Podcast: Anna and Larry and Asian Activism

2009 May 18
tags: ,
by jaehwan

Download our latest podcast with Larry and Anna on the topic of Asian American/Australian Activism here, or listen to it here:

The podcast is 51.4 mB and runs for about 45 minutes.  It was bigWOWO’s very first podcast on the topic of forming institutions.  It was also our very first international podcast, with Anna calling in from Australia, where she is a first year university student.  In this episode, Larry and I talk to her about differences in Asian American and Asian Australian culture, and we offer opinions on how to plan and start Asian organizations.

I was very impressed with Anna’s desire to start an Asian Australian organization at her university. There currently are no Asian organizations on campus other than the ones based on country of origin, and I think it takes a lot of bravery to start something new.  It will be hard, since it sounds like the Asian Australian percentages aren’t very high, but I have faith that she can make this work.  It’s especially exciting because Anna is only a first year student, which means that she has years to develop her group and her activism.  I started this stuff five years ago at the age of 28, and I feel like I’ve barely budged.  With a good head start, I think Anna will be able to  do some really great things.

One piece of advice that I should’ve given but didn’t.  Anna (and others looking to start Asian organizations), when you start, don’t do it alone.  Thymos started with five people who agreed to commit to the organization for six months.  The 44s also started with five people (not me, though).  The first few months for any organization are the hardest–it truly is “sink or swim”–so it’s important to get the support of good, talented, committed people.

Just some notes on the production of this podcast: We had technical issues.  First, we had trouble connecting.  Then, we had a bit of trouble hearing one another, so post-recording, I deleted numerous instances where we were saying “What?  What?” and talking over each other.  As a result, there are points throughout the podcast where it may seem disjointed.  Know that it was just my editing, combined with some wacky interference over the conference line.  I also had problems exporting this ‘cast from GarageBand ‘08, which, according to Apple, sometimes has problems working with large files.  I felt like calling Steve Jobs and screaming.  I eventually exported it as an AAC file, and then converted it via iTunes, which is why:

a) It opens with iTunes rather than QuickTime when you click on it.

b) It’s 50 megs rather than the usual 20, even though it’s the same length time-wise.

Anyway, the content is good.  Someday I’ll be able to afford high quality recording equipment.  Then I can play with the big boys.  Until then, it’s all content, so hope you enjoy!

from → Activism, Podcasts

25 Comments leave one →
2009 May 19
anna123 permalink

Really great podcast, especially Anna, she sounds like the best and most eloquent speaker in the world!!!lol hahahaha

2009 May 19
jaehwan permalink

I agree! :)

2009 May 19
CluelessInSeattle permalink

Hey, Matt. Have you heard about this story?

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2009/05/cultural_divide.php

They actually made a restaurant named “Chink’s.”

2009 May 19
CluelessInSeattle permalink

I know it may not rise to the level of a “hate crime” per se, but if somebody made a restaurant called “Peckerwood’s” or “Honkey’s” I’m pretty sure every right-wingnut from California to the Carolinas would all over it.

2009 May 19
jaehwan permalink

Thanks for the link, CIS. It looks like that restaurant was in France. I think it’s good that people are starting to think internationally. With the internet, culture is becoming more and more global.

2009 May 20
minoritymilitant permalink

@B, Larry, and Anna —

I finally got a chance to listen to the podcast today and I found the topic to be very interesting.

Sidenote: Anna, I think you said you loved his eyes or something like that and I saw Byron turning red over the podcast as he chuckled. = O

On a serious note, it’s commendable that Anna, in the environment that she is in and all the forces against her, is trying to start an AA organization at her university. I think when I was 18, I was knocked out on stairways and front lawns from boozing it up the night before. And the fact that she is seeking guidance, resources, and advice in starting this organization — that’s just wonderful.

As for the Asian Australian situation there, I found two points interesting. Assimilation and acculturation. These are two terms that even we, as Asian Americans, struggle with. How do we assimilate without losing our heritage? How do we acculturate while still maintaining a sense of AA identity? And frankly, I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer to that. Actually, there is but that’s another comment in the making. But the initial goal of starting the AA organization, as Larry put it, is to “build consciousness.”

