Actors’ “Why” Post

2009 April 22
by jaehwan

One of the things I like most about having my own blog is that people understand I’ve got my own schedule.  I post when I can, even though I don’t always have time. Plus, I get to ask hard questions that may not be popular on other blogs or may cause people to fight.  I have total total freedom.

On my Birds of a Feather post, I posed a question to Asian Americans from the Stunt People, asking them why they would support a movie like this.  I got at least three APIs from the Stunt People (Ed, Pete, and Tyler), along with one who is not part of the Stunt People (Derek) but who knows them.  I’m glad they commented because not many people comment on this topic.  I said I would post on the front page any good explanation on why an Asian person would support it, and being a man of my word, I’m going to do it right here, even for those whose explanations don’t seem conclusive to me.  I probably have at least one more thing to say about “Dogs of Chinatown” before I move on, but I’ll post that in a subsequent post.  That’s right, you all get three posts on this topic.  Woo hoo.  Congratulations–but the party will be over soon after that.  I’m sure you all understand.

So Ed Kahana posted a comment here, Derek Lee posted two comments (1 and 2), Tyler posted here, and Pete posted here.  For the record, I wasn’t sure if Tyler or Pete’s posts were relevant, but you be the judge.  I’ll address Derek’s serious call for an apology (along with Eric Jacobus’s call for a correction) in my subsequent post, but for now, feel free to read these three comments in their entireties below.  In case it didn’t come out in my words from the Birds of a Feather post, I truly am happy that you all decided to post here.

Ed

First off, I’ll introduce myself as Ed Kahana. I’m part of the Stunt People which is a group of indie filmmakers and martial artists/non-union stuntmen.

My first immediate comment is Jaehwan’s defense regarding not having to see a movie before making a judgment is that he is “correct”. He can make a judgment based on what he sees in the trailer and checks out on the website. He can do anything he wants, but obviously, calling out supposed “orientalists” without any real knowledge of what and who he is criticizing is pretty irresponsible, dare I say, stupid. If he was a newspaper columnist he wouldn’t write things like that for fear of being sued for defamation (libel in the case of print) but on the Internet, it’s easy for writers like Jaehwan to post such things without verifying facts, even if it’s a judgment. It’s basically like that bully at school that opens his big mouth. But whatever, it’s his blog, he can call it out and not be responsible or tact in his remarks.

AS FOR MY BACKGROUND, well, I just like making martial arts action movies/movies in general. That’s why I joined the Stunt People. I met Eric in a martial arts class at SFSU. I did wushu, and Eric was one of the few serious people that actually tried to learn Shaolin Tantui, read the course reader, and practiced the forms relentlessly. He saw that I could do some decent moves and asked me and another guy from the class to come to the Stunt People open gym practices. I went, was introduced to the other “Asian” guys practicing there like Andy Leung (Eric’s Taekwandoe instructor at the time) who I had seen in one of the Stunt People demo reels. We shot a short fight scene that day. I LOVED to shoot “films” especially martial arts action ones. I had made one in high school and it remains to be one of my fondest memories of high school, so of course I have an immediate connection and respect for guys like Eric and Andy and we became fast friends.

From there, we worked together on a variety of short action films. I, a “pacific islander”, even win in one (beating Eric and Andy) of our most interesting short film/fight featured somewhere in this fan’s compilation of Stunt People fights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t7D6YKowII

Why do we bother producing such racist materials like Dogs of Chinatown? Well, first off, we didn’t. The facts are, the director, Micah Moore, loves to make films too. He also loves and practices martial arts. He made a couple short films and finally got some money (less than 30,000 dollars to make a feature film and hire some people for Dogs) and having been a fan of the Stunt People’s work led primarily by Eric’s directorial vision, promotion, and choreography, he wanted Eric to be a big part of his first big project visually inspired by Sin City and his love of anime and his inspiration by the classic Shakespearean play, “Romeo and Juliet”. You do have to realize that kids in film school spend 30,000 dollars on a short film or a commercial, but Micah was putting it all, in addition to insurmountable amount of hours of his own life into a film that would become 90 minutes or so in length. Anyway, he hired Eric, and while I don’t know the exact reasons, he also hired Ray. In fact, that might actually have been at Eric’s suggestion to Micah. Both Eric and Ray flew over to North Carolina, were given a script, and shot night day for a few weeks (I know Eric did). After that, it was left to Micah to edit the film.

I’ll let your brain think for a second as to why Eric and Ray would go over to work on Dogs of Chinatown . . .

Your second is up. Micah is a fellow filmmaker that we consider a friend. OF COURSE we’re going to help him with his first big project. How would you feel if someone loved your work so much and wanted YOUR help and was even willing to pay you some cash to make it worth your while? Would you even read the script first and see if the script passes your “Asian American red-flag sensibilities” test? These are normal guys that love martial arts and filmmaking and rarely get paid for the work they do. That is essentially the only life they have outside of their 9-5 job and hanging out with friends who are largely in some way or another involved in martial arts or the Stunt People itself. This is where you really have no idea of who you are blasting on the internet, Jaehwan.

Where else does this support come from? Well, you have to see, that Eric comes from a pretty “hickish” place called Redding, California. He moved to San Francisco to go study cinema at SFSU. He always jokes how it was only when he moved to San Francisco and started having more Asian people in the group that Stunt People videos actually got more attention and people started taking the group seriously. That’s a sad fact showcasing reverse discrimination right there because the guys from Redding have worked very hard to develop their martial arts screen fighting performances and choreography and I know that are quite a few people that will look at their work and say, “they just don’t look right” (i.e. because their white and not Asian doing Hong-Kong styled fight scenes). But that’s a different issue altogether. I came into the group not knowing Eric for even a year before he cast me with a lead role in Eric’s first BIG project, “Contour”. Eric was always like that. If you had the martial arts skills, on-screen presence, and some decent acting, Eric would want to feature you in a film. In fact he would shape film plots to fit various people from the group into his movies. No matter if he knew you for a day or a minute, if he liked your work and sensed that other people would want to see what you could do, he would feature you. That’s how he was. In fact, go watch Stunt People Reel 6. It was made when Eric first landed in San Francisco. It features his teacher, Andy Leung, as the main ass-kicker, and for damn good reason: Andy’s an insane kicker. You’ll also see some shots of Eric’s first friend he made at SFSU, Yasu Fujiwara, an international student from Japan. Eric’s somewhere in there, but he is clearly not the main focus. He defers that to Andy.

We’re filmmakers with our own vision. Our visions are certainly not intentionally racist by any means. If you manage to analyze our work and call it racist, for God sakes, we’re sorry the Asian guy didn’t win or that they were cast as villains. You’re asking guys with extremely limited time, money, and social skills to go out, organize and make friends with people we don’t know just so we can make our little indie films appear politically correct? Please. We’re the nicest guys around and friendly to everyone. We like to pride ourselves as a non-exclusive group. We HATE other groups of people that give off that aura of “if you’re not one of us, we’re not going to try to include you”, you know, that sense you get when you’re at a friend’s party and he has his all his work friend there? We’re geeks. We welcome anyone, and enjoy the company of others unless their rude, arrogant, or insane. Chances are, they won’t stick around unless they are geeks like us.

