I appreciated your passion even if I do not agree with all your points.

I will say a few last things.

I don’t think discrimination is justified (duh), but some of the situations are complex. People want to protect their cultural identity and country unity. Both Thailand and Malaysia are tiny countries, 65 and 20 million people, relative to China with 1.2 billion.
(of course not all Chinese are the same, and speak the same language)
When you border such a large country there are understandable worries about being a minority in the region and that a foreign culture could greatly change your own. There are situations like this all over the world, you could even make this point about Thailand being China to Laos or Cambodia. In Cambodia there is resentment towards Thais as they dwarf Cambodia in population and economic power and Thais own a lot of businesses in Cambodia.

As for some Chinese fleeing Mao and the communists to Thailand, it did happen. I know someone personally (needless to say he is elderly). Also if you do a search you can read more about refugees and KMT fleeing and retreating to Thailand, Burma, etc.

So my father-in-law said that he basically agrees with you. He doesn’t think racism would disappear if the religious differences were lessened, but he thinks it would help.

“I dont vote for Obama because hes muslim”

when in reality they dont vote for him because they dont like black people.

Even if he was proven to be Christian, they would say hes a “secret” muslim, because they dont want to admit they are racist, and hate blacks.

Pribumis say “i dont like Chinese malays, because they arent muslim, etc”

In reality, they just take advantage of existing social discrimination against ethnic Chinese to gain power( or deny others power)

In either case, who cares if Obama is muslim? who cares if Ethnic Chinese are buddhist? religion is no reason to discriminate and marginalise or exclude. Neither is Ethnicity or racial background. The religion argument is smoke and mirrors, no matter what country it is used in.

Its true that big teocheo companies like CP have economic power, as well as politicians having Chinese blood. This is the consequences of forced assimilation-just like how the Eurasian population would be higher in Hong Kong than in say, Dalian. My family is Nanyang Chinese, Gaginang,(teocheo) from SE asia so I know the situation overthere well.

Lingyai, lets not “compete” about which community was victimised the most in SE Asia, because it would never end. Both Thai and Malay chinese communities along with Indonesia etc were traumatised.
It was the 1900s-1980s, that whole period was turbulent and destructive in Asia. You had colonisation, decolonisation, communism, capitalism, liberations, oppression, warfare, famines, mass migration, Chinese civil war, Thaland civil war, Vietnam civil War, Singapore seccession, Malay emergency, Indonesia civil war, WW2 and invading Japan, rise of competing communist/ capitalist factions in Asia, all in the context of crumbling imperial powers and the competing sides of the Soviet/US cold war. Add to that regional politics of PRC/ROC and the JIA and the U.S interests, —it was a terrible situation.All i can say is, if you speak to a ethnic chinese indonesian/thai/malay from thailand,or indonesia, you will realise that the situations they have faced are similiar in terms of political/social marginalisation and exclusion.

About what you said about communists, Lingyai, do you even know the history of Thailand, or of Nanyang Chinese? the Thai Communist party was created by Thai born ethnic Chinese along with the Indonesian PKI and Malaysian Communist parties. All these parties were created by ethnic Chinese from these countries, with large Indian/malay membership as well. They wanted to free their people, and liberate their countries from the shackles of European/U.S colonialism.

Lets not forget that the Thai communist party attacked U.S airbases in Thailand to stop US bombers in the Vietnam war, or that the 4 million Indonesian PKI (majority whom were ethnic Chinese)were massacred during the 1960s after the U.S sponsored coupe against Surkano. And then theres the Singapore/Malaysia situation where they outlawed the communist party altogether and executed and imprisoned the membership.

Lingyai, do you know that the Malaysian/Singapore communnist party wanted to create a unified Malaysian(inclu. Indonesia) federation? where people would not be judged by the colour of their skin or their religion or their ethnicity? this party still exists to this day (although they remain outlawed in Singapore) in Malaysia(Johor), and are composed of pribumi Malays, ethnic Chinese, and Indians.

How can you say that these communists were

“Chinese that fled Mao’s communists and came to thailand to escape these communists”?

its not true.

For Jaehwan’s father in law, i understand what you are saying, but i strongly disagree.Do you think that if all ethnic Chinese became muslim, there would nt be any problems? For example;

During the 1996-1997 race riots in Indonesia, all, ALL ethnic Chinese(or Chinese looking) people were targeted.Even the ones wearing the headscarves and who were muslim. It wasnt about religion, IT NEVER WAS. It was only about the “race”(or appearence)

There are over 45,000 ethnic Chinese muslims in malaysia, do you think they face “race” based discrimination? But they are muslim arent they?

Some Pribumis say “its about religion” but actually, they are subverting religion and using it justify their own ugly racial politics to gain political and economic power.

My father-in-law agrees with much of what you’ve said, Anna, and (I think) he agrees 100% with you, Lingyai. So here’s what he posted:

Malaysia was a paradise for the Chinese from mid-50s till end-60s, even when compared with the fate of the Chinese Thai. But after the racial riots between the Malays and the non-Malays in May 1969, following the significant gains by the non-Malay opposition in the national general elections, things have turned from bad to worse for the Chinese and the Indians. Since 1970, the Malay-dominated government has been introducing a wide variety of discriminative laws against the non-Malays.