I really don’t know much about starting organizations, but I think those ideas from Byron and Larry were particularly helpful.

As for the comment about politics in organizing, I think that’s such a divisive issue it should be avoided at all costs in your situation. As Bill Clinton once said, and Byron quoted him, “Politics is a contact sport.” People will rip you apart before you even begin to mobilize. I’d agree with them wholeheartedly that making it socially and culturally oriented would be the best step. And the points about journalism and story workshopping from Byron, that was a great idea.

Race politics is something Americans are good at. Do some research and find out what’s happening in your community and the minorities in your country. Do you feel disadvantaged in certain areas of academia? Do you think the Australian government is doing enough to address those issues? Are people even aware that those issues even exist? Ask yourself those questions and I’m sure many Asian Australians, and other minorities, will come and knock on your door with their stories. You’re not starting trouble, you’re bringing real life issues to the table that need to be debated and discussed.

@Larry — You’re a Red?!?! Not surprised.

2009 May 20
anna123 permalink

Thanks for the comment, minoritymilitant. I check out your blog weekly, and listened to the podcast you did with Jaehwan too, it was very interesting.

Yeah, I think consciousness building is the first step, like the fish in the water principle, or planting a seed, the consciousness is the soil, right?

2009 May 21
jaehwan permalink

Awesome points! I think some of these points, like the acculturation question that TMM mentions, deserve their own blog post. As Larry mentioned in the previous podcast thread, just having a diverse crowd doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s progressive or equal. It can be equal, but it can also be unequal, depending on the thought processes and social norms and preconceptions of the group in question. It’s a hard issue because we all work from different frames of reference. I’ll have to think about this one once I get some sleep.

Politics is funny. It’s a contact sport, and it’ll lose you many, many friends. It’ll get people to hate you without even knowing you. However, it tightens the bonds of the friends you do have. There’s nothing like a fight to teach you who your real friends are vs. who is just pretending to be your friend. It also teaches you a lot about you and your friends, including the individual strengths and talents that we all have when we fight for a cause.

But as we all seem to agree, it’s best to avoid politics at the beginning. Build up some cohesion and consciousness before testing it!

2009 May 21
anna123 permalink

Modelminority and Jaehwan,

“How do we assimilate without losing our heritage? How do we acculturate while still maintaining a sense of AA identity?”

Thats the thing, i mean you are already assimilated and acculturalated just by being born and raised in the country. You are already “caucasianized/westernized” just for those facts alone. I think the most important part is whether the community can develope identity politics to represent your interests.

For Australia, we dont even have “Asian Australian studies” or “Ethnic studies” yet. The history of asian australians isnt told in Australian university or schools, and Australian history is told only as from the colonialist anglosaxon “white” perspective where chinese/ asian immigrants are foreigners and “threats” who were causing conflict with the “real ” australians.

So i think thats one of the reasons why asian australian identity is so far behind, as if you arent taught your history, arent taught your heroes, or your place in the national myth of the country,( instead being taught, white heroes, white myths, white stories) then of course your own community’s identity would be assimilationist/self hating or generally not good. Just like malcolm x said, they denied the history and the past to so you have nothing to be proud of, you have no role models, you cant control your own destiny, only accept the stereotypes that are placed upon you by those in power.

And i think its a pretty intelligent and insidious way to go about it, to deny a group of people their history and achievements so that they can be more easily controlled and not represent a threat to others.Like Frank Chin said, if you oppress a group of people for so long, then they start to internalise the racist values projected onto them, they as a cultural force become neutralized. They cant stand up for themselves , because the have internalized the hatred and think they deserve it.

In psychology we studied that there are generally two psychological responses to prejudice or oppression.

1 is assimilation, where the oppressed people try to assimilate / intermarry and erase their own ethnic identifiers so they wont be targeted anymore. In psychological terms, the out-group tries to assimilate so it can become part of the in-group and ejoy the rights and privileges that that can bring.

2 is seperation, where the oppressed people increase the amount of ethnic pride and try to differentiate themselves positively from the oppressors.In psychological terms the out-group seeks empowerment through creating alternative positive identities for themselves so that they can differentiate themselves in a positive way from the in-group.

