Prince Harry
For anyone who has dealt at length with people from Britain, this was to be expected. They are a country with lots of white supremacist racists. Not all of them, of course, but a lot of them. It makes lots of sense: colonize the entire world AND enter the 21st century without having a civil rights movement or a abolition movement, and crap like this takes place. I’m not saying this as a personal attack; it’s just a fact.
So I don’t blame Prince Harry for his racist comment. It’s probably just the kind of language he was raised on. However, I do hope he uses it as a launching pad for a larger dialogue on British racism. Racism may sound somewhat more sophisticated when it comes wrapped in a Bri-tish ahk-cent, but it’s still racist, and the rest of the world has been putting up with British racism for long enough. It’s time for someone at the top to start trying to fix their broken system of race relations. Maybe this can be the beginning of something good.
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I had to respond to this, I’m a hospital corpsman currently in the middle east right now, and i just had to respond to this.
“So I don’t blame Prince Harry for his racist comment. It’s probably just the kind of language he was raised on.” If that were true, the same could be said of everyone there, regardless of ethnicity.
I work with people from every race and background thats just the nature of the american military, its very mixed, religiously and culturally, and guess what, when your in a wartime environment, you have your team, and you have the opposite team, its just the nature of the beast…..I don’t know if you have ever actually served or have been in a wartime environment….but I’m guessing the answer is no from your column. But you hear terms like Haji, Raghead, Boogerpickers, Durka Durkas, Hakmeds and so on and so forth. Not saying its right..I’m saying thats just how it is, and its been that way every war.
I’m willing to guess the French had their terms for the enemy, and I’m sure the NVA had theirs during the french-indonesian conflict.
To say “They are a country with lots of white supremacist racists.” is really just silly, it may be true, i don’t know? I work with Brits they seem like good fellows to me, but that has nothing to do with the issue your writing about, in fact they are probably some of the least offensive people here.
What Prince Harry was doing, is the same thing everyone does in the situation he’s in, you coin terms for the enemy. just the way it is, and that something every group here is guilty of, if you see it as a negative, hell my shipmate is asian american, he calls me G.I. Jew, do I take offense? Call him a racist and blame the asian community for having a long history of racism against jews? No…that would be silly, and historically inaccurate.
All I’m saying is the environment dictates the behavior, and being in a war zone changes people alot, regardless of where you come from.
Prince Harry is right!!!
Well this makes me so mad that Prince Harry has to be so different than anyone else when in the service. I do not think he owes or should say he is sorry to anyone! Does anyone else have to say their sorry? NOPE! And Does anyone of them over there say they are sorry to use for the names they call us? NOPE! Then I rest my case here! And I’m so sorry to you prince Harry for them making you say you are sorry and for all of those who felt you did something wrong. You went over there just like anyone else so now you should not be treated like any one else. my brother does not have to say he is sorry to anyone!
They are a country with lots of white supremacist racists. Not all of them, of course, but a lot of them. It makes lots of sense: colonize the entire world AND enter the 21st century without having a civil rights movement or a abolition movement..
I understand the sentiment but it sounds like you haven’t spent much time in the UK. Have you never heard of Wiliam Wilberforce? Which Jim Crow-esque laws in the UK required a civil rights movement to overcome? Sorry, but you’ve written a really uninformed post.
There are, in fact, laws and statutes that protect the individual from discrimination on grounds of race, religion, sexual orientation and just about anything else you can think of. There is an Equality and Human Rights Commission that provides resources, advice and advocacy for those with grievances.
As for Harry, it’s not the first time that he has embarrassed the royal family, nor is it likely to be the last, but I don’t think that his outburst reveals anything more than what an embarrassment he can be.
I will have to disagree about this being related to “wartime” or even has anything to do with what “they call us” or being in the service.