If you start seeing “orientalist” plot lines, themes, etc. in our work. You can ask us about every single film and we will tell you the exact story behind it. But to save you some time, you should be aware of this: guys like Eric, he’s a director. He has worked extremely hard to improve his filmmaking vision, sensibilities, writing skills, acting skills, choreography skills, the list goes on. And he did all this on his own dime. He never hired anyone to teach him these things. He doesn’t have much money period. He just has a passion for films, especially martial arts action ones with awesome fight choreography. The kind of person that can drive themselves to learn all this crap and become proficient at it probably has a pretty strong ego about them. So you think he’s going to envision some other dude as the hero of his movies? Please. He’s front and center, and so by that very nature, if that makes the white guy win, it’s not because of racism, it’s out of human nature. Do you really expect him to excuse the very motivational drive behind his short films and recast someone Asian in the role so as not to appear racist? It’s people like you, Jaehwan, that make misinformed judgment calls that label Eric’s self-fulfilling nature as racism based purely on the fact that he’s white.

And of course you know, Jaehwan, that because you judged someone, in fact, an entire group, The Stunt People, solely based on race, well, you’ve just promoted racism.

Derek Pt1

As an Asian person who knows The Stunt People’s work, many of the members from The Stunt People, likes to keep himself updated on sites like Angry Asian Man, and has read Orientalism by Edward Said I think I’m in a good position to give some insight here.

I’ve seen Dogs of Chinatown and really, there’s no denying that it’s the sort of thing Edward Said would have considered Orientalist. I said it myself from the the premise and trailer alone, but I saw it anyways because I wanted to support fellow indie filmmakers and because I like martial arts movies.

I think it’s easy to get worked up over it from an outsider perspective and believe that Eric, Micah Moore and Blake Flaucette are evil plotting imperialists. The other site did a very good job of demonizing them, but it’s all a load of crock. These guys are not Rudyard Kipling, they’re not making a career off of creating Orientalist works. Another thing is that people have unfairly gone after Eric like he had a part in the planning of the film, when all he was hired to do was act and choreograph. Keep in mind that The Stunt People did not make Dogs of Chinatown, only that 2 members were in it.

Dogs of Chinatown is admittedly not a great film, it was Micah’s first feature length film and it achieves what it needs to do. It has good action and it looks stylish. It’s a pretty cliche film, but I think most involved with it knew that more or less. At a $30k budget, you do what you need to do just to make the film work, and you aren’t concerned with the possible racial subtext the filmmaker may or may not be aware about. Hell, I get people mentioning race in little 2 minute fight scenes I make, just because the Asian guy or White guy lost.

A filmmaker like Quentin Tarantino has a hell of a lot more responsibility (and money) than Micah to make something that is the most socially aware film. This is why people got in a fuss over the video game Resident Evil 5 for basically being a modern day Heart of Darkness. A major video game company, even if it is Japanese should be aware that making a game that depicts a white guy killing hordes of fast African zombies is going to piss people off.

Haha, I’m surprised nobody mentioned that you have all sorts of Asians playing Chinese characters in the film. Did Micah cast them this way because he can’t tell Asians apart? Considering the film was made in North Carolina, Micah just had to make do with casting any Asians he could get, but he probably put more Asian American actors in his film than most other independent films made in North Carolina or even the United States do. Are they greatest roles for Asians? Not really, but they’re not the worse ones I’ve ever seen by any measurement. I think I get more pissed watching the depiction of the Asian men in The Joy Luck Club. In fact, many of the Asian characters in Dogs are a lot less stereotypical than the ones seen in most other martial arts films. Most Asian men in martial arts films have accents, are stoic and are mostly sexless, which is the complete opposite of one of good guys from Dogs.

I think naivete is your answer for Dogs of Chinatown, not conspiracies and imperialistic world views. Quentin Tarantino on the other hand is a guy I can’t stand because he is the entire embodiment of a modern day Orientalist or what one poster called white hipster racism. He is someone who purports knowledge and authority, yet is devoid of true understanding. I don’t think Micah is that sort of guy. He just wanted to make a stylish action film that had a sort of Romeo and Juliet type story, which is sort of a more serious approach to his Pirates vs. Ninja short.

Derek Pt2

I’ve already said what I’ve said about the film, but I do think The Stunt People and Eric do deserve an apology. Sure Eric could have rejected the role, but this is not a Hollywood star we’re talking about here. The director Micah has been a long time poster of The Stunt People forum, and most people on the board who are friends always jump on any opportunity to work together. Where does the need to be super PC stop? Like I’ve said, I’ve gotten comments about race just in my own 2 minute videos alone. Should I never lose an onscreen fight to a white guy just because Chinese people receive racism still?

When Eric’s trying to distance himself from the content of the film, he definitely has legitimate reason to do so, since he had nothing to do with the story. I paid money to see the film despite what I thought about it, so does that make me just as bad? For me, Micah’s next film is a good enough reason for doing so. It will probably be one of the most racially diverse martial arts films ever made, and in a good way, and not in a Crash sort of way.

Furthermore, The Stunt People as a team has even less to do with the film than you’ve made them out to. You pretty much wrote that the Asian members (the ones who make up like half of the team) should abandon the team solely because Eric was in Dogs of Chinatown. You’ve also made them out to be confused race traitors because you mistakenly thought that The Stunt People as a team are involved with the film.

You don’t have to apologize for what you may think about the film, but leave Eric and The Stunt People out of it.

Tyler

wow, Seriously? Are you so absurdly dense that you can’t recognize sarcasm and parody when you see it? We’re parodying racism and racists. Half the crew is Asian, and you know what? We think it’s pretty damn funny. It’s SUPPOSED to be completely over the top to the point of complete absurdity. Sorry to break it to you, but us slanty-eyed yellow coolies are not actually being enslaved over here. IT’S CALLED DEADPAN ABSURDITY.

You are just perpetuating the stereotype that Asians are humorless sticks-in-the-mud. Humor what? I have no idea what that is.
If you haven’t noticed, there are many examples of humor bordering offensiveness for the sake of parody and tongue-in-cheek. For example, Family Guy, SouthPark, and everything that’s on Adult Swim.

Get a fucking clue.

Sincerely,
yet another Chinese girl in the masses

P.S. and no, I’m not one of those deluded and meek little girls that bows to the whims of others, whether it is to men or Caucasians. Maybe if you went to college, you would have learned something about the world.

go read a book.

However, I must admit that I cannot make any comment on projects not fully written and produced by The Stunt People. and eh, who cares if Dogs of Chinatown perpetuates racial and gender stereotypes as long as people are aware that they are racial stereotypes used for the sake of art. run with it.

