I’ve been busy as f#$@, so apologies if my blogging is very short for the next few weeks. For example, I had a lot more to say about the two immediate prior posts, but I had to cut short because I’m out of time. So fill in the blanks if I’ve left any. I do have a very important post that I’d like to make on Tuesday the 6th. Hopefully I’ll get that one out.
Alpha had an interesting blog post this morning on bonobo chimps. Intellectual-types are always talking about the bonobos with their matriarchal society, free-loving ways. They’re always painting the bonobo as a model for us humans to follow if we want to live more peacefully with greater cooperation. I happen to agree that we have something to learn from these chimps.
But that’s not why I’m posting. I’m posting because of a very interesting question that Alpha raised at the end of his blog post:
Many countries have tried real hard to get rid of the Chinese or at least make it damn miserable for them: “In Indonesia, ethnic Chinese are not allowed to educate their children in formal Chinese-medium schools. In some cases other cultural markers (such as Chinese calendars) are banned. Chinese-language signs were banned in Indonesia until 2004.”
Whereas other societies have tried to isolate or outright exterminate overseas Chinese, Thailand has taken the “bonobo approach,” stressing assimilation and intermarriage:
“Official statistics show that six million people in 1987, or about 14% of Thailand’s population claim to be of Chinese ethnicity. Extensive intermarriages with the Thais, especially in the past has resulted in many people who claim Chinese ethnicity with Thai ancestry, or mixed.”
When I read this, I wondered why Thailand was so different from Malaysia. Alpha is 100% right; there’s far more ethnic strife between the Chinese and the Malay or the Chinese and Indonesians, as compared with the Chinese and Thai. At first I thought that it had something to do with colonization–i.e. nobody ever colonized Thailand, and therefore they didn’t have the same colonialist structures in place–but then I realized that Vietnam is a former colony, and they don’t have the Malaysia/Indonesia ethnic problem. I then thought that possibly it had something to do with the economy, with more economic activity creating more strife, as described in Amy Chua’s “World on Fire.” But then I remembered that Thailand is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, exporter of rice. They were making a killing when energy prices were high and people were hording.
In the end, I was stumped, so I consulted my father-in-law, who is from that region. He said right away that “the main reason is Religion.” He explained that in order to intermarry in Malaysia or Indonesia, a Chinese person has to convert to Islam, has to take on a Muslim name, and has to fast once a month and remove pork from his/her diet. Plus, no booze. It’s totally un-Chinese!
In Malaysia, he explained, it’s particularly bad. All Malays must identify with Islam, plus Chinese who convert must still indicate their race on all official documentations. There is reverse affirmative action that keeps Chinese numbers from filling the top schools. My father-in-law said that after the fall of apartheid in South Africa, Malaysia is now the only country that sanctions legalized racism as a policy.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again–we need to get religion out of government. George W. Bush has brought our country down in part through his fanatical Bible thumping, and there is no way to fight racism in Malaysia without the, um, liberalization of social/cultural codes. It can’t be done. I know that there are many very bright people who argue that religion is a way of life for certain people, but government has to get beyond that. We see religious wars all over the place–from the Middle East conflicts to the Pakistani/Indian fights. It’s been going on for way too long, and it’s gotta end.
I’ll bet anything that the bonobo chimps have no religion.
No related posts.
I agree with everything you said. About #1…I think...
8(
I wouldn’t say...
What about Tibet?
All Malays must identify with Islam, plus Chinese who convert must still indicate their race on all official documentations.
Would that suggest that the issue is ethnicity rather than religious?
