From my 44s sprint:
I don’t know who is still here, but if we’ve got any of those crazy martial arts practicing mo-fos around (you know who you are), I’d like to pose a question.
I just found out yesterday that Lyoto Machida, after literally waiting years, will finally get his well-deserved shot at the UFC Light Heavyweight Title. On May 23rd, he will fight and (I predict) destroy Rashad Evans.
Joe Rogan described Machida as the most elusive fighter in the Octagon because he hardly ever gets hit. His punches and kicks are from traditional Shotokan karate–you can see how his kicks travel straight rather than in a larger circle, and he punches with his body straight behind his fist. Most MMA guys strike using circular Muay Thai techniques. I’ve always found it interesting to watch Machida use his straight karate style to defeat the more common Muay Thai fighters.
One thing you don’t see all that often, either from Machida or anyone else, are traditional Shotokan blocks, which look something like this:
My question is this: Has MMA refined the art of blocking punches? A large swinging block like the traditional ones seems a bit outdated. People still block, but it’s usually a very short motion with comparatively little force.
What about the Wing Chun Pak-Sau? Have these traditional techniques become obsolete?
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But here is an...
I agree with everything you said. About #1…I think...
Since all the MMA companies are profit-seeking enterprises specializing in televised fights, they’ve got an interest in making rules that deliver the most entertaining results. Some rules include bonus pay for big knockouts, limited time on the ground without much movement, and restriction of attacks in certain areas. All of these are implemented in order to maximize profits.
With these rules in place, and the prizes being huge even for just participating, fighters take part and learn styles that are best suited for that company’s rules, be it UFC, Strikeforce, K1, etc. As the rules evolve in order to bring bigger profits, the fighters’ styles evolve too. If the prize money increases for head kicks, you’ll see people training more head kicks.
What you’re seeing in MMA is basically the evolutionary ‘best’ that can come about from those rules, and my guess is that Shotokan blocks were weeded out at some point. They’re definitely good for something, but I suspect that, based on the fact that nobody uses them in MMA, they’re not suited for the ring.
I talked to a Wing Chun dude, and he agrees with you. It may be “As Real As It Gets,” but it’s still not real. I think even some BJJ instructors acknowledge this–fighting out of the ring is a whole different ballgame. Maybe karate blocks outside the ring, where people are more likely to swing in larger arcs, are useful there.
Muay Thai and BJJ excel in the octagon because their repertoire of techniques and training fit the rules well. Some Chinese and Japanese styles on the other hand have lots of knee breaks, eye gouges, organ strikes, and types of chokes that aren’t allowed in UFC. I once worked out with some taijitsu guys who were amazed to learn “non-lethal” and “non-maiming” moves from me – they didn’t get taught many at their school. Their practitioners in general would not be immediately prepared to do that UFC style of competition as Thai boxers and grapplers.
However, when people who start from a traditional MA background train in all the same ground and pound as their UFC counterparts, they end up having a secret weapon – a repertoire of techniques that would be considered exotic to the octagon – and totally unexpected by most UFC fighters these days, many who begin their training with “MMA” or a ring-friendly styles. And I love seeing these secret weapons come out in bouts. Love seeing Judo takedowns, clean impactful sidekicks, obscure escapes, etc.
In the case of Machida I actually haven’t seen much blocking in his fights. I attribute his evasiveness much more to rooted angular footwork, similar to southern kung fu styles and Okinawan and Shoryu Karate. When you watch future bouts, notice if he moves forward and to the side simultaneously, dodging his opponents attack while setting up his own strike at a diagonal angle. Also, same in reverse when he’s creating space. When he moves at an angle he’ll either move away from his opponents strike, or meet it before it can reach full power.
All styles have value and techniques that would complement a complete system. But to me MA techniques eventually boil down to knowledge of practical physics interacting in the world around us, knowledge of anatomy, knowledge of your own physical ability, mastery of your mind, and perception of your opponent and environment.
Since the community here might appreciate Asian UFC fighters incorporating unique moves into their fights (judging from this thread), any Cung Le fans here? He incorporates some kung fu style moves from his Sanshou background. It’s good to see him in UFC, because he pretty much already dominated Sanshou. If you haven’t checked him out out, look up the match with Frank Shamrock. Cung breaks Franks arm twice with strikes, I think. Eric would probably know.
Anderson Silva, Cung Le, and Mike Swick are my faves.
Micah,
I think I’m the only guy on this blog who likes MMA. There were a few MMA fans on the 44s, but here, with the older crowd, I’m the only one.
I like Cung Le a lot. Is he actually going to fight in the UFC, or was he just featured? I blogged about him right after he knocked out Shamrock:
http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/03/31/cung-le-beats-frank-shamrock/372/
The only thing that I haven’t seen from Cung Le is ground work. I’d love to see ground work just to know what he can do. I noticed that everyone who fights him, for whatever reason, tries to go toe to toe, and they usually wind up getting pummeled. I’d like to see what his ground work looks like, to see if he’s a complete fighter. I tend to prefer fighters who can fight in all ranges.
My favorites are Lyoto Machida (I think he’s the best out there), BJ Penn (when he’s not too lazy to train), and “Rampage” Jackson (best trash talker in any sport).
Yeah haha Rampage, I love him. He’s a huge gamer. I don’t know if you play anything online (whether pc or xbox) but racism and homophobia is so rampant in games like FPS’s. It’s wild that there’s little punkass gamers tossing around the word n*gger to Rampage (not aware they are playing with him). I wonder if they’d say those words to his face. Of course, he’s a martial artist and wouldn’t beat on some idiot kid, but still.
I’ve mainly heard racism toward black people and slurs about gay people in online games. In my limited experience I haven’t heard racism directed specifically at Asians, but I’m not the guy to ask, since I’m not an avid gamer. I would be interested to hear from gamers and whether there’s a lot of racism towards Asians in that scene. Obviously in the worldwide video game scene there’s a lot of respect for the Asian (especially Korean) gaming community.
One interesting blog post would be how Japanese game developers are becoming desperate to emulate Western developers, and the business and social implications of this.
As a house DJ I have a close social connection to the gay scene. When I was young I played Delta Force online and was a fearsome sniper. That game had no limit on distance you could go out, making good snipers like vengeful gods. Anytime someone would start spouting homophobic slurs, whether they were on my team or the enemies I’d have to pop them non-stop and ruin their game, personally messaging them that being a biggot or racist can be an obstacle to their lives. Not that it changed their minds or solved anything, but it’s cathartic.
Hopefully the movie we did with Cung will be posted sometime. It’s called “Ninjas Must Die” where Cung exterminates a ninja infestation (played by us) in a barn.