I think that the development of “culture” is the most important vehicle for establishing positive social identities, without culture you have nothing except the lies told to you by those in control. In terms of culture i mean asian australian / asian american culture aka music, movies, films, books, arts/humanities, because it creates “imagined communities”(Benedict Anderson, 1983) of asian australian/american diaspora wherever they are–helping to create the fertile conditions for asian consciousness.

We didnt discuss that part in the podcast, Jaehwan, about how to build bridges and links with other westernised azn communities/ each other. i think that the development of westernised asian culture is essential for that, just like afro american culture has developed into its own (detached from africa)and promoted afro american identity politics. We should do another podcast on culture!! and how to build it/ across nations.

2009 May 21
robert permalink

Anna,

What a great post! seriously. I’d be really interested to learn more about asian society / culture in Australia. I was always under the impression (as a complete outsider of course) that there was less of an Asian racism issue in AU vs. the US. That’s not to say that I blindly thought it didn’t exist. I’ve not had a chance to listen to the podcast yet, maybe you go into more details there? Again, great post.

2009 May 21
minoritymilitant permalink

@Anna — Damnnnn…Paraphrasing Frank Chin already? I’m starting to like you more and more. =)

2009 May 21
jaehwan permalink

Robert,

Check out the podcast! She does talk about Australia. I learned quite a bit myself.

Anna,

We can definitely do that podcast! Things will always be local to a certain extent, but with the internet and technology, everything is definitely becoming closer and closer. Culture across nations would most definitely be an exciting topic.

TMM,

Frank Chin’s awesome, right? Haha…I don’t know about Anna’s experience, but I’ve found that bringing Chin into the discussion is the quickest way to clear a room of people who aren’t serious about social change.

2009 May 21
robert permalink

wow was I misinformed on AU! For any interested in more info, I found the following (amazingly enough!) on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Australia_policy

@ Anna
2 thoughts/ideas:
Since there is such a small number of Asians at your university, could you erase the Asian aspect and simply form a minority student organization or are the issues that you feel need to be addressed exclusive to Asian Australians? I know it’s not specifically what you’re thinking, but it might be easier to find participants? Is that too fractured of a perspective for what you’re wanting to accomplish?

as far as the resistance your facing with getting your friends to join, maybe Byron’s idea of starting out as a discussion group about related topics would help raise awareness, which might then lead to their interest in activating? For example, if the lack of representation at the university can be demonstrated and discussed in a more concrete way, than you may find more support among the group for working on achieving that goal? It’s one thing for people to be aware of something (ie read about it) but to discuss it with like minded people who face the same issues I would imagine would light a fire under the entire group to act on it. Your thoughts of starting out as a friendship group might accomplish that same goal, as long as you spin the conversations into AA issues.

@ Byron
I’m telling your wife to pull down the picture of your eye, it’s clearly an aphrodisiac to Australian women j/k

2009 September 30
yuey permalink

Hi Anna, How have things progressed so far? I am Asian Australian as well and would like to talk to other Asian Australians about these sorts of issues. I remember from uni that there were various asian clubs (Asian Students in Australia, Malaysian Students Union, Platinum Asia, Singapore Students Society, DESI Club etc) but these were focused on the partying aspect (nothing wrong with that btw) had more of an international flavour and there was no activism whatsoever. Many AA’s would class the events organised as too fobby.

I believe there is a lot we can learn from the Americans. It was only this year that I started “more clearly” seeing the issues affecting us through reading blogs and observations. But not many (if any) Asians are speaking up about these issues.

I get the feeling that even the Kiwi’s are miles ahead of us. The only Asians making waves in Australia atm are the International Students (Indian and Chinese).

There are Asian Australian studies in various unis. Check out http://asianaustralianstudies.org/

Is there anyway I can get in contact with you?

2009 October 1
anna123 permalink

“Yuey”,

Theres a very large difference between “Asian” and “Asian Australian”, in every way, whether it be food, fashion, cultural values, even individual body language and social relationships. They are not the same. There are NO Asian Australian organisations on ANY university campus in Australia. There are “Asian” organisations, but NO Asian Australian organisations. Two very different cultural and social groups.