I know that Korean ethnic minorities are treated with much contempt and have similar lack of civil rights in Japan. Although, in this case specifically, religion plays a huge role (or reversely in the plight of Tibetans who want to hold onto their buddhist beliefs and a country of they can call their own), a major human flaw that has over the history of mankind caused the most detriment in advancement of civilization is an innate belief that if it is true for oneself, it is true for others. Be it racism, sexism, religious fervor… so often one is taught that A or B is the only way to be and all the rest be damned. In case of what’s going on Gaza currently, it is appalling that this has gone on for this long – that a single book that dictates a single piece of land to belong to a single group of people has caused years of strife, death, and tremendous atrocities. Yet another example of people’s ardent belief in their righteousness, they have the right to fight to death.
Sometimes, humans disgust me so much I want to cry.
Good points.
Terri,
I think religion becomes a way of justifying racism. It has happened in this country with the KKK, and it happens in Malaysia.
I think that’s the problem with certain fundamentalist religions. They encourage people to follow rather than lead. Pretty soon, no one thinks for himself or herself. Then it becomes a war of leaders trying to get their populations to impose their beliefs on other populations.
Tibet…
What *about* it?
From my minor experience part of the problem is you have 3 distinct groups in Malaysia, Chinese, Indians, Malays (there are also native aboriginals). These groups start school at a young age at different institutions. The indians go to an indian school, chinese go to a chinese school, malays go to malay school. Combine that with 3 -4 different languages (Malay, English, Chinese etc) you have a lifestyle where you don’t necessarily interact very much outside of basic transactions such as buying things a the store. Can you imagine if different ethnic groups went different school here? (you could argue it does happen a bit here but nowhere near to the same degree and we all learn in the same language for the most part).
Combine this with religion, Islam in general is more rigid than some other religions and you are going to have problems. Point being part of it is religion but part is differing language and other issues.
Good point, Lingyai, but I think everyone speaks Malay. Can someone help me out on this? My father-in-law speaks a whole bunch of different languages.
Now as to whether the school “segregation” creates differences: I’d agree that it creates differences. But when does it get to the level that racial differentiation becomes a part of government policy? Washington Irving High School in NYC, for example, is mostly black, Exeter is mostly white, while Stuy is mostly Asian, but these differences don’t become institutionalized.
My father-in-law just sent an article that maybe others might find interesting:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/08/opinion/edbowring.php
For those who are interested in Malaysian history around the WW2 period The Gift of Rain is a great book.
As for the language while everyone is taught Malay and it is the main language it is not dominant, like English is in America. Imagine if English was like 65% of the billboards and newspapers and the rest were in Spanish and another language. There are already people angry at some spanish here now imagine it was more prevalent and you had people of mexican decent as head of most of the major high profile companies even though they were less than 30% population and don’t have the same surname as the majority of the population, you can understand why there might be conflict.
(now let me be crystal clear I am not endorsing Malaysian gov’t policy, just trying to show how some of the conflict comes about).
Of course it depend where you are in Malaysia, like most places the major cities are more diverse than other parts of the country.
A total unscientific guess is that intermarriage between ethnic Chinese and Malays is a lot less than Thailand, and part of that can be “blamed” on the religion. This lack of intermarriage means people of chinese (or indian) decent stick out more in malaysia as opposed to Thailand were they might have traditional Thai names and look more ethnically Thai.
Thanks, Lingyai!
Hi Jaehwan, you have a great site, that ive just started lurking at.
About your comments on why there is racial discrimination in Malaysia but not Thailand against Chinese, I’m sorry, but I think you are mistaken about that.
Actually, during the 1800′s there were many discriminatory laws passed by the Thai govt. against Thailand born Chinese and Chinese immigrants. These laws continud to be passed up until the 1920′s such as th 1913 Name Adoption law passed by King Rama VI which forced all ethnic Chinese people in Thailand to adopt Thai surnames, in effect, erasing their ethnic identity or be expelled from Thailand. Also communal associations were also made illegal to stop ethnic Chinese Thais from organising against these laws. There were also race riots targeting ethnic Chinese, especially in Sawarat/Bangkok Chinatown suburbs during this period.