There is rampant racist attitudes toward what they lump as East Indians. Hello? East India Company? I’d have to say that if you’ve spent enough time in India and have seen the Brits come through there as if they still owned the land and the people, one would not dismiss this as Prince Harry being Prince Harry, an embarrassement to the hemophiliac inbreeders. Sure, he’s put his foot in his mouth many times, even a swastika on his sleeve… he is a kid. But he is also a royal. And should know better than to perpetuate the racism that’s been going on far too long.
Swastika first, racist epithet second. Perhaps we should just forgive him until he does something stupid? Or wait, didn’t that already happen?
Yes, to say that the UK has many white supremacists is a hasty generalization. Yet, considering the history of the UK, my own feelings toward their vocal racist sports fans, and the fact that they continue to make excuses for their behavior reveals that they don’t think of this as a problem.
If a nation says “it was in context” as an excuse, then they fail to see that part of the context is his own upbringing as someone who thinks that people who are not white British are lesser than he.
Oh Give this kid a break already! And who cares what the Brits think of anyone else for that matter.It seems that he really does not care if he is Royalty anyways. And so what if he is Diana’s son. That does not make him any different either than anyone else.Oh how can anyone call him a potty mouth with out sweeping their own door 1st! And if there are laws on being a racist in the UK well he was not in the UK as I know of when this video was made. Really I just do not understand how a person can be called a racist for what Harry Said. People call americans all kinds of names and they have to take it but when an American says anything back they are racist. Oh a bunch of double talkin here I can see! Harry should not have to say he is sorry for anything but he should watch that his home made movies stay at home LOL!
Dude,
Thanks for your comments!
As you correctly surmised, I’ve never been in the military. However, I am aware that people use racist terms in battle and afterwards. I’ve seen those old wartime movies, and there was lots of mention on the blogosphere about McCain and his “gook” comments. I don’t think it’s a good thing that people use these terms, and I think it’s especially bad when coming from a guy who grew up in the post- American civil rights era.
I also think we all need to remember that Prince Harry is a prince. He represents Britain. Sure, we’re holding him to a high standard, but that’s the life he was born into. He gets money, fame, and power just by being who he is, and therefore he also assumes burdens of responsibility. I don’t feel bad for holding him to a higher standard since his place in society is a privilege.
Hell, if I were a prince, can you imagine what I could do for Asian American activism and intellectualism just by opening my mouth and talking to the Globe? With that great power comes great responsibility.
You also wrote: “What Prince Harry was doing, is the same thing everyone does in the situation he’s in, you coin terms for the enemy. just the way it is, and that something every group here is guilty of, if you see it as a negative, hell my shipmate is asian american, he calls me G.I. Jew, do I take offense? Call him a racist and blame the asian community for having a long history of racism against jews? No…that would be silly, and historically inaccurate.”
First, “Jew” is not a derogatory word, so we’re really comparing two different things. Second, I noticed you use the term “enemy.” I think that’s exactly the point; Prince Harry’s Arab friend is supposed to be on the same team. As I mentioned, I’m not in the military, but I’d think that identifying an ally by a racist term can’t be good for morale.
I think we need to ask ourselves whether there’s a better way to do what we do.
Terri and others,
So here’s my view–feel free to agree or disagree.
Terri,
Thanks for mentioning Wilberforce. I knew that the Americans were the first to eliminate slavery completely, but I didn’t know about Wilberforce’s abolition movement. I stand corrected on the issue of abolition.
So here’s what I meant about British racism:
I’ve been to Britain once on vacation, and I didn’t experience any racism while there. However, one thing I have seen is that British immigrants to the U.S. don’t seem to have a problem telling me to “go back to my country.” There was a Scottish/British dude where I used to work who even started up with a black woman over racial issues. She had to tell him, “I’ve been here longer than you!” When I was in Japan, it was almost always the British guys who would make racially condescending comments about the locals. They shut up when they remembered I was in the room, but it was kind of like an “OMG, I’ll just be quiet until we’re alone with the British White folk again.” From personal experience, it happens again and again, and it’s usually among the British. It happens so often that I find it hard to accept it as a coincidence.