Having a few conferences per year discussing issues in “Asia” does not = Asian Australian studies. There are no Asian Australian studies departments in ANY UNIVERSITY IN AUSTRALIA. There are “Asian Studies” but NO “Asian Australian Studies”

Are you even Asian Australian? seems like you just googled “Asian Australian” and then listed some random orgs that came up then put them down hoping they’d be relevant….

Where do you live, “Yuey”? and what uni did you go to?

2009 October 1
yuey permalink

I agree with ur first paragraph.

There may not be whole departments/faculties dedicated to AA studies but there are definitely groups or individuals within unis doing Asian Australian studies and research. Note that most Asians in the early days were Chinese so Chinese Australian studies falls within this category.

I only listed one organisation, which really is supposed to act as a network. Yes I did google it, or something related, but many months ago. How else do we find this kind of information without googling? I believe the link I gave is relevant.

How to prove I’m Asian Australian? Hmm geez, I really hate Jay Chou. Is that good enough for you or do you want more proof? :)

I live in Perth and went to UWA.

2009 October 1
Larry permalink

“How to prove I’m Asian Australian? Hmm geez, I really hate Jay Chou.”

What about Takeshi Kaneshiro or the Korean pop star RAIN? How do you feel about them? That’s the litmus test. :)

Seriously though, the incorporation of Asian Australian Studies with Asian Studies is probably not a good thing–if the latter is anything like Asian Studies in the USA.

In general, Asian Studies departments are fairly conservative and are often connected with Area Studies, at least in the USA.

Asian American Studies (AAS), and hopefully Asian Australian Studies, on the other hand should be more politically oppositional.

AAS challenges the existing academic establishment, while Asian Studies props up this establishment.

In the USA, one of the reasons that universities have sought to place Asian American studies classes *within* Asian Studies departments is to politically domesticate the movement for AAS.

In other words, it’s a strategy for institutional cooptation.

“I believe there is a lot we can learn from the Americans.”

Especially from BigWowo.com!

2009 October 1
anna123 permalink

“Yuey”,

If you dont mind, can you please list EXACTLY;

-the university,
-the course/module i.d number(for Asian Australian studies), and
-the professors/ faculty co-ordinators

for the supposed Asian Australian studies that are being researched/held in ANY australian university. I’m having difficulty believing your assertion,as i have already undertaken extensive research in this area.

Also, I just wanted to note that some courses which offer “Chinese Australian Studies” as a module are just that-”Chinese Australian studies”, The relationship between China and Australia, and of Chinese citizens in Australia in the context of China-Australian relations. They do not discuss the experience of Asian Australians in the Australian foundational narrative or postion in Australian society as an oppressed Australian minority ethnic group.

What has China got to do with Asian Australians? what has the relationship between China and Australia got to do with Asian Australia? They are not related. Its like talking about Black Americans then talking about people in “Africa” and somehow linking the two groups they have the same skin colour. I told you before, theres a difference between Asian, and Asian Australian, and this is a important distinction because we’re talking about identity politics here, and the political and economic power relationships that arise from it. Your statement that youre Asian Australian because you “hate Jay Chou” is a little redundant, mate, even white people in Australia know who Jay Chou is, so thats nothing. How can an Asian Australian not know the difference between Asian and Asian Australians? Sure you said you do know the difference, but then you said in the next sentence that “Chinese Australian studies” = “Asian Australian studies”. Okay then…..

Larry,

Yes, I agree with you 100%, and “Asian Studies”(whatever that’s supposed to mean) in Australia is reinforcing the white power establishment. I’ve sent you a P.M.

2009 October 1
yuey permalink

@ Larry,

“What about Takeshi Kaneshiro or the Korean pop star RAIN? How do you feel about them? That’s the litmus test. :)”

Funnily enough I only heard of Takeshi when I was watching Red Cliff with some friends. They were talking about a half Taiwanese-half Japanese actor and I thought I knew which one he was, the one training the troops (Zhou Yu’s troops?). My friends pointed out my mistake, he was the guy playing Zhu Ge. Oops! I know very little about RAIN and even less about Boa. How do I feel about them? Can’t say I feel much at all, I hardly know of them.