I was a bit disappointed that the female lead didn’t have any fight scenes, but what are you gonna do? That would have disrupted the cliche damsel-in-distress theme.

Pete

As another “Asian guy” in the Stunt People troupe, I did get annoyed by this post and the link that sparked it. I dislike the way the bloggers attempt to speak for “Asians”, as if that was one cogent “race” in the first place. I also disliked the fact that Eric stars in one film and all of a sudden it provides all sorts of self-righteous ammunition towards all the other Asian people that have anything to do with Eric. He made one film that was treated like a criminal record and became the new face of “orientalism” - which itself is a dated concept that certain circles of angry people are just now catching up on. Racism has adapted and evolved so much and so fluidly that we can’t afford to have people fighting their masturbatory battles at artifacts that barely make a dent in anyone’s life anymore.
I don’t see the “orientalists” gentrifying Chinatowns, I don’t see Eric fucking up the school systems (in fact, he teaches and works with the underprivileged and at-risked kids at Oakland and Tenderloin), and I don’t see hair-pulling in a trailer that is seen by maybe 100 people can result in any type of harm towards the “Asian race”, no matter how abstract.
It seems like all of this anger came from people feeling powerless AS Asian-Americans, which is a problem way bigger than seeing things on youtube and not liking it. And then hiding behind outmoded concepts to mask the aimless angst. I mean, what are you doing that is so different from the angry kids on IMDB? A couple of unsubstantiated academic buzzwords maybe.
The movie might be the worst movie that you ever see, I didn’t work on it and I’m not going to try to persuade you into enjoying it. The problem is your demonization of a big group of people of all sorts of ethnic backgrounds and experiences, based on your own racial fear. It bothers me as someone you’ve clumped into “your team” (an “Asian-American”) would speak for/patronize someone like me (and to answer your question: yes, there are other Asian folks in the Bay Area) and de-humanize a couple of good guys based on an extremely reactionary litmus test. It also bothers me as a filmmaker that you’re giving yourself credential to talk about things you know nothing about just because you’ve read someone else’s blog. And finally it bothers me as an American that while I’m working with the city, the federal programs and the non-profits to plow our way through a systematic injustice by doing my small part (that’s my day job), someone thinks he’s doing the same thing by posting youtube links and shitting on them. Vicitimizing yourself is not the same as intellectualizing, no matter how pretty your words are.

Edit 4.27.09: From Lucas:

from what i can tell about the timing of the movie and the way it was advertized, tokyo drift was created to capitalize off of things that were popular among young people in mainstream america (initial D and the d1/drift craze). it was made because the material will sell.

whatever dogs is, it falls along the same lines as something that hollywood would be able to market to the general american public because that material will sell. i don’t know if marketing was the first thing in mind when dogs was created, but i’m sure it was taken into some kind of consideration.

also, when i watch dogs, i feel like brian lee’s character was very anti asian-stereotype. so there goes your mr miyagi theory.

ALSO, from what i understand, eric wasn’t cast because he’s white.he was cast because of his experience and reputation.

if you met us and saw how we interact with each other i really think your opinion of us would change. as a happa guy, i’ve never felt like i fit in more with a group of people BECAUSE of the diversity of our group. yes i said OUR group. we give eric a lot of credit and props and in response to that i remember him clearly saying, “this isn’t eric jacobus and the stunt people. it’s the stunt people.”

i know i didn’t change your mind or whatever and you’re probably gonna pick apart my response, but whatever. i guess everyone loves them some good edrama. as ashamed as i am to say it, i’ll admit that i do =P

from → Uncategorized

30 Comments leave one →
2009 April 22
Eric Jacobus permalink

You post a factual error on me and The Stunt People, which you’ve yet to change, I respond, prompting you to write this response, and then I don’t get a single quote. What gives?

2009 April 22
jaehwan permalink

Eric, I don’t think I posted a factual error about you, but as promised here, I will make changes to the original post and clarify in a subsequent post, hopefully later today. This post wasn’t about you–it was to fulfill my “obligation” to the Asian American Stunt People, whom I promised I would put on the front page two weeks ago(and your friend Pete called me out on it, even though I still don’t think his post was relevant to the question). Even though I think my blog is an enjoyable read, believe it or not, I don’t do this full time. There are six of you and just one of me, and seeing that you just posted your response last night, I think it’s more than fair that I should have at the very least 24-36 hours to get back to you.

So please, relax, and maybe check out some non-related but exciting news that a martial artist might find interesting. I said I would post a clarification, and I will.

2009 April 22
Eric Jacobus permalink

Thanks jaehwan. I appreciate it.

2009 April 22
jaehwan permalink

Okay, I posted it and cleared up the question of who produced this movie. I still think you should take responsibility for the reasons outlined here, but if you won’t, we can just agree to disagree on this.

2009 April 23
anna permalink

omg….jaewan has a real sense of respect and maturity to post these stunt team responses up.

It took great effort, but i read all the responses. The more i read, the more disappointing and sad it was. Jaewan/Bryon Wong!!! Why do you even bother with these people?!! they are totally brainwashed!! They write like idiotic apologists!

“oh… because you judged someone, in fact, an entire group, The Stunt People, solely based on race, well, you’ve just promoted racism….”

Wow….These losers are never going to change…typical ignorant idiots….I cant stand these losers uuggghhh im so angry right now just thinking what they wrote!FFUUUUU***KKKK!!IDIOOOTSS!!

Stunt team losers, keep making excuses blah blah, just like miley cyrus and dragonball evolution, and all the other bs “media” being made right now. Yeah, you did it for the money, guess you should be proud that you got to make a “film” yeah? …..real great….you guys are pathetic.

2009 April 23
anna permalink

actually thinking about it more….theres a huo jia saying, that it doesnt matter how much others try to tear you down, you shouldnt hate them, but just try to improve yourself, make yourself stronger, and you will improve the situation in the end.

People who make movies like this—they will never change, neither will the people who work for them. The fact that ignorant people continue to produce media such as this only demonstrates the need for minority communities to support their artists so we can have a greater voice in defining ourselves through arts.

Theres a couple such as wongfu productions,…justin lin’s production team….rumble productions (aus)….just kidding films…not to mention the rising number of AzN music artists out there such as jennifer chung..kathy nguen…chuckie akens……shogunna…..Far*east movement….all producing quality stuff.

We should just ignore the haters and concentrate on supporting artists that are more real , innovative, creative and ultimately more accurate representation of artistic expression.

I mean seriously, excluding the racial politics… its not very original to repeat the same old formulaic flick where the stale old kung fu storyline has been done to death…..not interesting at all.

2009 April 23
Edward Kahana permalink

For anyone that wants to jump on one side or the other, realize that it is pointless because both sides agree that the opposing sides are idiots and losers.

2009 April 23
anna permalink

Edward Kahana?…..

You know what? everyone knows its important to try to establish yourself and earn money and make a career, to be able to support yourself independently.