I’ve blogged about the topic of European racism before–see here. Now again, I ‘m not saying that all British people are racists, but when you have a stadium full of white people making monkey sounds whenever a black person gets the soccer ball, I think it’s safe to say that there’s a cultural problem.
There are good people in Britain, and I don’t doubt that there are people fighting racism. My point is that there was never a strong civil rights movement that cut deeply into people’s worldview as there was in the U.S. The idea of a stadium full of American white people making monkey noises as an insult to a black player is fortunately not something that would be likely to happen, given the effect of our civil rights movement.
This is why I’m pointing the finger at the Brits, even though it may be uncomfortable: I think this is an excellent opportunity for Harry to stand up and do something for his people. He’s got the prominence, the money, the power, and just about every other benefit imaginable in achieving something great for his country. I said I don’t blame him because it seems that it’s part of his culture. But if he wants to take steps to change the culture, he can. He’s got a whole country behind him.
(By the way, if anyone wants to come here and refute my characterization of soccer hooligans, feel free. We’ve got freedom of speech here.)
I won’t refute hooligans. The Smiths did a song about them. Buford wrote a book about them. We’ve seen shows and movies about them.
Haha…I don’t think Americans use the word “hooligan” enough. It’s such a jovial sounding word.
Jaewhan….
There’s no argument that racism exists in the UK, and you have made valid points, but I think to make assumptions, draw conclusions and suggest remedies from the limited experiences you describe does nothing to inform the debate. In the process several presumptions are made about the effects of civil rights in the US that I think if shared by the majority of Asian-Americans would actually represent a major detriment to the discourse on the Asian-American experience and it’s progress.
While it’s absolutely true that soccer hooligans chant racist slogans at soccer games, it’s also true that teams face fines for these actions, there are also prosecutions of perpetrators. The hooligans are just that, thugs that don’t represent the teams they “support” and are in fact disowned by those very teams.
By contrast, were the Chicago Cubs expected to take action against those who produced or wore the racist Fukodome t-shirts? Did they take action? Was any kind of action taken against the Cubs by baseball’s governing body? Even worse, the fans that wore the t-shirts were not a violent minority of hooligans, but average “joes”, their wives and children too – how has civil rights changed their worldview? An English soccer team might have been fined for allowing such items to be sold or displayed in the stands. Similarly, an English soccer player would be censured by his club for saying racially insensitive things about a black player the way Shaq made racially insensitive comments about Yao Ming. How was Shaq censured? Did his franchise take action against him? Furthermore, let’s not forget the sporadic array of racially insensitive and outright racist outbursts from US celebrities or the American production-line media machine’s series of derogatory Asian stereotypes. Then there’s the large minority that had no problem voting for John “I hate Gooks” McCain
Thus, the conclusion that the civil rights movement has increased the cultural/racial awareness of the American mainstream is terribly premature particularly with regards to awareness and sensitivity towards Asians. Such awareness too often seems to be lacking as the above examples suggest. Again, you have made valid points about racism in the UK, I just don’t think that some of the conclusions you have reached are accurate.
Suggesting a US style civil rights movement in the UK, is like comparing apples to oranges and again is drawing conclusions from insufficient experience or knowledge. Minorities in the UK do self-advocate and push for social equality. They do have a strong sense of their rights and are not afraid to, or prohibited from, standing up for their communities. There is a strong awareness of race problems amongst minorities, and race relations and the integration of minorities has been an important issue within the UK for several decades and it’s a dialogue in which all races are participating. In spite of the racism and an absence of a civil rights movement, minorities in the UK are, in fact, confident and empowered. That’s not to say that disenfranchisement does not exist, but if civil rights hasn’t raised the general racial sensitivity of the American public (which is really what I’m disputing), it’s nonsensical to suggest its absence as a gauge of the state of the race relations situation or racial attitudes in the UK.