@Anna

“Your statement that youre Asian Australian because you “hate Jay Chou” is a little redundant, mate, even white people in Australia know who Jay Chou is, so thats nothing.”

I was really taking the piss :) How does a guy prove he’s Asian Australian in the comments section of an online blog? I love the purple Wiggle, I love the token Asian/Half Asian Chicks on Hi-5, I love dim sims, I watch SBS, go Penny Wong!, etc etc Anyone could say those things. You will just have to take my word.

“If you dont mind, can you please list EXACTLY;

-the university,
-the course/module i.d number(for Asian Australian studies), and
-the professors/ faculty co-ordinators

for the supposed Asian Australian studies that are being researched/held in ANY australian university. I’m having difficulty believing your assertion,as i have already undertaken extensive research in this area.”

I think you’ve got me on this one. I was referring to the work that Tseen Khoo, Olivia Khoo, John Fitzgerald etc have done/are working on. Most of these are part of Asian Studies/Sociology/Culture+Creative Arts programs. Asian Australian studies is a relatively new field.

By Chinese Australian Studies I was referring to things like the Chinese Heritage of Australian Federation Project, which quote”focuses on the private, community and public life of Australia’s Chinese communities before and after Federation in 1901.” Doesn’t this fall into the Asian Australian Studies category?

2009 October 2
anna123 permalink

“Yuey”,

Chinese Australian Federation Project does not = Asian Australian studies. There are no established Asian Australian studies in Australia. And “Asian studies” also does not = Asian Australian studies.

..”I think you’ve got me on this one. I was referring to the work that Tseen Khoo, Olivia Khoo, John Fitzgerald etc have done/are working on. Most of these are part of Asian Studies/Sociology/Culture+Creative Arts programs. Asian Australian studies is a relatively new field”…

…er…okay then, so it WAS BS…look mate, why waste your time making claims you cant provide evidence for?…and I seem to be repeating the same basic concepts;

Asian studies does not = Asian Australian studies
Chinese Australian federation project does not = Asian Australian studies
Chinese Australian conference does not =Asian Australian studies
A few individuals discussing Asians in Australia amongst themselves does not = Asian Australian studies.

Anyway, the bigWOWO is an excellent site to gain new knowledge and insight into the issues facing AZN communities in the “West” and I think you will definitely learn much even from just lurking here.

But just be careful, as there are alot of trolls around who like to make up stories and talk BS, and even pretend to be Asian Australian/American when they are actually not…who knows why some people are so feral that they bother to troll on an AZN empowerment site and promote KKK propaganda. Some people are just dirty, rotting flesh smelling, obese hamburger gobbling fatties who never take personal responsibility and are just too lazy to bother thinking about the world. Not all foreigners are lying pasty faced stink-like-off-cheese smelling liars, in fact some of my best friends are foreigners, so i know that some of them can actually act like decent human beings if they are exposed to Asian Australian culture, its just alot of them are so uneducated/ignorant and stupid, you know?. I guess its history, Asian Australians have more democratic and tolerant cultural values; these foreigner bogans are just modern day savages, they really need Asian Australians save them/to show them the right way, otherwise this great Australian nation will just degenerate into a cesspool of diseased bogan inbreds. Its going to be hard, definitely Asian Australia’s burden to try to civilise these uncultured deviants, but it can be done. We just have to make them believe in themselves, that if they just applied themselves and tried to improve instead of sitting around watching the footy and drinking VB all day like the lazy degenerates they are, they might one day almost be able to be civilised like the rest of us.

Take care “Yuey” and hope you are able to gain new knowledge on bigWOWO.

2009 October 3
yuey permalink

Anna,

Thanks for taking the time to give me a fabulous roasting. It actually feels quite good. There’s a lot more which I should probably read about to get better insight (as you have stated).

Other than starting a group at your uni, what are some other ways you think the AA movement should progress?

After reading your large paragraph I get the feeling you should change your nick to minoritymilitant :)

Anyway, will definitely do some more lurking on the wowo.

Cheers
Yuey

2009 October 3
Edwin permalink

Anna I am an ex-Asian Australian too but I’ve moved to Canada now.