These was even a state of semi civil war between the ethnic chinese Thai Communist party and the Thai government that lasted up until the 1980s when the amnesty was declared. I cam give you more information, if you want about this situation, but i can tell you now, there was and is still racial discrimination against ethnic Chinese in Thailand, but it is downplayed by the Thai govt.
You said they “assimilated” ? well yes, they did, so much that many Thai Chinese were made to feel ashamed of their ethnic heritage.The government banned Chinese language newspapers, banned communal associations, banned the use of Chinese names and forced the adoption of Thai names, as well as deporting/imprisonng any ethnic Chinese thais who fought against these actions.
Please dont state that religion was a factor differentiating Malay/Indo Chinese and Thai Chinese treatment in these situations. It has nothing to do with religion. It is more about a culture of Bumi and Pribumi supremacy that is used to achieve economic and potlitical power in these countries. Thailand had a much larger ethnic Chinese population at the time, as well as being an ally of th U.S and the Guo Min Dan forces of WW2 so they used forced assimilation to prevent the formation of an ethnic Chinese Thai identity. Instead, they created a “Thai” identity/rather forced everyone to adopt one.
Its kind of like saying that All Asians in America must use “Smith” or “Jones” as a last name, banning Asian American Associations, banning the use of Chinese/Korean/Japanese in the public sphere-only english allowed, and trying to get the Asian/white intermarriage to encourage assimilation into the majority and promote social stability.
Can it be said if that happened in America, that Asian Americans didnt face discrimination? what if someone came along and said
“oh…most Asian Americans are buddhist/confucian(etc), most white Americans are Christian thats why this happened”
would you accept this explanation?. The religion arguement is all smoke and mirrors for the situation in Thailand, Indonesia and Malaysia. The real causes are the supremacy complex of a majority that thinks they have more right to the land, even though ethnic Chinese have been living in SE Asian since the 15th Centuries, cleared the forests, built the farms and roads, built villages, and call those places “Home”.
Anyway, just thought you might be interested to know this, and keep up your great work with this website!
Hey Anna,
Thanks for de-lurking, and welcome to bigWOWO! It’s totally awesome that you’re here!
So I will admit almost complete ignorance of what goes on in SE Asia. I only know what my father-in-law tells me, plus the stuff I’ve read in books like Amy Chua’s “World on Fire.” When I get a chance, I may read Lingyai’s recommendation. I’m also going to try to learn more about the history that you mentioned!
Anyway, my father-in-law just sent me another e-mail. Let me get his permission to post. If I do, I’ll put it here.
Thanks so much for enlightening me!
I don’t think anyone said there has been NO discrimination against ethnic chinese in thailand but to say it is the same or similar level as in malaysia is not supported by the facts.
Many of the major Thai corporations are run by ethnic chinese, search for the CP group being one of the biggest.
Also recent former (and possible again in the future depending on political struggles) prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra is of chinese decent. I can’t name any Malaysian PM of chinese decent (are there?)
There are chinese newspapers in thailand and chinese lettering on businesses all over the place.
The gov’t had a war against chinese communist…because they were communists. Some Chinese fled Mao’s communists and came to thailand to escape these communists.
I am not saying there has not been any discrimination against ethnic Chinese in thailand but to say it is anything like Malaysia just doesn’t stand up.
My father-in-law, who was born and raised in Malaysia, said that by law, the Prime Minister of Malaysia must be a Malay. Deputy PM has no such restrictions, but it’s generally understood that that position should be a Malay. He says that the last 4 PM’s of Thailand have been of Chinese descent.
My father-in-law agrees with much of what you’ve said, Anna, and (I think) he agrees 100% with you, Lingyai. So here’s what he posted:
Malaysia was a paradise for the Chinese from mid-50s till end-60s, even when compared with the fate of the Chinese Thai. But after the racial riots between the Malays and the non-Malays in May 1969, following the significant gains by the non-Malay opposition in the national general elections, things have turned from bad to worse for the Chinese and the Indians. Since 1970, the Malay-dominated government has been introducing a wide variety of discriminative laws against the non-Malays.