I may sound like a prince harry apologist, but I’m not. I’m East Asian, lived 20 years in the UK, and lived the last 15 years in the USA. I’ve experienced racism on both sides of the pond and whilst I agree that there is a lot of racism in the UK, as something of an innocent looking into the world of Asian-American issues, I just don’t see how it can be claimed that the civil rights movement has propagated a kind of “enlightened” worldview especially toward Asians, in fact I would say that it hasn’t.
Wow. I just want to say that I think it’s awesome that there is so much back and forth up here about this issue. If I had people arguing with some of the things I saw about webhosting on my peachyhost blog (and I even try to be a little inflammatory at times) then I would be so happy. It’s great to see passion out there.
I feel like everyone who has been commenting up here has brought some really good points to the table. For me, I think that the bottom line is that this is one more instance of a high profile person making inappropriate, and, for those of us that are socially progressive, perhaps unacceptable remarks. Whether or not Prince Harry is regarded with esteem by intellectuals is besides the point – it’s frustrating that those sorts of sentiments are getting out there by readily visible people with seemingly no accountability.
I have only spent a few months in London, not enough to speak about the culture there with any sort of authority – but I would venture to say that, even as someone who was born and raised here, all my years of experience in the states wouldn’t even make me an authority on American culture. Clearly this is a bit of an oversimplification, and obviously America is much larger than Britain. This is just to say, however, that to refer to any counrty/culture/group with blanket statements is dangerous. Not necessarily wrong, but dangerous.
I sounds like, from Jaehwan’s experience, British people have tended to exhibit more racism than other white races – and that perspective, even if not representative of every person’s experience is still valid because it happened. And if there really was NO racism (which no one is actually even arguing – but I’ll throw it out there as an extreme hypothetical) then he would not be able to have those experiences and draw those conclusions. The fact that he has overwhelmingly seen unevolved attitudes from certain groups would, of course, lead him to his opinions.
I think it’s also worth pointing out that the conception of the Brits as a racist people, is not only held by Jaehwan, as I have heard it echoed many times, sometimes with historical justifications (talking about colonialism, imperialism, hell, even the white-man’s burden and manifest destiny came from Americans who were arguably still more English than American (if we use contemporary America as the American benchmark), and sometimes just from anecdotal experiences from people having traveled there.
I think that Terri also brings up some great points, I have to agree that a civil rights movement in the UK probably wouldn’t put an end to racism there, just as it hasn’t put an end to racism here… and I certainly agree with Terri that it hasn’t propagated a particularly enlightened world view towards Asians. But I also think that a civil rights movement is a step in the right direction, and, more importantly (I believe) is an important indicator of the zeitgeist of a nation. If there is a movement towards equality (or whatever you want to move towards) then at least that is an issue that is on the minds of the people there, who, really, are the only people capable of enacting that change. Like that old G.I. Joe ad, “knowing is half the battle.”
I also agree to an extent that, “to make assumptions, draw conclusions and suggest remedies from the limited experiences you describe does nothing to inform the debate,” however, I think that the opinions that have been elicited, and the discussion that has been spurred on from those assumptions and conclusions made from limited experience (which, as I have tried to argue is really all any of us can realistically bring to the table for 99.9% of issues) has been valuable, no? If this post hadn’t gotten anyone excited, then no one would have responded, and I would have learned nothing about other people’s views on the world… and I would have to stick with the meager number of experiences I’ve accumulated on my own…
And that’s what I think is so great about this. If Jaehwan threw up his post and didn’t allow reactions – then he might be as bad as Harry. But he’s engaging everyone in discussion, allowing all our views to be voiced, and, I’m sure, responding, absorbing, and processing all these ideas and opinions, adding them to the collective mass of ideas upon he bases his world on… and by being a part of that, I think we all gain.
Hey Terri and Zach,
Thanks for your comments! Zach, great observations! Terri, it’s awesome to meet someone of your background!