So when I heard about Anna, I felt glad there was someone other who had potential because as an individual I did not find others who would have collaborated politically to get something happening.

I did not like growing up in Australia for numerous reasons and racism is one of them. I was first generation of Chinese Australian and it seems to me that when I was in Australia I felt like the only person with a super heightened awareness about Asian civil rights.

There is a definite lack of Australian studies and for that reason Asians are not able to establish their place firmly in Australian society.

Asian Australians need to know they Belong in Australia as an Equal, they no no less valuable or have less rights than a white Australian.

That is what I think and I feel should be advocated.

The state of Asian Australia civil rights is poor, there is no right of religious difference, racial discrimination, lack of cultural practice, lack of solidarity, ethnic identity subjected to extreme cultural assimilation, lack of services for ethnic people.

For example, If we do not speak English people will stare at us strangely, if we do not drink beer and watch Football then we are not Australian.

IT seems that there are too many narrow minded people (white majority) who think the Australian Identity is something static and essentially ‘white’.
They believe this should be forced on to others too.

There is this a huge racial inequality and cultural ignorance, there isw animosity against ethnic people, e.g. Muslims, Asian, Indians.

Australians like to force assimilation and fear ethnic people.
And from what I last recalled, many Asians there seem to be sleep walking and like to act like colorblind liberals and I think they do this so they do not have to address any issues. They just assimilate and ignore the issues.

That in effect does not improve the society at all because the next generation of Asian Australian will be subjected to the same oppressive social pressures.

I’ve even had assimilated Asians go up against me on my beliefs when I tried to advocate the socio-political inequalities. So from this experience it seems to me that these ‘Asians’ do not want help or understand their equal rights of ethnic interests anymore, the concept of Asian Australian is something that is very weak and unrecognized as Australian people

When I spoke about this in a facebook group I ended up being accused of racism becuase I brought up the ‘race’ topic.

I only spoke about race problems, ironically they were just pretending that racism didn’t exist and turned their backs on the the issues claiming Australia was ‘multicultural’. I was appalled, they really did not understand the concept of true multiculuralism though all they seems to distinguish and confuse ‘multiracial’ with ‘multicultural’ which I believe are mutually exclusive aspects.

Which was so disheartening because their standards reflectively showed their oppressed awareness and accepted the soio-political inequalities.

Just because we see Asian people crowding into the metropolitan/city it does not reflect that Asian peopl are still a small 5% of the entire population.

When white people see this they get scared and this sinophobic tendency that emtail a very anti Asian invasian attitude.

I just did not like the narrow mindedness of Australians when it comes to anyone ‘non-white’ people, I can’t stand the ‘white’ media misrepresenting all Asian related issues.

I am extremely irritated by the dating disparties, how Asian women are fetishsized to the extreme, many ‘white Australian men’ also like visiting Thailand for sex tours. They dislike Asians hanging around in groups,

The list goes on…

btw Anna feel free to join our facebook group ‘Asians not brainwashed by Media’
I am the admin there.

You can also add me if you have facebook.

2009 October 3
Edwin permalink

whoops forgot the link.

Website://www.anbmsource.com
(lot’s of info that might help you)

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2214375888

2009 October 3
Edwin permalink

btw White Australia policy was lifted because of economical pressures,
Australia didn’t make these amendments by choice, it was due to globalization, and to remain competitive they needed to engage in trade with other countries.
Asia seems to be the only next door neighbour.

Note that just because the ‘White Australia policy was lifted, it does not mean the racist sentiments have been extinguished, the animosity towards non whites are still there.

2009 October 7
Larry permalink

Edwin:

I like your website “Asians not brainwashed by Media.” It has very good graphics–in addition to the content. You are right about the reasons why the White Australia policy was ended. It was all about Australia wanting to exploit the Asian market–not racial justice.

I wonder if Canada is much different from the USA in terms of Asian consciousness. As far as I can, it’s not as developed, but there is the Canadian “multicultural” model, which is nominally better than the US “Melting Pot” idea that pushes assimilationism heavily.

Leave A Comment

Note: You can use basic XHTML in your comments. Your email address will never be published.

Subscribe to this comment feed via RSS