Armchair
(pic from here)
Slanteyefortheroundeye has a good interview with the Secret Identities boys here. (He makes mention of our man Jimmy Aquino at the end). In the interview, SEFTRE asks Jeff Yang about inclusion of different minority groups and sexual orientations, and Jeff mentions a Racialicious post that attacked him on questions of diversity. If you read the comments in the Racialicious post, you can see Jeff try to defend himself only to have lots of angry people showing their fangs.
I don’t think Secret Identities was a perfect book. I recommend that people buy it, support it, and enjoy some of the better stories, but it definitely wasn’t perfect. Quite a few of the stories (sorry, guys) were cornier than corn syrup. But to attack Jeff with some insinuation that he held back certain minority groups strikes me as unfair, unhelpful, and impractical. Especially when the attack is over something that the book is trying to promote–diversity.
It’s good to diversify, but success must always take precedence over inclusion because like it or not, someone is going to be excluded. In activism and in life, you don’t have to do all things well; you just have to do one thing well. This may seem exclusionary, but it’s also smart and effective business. What I always suggest to people in Thymos is that it’s better to do one thing well than to do many things half well. It’s always been my way of doing things. If Korean Americans do something and are in the spotlight, more power to them, even if I’m not Korean. If Hmong people want a Hmong celebration, more power to them, even if I’m not Hmong. I’m not going to highjack the bus just because I’m not on it.
I’ve seen this happen before. Someone will try to create something, and another person will step in and try to overdiversify it to death. They’ll complain about one thing or another until they’ve managed to sink the project. Implications and accusations of racism and sexism often accompany these attempts to sink the boat. Often these attacks will come from people who don’t have experience of leading groups of people. It’ll be the theorists and opinionistas who attack leaders. They say, “Oh, you don’t have an LGBT perspective,” and when you get that, they’ll say, “What about people from the Mian tribe? What about women from the Mian tribe who prefer women, who come from a Buddhist background, and who use their right hand for writing but their left hand for brushing their teeth? If you don’t find people like this, you’re sexist, racist, classist, and ableist!” They’ll nitpick what people do until the cows come home.
My point is this–let’s succeed. Had Jeff edited a work that perpetuated racism, or pushed the same ol’ WM/AF storylines, or did something else egregiously bad, I’d say go ahead, let him have it. But to quibble over something as vast and undefinable as diversity makes zero sense. It’s petty. Yes, maybe it would’ve been nice to label SI as “An Asian American Superhero Anthology” rather than “The Asian American Superhero Anthology.” But they didn’t, and since it’s currently the only AA superhero anthology, the name is technically correct.
There are some political minefields that the editors of SI have to face now that the accusation is in cyberspace, and I think they all handle it well in their SEFTRE answer, but I’d like to voice my opinion: Let’s succeed where we can succeed. We don’t ever have to be all things to all people, nor can we. Let’s succeed where we can.
Edit 6/15/09: Here is another review from a female perspective. I thought this one was a bit more fair:
http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6642975.html?nid=2789
Related posts:
I’m awaiting moderation right now, but my post on that Racialicious blog was this:
“In my opinion, the only valid complaint in the article was when Sunny Kim questioned whether it should be The AA Superhero Anthology. Since it’s the only one, Jeff and company are technically correct, but the word “an” may have been a better choice for the reasons Sunny mentioned.
I thought the rest of Sunny’s complaints lacked merit. Regardless of what you write or produce, someone is going to be excluded. Anything that tries to be all things to all people will inevitably fail. While Sunny Kim is entitled to her own opinion, I didn’t feel that this criticism was helpful or constructive. Diversity is good, but universal inclusion shouldn’t be the be-all and end-all. Minorities need to succeed where they can.
“
I don’t mean to stereotype but how did I know it was going to be an Asian women detracting against a largely Asian male centric comic book?
I think Sunny’s point has a relation to another article posted on Racialicious about Michelle Obama. The gist of the article was about comments floating around about how attractive the First Lady was.