Sometimes you just have to look at the bigger picture and ask yourself “is it worth it?” I mean, if you are making a movie in the tradition of stereotypes which has real world implications, then how can you as a human being still continue to do so? Its not only about money or career sometimes. Its about behaving with dignity and honour and doing whats right , morally.

Maybe you guys are doing “absurdity” based comedy to try to be satirical about racism, but most people wont take it like that. If you realise that by being satirical you are actually promoting the stereotypes then it becomes a question of morality, not of personal careers or financial independence.

I mean, what is a life without honour anyway? without having morales? thinking of only short term personal gain but not for others? do you really want to live like that? could you look your children in the eye and be proud with your behaviour? that you have no regrets?

Sometimes you have to look at the big picture.

2009 April 23
Edward Kahana permalink

Actually, Anne, it is VERY important to establish yourself, earn money, and make a career to support yourself. That’s why I work a 9 to 5 job and not go gig to gig being a stuntman in L.A. where I’ll probably get casted as an Asian martial arts master or as an evil Asian pirate in Pirates of the Caribbean.

Is it worth working alongside people I respect, who have the same passion for entertaining martial arts action films, people who watched over me when I recovered from three knee reconstructive surgeries, who waited for me to heal from those surgeries just so I could play a part in an independent film where no one was paid thereby delaying the completion of the film by at least six months, people who helped me move my stuff up flights of stairs to my apartment, who volunteered and rehearsed for hours to perform for events like the PG & E Asian American cultural week, U.C.S.F. Chinese Year’s cultural celebration, functions to support charitable foundations such as the Capture the Dream , volunteered to teach martial arts at the Glide Memorial foundation’s after school program in the Tenderloin of SF, and go do talks about the process of making an independent film to kids at high schools in San Francisco? Yes, it is worth it. You call us idiots, and some say on this blog we have stunt-damaged brains, hey, I didn’t go to a U.C. school but I got through SFSU with a 3.998 GPA, a place that was the pioneer in Asian American studies since the 60s and now you want to go back and talk about the “big picture”? What’s your “big picture”? Do you do something for the “big picture” every day? Every week? Is it really for the “big picture” or just to satisfy your own feelings of self-worth based on supporting a cause that somehow makes you feel welcomed because you share the same beliefs? Are there things you do or support that goes against your big picture? All those things we did as a GROUP that I mentioned above, we didn’t do for some big pompous notion of a “big picture”. We did it because it was good, it was right, and it helped people. That’s our “big picture”, excuse us if it’s not yours.

And, to your point about making a movie with stereotypes. Grow up. I’ve already posted that if having a movie where the Asian guy knows martial arts is a stereotype that should be chastised then I guess we should all never buy movies from Hong Kong. I will never participate in a movie that I feel is mean spirited towards a particular race or any particular group of people, nor will I participate in a film that I deem consciously perpetuates stereotypes as a means of advancing some racially charged agenda. And if you argue that I should not participate in films that have any stereotypes at all, then I’ll gladly ask you in return to stop buying 90% of the products you consume on a daily basis because on the boards of each of those companies whose products your support you will find people that have financial, social, and political ties to organizations that are probably advancing some sort of racially charged agenda aimed at subjugating Asian Americans. That’s YOUR big picture with the media institutions etc.? Wait until some crazed animal rights activist blasts you for eating meat with much more convincing evidence that you by eating meat your are indeed ruining their “big picture”. Everyone has a “big picture”, Anna.

Again, just as we press your activist buttons with this film and some of us retorted with supposed “white hipster racist” remarks, you are certainly pressing my buttons with all this talk about dignity, morals, and honor. But that’s all I’m going to let someone named “anna” do. Go ahead and press buttons, call names, sling mud, do all these “honorable” things in the name of your “big picture”. I’m certainly going to be proud showing my kids the various films I’ve made, introducing them to their uncles and aunties in the Stunt People, and do some completely without regret.

Oh, and you reference those various indie media companies, including Justin Lin. You praise them for their work in the community and say that they should be supported for that work. Do you have your morals, dignity, and honor questionnaire ready for them? Did Justin Lin not participate in making films featuring stereotypes like Fast and Furious: Tokyo Drift? The antagonists are Asians with ties to Yakuza, etc. ? Yeah, he may have fought for an Asian American lead, etc. but guess what? He lost. Yet, you still support his “honorable” decision to stay on the film as the director. Go, give him your honor speech. Maybe you’ll defend his actions as a means to an end for your “big picture” because as Justin Lin gains more clout and support from the racist media institution in the form of money, he can put out more content through his production company and contribute to the big picture.

I’m not saying you shouldn’t support those people. They should be supported. They are doing great things. They may put out stuff with stereotypes, but the progressive person sees that they also product stuff encouraging cultural products that, as you would say, “are more real , innovative, creative and ultimately more accurate representation of artistic expression. ” Be progressive, not hateful. Disparaging an indie film with limited resources that at its core was aiming for an crime noir film featuring martial arts action is not progressive. Disparaging the Asian cast members, or anyone associated with the filmmakers of such a film is not progressive. Because like it said in the Bible, “let he without sin cast the first stone”, and that’s something I live by because it forces you to look at yourself first before you go judging others. That’s the real big picture.

2009 April 24
anna permalink

O.O…….omg….where to even begin with a reply?….

first off, Justin Lin rejected a multimillion offer of funding for his his groundbreaking film “Better Luck Tommorrow” because one of the conditions of the funding was to change the cast and characters to all white/caucasian.But he refused, stayed true to his original script and made the movie on his own. It takes courage and conviction to refuse all that money,instead making the film on 10 credit cards getting in debt (over $250,000 apparently), cause you believe in a vision of change!

For Tokyo drift, the bad guys are Yakuza because its set in Japan! what, you want them to be Italian mafia like “Godfather” or something? and yeah maybe he did lose a fight for an asian lead, but stayed on board to at least have some control over the representation!

Well, i guess its really clear from your response that you feel quite passionately about your behaviour and sincerely think that you are doing the right thing…….

well theres nothing further to say, really, because its clear from the defensive tone that we wouldnt get very far in terms of dialogue. Its just saddening that while you and the people in the stunt team have so much talent and skills , your thoughts are confused. I know that sounds condescending, but its not. Please dont take it that way.
its just that if you could see what I see, and what many other people see when they watch the film and trailer it would be really great,the situation would be really great.

I really dont want to write anymore as i get the feeling that you would take it as a personal attack on you as a human being, instead of an attack on your behaviour and the film……..

So…i’ll just wish you luck in your future….and hope you will one day see why people didnt agree with this film.

2009 April 25
lucas permalink

from what i can tell about the timing of the movie and the way it was advertized, tokyo drift was created to capitalize off of things that were popular among young people in mainstream america (initial D and the d1/drift craze). it was made because the material will sell.

whatever dogs is, it falls along the same lines as something that hollywood would be able to market to the general american public because that material will sell. i don’t know if marketing was the first thing in mind when dogs was created, but i’m sure it was taken into some kind of consideration.

also, when i watch dogs, i feel like brian lee’s character was very anti asian-stereotype. so there goes your mr miyagi theory.

