. I have never dated an Asian men, never will. So you are in a better position to answer why AF like yourself likes to date AM.

  34. @Chris,

    Sorry meant to write “IR dating gender AND race disparity” instead of just gender disparity.

  35. Until you answer my question, you need to relax. So you’re an Asian female? You indicated you’ve never dated Asian men. It’s nice to know so I know who I’m conversing with but with name like John Doe….Why hide behind a psuedo name?

  36. @Chris,
    Your question was directed at mT. However, I did answer you, and proved you wrong.
    Do I need to go over the proof more slowly?

    All you have contributed so far is calling me a “dumb asshole”. So, its actually your turn to answer my questions.

  37. I bet you’re an creepy, beer gut, balding Asiaphile pedophile white dude that is hating on Asian women who dates Asian men, aren’t you? Your only response to my question was a fat slob dating AF. Are you that fat, disgusting slob? Should I repeat my question to you slowly? Sit your repugnant white ass down and answer my question, creep.

  38. ‘This comment is getting longer than I intended so I will stop here. I’m giving you my opinion but from discussing this with my fellow group, it seems my opinion is the main stream. I’m rooting for you my fellow Asian men!’

    sounds like the childish azn of reason troll is back under the guise of ‘chris’. but no, jae will always insist on ‘unity’.

    fucking YT zionist college trolls. rot in hell.

  39. Chris,

    I don’t know, man. When I read your writing, you write like a dude. I’m not going to accuse you of trying to be someone that you’re not, but I’m not feeling the female vibe. Sorry if you really are female, but that’s how I’m reading you.

    Your advice–above all other pieces of advice you could have given–is to work out. That’s it? Really? That, in my opinion, is way off, regardless of which age demographic you’re speaking to. Again I apologize if you really are an Asian female, but your advice reminded me of the time David Duke wrote a martial arts book for African American militants–while he was in the Ku Klux Klan. “Let’s just throw this ball and see whether the stupid minorities fetch!”

    Truth is, most Asian women dating White guys are with super thin White guys. Most Asian women dating Asian guys are with super thin Asian guys. And very few Asian women are with black guys, despite the fact that there are lots of black guys who work out with weights. Few Asian women in this country care at all about Korean guys in the Korean media. They just don’t. And it totally makes sense that they don’t–why would Asian American women be idolizing guys who don’t even speak their language?

    So I’m not seeing it or feeling it. Sorry. If there are women here who think I’m wrong, they can step up and support you. Otherwise, not feeling it.

  40. Again, not trying to start a fight, Chris. But please do realize that there are people here who are trying to come up with solutions to a pretty formidable social problem.

  41. I don’t understand the anger and frustration coming out of you guys. Hey, I’m not the one writing blogs about why Asian guys are at the bottom of the pole? Obviously, for guys like yourselves there are reasons. Check out this video. After I wiped the drool off of my comp, I’m posting lean muscular bodies that Korean men possess. These guys don’t sit around like you dudes and trying to figure out why girls don’t go for them. Understand?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVaawegTWnM&feature=related

    And you’re wrong. Not only Asians girls are into men like them but also the Asian Americans. I don’t know where you live but in all metro areas, Korean pop stars are very well known. You wanted opinions and all you do is lash out. Pathetic. I only wanted to help because you idiots are making fools of yourselves whining about why girls won’t go for you. What you Asians do reflects on every other Asians. Grow up, and learn to accept the truth.

  42. Chris,

    You are a white dude trolling who claims:(1) to prefers Asian men but at the same time complain Asian men are less attractive than others such as BM.
    (2) solution to IR disparity is more meatheads

    You are confused at best, and too cognitively challenged to defend what you write.
    Enough said.

  43. Damn, you’re an idiot. I never mentioned BM were attractive. Just because I cited the pecking order of dating, now all of a sudden it became my opinion. Try again, creep.
    I think I know why these backlashes from you dudes. I mean after all you’re complaining you can’t find dates. I know your Asian types. Probably the shorter, uglier bunch that turns red with envy when you see hot Asian guys like the ones on the video. When an Asian girl tells you what you need to change, you know it’s a hopeless case so you lash out. BTW…I don’t date the average looking Asian men. The Asian guys I date are above average and that’s why I never had any problems with them complaining why they can’t fight dates. I tried to compare you losers with the Asian guys in my group and they take good care of themselves. That is the difference. Stop lashing out and go work out!

  44. Chris,

    “You wanted opinions and all you do is lash out. Pathetic. ”

    Well, yes, we want opinions. But we want opinions from real people, not people who have to lie about their race and gender.