The National Organization of Women started making harsh comments about how despite Michelle Obama being a smart, charismatic, and generous woman; everyone solely commenting on her looks. The usual charges of sexism abound and how it’s a “reminder” of how society is ignoring a woman’s inner virtues and focusing on her physical appearance.
However, since NOW is solely run by white women, they don’t see how these comments can affect a different minority group in a certain way. This is the first time any black woman has public ally generated buzz as to how attractive she is. Maybe, it’s the white women who feel an attractiveness placed on a black woman will rob white women of their title of being viewed as the most attractive. To put it simply, black women are rarely viewed as attractive in mainstream society; let them have this one!
I feel it’s the same situation here. We have commentary about how this comic book mostly benefits East Asian men and we have an Asian woman tearing it down. Maybe it’s because that they have a problem that East Asian men are finally taking steps to make sure the focus is on them.
Sunny has her own game of “Oppression Olympics” going on here. Asian men have a very difficult time in mainstream media; much harder than Asian women but you have Sunny complaining about “what about us?!”
This is why I hold on the steadfast belief that Asian women are the last group of people who want Asian men to be viewed as sexually attractive. They’re looking to keep them in a box so they don’t wander elsewhere.
Wow, that’s probably the clearest explanaton that I’ve read on your take of the issues surrounding the debate about Secret Identities. Except for the last paragraph. Isn’t there some way for you to express the same thought without indicting ALL Asian women into the same group.
Don’t you mean to say that “SOME Asian women are among the last people who want Asian men to be viewed as sexually attractive?” Cetainly not all of them feel this way.
Agree with King, and agree that URB4N’s last post was pretty good…save maybe the last paragraph.
URB4N, isn’t King right? It’s not ALL Asian women, is it? If we say it’s ALL or we don’t modify it with the word “some,” we discount the awesome support we’ve had from women like C-Bruhs, MamaNabi, Winnie, Eva, Anna, and Sylvie, no?
Other than that, I think you hit it right on the head. I don’t understand why some people play this “Oppression Olympics” game. It’s the rare time we’ve had Asian American men in the media, and all of a sudden we get blindsided. It’s the old Pin the Tail on the Asian Male scheme, personified and amplified by the power of the internet. I don’t get it either. There’s nothing to gain by kicking us down. In fact, if they allowed us just a modicum of dignity and empowerment, we might be able to empower others.
I remember one discussion with one of these oppression types, and she kept harping on how Better Luck Tomorrow was so sexist she could hardly watch it. You would’ve thought she was describing Nazi propaganda. I didn’t know what to say. All I remember thinking was how Justin would’ve kept his ass off the fire if only he had been born White.
Jesus, jaehwan, you need to stop coming up with these terrific comments. I’m jealous of how you’ve been breaking it down so succinctly.
In my most recent post on my blog, I quote from your above paragraph about how there’s a nasty tinge to these criticisms, and then after I post my thing, you post an even better comment about the Pin the Tail on the Asian Male card. Why couldn’t you have come up with that comment earlier?
Did I click on the wrong link, read the wrong passage? Because I don’t know what you folks are talking about.
When I pick up a book that promises to be an “anthology of 21st century American literature,” I would expect to see writers of color, and only in the last decade has that really happened. Before, such anthologies were all white with a meager sprinkling of black, and that was it. Activist groups and diversity promoters critiqued that problem, and without those “but what about–” dissenting voices, inclusion of APA, Chicano, or Persian American lit would never have happened.
Ms. Kim raised compelling points, which I’m convinced have nothing to do with internalized Asian-woman-biases-against-Asian-men.
Nice blog post, Jimmy! Your blog post is particularly insightful because you’re speaking from experience. For those who haven’t read his post, check it out here.
I also agree with Christina Chou about the longer stories–that was my main complaint. Certain stories–like Gene Yang’s sad story–demanded a fuller treatment than what we got. Sequel?
Trypika,
The birth of Secret Identities comes from the question of “what about.” The question was “What about Asian Americans.” Jeff, Jimmy, and Company answered this question by creating a book of Asian Superheroes all written by Asian Americans. I’m not against asking “what about;” rather, I am against the extreme way in which Sunny Kim posed it.