ALSO, from what i understand, eric wasn’t cast because he’s white.he was cast because of his experience and reputation.

if you met us and saw how we interact with each other i really think your opinion of us would change. as a happa guy, i’ve never felt like i fit in more with a group of people BECAUSE of the diversity of our group. yes i said OUR group. we give eric a lot of credit and props and in response to that i remember him clearly saying, “this isn’t eric jacobus and the stunt people. it’s the stunt people.”

i know i didn’t change your mind or whatever and you’re probably gonna pick apart my response, but whatever. i guess everyone loves them some good edrama. as ashamed as i am to say it, i’ll admit that i do =P

2009 April 26
Edward Kahana permalink

I’ll just keep it to the points you responded with, Anne.

I think it’s awesome that Justin Lin took a huge risk and made something he believed in that was a big win for the AA community, but it just led him to create more an even bigger mainstream movie with stereotypes and a subsequent film with even less minority representation so I don’t see how that did anyone any good except Lin’s debtors from financing BLT. Obviously, Justin Lin’s not always going to be doing something for the AA community with his work, but why should Eric and the Stunt People always be held to a standard that if we participate in an shoestring budget movie to help a friend on their first movie that has stereotypes they are labeled racists? Same damn situation, but Justin Lin has even bigger expectations to fill since he puts himself out there as a representative of the AA community, Eric and the Stunt People didn’t. So, again, why do the Stunt People get hammered?

Your point about the film being set in Japan, well….Dogs of Chinatown is set in an urban city between two gangs. I doubt Micah knew enough Latinos or African Americans to rope together a cast to make a war between crime families consisting of those “races” hence Italians versus the Triads. You argue that the stereotype is justified based on circumstance of the story, I and relentless others have argued the same thing for Dogs. Again, but since Micah directed it the film and not Justin Lin I guess it’s racist.

As for Justin Lin staying on board for representation, what did he stay on board for in the next Fast and Furious? Even more under representation of Asians? I see less than a few in the credits for IMDB.

And these thoughts of confusion. What would someone like myself be confused about? What points have you made that would illustrate that? I’ve responded to all your points quite vividly.

I am not confused about my thoughts at all. I went through the Asian American studies classes, etc., I’m aware of the under representation and misrepresentation of Asians in the media. But, I don’t associate myself with the cause to change that. I’m not against it, I agree with it and would support people who PROGRESSIVELY work for that cause. And the reason why I say progressively is that because of the flaws of this “system” and the fact that everyone living here is part of that system, there is no way that even progressive people like Justin Lin can operate and continue to cause change without doing some things that can be viewed as going against the cause.
And even though I’m not putting myself out there as a proponent of this AA media representation cause, I’m still going to make a film that’s going to feature a minority Pacific Island culture and do so in a way that’s not demeaning but empowering for that culture in as far as an action adventure movie of my tastes can push it. This IS out of my moral honor to my heritage not because of some agenda to push Pacific Islanders forward in society. If it produces the same result, great.

But to people like you, Jaehwan, the original blog poster at Bicoastal, I get it . Showing a white guy get the Asian girl is a blow to the honor to many Asian men. I don’t agree that it SHOULD be a blow to their honor because I see alot of Asian men with Asian girls, I grew up that way in Hawaii and Guam, and I myself don’t have that personal issue, but I can see that, for whatever reason, Asian men like Jaehwan just get so offended by it. You call Eric and The Stunt People racists, and a film that we supported racist you’ve GREATLY offended us.

Now, if you want to wrap defense of that honor for AA males in the cause for AA media representation, etc. for the good of the AA community, I guess that’s really YOUR choice. It’s all where you draw the line, and because we’re on different sides of the line, we will always differ on where the line should be drawn. You say excluding Justin Lin, I say including Justin Lin. You have three reasons, I have three reasons. It just goes back and forth.

And, I completely see how people didn’t agree with this film, and I just DO NOT AGREE with that view. And by disagreeing with that view it does not mean that I think people SHOULDN’T have that view or express it, but I do think that people shouldn’t label or even IMPLY things and ESPECIALLY PEOPLE as being racist because that is a VERY VERY VERY heavy label and you better be able to back it up with some damn good logic and examples. So far, the debate regarding racism in the film will just keep going in circles because each sides produces a point that the other side will counter until the end of time, but again, my main issue here is the people.

This argument ended on Bicoastal because it dealt with the movie, but it reignited here because “Birds of a Feather” through its title and its words put this racist label on Eric and The Stunt People.

2009 April 26
Micah Moore permalink

Dogs of Chinatown is a crime noir about criminal individuals from a few different backgrounds illustrating that everyone can equally be a douchebag no matter where they come from, and any individual can be guilty of the worst characteristics of men.

The Characters - be they white, Asian, or black - are all racist and violent. They all die in ugly fashions because of their ignorant beliefs, faith in stereotypes, participation in hollow traditions, and violent lifestyles.

If the movie had a racist agenda, the racist characters would probably live and prosper, instead of suffering gruesome fates because of their ignorant perspectives and actions.

So far, all viewers who’ve actually seen the film minus one (from BCB) have walked away with this moral. I respect that one persons point of view, BUT he refused to either register or admit that the white and black characters were exactly the same as the Asian characters when it came to vile character flaws - which reveals how predisposed he was to viewing the film from his biased disposition of racism, and not from a neutral literary POV. Otherwise he might have seen that all the characters are the same regardless of heritage, and not singled out or victimized - they represent the flaws of men in total, not any particular heritage.

***No teacher of fair debate in the world (of any culture) would support Jaehwan’s notion that you don’t need to actually see or read a piece of media to fairly argue all about it. And if you refuse the ethos, logos, and pathos of all sane experts in the world, insisting you know better, that speaks loads on the enormity of your ego and character flaws, and predetermined bias.***

2009 April 26
hahahahaha permalink

^So this film for sure doesn’t follow some cliched formula of a Great White Hope influencing for the better or freeing the colored person/people of their own vices/setbacks either through his direct actions or sacrifice?

If so, I might be down for watching this.