    “I only wanted to help because you idiots are making fools of yourselves whining about why girls won’t go for you. What you Asians do reflects on every other Asians.”

    you Asians?” Okay, Chris. Right, you’re an Asian girl. C’mon, man. A dude like yourself should find better and healthier ways to spend his time than to do the whole David Duke “let’s play with the minorities” thing.

  45. Jaehwan, tell me more about yourself. Are you Chinese? Since you claim I’m not a real person (wonder how I passed CAPTCHA) then let’s see if you’re real. Jaehwan sound like either Chinese or Korean name. I don’t know many Filipinos or Japanese names that sound like that. Since you wrote this article, it’s nice to know the person behind it.

  46. @Chris

    You can just click on “About”. Bryan is fairly open in telling us who he is.

    And his avatar did tricked us, we all thought he was a talking soft toy puppy!

  47. @ N: LOL.

    This is true. B is deceptive. Here he points fingers at boys for being girls, girls for being boys, all the while he’s representing himself as a talking soft toy puppy!

    I wonder if I get mistaken for a boy. I could have easily hijacked all my profile pics from somewhere. B, why haven’t you ever raised THAT possibility.

  48. Pingback: David Duke and Dukian Doppelgangers | bigWOWO

  49. Haha…thanks guys! The plush puppy threw everyone off, I know.

    N, I went to the herb store today. They sold out…but they said they had it! The woman said to come back in ten days. So we’ll see. I’ll keep you updated.

    In the meantime I’ve lost interest in the troll. He did, however, help me to update my blog policy. AND share a little history lesson:

    http://www.bigwowo.com/2011/01/david-duke-and-dukian-doppelgangers/

  50. @Chris

    I’m actually happy to assume that you’re an Asian girl. As an Asian guy who knows way much about Japanese and Korean (not as much) boyfriend, I’m happy to discuss the deliberate diversity in boy bands and the fact that the fan girls that loves the K-Drama actors you listed are generally 35+ and married.

  51. I can see why you guys want to believe I’m a male. You must be one of those shorter, uglier Asians that has insecurity issues. I know so many of your type. I bet you get teased by mostly whites but too afraid to fight back so you suffer in silence and create blogs to vent your frustration there. I’m actually glad that you create blogs like this to let others know how white MSM treats minorities, especially the quiet Asians. Frankly, I thought it was long overdue.

    Only problem with guys like yourself is that you complain and complain some more but if the action involves something that you don’t have control over, you dismiss it with anger, name callings and ridicule. I know not all Asian guys were born with bodies that girls will sway over. That was not my point. Even the fact that you’re shorter than most average girls, skinner than most average girls (I won’t mention face) than you should IMPROVE the problems. It boggles my mind why you refuse to believe that Asian guys are ridiculed for their feeble bodies. White guys never mess with black guys because they’re stronger than them. That’s why white guys love messing with Asian guys. And sadly, you let them. Hiding behind blogs and such might let others be aware but we all know Asian men are aware. Just too afraid to stand up to white men. Like I mentioned b4, women are attracted to the strong and powerful men. Your skinny, weak bodies isn’t going to help with that image.
    Go work out. Short guys actually look taller when their bodies are buffed.

  52. I’m not here to discuss the popularity or diversity of Japanese and Korean boy bands. I’m here to help you. When I see how you Asians, yes YOU ASIANS, get ridiculed by so many different people, yet you cower to them, it’s both sad and pathetic. I wrote you Asians, because like I said before, you’re a different breed than the Korean singers on the video or guys like them. Guys like that don’t get ridiculed. However, I KNOW guys who mope around wondering why girls don’t go for them, do. When an Asian girl like myself who actually care about the humiliation you Asians must endure, it’s sickening. I saw that more often in the west coast. The demographics in the NW Pacific region is comprised of Southern Chinese and Filipinos.

    Hey, I was actually trying to be nice at first, but it’s your loss. Good luck fighting the injustice of the dating world. From your reaction to my comments, you need it.

  53. Hey Jaehwan, Nice site you have, its very informative. One thing you wrote that interests me is the “you write like a guy” which you said to “Chris”. Is there a special way to differentiate between a women vs men writing style? Because even though everyone in this post is haterading on “Chris” (hey dont drink the haterade, drink the bubble tea) as a white male, actually Ive met many asian females who spoke exactly
    EXACTLY (right down to the ugly short asians phrase) like chris….which leads me to believe that Chris really is a asian female.