The problem is twofold:
a) Certain people overdo it with the “what about” question by trying to include everyone under the sun
b) With the Pin the Tail on the Asian Male school of thought, people apply different standards to Asian men than others
On Point A, we have an Asian American Superhero Anthology. Never before, but now we do. Instead of celebrating it, Sunny Kim trashes it, even going as far as to attack Jeff Yang by innuendo: “Now I know that you know that this sounds pretty similar to what people of color have been hearing as a justification for crooked systems, biased hiring processes and exclusion from publishing houses for decades.”
My question to her is: what’s the point? It’s like the guy takes two steps forward, and she drives him back three steps. Sure, there can be room for improvement, but at least let us make what progress we can. If we attack each other for reasons of “diversity,” we pretty much doom ourselves to mediocrity.
On Point B, think about superhero comics in general. How many women are there? How many openly gay heroes are there? Why is it that these people are willing to beat down an Asian guy, but they’re more or less silent to the idea that it might just be a societal thing rather than an Asian male thing–or in this case, an East Asian male thing. I remember once talking about John Gray’s “Men are from Mars” book, and I got slammed by people with the same mindset. This is exactly what I’m talking about with PTAM…we Asian men sometimes serve as easy targets. They wouldn’t attack John Gray or Louann Brizendine, even if the ideas are the same. I think it has something to do with the fact that these two aren’t Asian men.
I’ve just been through this so many times. A person creates something and unintentionally leaves something out, and then the naysayers trash it to death. How can we expect progress if we’re unwilling to allow it?
I agree with uRB4N, even though i think he is extremely anti-asian women sometimes, he is still very insightful,its really enlightening how full of clarity uRB4N’s perception really is….
Jae,
And evident from some of the comments to this post, isn’t it clear also that we’re going after Sunny Kim with added venom primarily because she is an Asian woman?
Trypika,
If by “we” you mean “URB4N,” then…you’re probably right.
URB4N himself might not dispute that one. I think I’m in agreement with Anna’s post…
THE STORY OF THE CRAB BUCKET
One time a man was walking along the beach and saw another man fishing in the surf with a bait bucket beside him. As he drew closer, he saw that the bait bucket had no lid and had live crabs inside.
“Why don’t you cover your bait bucket so the crabs won’t escape?”, he said.
“You don’t understand.”, the man replied, “If there is one crab in the bucket it would surely crawl out very quickly. However, when there are many crabs in the bucket, if one tries to crawl up the side, the others grab hold of it and pull it back down so that it will share the same fate as the rest of them.”
“Oppression Olympics game” I like that expression. I’m going to use it for now on.
The Blame Game is always thrown at White People. White people ran the Indians off their land. White people brought slaves from Africa. Whites did this or Whites did that. Now we’re getting to blamed for Asian men lack of sexuality.
Many whites did not bring slaves into this country. Have you ever heard of a German, Italian, Hungarian, Greek, Dutch or Polish slave owner? We did not run Native American off their land either! Don’t lump all Whites into one category.
Sieg… why do you keep spouting foolishness? Are you really this behind in your reading?
It’s not enough to say “My family didn’t PERSONALLY bring any slaves over from Africa!” It’s not enough to say, “I never PERSONALLY pushed one Indian off of his land!”
The problem is that you still benefitted from all that free slave labor and especially from the mentality that said Whites were a higher breed of human being than Blacks. You benefitted from all that free land and the idea that Native Americans were mere savages who were not allowed into higher education or government jobs. You benefitted from the policies that kept women from voting in the long years when only White men were allowed to participate in our democracy. You benefitted because you had NO COMPETITION from any of these groups. You’re family had more opportunity because other families were not allowed to even play the game
So even today, when you put on a suit and tie and walk into a job interview YOU are still benefitting from the widespread notion that White people are somehow better than everybody else and are therefore STILL more likely to get the job than an equally qualified Black guy, Native American, Woman, or Asian.