2009 April 26
Micah Moore permalink

Hey there,

If you can watch it with the understanding that everyone is individuals, and not cultural ambassadors, you’ll be fine. It is, however, pessimistic commentary on mob mentality and the darkside of some Human men. If you’re fine with the character with the least character flaws coming out on top regardless of whether they are Asian, white, black, Latino, or of other ethnic heritage you’ll be fine. However, if you really feel personally that no individual should be allowed to help another individual with different skin tone or ethnic origin, or fall in love with someone of a different culture, you wouldn’t like this movie. If you feel that only black individuals should be allowed to be protagonists or anti-heroes amongst predominantly black circles, and same for Asians, whites, Latinos, indigenous peoples, etc - that everyone should just stick to their own - you wouldn’t like this film.
If you take offense to the idea of a white individual beating an Asian individual in a martial arts fight because of personal traits like dedication and practice, or Yao Ming beating a black individual in basketball, or Matsui hitting a homer on a white pitcher, or Japan and Korea winning the world DMC breakdance competition against black and Latino Americans, or Eminem outrapping an individual black rapper, or black individual being a better matador than a Spaniard individual, this film isn’t for you. If you can appreciate individuals for personal merit - or in the case of this crime noir, having two less character flaws (that of sexist domination and racism in the case of Jack vs the other characters) - you might do OK with the film. If characters suffering terrible fates because they are ignorant, racist, and violent upsets you - don’t what the movie.

In most of our other films, it randomly happens that we have Black, Asian, or Native American protagonists that prosper because as real individuals those performers fit the acting or action requirements of the roles, and we’ve mainly had white villains because we’ve just happened to know some white dudes that excel at playing villains. For this martial arts film I wanted the best choreographer/screenfighter double-threat we could get. Which happens to be Eric, and he happens to have pale skin. I don’t think he needs to apologize for that. It’s his personal dedication and skill in his art as an individual that makes him desirable to cast as a lead, just as the character he plays has a personal psychology and lifestyle that allows him to go further than any other individuals around him regardless of something as trite as skin pigment amount - for he’s definitely excels beyond any of the white individuals or black individuals as well.

2009 April 26
Micah Moore permalink

Jack’s an individual. A loner devoid of any cultural identity, practicing no hollow tradition just cuz some dude thousands of years ago said he should, never distinguishing himself from any other individual based on skin tone, religion, or culture - all fabricated BS that has kept people apart and thugs in power for all of civilization’s history. Only an individual can be righteous. And until the people here start looking at other people as individuals, and works of art as individual, they will project their own fear and hate and the fear and hate of nefarious individuals in the world onto people and works who are clean of such filth. And that must be one ugly world of pain and anxiety to live in.

2009 April 27
jaehwan permalink

Micah,

We are the World. It didn’t even work for Martin Luther King, who urged “temporary separation” when exposed to the subtle racism of the North. It doesn’t work for me either.

Ed,

“Showing a white guy get the Asian girl is a blow to the honor to many Asian men. I don’t agree that it SHOULD be a blow to their honor because I see alot of Asian men with Asian girls, I grew up that way in Hawaii and Guam, and I myself don’t have that personal issue, but I can see that, for whatever reason, Asian men like Jaehwan just get so offended by it.”

Honor? Did I say that? Did anyone say that? I said in that podcast many times that the producer could produce whatever she wanted and that I wouldn’t oppose it. It’s got nothing to do with honor.

I’d just like to see some different kinds of stories rather than the old Amy Tan WM/AF rehash. As an API actor, I’m surprised you wouldn’t want to step up and see the same. It makes me happy to see it, but it puts food on the table for you.

2009 April 27
hahahahaha permalink

Micah,

Wow. I didn’t think you’d take it so seriously. Anyways, I’ll hold my judgment til I see how the rest of your filmography pans out. This whole mess could’ve stemmed from something “coincidental.”

2009 April 27
jaehwan permalink

Hey Lucas,

Sorry, didn’t get a chance to respond. Thanks for your comments.

Did you want them up on the main page too? Actually, I’ll put it up.

I think it’s great what the Stunt People are doing for you in terms of community. I won’t pick your response apart; there’s already enough e-drama goin’ on! :)

2009 April 27
Micah permalink

Hey haha.

I appreciate your approach to analyzation and giving people a fair evaluation.

As our first feature, the film has plenty of flaws and there’s plenty not to like, mostly production value stuff, and a few spots where I could have done a better job directing the actors, who were capable and really only limited by me.
The film is very heavy-handed and extreme, but it’s a cathartic piece about a suicidal hitman killing lots of racist criminals regardless of their many heritages. Those elements were used to show that the evils of man knows no cultural bounds. And neither does love.

It’s not a story about a white knight in shining armor showing any group the error of their ways. The Anti-hero is an remorseless psychopath and serial killer who offs his target regardless of skin tone, simply because they had it coming to them for their prejudice mindsets and violent lifestyles. One guy gets shot point blank who says “queers” in a derogatory way. The CHARACTERS are filled with ugliness, sexism and racism. It’s a harsh film that could be considered controversial.

But what happened here was the actors and filmmakers and most of our audience saw the film as a cathartic kill-all-the-criminals-and-biggots moral, which is why they went along with it. Jaehwan and some others don’t agree with their point of view from only watching the trailer and started calling everyone involved really nasty words. Myself, I’ve been able to strip down my ego over the years, so I don’t care. But for those particular posters from this blog and BCB to call a really good group of individuals from all ethnicities racists and biggots, all the while using stereotypical imagery like fratboys, and ignorant slurs like “faggots,” I’ll say something.

Remember, when Blake said those things Jaeh selectively quoted, he was living up to EXACTLY the stereotype VU and some others had painted him into. They were begging him to dance like a monkey, and he did, thinking their discussion was open, multicultural, and light-hearted. Before a discussion was ever breached it was VU and Jaehwan talking about fratboys, mimicking valley girl speech patterns, and reveling in stereotypes and racism. But unlike the racism in Dogs amongst fictional characters, they were talking about real people, individuals they knew hardly anything about.

I still didn’t take it too seriously, until I researched this blog, and saw post after post where Jaehwan is not trying to bridge cultural gaps and promote pluralistic tolerance and understanding, but is preaching the separation of ethnic groups while assigning them differential value and spreading his own prejudice against anyone who doesn’t think like him, or look enough like him. And when I run into that kind of biggotry from any individual, well I actually am not surprised usually. But when it’s aimed at my Asian and black and white and Latino and Native friends, I’m quick to add to our solidarity. Thus I’ve said serious things here.

2009 April 27
jaehwan permalink

No one called anyone a racist or “biggot” except you, Micah. I used the term Orientalist, which is slightly different. You’ll have to check out the book to find out what it means. We mostly stuck to the actions, not the person. If I had called someone a “biggot,” I would’ve spelled “biggot” with one g.

Also, check out this essay:

http://chintalks.blogspot.com/2008/08/racist-love.html

2009 April 27
jaehwan permalink

I still didn’t take it too seriously, until I researched this blog, and saw post after post where Jaehwan is not trying to bridge cultural gaps and promote pluralistic tolerance and understanding, but is preaching the separation of ethnic groups while assigning them differential value and spreading his own prejudice against anyone who doesn’t think like him, or look enough like him.

Also, back in the eighteenth century, there were African Americans who supported slavery. Slaves, even. These people were considered a lot more “understanding” than the “troublemakers” who would dare to question the system. I just happen to be a troublemaker who will seek “understanding” on my own terms.

2009 April 27
Micah permalink

Yep nearly every culture and nation has had slaves or some similar spinoff. That’s why I think humans are flawed in general. I don’t isolate any one group to pick on, I pick on everyone at once.