    The seperation between “hot” asians vs other asians, the bullying aspect of whites vs asians, the asian woman only saving herself for handsome asian men, vs everyday asian men, these patterns Ive experienced before in relationships with asian women (born in the west)

    I can even form a picture of her

    1-she grew up in U.S or some other white country with alot of whites
    2-Grew up with mostly white friends and mostly dated white guys
    3-there was racism at her school with minority asians being the betas in the situation
    4-she was probably a banana, but is now commingback to the right side of history thus seeks to “help” asian guys
    5-she differentiates from hot asians and other asians to protect her fragile sense of racial identity such as “ugly short asian guys” and “hot kpop stars” is actually what alot of insecure whitewashed asian women do to devalue the racism of the white people around them. As in, “well yeah some asians are short and ugly but not all of us are like that” kind of thinking.
    6-she is probably physically smokin hot and still in university

    How do I know? as I dated some of these types of women…. well they were goddamn hot, so in my hormonal years that was all it took……

  54. Hey Chris, come back dont go, i would love to listen to what you have to say-maybe you could talk more about you opinions on asian men, theres nothing more attractive than an asian women talking about asian men all day everyday……

  55. AzN,

    mT and I have been doing this a really long time, not just on this site but on the 44s beforehand. We can tell the difference and we see the subtleties. I don’t have time to go into the specifics (and I certainly don’t want to interrupt if you’re enjoying what you think “she” looks like), but it’s a guy.

  56. Chris:

    “I’m not here to discuss the popularity or diversity of Japanese and Korean boy bands. I’m here to help you. ”

    That’s because you’re a non-Asian dude who doesn’t know anything about boy bands. You talked about “Confuscianism” (your spelling, not the spelling of an Asian person) on the other thread because it was something you found on Wikipedia.

    Ask yourself one question: Why?

    “Hey, I was actually trying to be nice at first, but it’s your loss. Good luck fighting the injustice of the dating world. From your reaction to my comments, you need it.”

    Well obviously no one wants your advice. What’s a non-Asian guy have to teach anyone about AF/AM relationships? If you got your hand off your mouse, your other hand off your wanker, and your eyes off the porn sites you frequent, you’ll see there’s more to life than being a troll and doppelganging–which, as I mentioned, is no longer allowed.

  57. LOL. Damn, this thread is now getting interesting. Before I get hooked on this thread I will leave you losers with this:

    AlphaAzn, You got only one right. Figure out which one.

    I thought I mentioned many, many times I don’t date white guys. My friends are Asians, and like myself never “left” the right side of history. Name one place in white countries where there aren’t white people. Try it.

    Devaluing the racism and Asians being the beta? You forgot the operative word, MEN. It’s the Asian MEN that are the betas. I’ve never seen a short, feeble looking Asian men standing up to racism. IN PERSON. There were times where I couldn’t watch the degradation that short, feeble Asian men had to endure by white dudes that I had to stand up for you guys. Instead of appreciation, I received exactly the same backlash like on this thread.

    This blog isn’t about Asian women, now is it? It’s Asian men like yourself who pulls Asian women into your miserable state being to make yourself feel better. “Misery loves company”. One of the reasons why I brought on the analogy of ugly Asians vs attractive Asians is to explain why there is injustice in the dating world. Your “haterade” explained to me you guys are the ugly Asians. Nice going. Another thing, explain what white washed Asian women are because I’m more in tune with Asian culture and know very little about white culture. Or are you just pulling shit out of your ass?

  58. Take a hint. Nobody cares, man. Go to some other ethnic site and pretend to be a woman. Maybe if you practice long enough you’ll actually fool someone.

    “Damn, this thread is now getting interesting. Before I get hooked on this thread…”

    You got to play the troll. You got what you wanted. So peace out, and don’t let the door hit ya.

  59. Part of the reason why Asian guys even get the “Weak and enfeebled label” is because they are being judged based on an imposed Western standard. Based on the false Western worldview:

    Asians: Not nearly masculine enough
    Whites: PERFECT
    Blacks: Way too masculine

    Anyone can see how this tendency of Whites to see themselves as the perfect medium is purely self-serving. The scenario could also be rendered in this way:

    Asians: PERFECT
    Whites: Way too masculine
    Blacks: Insanely too masculine

    My point is that it all depends on who you consider to be the norm. Once you decide that then the rest of the world doesn’t fit your assumptions of perfections. OR you could stop comparing and come up with something like this:

    Asians: PERFECT for their own culture
    Whites: PERFECT for their own culture
    Blacks: PERFECT for their own culture

  60. @Chris

    I’m still happy to assume that you’re a girl.
    Lol, it is important to discuss boybands because you want to create what is considered as ‘desirable Asian men’ in Asia. Because generally, teenagers and college girls don’t lust after the type of examples you’ve given, they are much more likely to like pretty boy, girly-looking boy-bands like Shinee (sorry Shinee fans, I meant it in a good way!).
    Hideaki Takizawa is considered really hot (well, at least for a decade since he was 16 and my sis is still a massive fan girl) and he would be 5″4 at best with a very narrow frame and check out Koike Teppei too, he’s considered ‘desirable’ as well.