So to that degree, you ARE ALL IN THE SAME CATEGORY. You ALL benefit from the attrocities of the White male power structure who enslaved Blacks, conducted genocide against Native Americans, oppressed Women and then voted in laws for year in and year out that made sure that things stayed that way.
King:
Have you read nothing? My people came to the country from Germany a century ago. There were some immigrants who was Indentured Servants. They had to work for the English for nothing. They were like White slaves.
Did you not know that Italians and Irish faced discrimination? Jews were unwelcome and still face antisemitism today?
I wasn’t even born when the Native Americans lost their land, nor did I have anything to do with Slaves being brought to this land. LOL! Women not being able to vote?? That was 80 years ago, man. Wake up dude!
Asian being discriminated? Did you know that Asian have to lowest crime rate? The highest college graduation? And the lowest unemployment of any monitory group in the nation? The highest salary in par with whites?
I don’t see the discrimination that you are talking about.
On the other hand, blacks have the highest crime rate. The most illegiment birth rate than any America group. Did you know before the civil rights act of 1964, blacks were better off? There were less poverty in the north and west for them, but the south (I admit) was hard for them.
There are students loans and grants to improve anyone life. Colin Powell and Connie Rice worked hard to be where they are at. Most Blacks would rather make babies and try to become the next Lebron James than to study. Why do you think their are more Black Rappers than Whites?
That’s why I don’t feel sorry for blacks. Slavery was bad and evil but you can’t sit around and bitch about it when all you care about is talking in Ebonics.
Have the people in this world were sold into to slavery in one time or the other.
Read your world history book.
We even have a black president, and blacks are still bitching.
Besides, I shook my head when wild Blacks burnt LA to the ground. They beat a poor and innocent white truck driver.
Do you remember what happen to the Korean stores and home? Blacks burnt them to the ground. That’s one reason why Asians hate blacks. They have a low disregard for life and other people’s property. Chines, Japanese and Koreans don’t want them in their country, nor do they want their kids to marry them.
So you Asian discriminate against them as well. Your hands are not so clean. So don’t act self-righteous with me.
Siegfried:
“That’s one reason why Asians hate blacks. ”
Asians don’t hate blacks, but from your comment, it’s apparent that you do.
I don’t like censorship, and I’ll leave your comment up just so people can see what minorities in this country deal with, but could you please not comment here anymore? It’s clear that you’re not here to help anyone, learn anything, or contribute constructively.
Peace,
B.
King: Very true.
“The Blame Game is always thrown at White People. White people ran the Indians off their land. White people brought slaves from Africa. Whites did this or Whites did that. Now we’re getting to blamed for Asian men lack of sexuality.”
That’s called holding criminals responsible for their actions. It’s about calling out a White racist as a White racist, a predator as a predator, and a spade as a spade.
But in America, it’s politically incorrect to question the Great White Hype.
For many White apologists, poor innocent White people are being unfairly blamed for minor little crimes against humanity like … Black chattel slavery or Native Indian genocide whereby White America murdered millions of colored people to spawn their self-styled “Land of the Free” in the first place.
Today, this system of White supremacy continues–albeit in more disguised form behind propaganda slogans like colorblindness or diversity.
You see this with America’s Prison Industrial Complex which imprisons more people than any other country in the world–the disproportionate majority of whom are people of color.
You see this with America’s bogus War on Drugs, which even White media shills admit is a War against Racial Minorities.
You see this with America’s migrant guestworker program, which Congressman Charles Rangel called the “closest thing to legalized slavery” he has ever seen.
You see this with America’s phony War on Terrorism, which in practice is a War against Arabs, Muslims, and South Asians–from America’s Gitmo Gulag to its torture centers like Abu Ghraib.
And you even see this with White America’s “culture” from Hollywood to Main Street USA, where Asian people are treated either as fetished female sex objects (see Siegfried) or as asexualized male eunuchs.
This is what White America’s “moral values” are really about, what their vaunted civilization truly represents–with its mask ripped off and shredded.
But for smug white boys like Herr Siegfried above, he complains what White people are the victims of blame no less.
He’s a classic White male whiner; he represents the glib delusional world that many White apologists live in.