I can’t experience what it’s like to be you, but to a small extent I can imagine what it’s like to be in your shoes, someone in a world where you are different to the majority of people around you, not fitting in because of other people’s ignorant discomfort, mainly having shows and movies on TV about white families to watch - families perhaps different than your own, and when there are minorities its usually a stereotype, you yourself are dismissed by many people into stereotypes, once in a while outright ridiculed or physically harassed by idiots and bullies for the way you look, taking comfort in the positive elements of your cultural identity, befriended by Asiaphiles who love anime Chinese takeout kung fu and you (not realizing Asian cultures are like all cultures and have as much negative elements as positive), dealing with stereotypical jokes about your manhood (hey, that’s serious psychological stuff for guys), not being taken seriously in some fields where custom expects someone with a different look and hasn’t broken the ice with noteable Asian-Americans yet, maybe seeing a girl you like run off with a guy that looks like the biggoted bullies you’ve encountered. Etc etc all day long.

The first thing I did at the BCB blog was try to imagine what it was like to be in your shoes and I also asked my Asian-American friends for their angles and thoughts. Some of them are very American melting pot, others “are off the boat” from many nations, and two are actually prominent figures in Mainland and Taiwanese art circles. The one from Mainland was in the film and obviously worried as well about the tone and message and characterization. He read the script, realized it was about individual love, but still thought he might use a pseudonym if he found the film too controversial. When he saw the final film he realized the whites and blacks and Asian characters were all the same - just representation of man’s darkside - and proudly used his real name. He’s really insightful and someone I asked for guidance during the whole process to make sure I didn’t mess up the balance of characters and seemingly single any “group” out. Anyway, that’s why I took so long to chime in on BCB. I did have to research and figure out if my cathartic kill-all-racists film was singling anyone out or balanced enough for viewers to understand the unified message.

Most understand.

I know you might say it’s foolish and very incomplete to “imagine myself in your shoes.” But what else can I do? Get John Woo to do Face Off 2 for you and me?

Have you put yourself in my shoes? I was born with white skin and as we don’t have a choice in such matters, I have to be OK fine with it. I realize that there’s a lot of idiots in America who will give me preferential treatment. Do I gleefully accept it with smiles, relishing it over minorities? No, I call people out.
I’ve seen a lot of racism go down. I haven’t been the target because I have white skin. Does this mean I approve of racism? Does this mean I cause it? Does this mean I own slaves? Does this mean I let it slide? Well I spent a year making a film where a bunch of racists from different backgrounds get killed by a pessimistic loner with no group identity, and I made it with a group of multicultural friends….soooo…….
Continuing, I was born to a family of poor school teachers. I mainly came up in a poor black neighborhood. Though I always had a lot of multicultural friends I never assumed to be “part” of their culture though I was fortunate enough to sometimes be a welcome participant in cultural events. My mothers side were liberal artists from the north, and my dad’s side from a tiny penniless ranch in the middle of nowhere in Texas. Because of this I never had any kind of cultural indoctrination other than being taught about many religions and histories and arts from around the world. I went to a highschool filled with wealthy white kids; some were cool individuals and some were prick individuals. But I realized I didn’t share many of the same values with the other students because of my economic status. So at night I went out dancing and dj’ing and to cyphers, and afterschool I bagged groceries and trained at a kung fu school and during high school I slept. My activities of choice sometimes offered cultural insight (cyphers, kung fu) from my mentors, but other circles were all skin tones and unified, abandoning all predispositions and leaving cultural identity behind (such as the early 90’s rave scene).

I kind of feel that even though you might be bullied and targeted because of your skin tone, you commit some of the same acts, but you don’t consider it bullying just because those individuals you attack have a skin tone that has generally excluded them from racism. I think you feel discriminating against individuals who don’t normally get discriminated against is justice, regardless of whether those individuals are indeed racist, or whether they are sympathetic individuals who stand against racism.

Understanding is something we should all seek. Our lifespans are short, and the knowledge in the world so vast. But I’m not ethnocentric enough or egocentric enough to demand this understanding be according to my own individual opinion or group-identity-opinion. I need diverse input to form balanced thought, and if I can withhold final judgments altogether, I prefer to. That’s why it’s so great to have such a multicultural circle of individuals from so many diverse political social and economic backgrounds. I learn so much from all of my friends, and I can learn from non-friends as well. Any good MA guy will tell you, you have to learn from your enemies. Even though no one here is an enemy to me, I’ve been a able to glean a little bit here and there in this blog, mostly about the identity you and other posters claim and your perception of the world and concerns. The institution thing is a good thing to consider. All the history lessons and literature are valid, but elementary and obvious - yes, humans have been f*ed up from the get go - sometimes it’s whitey holding blacks down, sometimes Chinese holding Tibetans down, sometimes Arabs killing Christians and vice versa. There will always be brilliant minds that point out the idiocy of prejudice on all sides that get ignored and sometime persecuted by slower-minded mobs.

I’m for us all working together. You think I’m idealist and ridiculous. I can’t help that. But I’ve seen the hand-in-hand path work in my life everyday in our circles, without prejudice, and without dismissing each others cultural background.

Whether the world is ready to behave like we do….whether you are ready….I can’t make that decision.

2009 April 27
Edward Kahana permalink

“Honor? Did I say that? Did anyone say that? I said in that podcast many times that the producer could produce whatever she wanted and that I wouldn’t oppose it. It’s got nothing to do with honor.”

Yes, Anne opened up on this particular blog article about calling my “honor” into question regarding my work with the Stunt People. So the honor responses are directed toward her comments. And I know what you said about the producer of “Falling for Grace”. You’ve already stated that “it’s not your community”.

“I’d just like to see some different kinds of stories rather than the old Amy Tan WM/AF rehash. As an API actor, I’m surprised you wouldn’t want to step up and see the same. It makes me happy to see it, but it puts food on the table for you.”

Great. Me, too. But there are “effective” ways to push for different stories, and there are “ineffective ways”. When you “call people out” in the way that you and Bicoastal did, you are not inspiring us to create films that are progressive for your cause. You may even think that it was a “wake up call”. However, instead, it just made us think less of you activist-types. From OUR viewpoint, we’re minding our own business, and I’m even working on a script that could be considered progressive for Pacific Islanders without need for a “rude awakening” from you, and then out of the blue, a few blogging activists come out of no where and tell us we’re doing something wrong, labeling us as “Orientalists”, speculating about us having “racist” views of the AA community, etc. How in the world do you think you would generate a “positive response” out of that if that’s your ultimate goal?

