Wow. I’ve got tons of respect for you because it’s clear that you live what you preach when it comes to the gender issue.

So he got the ring from your parents? That’s another big wow. Lots of guys around the world must be envious.

Haha:

I think tradition gets maligned a lot. I’m not saying that it’s right for everyone, but I know many powerful women (we’re talking owners of companies) who won’t ask out a guy because they feel they deserve to be asked out, and that’s how it’s traditionally done.

Chivalry and gender roles may be different, but the basis of your original argument, if I’m understanding correctly, is that these gender roles in chivalry are based on a male’s thinking that a woman can’t handle opening doors. If we extend the gender difference argument, maybe it means he feels she can’t handle asking men out.

My point was that in most cases (Akrypti’s excepted) that there are gender roles that we conform to, and that they may not be as insulting as some may think. In fact, most people probably live with them.

Point there is yes, I would absolutely encourage a woman to ask out a man if she expressed a romantic interest in that man.

I also agree with haha’s last comment – who asks who out doesn’t have anything to do with chivalry unless the asker or askee MAKES it into an issue of chivalry, like if a man is insistent that he ALWAYS is the one that asks the woman out because “that’s how it’s supposed to be” or a woman is insistent that she NEVER asks a man out because “HE is supposed to do it.” So yeah, unless people make it into an issue, it’s a non-issue.

In any case, the core issue remains to be treating the status of a woman as less than a man’s or in a position that is far removed and thus not equivalent to a man’s. Just because people’s views of gender roles are different shouldn’t justify the continued existence of an archaic ‘code’ that pushes forth the ideals I just stated. Or do you think that it is justified? If that’s the case, maybe Western men are correct in saying that Western women have lost what it means to be a ‘woman’. Further, is that indeed the society you want to live in?

Let’s turn it around, and I’d be interested in hearing Akrypti’s take on this too:

Let’s say you know a single guy. He stays at home and mopes around, but confides that he has a crush on a girl. You’d probably say, “Well, ask her out, man!” without even thinking.

Would you say the same thing to a woman?

I think for most people the societal expectations are different. I’m not saying that you’re wrong to say that you believe in total sameness–I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that view–but I also think most people behave a bit differently towards different genders. Chivalry is one part of that.

By the way, check out the #1 comment here. What does it say to you about societal expectations?

And because that’s essentially what is still happening any “evolution” that occurs is no longer chivalry OR is just an update of the methods in concurrence with the times.

If a man opens a door for a woman because he wants to observe codes of chivalry, then lurking somewhere in the back of his subconscious is a belief that men and women are very different creatures, so different that one universal rule cannot possibly apply to both sexes evenly. That is not the kind of man I would want to be with.

Now if a man opens a door for a woman because the woman has her arms full or he got to the door first or he loves that woman and wants to make life as easy as possible for just that one particular woman, then the act isn’t coming out of any sense of chivalry at all, but a specific sense of courtesy, or respect, or love. And this applies universally to both sexes. If the man I was with had his arms full or I got to the door first, I’d open the door for him and he smiles and tips his head at me to say, “Thanks.” In this instance, there *is* gender equality.

So I agree with a few of the previous commenters — it is all a matter of intent.

Podcast topic?

I don’t think I said hello to you…so…hello! Glad you’re here.

The goal of the blog isn’t to fight or tear down others, though it happens every so often since internet communication is anonymous and lacks nonverbal cues. It even happens with well meaning people. Actually, I was hoping that this blog could turn people into activists, or maybe serve as a support for activism. See here. Ultimately, the goal is to stay on the web but also to progress beyond the web, so that we really can bridge differences.

bigWOWO is actually going to have a teleconference next week with W (the author of this article), Larry, and others. If you’re interested, let me know, and I’ll try to get you dialed in. My e-mail is naruguard-44 at yahoo.