    And actually, most people commenting here are happiliy dating or in Bryan’s case, happy…and with 2 kids.

    I personally think Kaneshiro Takeshi is a God, but if we all need to resemble him to get a date, we are in a lot more trouble than we thought.

    @King

    I want to kiss you!
    But those girls will say that since we live the states, we have to accept all the white ideals, otherwise we are not assimilating to western culture!

  61. “Aha!! I accuse you now of being a GIRL!”

    Maybe N is suggesting King is a girl 🙂

  62. Hey Chris, nice of you to stay around,

    “Your “haterade” explained to me you guys are the ugly Asians. Nice going. ”

    Well cant speak for other posters here, but i can assure you that I as a Alpha Azn am definitely not ugly. Can you imagine if Kaneshiro+Yunho+Leehom+TOP had a massive orgy of love (were talking pure homolisciousness here) and then 9mths later they collectively gave birth to an angel? well that angel would be ME, only HOTTER. Only slightly shorter. And with a little bit of a beer belly. And a sprinkle of male pattern baldness…
    Okay, okay maybe Im not too good looking, but you know what Chris? Its not the equipment you have, its HOW YOU USE IT, and i can assure you that I am very experienced in that department….theres only one problem, which is what you said;

    “Another thing, explain what white washed Asian women are because I’m more in tune with Asian culture and know very little about white culture. Or are you just pulling shit out of your ass?”

    hhmm….if you know little about white culture what are you doing typing in english and talking about how asian guys need to go to the gym to compete? and then you state that you dont understand the term whitewashed? Chris, you know I like you and all, and I even gave you the benefit of the doubt when everyone else here was showering the haterade upon you but its starting to seem as though Jaehwan was right that you are actually not what you say………well on the bright side, I dont discriminate against white men pretending to be asian women, as in the dark, all holes feel almost the same….the only question I seek your answer on is are you PRE-OP? because Ive never been with a man, so Id prefer my first encounter to be with an post op man who became a women, just so i can ease into the whole homoliscious thing and all………

  63. @King: Well his exact words were “I know not all Asian guys were born with bodies that girls will sway over. That was not my point. Even the fact that you’re shorter than most average girls, skinner than most average girls (I won’t mention face) than you should IMPROVE the problems.”

    So we’re shorter and skinner too. I only wish that were true. But if it were, I’d be happy. Studies show that as a whole, even average people are overweight. If I were thinner, then I could say “perfect.” 🙂

    @AzN: Hahaha!

    @N: He may get back to you. It may take him for him to go on Wiki to research k-dramas in order to have something to say. I doubt it though. It’s too much work. But if he wants to do it, he can go knock himself out. And maybe it’s good for you to keep playing with him just to get him to educate himself. Who knows, maybe staring at those chiseled fit Asian men will open up new possibilities for him.

  64. @john

    ?? Am I missing the joke here?

    I thought both King and I made it very obvious that we are really, really hot girls!!

  65. Chris,

    Yawn.

    I posed the question, but I’m just going to bypass the question and get proactive with this. Sayonara to your last two posts. I’m not banning you. Come back with a different name and attitude if you want.

    Or even better–get a real hobby. You’ll be a lot happier for it, and who knows? Maybe someday you’ll even thank me. I’m being totally serious, and I’m trying to say this with love.

  66. You post blogs wondering why Asian male losers can’t find dates but when truth be told, YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH! Keep swimming in that pathetic cesspool or keep pulling shit out of your ass.

    Sayonara, Asian male weaklings!!!

  67. @N,
    \I thought both King and I made it very obvious that we are really, really hot girls!!\

    My bad. My bad. Being a beer guzzling, pot bellied, aging white, dumb asshole, idiot my reading comprehension has diminished. Now, I can go back to imagining what you hot gals look like.

  68. chris , chris, CHRIS!! come back baby, you were going to be my first homolove story!

    i miss him already……..

  69. Pingback: The Richer Sex by Liza Mundy (Review) | bigWOWO

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