But I maintain my position that much of the animosity between the Malays and the Chinese in Malaysia arises and persists owing to the failure to integrate/assimilate, which in turn has much to do with the rigidity of Islam and its incompatibility with the Chinese way of life. Plus, due to the sizable Chinese population and the Malay’s lack of self-confidence, the Malay politicians resort to an explosive mix of political/religious/legal/social measures to institutionalize racist policies. Currently these idiots are madly promoting the “Malay supremacy” ideology while calling all non-Malay Malaysians “guests”, “outsiders” or “squatters” of the country!! And when the non-Malays protest against such discriminative practices, the Malay top leaders blatantly display their “keris” or sword in public and vowed that they are determined to safeguard the native land and people by staining the keris with the Chinese blood!!!

Also recent former (and possible again in the future depending on political struggles) prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra is of chinese decent. I can’t name any Malaysian PM of chinese decent (are there?)

There are chinese newspapers in thailand and chinese lettering on businesses all over the place.

The gov’t had a war against chinese communist…because they were communists. Some Chinese fled Mao’s communists and came to thailand to escape these communists.

I am not saying there has not been any discrimination against ethnic Chinese in thailand but to say it is anything like Malaysia just doesn’t stand up.

Thanks for de-lurking, and welcome to bigWOWO! It’s totally awesome that you’re here!

So I will admit almost complete ignorance of what goes on in SE Asia. I only know what my father-in-law tells me, plus the stuff I’ve read in books like Amy Chua’s “World on Fire.” When I get a chance, I may read Lingyai’s recommendation. I’m also going to try to learn more about the history that you mentioned!

Anyway, my father-in-law just sent me another e-mail. Let me get his permission to post. If I do, I’ll put it here.

Thanks so much for enlightening me!

Actually, during the 1800′s there were many discriminatory laws passed by the Thai govt. against Thailand born Chinese and Chinese immigrants. These laws continud to be passed up until the 1920′s such as th 1913 Name Adoption law passed by King Rama VI which forced all ethnic Chinese people in Thailand to adopt Thai surnames, in effect, erasing their ethnic identity or be expelled from Thailand. Also communal associations were also made illegal to stop ethnic Chinese Thais from organising against these laws. There were also race riots targeting ethnic Chinese, especially in Sawarat/Bangkok Chinatown suburbs during this period.

These was even a state of semi civil war between the ethnic chinese Thai Communist party and the Thai government that lasted up until the 1980s when the amnesty was declared. I cam give you more information, if you want about this situation, but i can tell you now, there was and is still racial discrimination against ethnic Chinese in Thailand, but it is downplayed by the Thai govt.

You said they “assimilated” ? well yes, they did, so much that many Thai Chinese were made to feel ashamed of their ethnic heritage.The government banned Chinese language newspapers, banned communal associations, banned the use of Chinese names and forced the adoption of Thai names, as well as deporting/imprisonng any ethnic Chinese thais who fought against these actions.

Please dont state that religion was a factor differentiating Malay/Indo Chinese and Thai Chinese treatment in these situations. It has nothing to do with religion. It is more about a culture of Bumi and Pribumi supremacy that is used to achieve economic and potlitical power in these countries. Thailand had a much larger ethnic Chinese population at the time, as well as being an ally of th U.S and the Guo Min Dan forces of WW2 so they used forced assimilation to prevent the formation of an ethnic Chinese Thai identity. Instead, they created a “Thai” identity/rather forced everyone to adopt one.

Its kind of like saying that All Asians in America must use “Smith” or “Jones” as a last name, banning Asian American Associations, banning the use of Chinese/Korean/Japanese in the public sphere-only english allowed, and trying to get the Asian/white intermarriage to encourage assimilation into the majority and promote social stability.

Can it be said if that happened in America, that Asian Americans didnt face discrimination? what if someone came along and said

“oh…most Asian Americans are buddhist/confucian(etc), most white Americans are Christian thats why this happened”

would you accept this explanation?. The religion arguement is all smoke and mirrors for the situation in Thailand, Indonesia and Malaysia. The real causes are the supremacy complex of a majority that thinks they have more right to the land, even though ethnic Chinese have been living in SE Asian since the 15th Centuries, cleared the forests, built the farms and roads, built villages, and call those places “Home”.

Anyway, just thought you might be interested to know this, and keep up your great work with this website!

As for the language while everyone is taught Malay and it is the main language it is not dominant, like English is in America. Imagine if English was like 65% of the billboards and newspapers and the rest were in Spanish and another language. There are already people angry at some spanish here now imagine it was more prevalent and you had people of mexican decent as head of most of the major high profile companies even though they were less than 30% population and don’t have the same surname as the majority of the population, you can understand why there might be conflict.
(now let me be crystal clear I am not endorsing Malaysian gov’t policy, just trying to show how some of the conflict comes about).
Of course it depend where you are in Malaysia, like most places the major cities are more diverse than other parts of the country.

A total unscientific guess is that intermarriage between ethnic Chinese and Malays is a lot less than Thailand, and part of that can be “blamed” on the religion. This lack of intermarriage means people of chinese (or indian) decent stick out more in malaysia as opposed to Thailand were they might have traditional Thai names and look more ethnically Thai.