I wholly agree with Anna that, until the 80s, Thailand was notorious in bullying the Chinese there. In fact, its King Rama VI made the famous remark that “the Oversea Chinese are the Jews of the East”. Many bright Chinese Thais were killed by the Thai army during those turbulent years of continual army coups, mostly as scapegoats. But today, however, Thailand is very close to China in foreign relations, with Chinese schools/newspapers/organizations sprouting up again. Although
mostly Buddhist, the Thais do face religious and separatist problems nowadays with the predominantly Muslims living in the south–which borders Malaysia and which used to be part of the colonial Malaya under the British rule. That is why lately a top Malay politician boasted that Malaysia plans to “liberate” its “oppressed brothers and sisters” living in Singapore, Thailand, and the Philippines.
But I maintain my position that much of the animosity between the Malays and the Chinese in Malaysia arises and persists owing to the failure to integrate/assimilate, which in turn has much to do with the rigidity of Islam and its incompatibility with the Chinese way of life. Plus, due to the sizable Chinese population and the Malay’s lack of self-confidence, the Malay politicians resort to an explosive mix of political/religious/legal/social measures to institutionalize racist policies. Currently these idiots are madly promoting the “Malay supremacy” ideology while calling all non-Malay Malaysians “guests”, “outsiders” or “squatters” of the country!! And when the non-Malays protest against such discriminative practices, the Malay top leaders blatantly display their “keris” or sword in public and vowed that they are determined to safeguard the native land and people by staining the keris with the Chinese blood!!!
Yes Lingyai, you are 100% correct, since the 1980s, Thailand has decriminalised the use of Chinese Characters,communal associations etc. Theres no need to criminalise “Chinese identity” when their are no more Chinese left to identify.
Its true that big teocheo companies like CP have economic power, as well as politicians having Chinese blood. This is the consequences of forced assimilation-just like how the Eurasian population would be higher in Hong Kong than in say, Dalian. My family is Nanyang Chinese, Gaginang,(teocheo) from SE asia so I know the situation overthere well.
Lingyai, lets not “compete” about which community was victimised the most in SE Asia, because it would never end. Both Thai and Malay chinese communities along with Indonesia etc were traumatised.
It was the 1900s-1980s, that whole period was turbulent and destructive in Asia. You had colonisation, decolonisation, communism, capitalism, liberations, oppression, warfare, famines, mass migration, Chinese civil war, Thaland civil war, Vietnam civil War, Singapore seccession, Malay emergency, Indonesia civil war, WW2 and invading Japan, rise of competing communist/ capitalist factions in Asia, all in the context of crumbling imperial powers and the competing sides of the Soviet/US cold war. Add to that regional politics of PRC/ROC and the JIA and the U.S interests, —it was a terrible situation.All i can say is, if you speak to a ethnic chinese indonesian/thai/malay from thailand,or indonesia, you will realise that the situations they have faced are similiar in terms of political/social marginalisation and exclusion.
About what you said about communists, Lingyai, do you even know the history of Thailand, or of Nanyang Chinese? the Thai Communist party was created by Thai born ethnic Chinese along with the Indonesian PKI and Malaysian Communist parties. All these parties were created by ethnic Chinese from these countries, with large Indian/malay membership as well. They wanted to free their people, and liberate their countries from the shackles of European/U.S colonialism.
Lets not forget that the Thai communist party attacked U.S airbases in Thailand to stop US bombers in the Vietnam war, or that the 4 million Indonesian PKI (majority whom were ethnic Chinese)were massacred during the 1960s after the U.S sponsored coupe against Surkano. And then theres the Singapore/Malaysia situation where they outlawed the communist party altogether and executed and imprisoned the membership.