But their Whitebread world is based upon lies through and through.
Their system and way of life are illegimate to the core.
And it deserves to be called out as such, and dealt with as such.
But this is exactly what White America hates the most.
Yes, I guessed that a Siegfried was of German descent, of course.
Sig… really this is going to take FOREVER to try and explain to you. You’re killing me with your ignorance.
What you’re not understanding is that there are drastically different levels of discrimination. Yes, immigrant waves have always faced a certain level of discrimination from the entrenched power structure. Yes, the mics, wops, kikes, krauts, and pollacks all have had their turn as new scapegoat on the block, but ahem… Hello? They were still considered to be WHITE goats. They were all too quickly assimilated into the “melting pot” within a generation or two. Soon enough, they were eating in restaurants with everybody else, playing on national baseball teams, becoming policeman, and delivering the mail. Yet Blacks who had been in America for decades (sometimes even a century) before these groups ever showed up at Ellis Island, were still not allowed to eat in the same cafeteria as Whites. There were “Whites Only” signs all over the place in the south and even the north. There were “No Chinamen Allowed” signs all over the northwest AND THEY STAYED UP FOR GENERATIONS.
Don’t give me that weaksauce comparison! You’re comparing apples to strychnine.
As for you not being born when White Males were originally exploiting these minority groups, it sure hasn’t stopped you from benefitting from the abuse though, has it? So, if your great, great, grandfather steals money from another family and it takes them 80 years to finally be in a position to come and claim it, your answer is, “Dude… that was like 80 years ago.” The time doesn’t erase the injustice—it compounds it with interest! How many generations do you think have been ruined through lack of means, lack of opportunity, lack of education, and lack of hope, while you have been getting fat on the ill-gotten gains of your ethnic ancestors?
As for relevance of crime statistics… that’s really for another time. I can’t write you an entire book here. Jaewan, Larry, would you care to define “White Priveledge” to Zig, I’m getting tired.
Oh, and lest you become even more confused, Sig—nobody here is blaming you or holding you culpable for the crimes of your ancestors nor for those of “White People” in general. You are your own man, and are therefore answerable for your own persoanl actions and attitudes.
But at LEAST have the brains and the balls to admit that as a White Male, you are benefitting from the hundreds of years headstart that were given to you by way of excluding women and minorities from achievement. If you aren’t doing better than most minorities then you certainly should be, given your historical advantages.
For anyone interested, here is another review of Secret Identities from a female perspective:
http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6642975.html?nid=2789
I’ll also add this to the main post.
Oh, I am extremely hostile towards Asian women and I make no apologies for it. I don’t see the “good” Asian women keeping these horrid” Asian women in line. I will only relent when they admit that they’re liable for much of the issues faced by Asian men. Instead, all I hear is “It’s not our fault at all” or some other type of derivative the same statement.
No one will take you seriously if you ramble on like the typical “angry Asian man.” My method is to open discussion and *prove* how Asian women in America actually make a much more dangerous than the oppression from white men. When I talk to my teenage cousins, I don’t feed what I believe to be the truth. I’ll end up proving to them how this is taking place with examples.
Once again, the reason why you haven’t fixed anything is because you haven’t identified the problem correctly.
I don’t think Asian women will ever want to identify the problem; they’re not suffering from it. In fact, they benefit from the problem. Therefore, logically, they stand to gain for the problem to continue.
But URB4n, your arguments would be that much more convincing (like the one you made above) if you just allowed for the fact that there are at least some Asian women who “get it” and are on your side.
“Good” Asian women cannot possibly control the actions of “Horrid” Asian women (as you put it) any more than you can control the actions of “Horrid” Asian men.
How would they do it??? Shoot them?
It doesn’t make any sense.
have all asian people militarized, this is the only solution.
lets see how either of them match up to the perceived ideal of asianness.
otherwise asians are just an easier target for every other race.
i think the Hispanic community will rise up sooner and attack everyone else in America because all others are considered the enemy invaders of their original home.
Women are trophies.
you would almost act like a muslim ( look into Islam, and their view of women ) to keep them “pure”