Again, I recognize that it is cool to you and your community to have the Asian man or woman on top in media. It’s a BIG PLUS. But just because I’m an API actor, that doesn’t mean that it is my mission in life let alone one of my priorities is to see AAs represented to combat years of stereotypes in the media. If I was an AA activist, or purported myself to be a representative of the AA community, I’d expect to be held up to a “higher” standard where my movies pushed past stereotypes, etc. I’ll play the game if I know the rules. It’s all about expectations. You have different expectations than I do, but your expectations of my viewpoint about Eric, The Stunt People, Dogs of Chinatown, etc. is based on 1) simply that I’m Asian and would supposedly share the same viewpoint as you, 2) you not having experience in this industry, 3) you not understanding the mindset of people who are filmmakers, and 4) not understanding the real dynamics of the Stunt People “institution”.

And certainly, by the way you have treated us on these blogs, you have certainly not convinced me to push YOUR cause. Because, why would I want to be like you? Why would I want to get upset at seeing an Asian girl with a white guy? Why would I want to fill myself with so much hate that is going to put a stop to whatever great things my talent could’ve produced that was beneficial when all I’m going to do is focus on that hate to no one’s benefit? You are setting an example that people on the other side of the line will never want to follow in. You may have great activist intentions, but the way you go about it makes all the difference.

Truly, I may look like you, may be treated by the white majority like you, etc. but I may not define myself and put myself in the same category as your AA community. That doesn’t mean that I don’t have the power to do great things for the AA community and be progressive for your cause, but how could I possibly want to do so now that you’ve insulted my friends, myself, and my intentions and views? You had an opportunity to either convince API/Asians in the group to either align interests for Asian representation in media and/or be progressive for your cause by creating works that the AA community would appreciate. But now we leave this blog with such a bitter taste in our mouths because of a lack of mutual respect that began this entire conversation.

2009 April 28
jaehwan permalink

Okay, Ed, let me first start by saying this.

I agree with Anna 100%, 150% if that’s possible. I think she’s asking all the right questions that you should be trying to answer. I think she’s right to be putting the pressure on you. Seriously, you could use the pressure because these are important issues that you really need to think about. Remember, you’re in the media, and with great media exposure comes great responsibility.

That being said, I personally may be drilling you a bit hard. You have to understand that your very first post struck me as everything an Asian American version of an Uncle Tom would say, which is why I called you a “lap dog.” I followed up with “parrot” just because I thought it was funny, which I guess it wasn’t. Hope you won’t hold it against me.

Anyway, I mentioned in another post the idea of having a podcast to Micah and (possibly) Blake or Eric. Podcasts tend to be a bit more cordial than print communication, so if this is something you’d like to do, I can make it happen. Maybe we could do an Asian American Stunt People podcast, and I could hear from you, Lucas, and Tyler. We could clear the air and you can say what you need to say. You can even use it to promote your screenplay or latest project. I’ll still ask hard questions, but as I said, the conversations do tend to be more cordial in real time.

If this is something you and the crew would like to do, let me know. If not, that’s cool too.

2009 April 28
jaehwan permalink

Let me just also say, Ed, that I’ve been drilling you harder than everyone else, and maybe I should apologize for that.

2009 April 28
anna permalink

Edward Kahana……….?

Yes, i talked about honour, because well, ultimately i think thats one of the most important moral values to live by, to behave through in life. Like you said, we both believe our views are honourable….etc, so this discussion is just going to go in a circle…i agree. So i wont comment further on this issue with you. Good luck, and i hope you find happiness and love in this life.

Jaehwan…………?

“You have to understand that your very first post struck me as everything an Asian American version of an Uncle Tom would say, which is why I called you a “lap dog.”

thats exactly what i though too, but i didnt want to say it because i thought it would be too crude and vulgar, lol, but i really admire your fearless honesty. If you are ever doing a podcast, i’d happily participate…..

jing-feng-chen@hotmail.com

thats my email address, that i use regularly or you can pm me on youtube at

http://www.youtube.com/user/jingfengchen24

feel free to contact me or check out my channel jaehwan. Peace

2009 April 28
Edward Kahana permalink

First of all, I’m familiar with most references, but that “uncle Tom” one I had to google. If you’re referring to my “passivity”, well please understand:

I practice martial arts.

I am a nice, smiley, Asian Pacific Islander.

I am a relatively passive person who when disturbed will unleash.

I AM your Asian stereotype that you hate seeing so represented so much in the media. I LIVE IT EVERY DAY and it works fine for me amidst the racist society that is the San Francisco Bay Area. Just because it’s a stereotype, doesn’t mean it’s true about some, if not, ALOT of people. You say you and the AA community hate seeing that stereotype represented and that makes me think “screw you man, this is who I am, you telling me I can’t be who I am”, and you just do not seem to acknowledge that. You can argue that media representation, etc. did it to me or not which is akin to arguing if it was the chicken or the egg that came first; fact is, some people fit the Asian stereotype, some do not. Some view stereotypes as always having a negative impact on people, some do not. These are differences.

People will always have differences, but in my opinion, sometimes you have to accept those differences, learn to overcome them, and do something positive despite them in order to accomplish your mission.

I understand that you see part of your mission, or maybe its entirety, as an activist is to “stir” things up because you believe that is an “effective” action for your cause; but I am trying to make you aware that in the real world where stereotypes do play a REAL role either by defining people or by people defining stereotypes some of these actions in the name of activism will not be all that effective. Again, I’m not at all surprised that you do not agree with this view because this is coming from a passive “uncle Tom” and you’re the opposite. But realize that I AM the one in media, and just because I’m an “uncle Tom” that doesn’t mean that I am not capable of unleashing something later that will be beneficial for the AA or API community. You have to realize that YOU are directly asking something of ME, not me asking something of you.

And certainly, you can ask those questions of me, which is fine. I keep answering them. But do understand that I think that it is partially unfair in the manner that you asked and that is was also partially unfair that you are asking me of all people because from my point of view, I don’t see you questioning the bigger fish like Justin Lin or tons of other people that are recognized as proponents of the AA community. To me, people like that have a much larger impact and offer an even more insightful view into the real media system. And that kind of blatant hypocrisy is a difficult pill for someone like me to swallow.

And it’s really not the matter of whether or not I’m getting drilled hard; questions are questions, and they will either be fair or unfair, and I will choose to answer them or not; but until you convince me that you are putting some decent thought and understanding of my position before trying to get what YOU want from ME, I will remain, quite frankly, upset.

As for the podcast, you can email me suggestions if it works out, great. I’ve already realized that the amount of hours I’ve spent having to reply to these posts equal at least 20 pages of script of the feature I was working on.

2009 April 28
jaehwan permalink

Sounds good, Ed. I’ll post something up about the podcasts later tonight. I have another podcast coming up this weekend, but we’ll try to get it together in the not-too-distant future. It might be good to have a group of AA actors and actresses, so if you want anyone to join you, let me know.

Anna, glad you’re in. I sent you an e-mail!

2009 April 28
jaehwan permalink

Oh…I said AA actors, but if Eric wants in, that’s cool too.

Leave A Comment

Note: You can use basic XHTML in your comments. Your email address will never be published.

Subscribe to this comment feed via RSS