Lingyai, do you know that the Malaysian/Singapore communnist party wanted to create a unified Malaysian(inclu. Indonesia) federation? where people would not be judged by the colour of their skin or their religion or their ethnicity? this party still exists to this day (although they remain outlawed in Singapore) in Malaysia(Johor), and are composed of pribumi Malays, ethnic Chinese, and Indians.
How can you say that these communists were
“Chinese that fled Mao’s communists and came to thailand to escape these communists”?
its not true.
For Jaehwan’s father in law, i understand what you are saying, but i strongly disagree.Do you think that if all ethnic Chinese became muslim, there would nt be any problems? For example;
During the 1996-1997 race riots in Indonesia, all, ALL ethnic Chinese(or Chinese looking) people were targeted.Even the ones wearing the headscarves and who were muslim. It wasnt about religion, IT NEVER WAS. It was only about the “race”(or appearence)
There are over 45,000 ethnic Chinese muslims in malaysia, do you think they face “race” based discrimination? But they are muslim arent they?
Some Pribumis say “its about religion” but actually, they are subverting religion and using it justify their own ugly racial politics to gain political and economic power.
An U.S analogy would be Republicans saying
“I dont vote for Obama because hes muslim”
when in reality they dont vote for him because they dont like black people.
Even if he was proven to be Christian, they would say hes a “secret” muslim, because they dont want to admit they are racist, and hate blacks.
Pribumis say “i dont like Chinese malays, because they arent muslim, etc”
In reality, they just take advantage of existing social discrimination against ethnic Chinese to gain power( or deny others power)
In either case, who cares if Obama is muslim? who cares if Ethnic Chinese are buddhist? religion is no reason to discriminate and marginalise or exclude. Neither is Ethnicity or racial background. The religion argument is smoke and mirrors, no matter what country it is used in.
Hey Anna,
So my father-in-law said that he basically agrees with you. He doesn’t think racism would disappear if the religious differences were lessened, but he thinks it would help.
Anna,
I appreciated your passion even if I do not agree with all your points.
I will say a few last things.
I don’t think discrimination is justified (duh), but some of the situations are complex. People want to protect their cultural identity and country unity. Both Thailand and Malaysia are tiny countries, 65 and 20 million people, relative to China with 1.2 billion.
(of course not all Chinese are the same, and speak the same language)
When you border such a large country there are understandable worries about being a minority in the region and that a foreign culture could greatly change your own. There are situations like this all over the world, you could even make this point about Thailand being China to Laos or Cambodia. In Cambodia there is resentment towards Thais as they dwarf Cambodia in population and economic power and Thais own a lot of businesses in Cambodia.
As for some Chinese fleeing Mao and the communists to Thailand, it did happen. I know someone personally (needless to say he is elderly). Also if you do a search you can read more about refugees and KMT fleeing and retreating to Thailand, Burma, etc.
Salam,
The fundamental issue is not racism, but religion. BN, Pakatan and Perkasa are all creations of NWO and they operate and function according to their (NWO) directives. The whole strategy is to proselytise the Muslims into something else, and witout Islam, they hope to achieve real racial harmony and nationhood. This is the long term objective of the One Malaysia concept under the NWO. Najib, Dollah and Mahathir are all freemasons operating under the umbrella of the NWO. Tun Razak was systematically poisoned by them (NWO) for the crime that he committed namely for going against his own masonic vows and for the conceptions and implementations of the NEP, the Bahasa Malaysia, the National Education Policy and the importation of Indonesian Malays. Mahathir gradually but surely put an end to all these policies which were and are crtically repugnant to the grand designs of the NWO.
The Muslims of Malaysia today are either half way or are already kafirs thesemselves. It needs a little bit more push to make them real and committed kafirs. Remember, the Muslims of the Philippines, Indonesia and Satun (southern Thailand) were and are being effectively proselytised by the NWO. The Muslims of Malaysia and the rest of the southern Thai provinces are all steadily following suit.
Thank you.
Sincerely Yours
Wan Solehah al-Halbani