In terms of Asian Americans, I agree with you, Terri. 100%. We’ve never even had anything remotely close to a civil rights movement for Asian Americans. The closest we got was Frank Chin, but because the ideas were complex (media and literature representation is a hard sell), the message didn’t reach the general population. So yes, the consciousness of our issues hasn’t gone that far, which explains how Rosie O’Donnell’s racial jokes, the JV and Elvis show, and the Fukudome T-Shirts go unanswered. As someone once said, we get no respect and are the Rodney Dangerfields of race relations. The Civil Rights movement makes a difference to Asians only in certain instances, as in Japan, where Americans like to look enlightened and are afraid of being called out by other minorities. There is some sensitivity, even if it’s not specific to the Asian experience.
I will say that I don’t know what makes British society works the way it does, so any statement about how to fix Britain is just throwing around ideas. So I could be way off in terms of practical thinking, and if I am, I should be called on it. Having a taste of British racial condescension along with British racial violence (man, those guys are pretty ferocious with their fists!) here in my own country, however, I think it’s fair for me to venture the opinion that something needs to be done about it, even if I’m way off base with the solution.
(Haha…this last sentence is one which probably begs more storytelling, but I’d probably prefer to keep it off the public blog for now…)
Having a taste of British racial condescension along with British racial violence (man, those guys are pretty ferocious with their fists!) here in my own country, however, I think it’s fair for me to venture the opinion that something needs to be done about it, even if I’m way off base with the solution.
I couldn’t agree more. There’s definitely a lot of work to be done in the UK. Ironically some Brits emigrate to places like the USA, Australia and New Zealand, and even to Spain, because they want to live away from immigrants. Obviously, they carry their prejudices with them.
Anyways, thanks for an interesting discussion!
Wow…A lot good discussions be brought to the BigWoWo slaughterhouse. I like my swine deep fried, by the way. I think DUDE?! may have touched on some interesting points being that he is in the middle of all this mess we have in Iraq. However, I wouldn’t go as far as to say everyone partakes in these racist epithets as he has suggested. Not this day and age.
“I don’t know if you have ever actually served or have been in a wartime environment….but I’m guessing the answer is no from your column. But you hear terms like Haji, Raghead, Boogerpickers, Durka Durkas, Hakmeds and so on and so forth. Not saying its right..I’m saying thats just how it is, and its been that way every war.”
Judging by his condescending tone, his justification just comes off to me as a defense mechanism for the use of racially charged terminology during wartime. Yes, the US military, especially, has a deep-seeded history in using derogatory terms to incite a sense of purpose for doing what they do. They, in fact, coined many of these terms which have become slurs in our diction. But to rationalize it as being acceptable because it gives them a charge is pretty lame.
The US Military has become the most diverse military in the world. I’m no expert on military jargon, but I do believe there’s a racial and cultural awareness that’s instilled in many of these folks. When I did my four years they did. To think it’s okay to call someone a “raghead” or a “Paki” because you’re in a warzone is beyond me. We’re in a post-Vietnam, post-Civil Rights era. We’ve come a long way to get to where we’re at — even though it’s nowhere near perfect — but vindicating yourself for the use of racially motivated slurs is nothing short of an excuse to me.
I’m sure if there were more Pakistani-Brits than Anglo-Brits in Prince Harry’s unit, he would’ve thought twice about calling him one of the aforementioned terms. Being a Jewish American serviceman, I’m surprised he has forgotten and even failed to invoke the persecution of Jews during wartime. Those Nazis were racially charged to be able to do what they did in WW2. Lessons have been learned through history and I’m positive no commanding officer in his right mind in any unit, battalion, or command would condone that kind of language under his watch.
I like what minoritymilitant said.
Thanks, MM! I agree, and it’s good to hear from someone else who has been in the field. I just think that if there are racial problems, it makes sense to deal with them whenever we can. After all, even though these guys are military, they’re going to have to re-join society at some point. And even if they choose not to, they still have to answer to civilian society. As Clemenceau said, war is too important to be left to the generals.